and i mean, just to say, we're not going to compete, have our own back scene. it makes kind of companies uncomfortable when we tell them it's, we're working on our own back, seem to say what we decided was to support companies which every company came to us for assistance, helping them with assays with animal studies, with clinical trials, with regulatory pathways, anything that we needed to do in order to advance a vaccine as quickly as possible. so in a sense, if the world wins that i.b.i. wins, and that was our strategy, that being advocates of free market, big pharmaceutical companies will say it and your, or your a strategy failed it is pfizer astra zeneca, those big multinationals that create the vaccines no, into your a un mandated vaccine institute. so actually, you know, our vaccines institute is, is funded really by, you know, the governments of korea, sweden, india, and finland and the gates foundation. the welcome trust. and our goal is really to get vaccines over the finish line. i mean,

we don't think about it that vaccine is being our vaccine. our oral color vaccine, is given to companies to make without any benefit i.b.i., our goal is to impact global health. and. and if we can do that in any way possible, then we've accomplished our mission. well, you mention the gates foundation. their research suggests that global cova debts will double of high income countries by up to the 1st 2000000 doses of any successful vaccine. do you agree with so that's a great study and we've been using it to advocate for something called codex. the kovacs cicely's is an organization under the leadership of the world health organization seti and gavi $192.00 countries signed on to get 2000000000 doses of vaccine w.h.o. approved exene by the end of 2021. and it will be given to the countries that are part of the facility, not how can 192 of them roughly 20 percent of their needs for now. and that's actually really important because it's never been the case before that innovative

vaccine technology has made its way from the laboratory, through the clinic, through a big multinational corporation or a chinese company or an indian company. and then out into global health it at roughly the same time that it's available in the united states, u.k. and europe. so in a sense, kovacs is a victory for those people who believe in multilateralism in transparency, you know, unfortunately there are 2 big standouts from kovacs. it's the united states and this and russia. unfortunately, they should join. well, it's interesting that neither of those 2 countries do, and both of those countries obviously have those vaccines. but if you know nothing about vaccines, not as much as you do and you're sitting here watching this, and you're looking at this rocketing share prices of for profit pharmaceutical companies. and the same time, you see that the richest countries in the, well, the buying hundreds of millions of doses of these vaccines specially in the context of that gates research. i don't have any worry that what you're doing isn't going

to be enough to stop all the successful vaccines being taken by the rich of us as the poor. so i think that that's a very interesting analysis. and if you look at the total number of doses that the high income countries, but also india and brazil have purchased, it's about 8800000000 doses are in excess of what they need. so what you, when you really look at it, there are a number of contracts and there are preorders contingent orders. so how that will play out in the end? we're not sure. but the more important point i think here is that kodak's intends to purchase $2000000000.00 doses, and those doses will be provided to everyone and what cannot paper the gates foundation paper you quoted says, is that if the 1st $2000000.00 doses are taken without any consideration of equity, then there will be a doubling of go global covert deaths, hence the reason why go back needs to be successful, needs to be fully funded, needs to be funded beyond the 1st year into the 2nd year. i mean, this is the,

the benefit of working together. i mean, i think the u.n. secretary general says that no one safe until everyone safe. and that's exactly the premise of cocoa and endless. oh, of course people every day, heat of a lot of things that turn you could share is we saying that one global season. but the rich countries presumably can say to you, ok, we understand that where as strong is the most vulnerable. but actually it's the rich countries that i mean hit hardest just proportionally i was speaking to you from a country with 70000 excess deaths since covent was 1st detected. you know, it's, and it's been an interesting and very sad thing to watch. but i think you have to route, remember that, you know, brazil and india are necessarily the wealthiest countries and they actually have a significant death toll. there are story number of infections and a significant number of deaths as well. you know, i think the one thing that kobe teaches us is this, that this virus,

like all viruses, will find those weak points in our defense. and we really need and should be working together in this global pandemic to help each other. whether it's, you know, masks and gloves, whether it's a vaccine solution, whether it's, you know, reaching out to countries to help them understand what the burden of covert is. and once we have the vaccine, it's taking that vaccine from wherever it's manufactured, to wherever it can be, wherever it's needed, in a way that will reduce the global burden of code. that is the most important thing . and you know, if we can pitch together to do this, if we can convince the united states russia, i mean, the other countries that have already started to find the kovacs mechanism to work together. maybe we can make this happen and it would be an amazing, it would be really like the time the us. and then the soviet union got together and decided they were going to eliminate smallpox and they did. the 1st viral disease

eliminated through international cooperation. we really do need to emphasize the benefit in a global pandemic of working together. and yes, you know, the operation works. beef funded companies, seppi funded companies have done very well. remember seppi funded modern so this is the coalition for epidemic prepared sinéad to switch. and yet the share prices going up for private shareholders, let alone the hedge funds that have invested it in medan, i don't, it provides an eye on the context for of us in countries affected by previous coronaviruses. why is it that when there was this push for a coded 19 vaccine, we got to say mainly within months. and yet, when we had, when we had previous coronaviruses research funding, dried up, which presumably might have made this vaccine, the reserves a much quicker this to happen. so i'm not sure, you know, every,

every new pathogen requires a new vaccine development effort and all the vaccines are different. i think, with co, that we benefited actually from the ebola crisis. so during the bowler crisis, it proceeded exactly as you'd expect. there was, you know, an outbreak people got very worried, television cameras zoomed in on the problem and in west africa, governments, you know, president obama called up, you know, the heads of the companies and said, hey, can you help us? they, they did, they dropped everything they got, you know, so things started and all of a sudden the pandemic started to wave, which is typical, you know, by the time we get all geared up to make a vaccine, the epidemic, if it's on the wane and itself out unlike ok, i read about it and, but, you know, luckily, merck, which is one of the big pharmaceutical companies, actually succeeded in testing a vaccine during the outbreak. and that vaccine was remarkably effective. and now other companies have done so as well on again,

so in bhola work. but what everyone realised was that this is not the way to handle a pandemic. so they got together and they found it seppi the coalition for epidemic preparedness innovations which dedicates itself to making vaccines for operate diseases. so within 2 weeks of the 8, you know, announcement of the sequence for corona virus or a novel coronavirus not covert. 19 seppi have started funding companies like moderna like a no vo like cure back to start vaccine, manufacturing, start vaccine research and development. and so by you know, the middle of march, we actually had a vaccine in a human being. so the world learned from the lesson of a bowl, a lesson that it hadn't learned during previous outbreaks. and, you know, this again is the benefit of multilateralism. the $1400000000.00 that set be put into this really help to jumpstart research and development. i should just say, you know, i should just say the british health minister maggie cook said madonna wasn't

selling vaccines overseas and was keeping it within the united states. this is disputed then when the european union vote on it and 60000000 doses. now the u.k. has bought 5000000 sense, but as far as you are seeing it, these vaccines are being equally shed out amongst the world's most medias populations. so i don't, i don't actually, you know, at this point, you know, we have 3 vaccines that have been effective for, i think, 2 months, highly effective. you know, all of them are over 90 percent efficacious. their efficacy is over 90 percent. they appear to be safe again with 2 months worth of data. so are these, the vaccines that will be effective for 6 months in 12 months? we hope so, but do we know that? no, we don't. i mean, when you're, we're thinking about these axioms. it's very exciting, it's an important proof of concept for our navy accedes, and for vaccines for covert 19. and it holds out hope that a vaccine solution will be available, actually fairly shortly. for some, you know, it's there not very many doses yet. there nothing like

a 16000000000 doses that we need means that the zone estimate is that, you know, given current, global capacity for vaccine manufacturing, it may be 2024 before there's enough that seem to vaccinate all the people who need to be vaccinated. i think, you know, we hope that with adequate funding, kovacs a silly he and other multilateral efforts will be able to encourage production and distribute vaccine at low or no cost just very briefly. and i know that you say that moscow airing and social distancing will need to continue. nevertheless, despite all this news, just very briefly, that's not bad enough. coronavirus just tell me what the prospect of, and the microbial resistance may be in developing and developed countries. i understand it can make coronavirus look like nothing. yes, that's, you know, agile microbial resistance is looming. and it comes from, you know, poor use of antibiotics. the use of antibiotics in animal feed. there are lots of

different reasons why antibiotic resistance is increasing. it could be 10000000 deaths a year by 2050 and 100 trillion dollars in cost to the economy. we need to start developing new antibiotics. we need to start encouraging good stewardship of antibiotics, good use of antibiotics. and there are, you know, we also know that for certain diseases, if we develop vaccines, we can use them against antibiotic resistant microorganism. so, it's a combined approach. and you know, for instance, the united kingdom has a large program, the fleming find, which is dedicated to try and understand and help other countries around the world understand what the potential threat from anti micro resistance is. and another group of organizations. the welcome trust the gates foundation and founded card decks, which is designed to help companies, especially small companies, develop vaccines solutions for anti microbial resistant organisms. so yes, absolutely. we need to start planning and we need to thwart something before it

becomes such a large problem that you know, we're going to have to dig ourselves out of another huge hole, dr. jerome kemp. thank you. great. after the break, mental health issues proving more deadly as a result of the current pandemic than coronavirus itself. we also have a mental health about a year that's tested, the psychology of humanity going underground.

it's been decades since the fall of spain's fascist regime, but old wounds still haven't healed or in the past at the 6 mean older than just the same question which we know from their mothers and given away and forced adoption to this day mothers still search for grown children for their parents.

leg length. welcome back. suicide rates and depression in the u.k. have been steadily rising in certain age groups in recent years. now the u.k. center for mental health charity predicts that up to 10000000,

people in england alone will need new or additional mental health support. as a direct consequence of the current i spend democrat and you want to stand by the issues in this next interview in britain who contact the n.g.o.s have been no, but i'm joined now by the center for health in, you know, sarah hughes, who's here in london sarah, thanks so much have coming on the x. un robin taffeta boston already said that the bank bailout austerity since 2008 of the cameron and may governments created and broader demand for mental health services. what's been the effect of coronavirus? i think it's fair to say that the mental health of the nation is incredibly vulnerable. you know, they look down, it creates a huge isolation. children are not going to school families in how long periods of time and employment has become incredibly vulnerable. access to services changed so people couldn't get a usual kind of supports and community connections as they might have done. so i think people have really struggled to make sense of what's happened and that will

inevitably continue. tell me what you wrote to health secretary here in britain, matt hancock. well, so we've been talking to the government for some time about, you know, how can we both mitigate some of the issues that are emerging in response to the pandemic. but also i think about investment that we need now and ask her of the government is really to make sure that mental health issues aren't sized as we go forwards. we've previously our space, i think a summer for them to consider a cross government approach. so that, you know, we're not just talking about health, we're talking about social care, how seeing welfare. so we've asked to do that. and now we're asking them to prioritize the mental health of the nation. so i've joined 18 of the chief executives to make that, asking the pandemic in the 1st wave was, you know, a crisis, you know, this is

a natural disaster. and so the response was very much about how do we contain the virus as it was around the world. and so, mental health services, while we saw, needs and increase, we didn't see demand increases. that was because people didn't feel comfortable using their usual rates to access services, so i refer as went down and so on. but that didn't mean to say that people were not experiencing mental distress. many people can recognize that there will be an impact on mental health services, but your model apparently shows that in england, possibly 20 percent. i mean, who will suffer from mental health issues because of the pandemic? how did you arrive at that kind of figure? so we are a reset your organization and we have a licensed research that taken all of the world. we used historical data at data that we know exists in relation to specific conditions. so for instance,

we know that if you are somebody who has experienced intensive care because of the virus, you're more likely to experience post-traumatic stress disorder. so as a result, you know that, you know, 10000 people have been in intensive care. you're able to multiple, at the number of people who they feel might need at mental health support. as a result of that, you know, counting every single passenger tencent. have well, well, yes you, i mean you, you, rich, you would take a proportion of those people who are winning tens of k. at the portion of those will inevitably experience a traumatic response to that scenario. now, yeah, i'm sure you know about the controller see how over the procurement of services during his coronavirus pandemic. in particular, mental health, pre-k. ormont, presuming the government will say to you, great, it's a bonanza, then for private psychiatry and private mental health providers. that's what coronavirus has catalyzed and i think that that commissioning of services is

a really complex area for health policy in the u.k. we have and mixed economy. and so, you know, private providers come forward and often can make the best business case to get 0 or a kind of particular process. what we're discovering now, and hence the kind of approach we want to take forward is very much working with local communities. local provider has said that we can ensure there is a much more equitable approach. but of course, private organizations will still have some role in how services are delivered that we, we are trying to address the balance. i mean, are you really that out of the main role in public health, england's being abolished anyway? i mean, what would you, what do you expect to happen? you know, that simon stevens used to, he's the boss of the n.h.s. . see him when he was a big director of a united health group. it by so many different scandals who isn't going to be an ideological approach to mental health care. i don't think that there is an

ideological approach. i think what we're trying to do is really think about mental health in the context of people's lives. where they add reproach. spencer is very much about equality in mental health, really making sure that people have the best chance at the earliest opportunity. and so that sounds mean working closely with all government policies to make sure that their policies are really cute swards. giving people the best chance. and so that includes focusing on education communities, not just health because of course, you know, health care is only a small part of people's lives. it's their families, it's, they were places, it's the faith groups that we really need to think about is as part of this mental health landscape. is there a bit of a conflict here? santa correlates inequality went mental health issues and the need for and quality as regards mental health and the gold rush for private psychiatry, environmental health services and their conflict. well, i mean,

certainly we engage in sort of, you know, we don't deliver services as an organization real stepping back for more of them. you know, he's out decision that we do need to mixed economy in terms of service delivery. within that, you're quite right to say there are many conflicts that exists to try and resolve the issue because it's your mental health, which is why we're trying to surface them really. and that includes the things, as you described, commission, it includes the way we use data. it includes the way we make decisions at like level. so i think it's a complex picture, but there are many conflicts that we have to disentangle, to make sense of it. i mean, he wouldn't blame a highly conservative party. they all believe in meritocracy, which requires inequality. and yet your center is producing reports showing a correlation between the inequality and mental health. what a handsome patch is going on it. the truth of it is,

is that mental health is it is in some instances, not all a direct response to inequality, deprivation and social determinants. and so we need, you know, very much want to work. people government surrounds having a much more critical courage to policy in decision making. but that's not going to happen the night is. so we can't say we would say it's more, right. and it's parts that you need to take down all of your private contracts. then we know that our service landscape, which would fall apart really because we've built on a mixed economy. and so it's a really shift that is going to take some time. but there is an appetite for it, there is an appetite to develop services our local level. so i think we're working together on a, on a strategy that is probably going to take a decade to see through in the very least. and given these connections are there in

the coronavirus, are disproportionately affects the socio economically vulnerable you expect then the mental health issues to increase as people lose their jobs and so on. yes, i'm afraid that's the case. and this is a global phenomenon. you know, where when the recession happens, you know, we absolutely sorting creasing suicide's around the world. and so, you know, we know that we have not seen it increase in suicides so far. and that's been, you know, in response to a number of initiatives that have been going on the new case some time. but we also know that some of the biggest consequences are yet to come. and i mean, there are so many issues the prison service and let alone, i mean you, your center has produced reports talking about racism the ages tonight, the logical elements of mental health issues. i mean, has his in so many other mental health issues actually potentially going to be

worse than the issue of coronavirus per se? i think that's a really good question. and i think that we are asking that question all around the world right now. i think this is an issue that we're going to have to tackle because the impact of the pandemic has been. so across the world and all of us are, you know, we're all in the same ration and whilst we're not in this. so i think we can really try and think about how the pandemic have an impact or grammars from ripple, what the long time mental health impacts will be. but we've really got trying to stand that. basically, this is long term that some of the mental health, you know, implications may not be felt for some time. and so we've got to maintain vigilance for the foreseeable future. i think it's a serious issue. and one that every leader around the world must attend to. and how can we trust the data? i mean suicide statistics show that has been a trend down from 2011. why,

how do you assess the current suicide risk aaron? in britain we haven't done anything on the figures, it has since coronavirus, but they in the past year as well. i mean, i think we have got great so that we haven't experienced an increasing serious saeed's this year. so and comparatively, to last year. so we have to look back, dates are in and colleagues have released that in the last few weeks. and as i say that we know that the economic impact may not be felt deeply for at least another year, although it's already significance. so, you know, it's too early to say what the impact on syria's side will be, and, you know, we've done a huge amount work, communicate secret back data. so i think it's, it's robust, but of course time will have and the effect on president and, you know, i think she again, you know, you raise another really important point. you know,

prisons in the u.k. you are on depression like most public services. and there are huge plans to price, you know, ensure that people are divestiture in custody and rehabilitation support while they are in custody. so things are happening and i'm not underestimating the scale of the challenge because there is he here, each amounts of inequality in prisons that we need to tackle. quite sorry, he's thank you. that's in the show where we back on wednesday when you catch on celebrities. and i cause you to announce the state of british finances after the u.k. bars. johnson government announced a 16000000000 pound increase in military spending during a global pandemic until then join the underground by following us a huge internet facebook instagram a time when

i was still seems wrong. just don't call me yet to see how it does the attic. and in again, trying to close the trail when something find themselves worlds apart, just on the common ground

world is driven by shaped by the day things we dare to ask with nothing really settled, some of trump's enemies want the president and his supporters to be a price for the past 4 years and good skin rumors of war as trump tries to bring troops home, some say instead of want to start

a war or yours will pull you out of the mouth of the sea. and what about and i didn't do it will always be the good, is it that's the only house home to keep it or don't or don't let you. people come up to you. good on them. have that dam on the money. there's a number of those who want to know, but only a bit of us dies of them there. jonathan martin about it and it is about

russia, slums, america's decision to pull out of the open sky stream. tiki's in the us of being in the past. merely put on the pretense of being committed that allies have criticised the move it scalds nerve agents, much traveling to secretly expose the regime in new york times. they just moscow correspondent vacancy comparisons with spy fiction and exposes the paper's predetermine narrative on russia who saw a texan with a red muscle disease comes to russia to treat.