hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered on peter lavelle as interesting ministration comes to an end. well, those who dreamed up an executed the russia gate hoax ever be held accountable. will the media ever be held accountable for the role they played? and should we now assume the deep state is truly above the law? to discuss this and more,, i'm joined by my guest jim jeffries from washington. he's a retired u.s., diplomat and former advisor to the us republican,

senate leadership and raleigh. we have ray mcgovern. he is a former cia analyst who led the cia's soviet desk. and ohio, we have reprocessed to all or avoid beric. he is a professor emeritus of bowling green state university in ohio, as well as author of russia gate and propaganda or a gentleman crossed operates out of that. that means you can jump in anytime you want, and i always appreciate it. ok, let's go to ray in raleigh. and i asked, i guess rhetorical questions in the, in my introduction here, we have the jury report still to be released, but we're in the, the last days of this, of this administration. and there's very little interest in it. what we're interested in it, but it's not getting much public focus because obviously other things are in play. do you, will we ever find out really the origins of this and will people ever be held accountable because they, they basically took capture of a entire administration and they are unapologetic about it. go ahead.

well as far as publishing is concerned, unnamed, mainstream media, russia gate is too big to fail. it's like those banks in 20082009. as too many people committed to this legend. and so the mainstream media is not going to admit it. now, the only chance that many of us saw over the last couple of months was that president trump as he exited since he had pretty much nothing to lose. would order that the well as he did sort of order didn't matter. he said, release everything, release everything, no retraction. i mean hello. and then 2 days later, it became clear that he didn't really issue an order for that. and so it looks very, very clear that not even trump and in his less days, well let's put it this way. he looks like

a pitiable giant of the kind that nixon coined direct praised it on able to work his will on his subordinates 1st and foremost the head of the n.s.a. . and i'll just close by saying the head of his say has all the information anyone would ever want to know if should know about oldest, it's all recorded, it's all retrievable. and yet the acting defense secretary has now been instructed by trump to order paula, a sone, the general in charge of the n.s.a. release that information. so this, the deep state personified, you have recalcitrant people and i would just add that joe biden is one of them. i mean, he was not an agent there, and if nims jimena, it was involved and he approved the persecution of flynn and the attempt to intimidate the president elect said 2 days later, though, you know,

it said it's very clear that biden it is one of the people who's involved here, and so i expect not too much in the way of disclosure. you know, i mean, jim, we also have the head of the cia in a house building. completely unwilling to release relevant documents about this year. i guess maybe kind of jumping to the very conclusion of this because i think we're all like minded here in shows that deep state can win. and that's a very, very dangerous thing for the in, for any president going into office now, is this you cannot challenge the inter agency consensus as they like to say go ahead jim. i, yes, peter, i mean i guess as a, as a diehard optimist. i hope there's possibly some oil a truck can pull this out, but i don't think that's very likely at this point. and assuming that by the ministration does take power, which is the odds on favorite this point, i think will be no looking back at the interregnum is over. the hiatus is over.

they had the fear that was sent into the system that some great orange disruptor was going to actually be of the commander in chief. and as an article 2 says, the executive branch of government, not the interagency consensus, which is mentioned nowhere in the constitution that would be over. i mean, as far as his releasing documents, that's right up there with his giving orders to get out of afghanistan or iraq or syria. donald trump never had an effect of control of the executive branch of government. and that hardly is due to his own really horrible appointees that he put had now. and he, if he had understood what he was doing from day one, you would realize he was behind the lines of enemy occupied territory. it was what put together a team of people that knew how. 6 to get the job done, to make sure his orders would be followed resident, resorting to tweets all the time about what his subordinates ought to do, that he could simply order them to do if he had people that would actually follow

his shorter. so i think not only what were none of these people responsible for russia gave rise again, whatever you want to call it ukraine gate. everybody called to account. for quite the contrary. i think we're going to see this. what if there's robert reich accountability project? truth, commission blacklists, where anybody now targeted by what i think will be a new shock to tele here, and order with the merits of being the only permissible exchange of information and much more censorship on social media and so forth. i think we're going to see something that's unprecedented and certainly in american history that, that none of us should be looking for to matter what are all of the military in the media's role, they've acquitted themselves so badly here. i mean, because there, there are accomplices to all of this. i mean, over the years on this program, all of us have talked about real evidence of wrongdoing by individuals in the

intelligence community in the d.o.j. in the f.b.i. . some people lost their jobs, though it may not be directly to that. what about the issue of russia gated cell? i mean a lack of candor and things like that. they were used to run, but i mean the media, i think they're, they're, they basically surrendered to this, this narrative and they, and now they become willing of the national security state. i mean, i'm looking at all of our faces right now, but it wasn't always that way ahead on our it may not always be in that way. that the history of mainstream media in practically any country of the world has won the mainly of collusion with authority. and in particular, with the, with the deep states of all of the major nations or the united states is actually not particularly exceptional. in, in this respect,

a trunk was a wonderful gift to the media from an economic point of view. because the media as a whole was, was flailing very badly as a result of its internal economic crisis. and here came along this incredibly interesting, intriguing clown like figure who is never going to be a savior from, from the, from the deep state. because he doesn't believe in anything other than his own self-interest and the interests of all of his family and everything else is just incredibly, if our moral will trump, trump was never a convincing savior in the 2016 election, he did have one good idea and a good idea was, it doesn't make sense to actually be friendly with russia and doesn't that make even better sense because it prevents the possibility of

a more unified front between russia and china against u.s. interests around the world. that was actually quite sensible. trump didn't have the degree of conviction, it was necessary for him to follow through on one good thought that he had during his campaign. well, her image not, you know, this to rain right now. i don't, i don't think any of us will argue that, you know, donald trump, things are very highly of themself. ok, obviously here, but i mean, if you, if you want to call himself asian, we've got a brain. oh, the to selfishness is in the media and the deep state itself because they, they have damage the perception people have of these institutions here. i mean, hardly, you know, the cable t.v. the, the, the faith that people have been that now is a, is a miniscule now, because of all of this year. because as we've said on this program, many, many times following this, every step of the way, i mean, when you, when you, when you look at, you know, where is the evidence of election fraud?

well, there's nothing here to see. and then we say, well, what about, what about this f.b.i. saying this and writing this down and, and eccentrics after they say there's nothing to see here. i mean, they have damaged themselves here because they're not believable anymore. and you can't have a functioning democracy. if people don't believe the media, the media are supposed to be on your side, not there. well, the media is the cornerstone of course. you know, i speak of not only n.y.c. the military industrial complex, but the military, industrial, congressional intelligence media, academia, think tank complex, making matt rhymes with mickey mouse. now why do i say media? because without the media being captivated, they could make it work is an example. we know now that the russians found out that hillary clinton on the 26th of july 2016 said, blame the russians,

blame the russians, blame the russians for hacking, blame the russians for everything. ok, that same day they noted judy miller chair, in the new york times. david sanger had an article, same day, russia, russia, russia, russia. so they were both, both fed from the same trough and, and the russians were simply repeating what was obvious to everyone. and which, by the way, julian has signed himself, had said namely that this was a big distraction from day, from the e-mails showing that hillary had really stolen the nomination from bernie sanders. and after the election, of course, it was an excuse to explain why hillary lost and not incidentally to make sure that the mickey matt had a really potent enemy to build their arms shell. their arms justify the military

pick francis, which are unconscionable in our society. you know, james, the interesting thing too is that there was this, this demand by the powers that be particularly than deep state, is that it turns, you know, trump with threatened to change direction or nuance things. i mean, wow, he's the president of the united states. but they drew the line and said the president will not be able to do this and invented a hoax against him. that lives to this day. i mean, we have the, the incoming designated secretary of state. i mean, he was a big russia gator ok. and these people are going to be refunded center again. go ahead, james. exactly right. and i think when right talks about the making matters, i call the no man political or are they are now firmly in the saddle. and i think we have crossed the rubicon here that there will be no challenge this in the future that with the theft of this election, i think it was a normal politics just now. and it just the republican as upright laid been

breaking down for decades is now finally gone. there will never be and normal national election in the united states. again, these people will not let go. how are now that they have that fully integrated? and if you look at biden's team, i mean, you know, these are a pretty package warmongers that make mike on pay a look like gandhi. i mean, a lot of that, this is this, you know, i think we're going to see now is the word fair. state and it's narrative and will only aim to trickle down, but we're going to go to the heart break. and after that hard break, we'll continue. our discussion will be a conclusion to russia. get state with r.t. . then what by recommending what i want to put yours will put you out of a bit of it in the mountains and what about and i

it will always be the good. is it also home of the able to keep it or don't or don't let you people come up with you through you can see them on the map of the game and the minimum time because i'm not bad with the internet, but oh, november creative i say give them their genitals. what about nanami? i get is about the

welcome back to cross talk. we're all things are considered really well. we're discussing whether russia gate will ever be completely exposed. ok, let's go back to jim in washington to bring to the break. you were making a point please. going to show yes, i think that we're going to see this integrated warfare state. so fooling control

now and the narrative supporting it. being the only one that is permitted. anything else will be conspiracy theory if they can, it was increasingly subject to censorship. that when we start getting a one of the 1st things i expect, by the way, is to revive the war in syria and be a regime change operation, syria. i guess we can start setting our watches, waking, the next us arsenal gas attack or whatever it is. i think the pressure against russia will step up exponentially and, and the narrative will shift will be, will be christiane amanpour for one. why and to be other telling us how dastardly all these countries are, why the united states must act. and if anybody questions that it will simply not be heard by the vast majority of people. and i think this is bifurcation, our society and the marginalization of dissenting views is going to be a permanent feature, not a one to jump in. this one to mention something about syria. why are we in syria? i know we're in syria, but i know for israel most let's face it. the israelis have admitted that their

interest in the outcome in syria is that there be no outcome that they be chaos that their potential perpetual warfare in syria. so that no sunni or shia can prevail and threaten israel. they've said that that's been their york times. look at the lead article, september 6th, 2013. they told the new york times said, your jerusalem correspondent, the preferred outcome is no outcome. as long as this bloodletting between shia and sunni quote, we have nothing to fear from syria. that's why we're in syria and the 1st the, the time krishna recognize that. we need to tell the american people, this is not our fight. and when are going to send any more us soldiers or even people who will fight for us to mess around the syria,

just because israel wants chaos there. you know, all of her happy. i think all this we can win to agree here. i mean it's, i can understand the way the deep state acts and because they protect themselves. ok. i mean, even the impotent f.b.i. director. mean he's protecting the f.b.i. . i mean, it's so pathetic. i think the attorney general has done better, but that's not his wheelhouse necessarily here, but i am very intimately is the media here and i find it really quite. and i agree with your 1st answer that the media as they tend to kowtow to the powers that be when i mean, there are a lot of people that are very interested in this story here and it, it, and i think they're smarter group of people to be honest with the ok and we, we make compelling arguments because we actually make arguments. ok. because the other side just says, oh, that's just the conspiracy theory. but they're the ones that have been peddling a conspiracy theory. and this is the oddity of it all. and i,

and i'm not going to personally say people are liars, but it seems very convenient to go along with is when this narrative, i mean these people in media your paper, well they get access because now media is not about journalism, it's about celebrity, i mean, it really works very well for them, and particularly in reporting on the national security state, they tend to be more stenographers than anything else. i mean, they're out there is investigative journalism out there. but for the national security state, you just, they feed you when you just write it ok. that is a pretty clean and that's very dangerous. jim is already said here he questions the outcome of the election. people are more and more questioning these things here, and that's not very healthy for a person science. and i'm really afraid we're all going to be balkanized. go ahead . i think we talked about russia gate as being an extraordinary episode of public destruction in which the media was a prime player,

russia gate to structure this and many, many things including the corruption of the d.n.c. and it distracted us from the road doc, money and us elections, a destructive us from everything that is very wrong with the election with this 2 pocket dominant electoral system that we have. and amongst other things, very sadly, it distracted us from the reality for russia and the reality of china. and anyone who's visited cities recently and such like moscow or st. petersburg of beijing or shanghai, they will know these are incredibly vibrant places that the world is changing. we have examples of extraordinarily effective political leadership in these countries, the likes of which we have not seen here for several decades. this is the reality doesn't media, the us media office, kate, they,

they have robbed 99.9 percent of the american population from understanding anything real about these 2, these 2, not just these 2 countries about many countries, but in this context is a particularly important. the fact that we know nothing from the media about russia or about china, you know, who are a, one of the things that we've seen a dramatic shift i would say over the last few years is that the neo cons have been able to capture both parties now in this is really, this is an amazing and they've captured the media as well. i mean, when i was growing up, ok, i agree that c.n.n. and table didn't exist, but you didn't have, you know, you know, former directors of intelligence as a contributor to a television like on a.b.c. or n.b.c. or c.b.s. . and now, i mean, i just have to wonder if you know when, when clapper is doing his contribution, i think it's over m m s, n b c. i mean,

is he camera briefing? and then he tells his producer to tell the presenter to ask me a question. i mean, it's just all circular, ok? it's completely circular, like how we got into iraq year. i mean, and all over is absolutely right. i mean, having lived outside of the united states for 22 years living most of my life outside of the united states, the world is a very different place than the media in the u.s. to trace it. well, peter, you mentioned james clapper. while national intelligence director, famous for among other things, shame that you know, the russian, we know from experience that the russians are, are almost should medically driven to be to co-opt, to penetrate, to do all kinds of almost chenault tickly driven. my god, that's racism. that's the kind of thing that hillary used. i mean the russians are samus, the jews pushing and the russians have been demonized as is happening now for

the chinese and us media. what they don't seem to understand is what the old so is used to call the correlation of forces, correlation of forces or shifted cake. now is russia and china against the united states. partly because of the mistakes the united states has made. but there's a virtual military alliance between the 2 chain recently said, you know, we don't have to have a treaty, a defense treaty. we're so close. now though, we're at that point. well, let me add something. that means if some of our air force worriers side to dust up things in the ballot, blackshear up in the north of europe, then there's going to be trouble in the south china sea, mark my words, and the us can't afford this kind of thing. so the earlier that tony blinken and the rest of the stuff i'm reminded of the old nursery rhyme,

we can blink and nod as long as blink. and those are not too much angle, which is the reality. then we have a chance, but right now it doesn't look like even knows about the reality. he said following the old clinton deal. kerry drumbeat of demonizing both russia and china in a racial kind of way. and that's beyond the pale because that's part of fascism. you know, canuck engine, jim. i remember out of the moeller report was released on the new york times, had some kind of a bed. and i just a, just, i didn't know who to laugh or cry, but they were saying, maybe print president, try to trump should be, consider a new strategy with russia, considering how close russia and china have become. and i just thought you all of us on this program have been saying this for years. i mean, you're gay, you're creating this, you created this alliance. you, everyone should remember, we remember that it went on when president who came to power. he and he,

and overtures to the west, asking for a new architecture of security in europe, repeatedly asking it, and then went after every single time these firms every single time. well, the correlation of forces, as we just heard shifted and there could be, and that horses left the barn and they don't still understand that because i'll tell you the russian political elite simply doesn't trust the americans anymore. what is the term agreement incapable? jim, having painted it dystopian future, we can expect here domestically. i don't think people realize how, how terrifyingly dangerous what we're embarking on now on the international scene. and these people, you know, we keep hearing about. and i think ray's right, the international situation has changed. people been saying, well, multiple larry is a reality. unfortunately, they have no medical authority, m.b.a. period capitol here had not got the memo. and that their arrogance is so should

create and their attitude toward other countries that they can only exist as american satellites is so strong. they will keep pressing not only against russia and china, but against iran and venezuela, and whoever else. and north korea and you know, something's gotta give it some point peter, and i don't think it's necessarily because people backing down and seeing the error of their ways. i do fear, at what point the russians and the chinese come to the conclusion. that war is inevitable and that, you know, i don't think anything in this life is inevitable, but many may come to the conclusion that there's no other way out of this because the americans will simply present until something breaks. it's an ideological problem here. yes. because neal liberalism, as understood in practice by these elites, you don't believe in sovereignty at all. i mean, i think understanding of america 1st, in the sense of american exceptionalism,

one meet and, and no one else has. i mean, i've asked this repeatedly of neo cons. they don't say they're any a cause, but they really are isn't what it, what, what are the genuine national security interests of russia, but can't answer the question. because of that, if you just alien to them, how can another country have national interest? you the u.s. and the washington consensus, they determine what national interests are. all right, given the last 30 seconds of the program, there are 2 small grains of comfort here. one is that reading about lincoln, what we know about the lincoln policy is i think we can expect to see a restoration of the deal with iran is not a take of the dissatisfactory thing, but it makes a little bit more sense than the ludicrous situation that we are currently in, with respect to iran. lincoln does seem to support the extended stuff

treaty with russia is not a big thing when we're talking about a possibility and i don't think we have jim i, i tend to believe there's going to be a lot of conditionality with everything that's all the time we have you know what i think my guess, and washington raleigh and ohio. and i want to think our viewers are watching us here are these the next time. remember matts, geysers, financial survival guide, liquid assets are those that you can burn in zigzags quite easily. to keep in mind, no assets them into a place to watch, guys or board seal,

welcome. you should all wall to normal. got called up number real world will know what the open office in your local crews are up on. the board was to be with the union you lead to the need for some just a little coochie lead you to surround us. yes. most of the squad and some very unusual in any of these which are hoarding dell, i dealt with a few of the local which is based on marco you all are one with your means to see just to start a look at your bullshit i would leave lucas, i wish you the fury with the light chatter and

join me every 1st day on the alex salmond shill and i'll be speaking to get off of the world of politics. sports business, i'm show business. i'll see you then in a downward slope, europe wrestles with whether or not to shut its ski resorts in the winter to stem the spread of freezing yearnings song because in the u.k. are being held in prison like conditions at an abandoned barracks, london trying to gag whistleblowers, you tried to speak with those inside why don't you let them speak to the u.s. . a pharma company admits that it deliberately mishandled an addict to pay.