we have ray mcgovern, he is a former cia analyst who led the cia's soviet desk. and ohio, we have reprocessed. you all are a boy eric. he is a professor emeritus of bowling green state university in ohio, as well as author of russia gate and propaganda crossed operates out of that. that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it. ok, let's go to ray in raleigh. and i asked, i guess rhetorical questions in the, in my introduction here, we have the german port still to be released. but we're in the, the last days of this administration. and there's very little interest in what we're interested in, but it's not getting much public focus because obviously other things are in play. do you, will we ever find out really the origins of this and will people ever be held accountable because they, they basically took capture of an entire administration and they are unapologetic about it. go ahead. well as far as publishing is concerned, unnamed,

mainstream media, russia gate is too big to fail. it's like those banks in 20082001 is too many people committed to this legend. and so the mainstream media is not going to admit it. now, the only chance that many of us saw over the last couple of months was that president trump as he exited since he had pretty much nothing to lose, would order that they well, if he did sort of order didn't get it. he said, release everything, release everything, no retraction. i mean hello. and then 2 days later, it became clear that he didn't really issue an order for that. and so it looks very, very clear that not even trump and his less staged. well, let's put it this way. he looks like a pitiable giant of the kind that nixon coined direct praised

it on able to work his will on his subordinates 1st and foremost the head of the n.s.a. . and i'll just close by saying the head of his say has all the information anyone would ever want to see it should know about oldest. it's all recorded, it's all retrievable. and yet the acting defense secretary has now been instructed by trump to order paula, a sony, that general in charge of the n.s.a. released that information. so this, the deep state personified, you have recalcitrant people and i would just add that joe biden is one of them. i mean, he was not an aide there, and if nims jimena, it was involved and he approved the persecution of flynn and the attempt to intimidate the president elect said 2 days later, though, you know, it said it's very clear that biden it is one of the people who's involved here,

and so i expect not too much in the way of disclosure. you know, i mean, jim, we also have the head of the cia in a house building. completely unwilling to release relevant documents about this year. i guess maybe kind of jumping to the very conclusion of this because i think we're all like minded here in shows that deep state can win. and that's a very, very dangerous thing for the if for any president going into office now, is this you cannot challenge the inter agency consensus as they like to say, go ahead jim. by yasser peter. i mean i guess as a, as a diehard optimist. i hope there's possibly some oil a truck can pull this out, but i don't think that's very likely at this point. and assuming that by the ministration does take power, which is the odds on favorite this point, i think will be no looking back at the interregnum is over. the hiatus is over. they had the fear that was sent into the system that some great orange disruptor

was going to actually be of the commander in chief. and as an article 2 says, the executive branch of government, not the interagency consensus, which is mentioned nowhere in the constitution that would be over. i mean, as far as his releasing documents, that's right up there with his giving orders to get out of afghanistan or iraq or syria. donald trump never had an effect of control of the executive branch of government. and that hardly is due to his own really horrible appointees that he put had not. and he, if he had understood what he was doing from day one, you would realize he was behind the lines of enemy occupied territory. it was what put together a team of people that knew how to get the job done, to make sure his orders would be followed resident, resorting to tweets all the time about what his subordinates ought to do, that he could simply order them to do if he had people that would actually follow

his shorter, so i think not only what were none of these people responsible for russia gave rise again, whatever you want to call it ukraine gate. everybody called to account for quite the contrary. i think we're going to see this. what if there's robert reich accountability project? truth commission blacklists, where anybody now targeted by what i think will be a new shock to tele, here, and order with the merits of being the only permissible exchange of information, much more censorship on social media and so forth. i think we're going to see something that's unprecedented and certainly in american history that, that none of us should be looking for to matter what are all of the the media's role, they've acquitted themselves so badly here. i mean, because there, there are accomplices to all of this. i mean, over the years on this program, all of us have talked about the real evidence of wrongdoing by individuals in the

intelligence community in the d.o.j. in the f.b.i. . some people lost their jobs, though it may not be directly to that. what about the issue of russia gated cell? i mean a lack of candor and things like that. they were used to run, but i mean the media, i think they're, they're, they basically surrendered to this, this narrative and they, and now they've become willing of the national security state. i mean, i'm looking at all of our faces right now, but it wasn't always that way ahead on and may not always be in that way because the history of mainstream media in practically any country of the world has won the mainly of collusion with authority and in particular, with, with the deep states of all of the major nations or the united states is actually not particularly exceptional in, in this respect, a trunk was a wonderful gift to the media from an economic point of view. because the media as

a whole was, was flailing very badly as a result of its internal economic crisis. and here came along this incredibly interesting, intriguing clown like figure who is never going to be a savior from, from the, from the deep state. because he doesn't believe in anything other than his own self-interest and the interests of his family and everything else is just incredibly, if that moral will trump, trump was never a convincing save. but in the 2016 election, he did have one good idea. and a good idea was it doesn't make sense to actually be friendly with russia. and doesn't that make even better sense because it prevents the possibility of a more unified front between russia and china against u.s.

interests around the world. that was actually quite sensible. trump didn't have the degree of conviction that was necessary for him to follow through on one good thought that he had during his campaign. well, her name is not, you know, this to re right now. i don't, i don't think any of us will argue that, you know, donald trump, i think some very highly of themself. ok, obviously here, but i mean, if you, if you want to call himself asian, we go to break. now, the to selfishness is in the media and the deep state itself because they, they have damage the perception people have of these institutions here. i mean, hardly, you know, the cable t.v. the, the, the faith that people have been that now is a, is a minuscule now, because of all of this year, because as we've said on this program many, many times following this, every step of the way, i mean, when you, when you, when you look at, you know, where is the evidence of election fraud? well, there's nothing here to see. and then we say, well, what about,

what about this f.b.i. saying this and writing this down and, and eccentrics after they say there's nothing to see here. i mean, they have damaged themselves here because they're not believable anymore. and you can't have a functioning democracy. if people don't believe the media, the media are supposed to be on your side, not there. well, the media is the cornerstone of course. you know, i speak of not only n.y.c. the military industrial complex, but the military, industrial, congressional intelligence media, academia, think tank complex, making matt rhymes with mickey mouse. now why do i say media? because without the media being captivated, they could make it work is an example. we know now that the russians found out that hillary clinton on the 26th of july 2016, said, flame, the russians blame the russians. blame the russians for hacking blame the russians

for everything. ok, that same day they noted judy miller chair, in the new york times. david sanger had an article, same day, russia, russia, russia, russia. so they were both, both fed from the same trough and, and the russians were simply repeating what was obvious to everyone. and which, by the way, julian has signed himself, had said namely that this was a big distraction from the, from the e-mails, the showing that hillary had really stolen the nomination from bernie sanders. and after the election, of course, it was an excuse to explain why hillary lost and not incidentally to make sure that the mickey matt had a really potent enemy to build their arms shell. their arms justify the military pick francis, which are unconscionable in our society. you know, and james,

even in the interesting thing too, is that there was, is this demand by the powers that be pretty clean. the deep state is that it turns, you know, trump with friend teach and change direction or nuance things. i mean, while he's the president of the united states, but they drew the line and said the president will not be able to do this and invented a hoax against him. that lives to this day. i mean, we have the, the incoming designated secretary of state. i mean, he was a big russia. gator ok. and these people are going to be refined in center again. go ahead, james. exactly right. and i think when wright talks about the making matters, i call the no man cliff. they are now firmly in the saddle and i think we have crossed the rubicon here that there will be no challenge. edition the future that with the theft of this election, i think it was a normal politics now and of das, the republic as had been breaking down for decades is now finally gone. there will

never be and normal national election in the united states. again, these people will not let go. how are now that they have that fully integrated? and if you look at biden's team, i mean, you know, these are a pretty package warmongers that make mike on pay a look like gandhi. i mean, a lot of that, this is this, you know, i think we're going to see now is the, we're fair state and it's narrative and will hold him to trickle down. but we're going to go to the heart break. and after the hard break, we'll continue, our discussion will be a conclusion to russia. get state with r.t. . is your media a reflection of reality in

a world transformed what will make you feel safe from the isolation or community? are you going the right way, or are you being led directly? what is true? watch this space in the world corrupted, you need to descend to join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. thanks guys, or financial survival. when customers go by to reduce the price, didn't help well, reduce some lower that's undercutting, but what's good for market is not good for the global economy. because schumann's

wait again for, you know, millions of years to build up an emotional one. when the communication happens within 10 milliseconds in stipends zoom and all that have to strike that because it takes about 260 milliseconds, just flew us to talk. now if we have to get on the same room, you know, this emotional bond between us is very different. and fine, and she will bring this back. welcome back to cross talk. we're all things are considered really well. we're discussing whether russia gate will ever be completely exposed. ok, let's go back to jim in washington to bring to the break. you were making a point please. going to show yes, i think that we're going to see this integrated warfare state. so fooling control

now and the narrative supporting it. being the only one that is permitted. anything else would be conspiracy theory if they knew it was increasingly subject to censorship, that when we start getting a one of the 1st things i expect, by the way, is to revive the war in syria and be a regime change operation, syria. i guess we could start setting our watches, waking from the next question, our style gas attack, or whatever it is. i think the pressure against russia will step up exponentially and, and the narrative will shift will be, will be christiane amanpour for one. why and to be out there telling us how dastardly all these countries are, why the united states must act. and if anybody questions that it will simply not be heard by the vast majority of people. and i think this is bifurcation, our society and the marginalization of dissenting views is going to be a permanent feature, not a one to jump in. this want to mention something about syria. why are we in syria? i know we're in syria, but i know for israel most let's face it. the israelis have admitted that their

interest in the outcome in syria is that there be no outcome. that would be chaos that the potential perpetual warfare in syria. so that no sunni or shia can prevail and threaten israel. they've said that that's been their york times. look at the lead article, september 6th, 2013. they told the new york times said, your jerusalem correspondent, the preferred outcome is no outcome. as long as this bloodletting between shia and sunni quote, we have nothing to fear from syria. that's why we're in syria and the 1st the, the time krishna recognize that. we need to tell the american people, this is not our fight. and when are going to send any more us soldiers or even people who will fight for us to mess around the syria,

just because israel wants chaos there. you know all of her happy. i think all of this when you agree here, i mean it's, i can understand the way the deep state accent because they protect themselves. ok . i mean, even the impotent f.b.i. director. mean he's protecting the f.b.i. . i mean, it's so pathetic. i think the attorney general has done better, but that's not his wheelhouse necessarily here, but i am very intimately is the media here and i find it really quite. and i agree with your 1st answer that the media as they tend to kowtow to the powers that be when i mean, there are a lot of people that are very interested in this story here and it, it, and i think they're smarter group of people to be honest with the ok and we, we make compelling arguments because we actually make arguments. ok. because the other side just says, oh, that's just the conspiracy theory. but they're the ones that have been peddling a conspiracy theory. and this is the oddity of it all. and i,

and i'm not going to personally say people are liars, but it seems very convenient to go along with this with this narrative. i mean, these people in media, your pay pal, they get access because now media is not about journalism, it's about celebrity. i mean, it really works very well for them. and particularly in reporting on the national security state, they tend to be more stenographers than anything else. i mean, they're up there is investigative journalism out there, but for the national security state, you just, they feed you when you just write it ok. that is a pretty clean and that's very dangerous. jim is already said here. he questions the outcome of the election. people are more and more questioning these things here, and that's not very healthy for a person science. and i'm really afraid we're all going to be balkanized. go ahead . i think we talked about russia gate as being an extraordinary episode of public destruction in which the media was a prime player,

russia gate to structure this and many, many things including the corruption of the d.n.c. and it distracted us from the road doc, money and us elections, a destructive us from everything that is very wrong with the election with this 2 pocket dominant electoral system that we have. and amongst other things, very sadly, it distracted us from the reality for russia and the reality of china. and anyone who's visited cities recently and such like moscow or st. petersburg of beijing or shanghai, they will know these are incredibly vibrant places that the world is changing. we have examples of extraordinarily effective political leadership in these countries, the likes of which we have not seen here for several decades. this is the reality doesn't media the us media office, kate, they,

they have robbed 99.9 percent of the american population from understanding anything real about these 2 to not just these 2 countries about many countries. but in this context is a particularly important. the fact that we know nothing from the media about russia or about china, you know, who are a, one of the things that we've seen a dramatic shift i would say over the last few years is that the neo cons have been able to capture both parties now in this is really, this is an amazing and they've captured the media as well. i mean, when i was growing up, ok, i agree that c.n.n. and table didn't exist, but you didn't have, you know, you know, former directors of intelligence as a contributor to a television like on a.b.c. or n.b.c. or c.b.s. . and now, i mean, i just have to wonder if you know when, when clapper is doing his contribution, i think it's over m m s, n b c. i mean, is he camera briefing?

and then he tells his producer to tell the presenter to ask me a question. i mean, it's just all circular, ok? it's completely circular, like how we got into iraq year. i mean, and all over is absolutely right. i mean, having lived out states the world is a very different place than the media in the u.s. to trace it. right. peter, you mentioned james clapper, while national intelligence director, famous for among other things, shame that you know, the russian, we know from experience that the russians are, are almost should medically driven to be to co-opt, to penetrate, to do all kinds of almost chenault tickly driven my god, that's racism. that's the kind of thing that hillary used. i mean the russians are samus, the jews pushing and the russians have been demonized as is happening now for

the chinese and us media. what they don't seem to understand is what the old so it's used to call correlation of forces, correlation of forces or shifted cake. now is russia and china against the united states. partly because of the mistakes the united states has made. but there's a virtual military alliance between the 2 chain recently said, you know, we don't have to have a treaty, a defense treaty. we're so close. now though, we're at that point. well, let me add something. that means if some of our air force worriers cites a dust up, things in the ballot box, say you're up in the north of europe, then there's going to be trouble in the south china sea, mark my words, and the us can't afford this kind of thanks so the earlier the tony blinken and the rest of the stuff i'm reminded of the old nursery rhyme, we can blink and nod as long as blink. and those are not too much angle,

which is the reality. then we have a chance, but right now it doesn't look like even knows about the reality. he said following the old clinton deal. kerry drumbeat of demonizing both russia and china in a racial kind of way. and that's beyond the pale because that's part of fascism. you know, canuck engine, jim, i remember out of the molar report was released on the new york times, had some kind of a bed and i just, i just, i don't know who to laugh or cry, but they were saying maybe print president, try to trump should be, consider a new strategy with russia, considering how close russia and china have become. and i just thought you all of us on this program have been saying this for years. i mean, you're gay, you're creating this, you created this alliance. you, everyone should remember, we remember that it went on when president who came to power. he and he and overtures to the west, asking for a new architecture of security in europe,

repeatedly asking it. and then when, after every single time this firmed every single time, well the correlation of forces, as we just heard shifted and there could be, and that horses left the barn and they don't still understand that. because i'll tell you, the russian political elite simply doesn't trust the americans anymore. what is the term agreement incapable, jim? having painted it dystopian future, we can expect here domestically. i don't think people realize how terrifying we've dangerous what we're embarking on now. on the international scene, and these people, you know, we keep hearing about and i think ray's right the international situation has changed. people been saying, well, multiple larry is a reality. unfortunately, they have no medical authority. m.b.a. capitol here had not gotten the memo and that their arrogance is so should create and their attitude toward other countries that they can only exist as american

satellites is so strong. they will keep pressing not only against russia and china, but against iran and venezuela, and whoever else and north korea and, you know, something's gotta give it some point peter. and i don't think it's necessarily because people backing down and seeing the error of their ways. i do fear, at what point the russians and the chinese come to the conclusion that war is inevitable and that, you know, i don't think anything in this life is inevitable, but many may come to the conclusion that there is no other way out of this. because the americans will simply be pressing president until something breaks. it's an ideological problem here. yes. because neal liberalism, as understood in practice by these elites, you don't believe in sovereignty at all. i mean, you're outlining a vague understanding of america 1st, in the sense of american exceptionalism, one meet and, and no one else has. i mean,

i've asked this repeatedly of neo cons. they don't say they're any a cause, but they really are isn't what it, what, what are the genuine national security interests of russia, but can't answer the question. because of that, if you just alien to them, how can another country have national interest? you the u.s. and the washington consensus, they determine what national interests are. all right, given the last 30 seconds of the program, there are, there are 2 small grains of comfort here. one is the us reading about blink and what we know about blink and policies. i think we can expect to see a restoration of the deal with iran is not a take of the dissatisfactory thing, but it makes a little bit more sense than the ludicrous situation that we are currently in with respect to iran. lincoln does seem to support the extended stuff treaty with russia is not a big thing when we're talking about

a possibility and i don't think we have jim i, i tend to believe there's going to be a lot of conditionality with everything that's all the time we have you know what, i think my guess in washington raleigh. and you know what? i think our viewers are watching us here are these the next time. remember a member of

the board with the need for legions of us law and some of the locals wishing you luck with your means. there's a little bit more

it's been decades since the fall of spain's fascist regime. but old wounds still haven't healed me from a girl. do you are all of us at the source mean older than just the same question, which we know cells of newborn babies were torn from their mothers and given away and forced adoption. i don't know to

this day mothers still search for grown children while looking in hope for their birth parents. the headlines this hour asylum seekers in the u.k. claim they are being held in prison like conditions the dish used army barracks. while health officials warn that they're being flouted, we tried to speak with those inside, but probably why don't you let them speak? there are also to turn at realities. as many americans left. jobless by the pandemic queue with food banks on thanksgiving. the rich see their thanks to.