well, not only one said in my heart, i am palestinian. he declared the motives of western powers in syria was to destroy a secular nation hours before he died. warplanes from israel, armed by britain, even nations, and the us a bomb. the oldest continuously inhabited city in the world, damascus. joining me now from room is the conflict forums, alister croak, who cut his teeth at m i 6, and since the siege of bethlehem has dedicated his life to deescalating violence. alastair, thanks so much for coming on going underground. i think it's a 1st time, although we don't choose the moment for now. just how do you explain the fact that during a pandemic we know antonio good terrorism, he wanted a worldwide ceasefire. why was there this barash? of aerial bombardment from the israeli air force on damascus. and this happening as we hear netanyahu going to saudi arabia denied by the saudis, and to the blinken. this old obama era official being selected by joe biden to be the next secretary of state. so what i think her principal, the main aim,

and this at the moment, and the main aim that netanyahu, how deicing, with these visit to saudi arabia could meet m.b.'s, the crown prince. the 1st priority for relief for israel is to get iran put at the top of the agenda for the administration. the same coming administration will have many other domestic issues to deal with. it's not clear whether they will control the senate or not. it's not clear they'll get their agenda through and he wants to put iran really sort of front and center. so this is a way of calling attention to it. calling attention to iran, if you like, what he would add a regional role. and i think the other aspect of what's going on is to sort of heighten the tensions because the railroad

was the main reason i think for the visit to saudi arabia was to agree a few reichen agenda with the saudis, about iraq. where are we going to stand in iraq? i mean, i think, i mean, this isn't this character tony blinken has previously said about talk about regime change in syria and the renewal of that. but you expect this is very much because of lincoln and biden's support for the j. c. p. o, a nuclear agreement with iran, some type of attempt at for stalling a resumption of that agreement. yes, i do. i think what they were doing is, you know, you have at one end of the sort of spectrum, you've got a bomb, a sort of project. and then at the other end you have the 12 conditions, maximalist conditions laid down by palmdale. and i guess they fear in israel and the sincerity arabia that it's will be closer to the end of the spectrum, closer to the obama, with

a few changes on sectoral is another things like hers. whereas netanyahu probably wants it as close as possible to the erection, to the maximalist position that laid out in it in his conditionality, but talks with iran are engaging with iran and somewhere in between the true dale hogg to me. but i think actually it's unlikely they will meet. i think what they were doing in saudi arabia was fixing a very tough agenda for the united states. negotiated if there are negotiations with iran, iran has said very clearly. good. it's not going to negotiate stall until america comes back into compliance with the j. c, p o 8. and sorry, if said the only way to do that is he's got to comment. they've got to come in line with the security council resolution 2231 which falls into it if you write that, that j. c, p, o 8 text. so he says,

if you can come in with us and be get rid of all of the sanctions, all of the adverse things have happened since you can do it through executive orders. then maybe we can talk. but i think that speech by zarif met a degree of criticism him back in iran fall saying that was an old friend of biden knows him quite well from his time when he was in new york and feels as a personal chemistry. but i don't think that that's really likely to take it very far. and at the moment, washington is putting on its new sanctions. they promised sanctions every week. but what's different, what's important to buy these sanctions is that these are not sanctions on the nuclear issues. these are making inskeep type sanctions. i think she was dealing with human rights violations and birth of

a matter of but not the nuclear issues. the closer to god, i am my thanks to my the trauma ministration, of course dinosaurs, the ministration tone drunk, of course, believes the we won the election, the input. so who is going to win and just, he explained, so are israel are those who we believe israel when it says that it's destroying in reining in targets in syria and, and wine. why is there be no so-called, mainstream media reporting of as strikes on the capital city of a major country in the middle east or mainstream reporter these days is rather sort of rather eccentric. certainly in terms of the united states, i mean large elements of what's happening in the world are just not reported to the nothing with the b.b.c. here in britain either. not, no, no, i know, but they're all, they're all following this again, her up items women coming in,

that it's going to be, you know, back to back to the office, you know? but i think that actually what's happening with iran is that biden is over, baby is asking for too much from the us. and he's saying he wants to bring in all of the gulf states, saudi arabia. israel must be, must be in agreement with that. the israeli ambassador said the campian agreement, unless israel is at the table, they want to get rid of the sunset clauses. they want to change other aspects of it . i'm not sure that iran will do that, so they've made it very clear they don't want to. and what's changed is iran has new options, there's rusher and china. more that the american administration of mr. trump attacked china and russia. so the closer that has brought them to iran. iran has pivotal in the planning both russia and of china. and china has been investing

large resources in or in iran quietly, but substantial resources on row way live in some old, poor korea, stablish months, refurbishing an oil field and so on. so i think, you know, iran can look east, it doesn't have to look to america at this very time. china has just opened a new market and then all the regional economic partnership with 2200000000 people, one 3rd of global g n. i mean a market because of the european union sooner rather. so you really think that the threat of 3rd party so-called 3rd party in the illegal us sanctions is just doesn't work anymore. threatening. companies that do trade with washington and, and nato is perceived enemies. oh, it works with some european companies, i mean, look what's happened to the, or

a fair in attempts to try and get some sort of arrangement for trade with iran. all of the, i mean, certainly all of the banks and european insurance companies get frightened by the threat of american sanctions. but the world is a very different place from 4 years ago. america is not seen as a natural, they're sure. i know that biden talks and putting come by the way, it always says, i mean it's favorite. catchphrase has always been the world is very bad, itself organizing. that's why america has to organize it or it and i don't think those days exist. i don't think russia or china and the rest of the well are just waiting for direction or islands. biden said, you know, to take their seat at the talk to able at the top of the table and to give it any instructions or for the world. they see what's happened during the selection. they see that the americans polity is hopelessly divided. they see the konami can try

natural crisis. that is taking place even as the stock market is soaring. they know this is not a good place to be. iran is, is not if you are right in this respect and does have now all other things and wouldn't give up its sovereignty, which would be certainly the sort of sum total of the demands that will be made by washington. i mean, you know, this will be, we're dollar amount of saddam hussein's. you know, the americans insisting that they have to inspect his bedroom and it's always a blinking as previous on this because the he was part of the destruction of africa's riches. but haven't country illyria i mean, even gave, you're not lucky enough to be arraigned in as if it were. and what happens if you are against israeli violations of un security council? resolutions? i mean has, will, or m.p.'s democratically elected as will or, and bees in beirut. and i used to live in beirut,

then there sanctioned by the european union. any change for red has won or, or, i mean, even for normal activists who support palestine a bit about the blinken says the media. yes. the boycott divestment sanctions campaign is his anti semitic? yes, i think they're going to. they're going to put that into legislation. no, i don't think so. i think biden is a zionist, has always been a zionist brink, and it is his parents who choose jewish. his step father was caused by i don't think we're going to see much change and have tracked in israel there, almost welcoming it sigh. one person summed it up in this way and he said look, you know, bamma. he was just too rational. he didn't have the feel for the region a tool, whereas in their view, biden kemal arris,

who buys the sign as they feel our emotions, they understand our emotions, the emotional landscape much better for israel and quite different than it was under obama. so i don't think we should look for and think any big changes i rivera much regretted. i gives me no pleasure in saying it. but i can see, i mean i know the palestinian authority is now gone back into security coordination with israel and said they'll review payments to prisoners families and things like that. but you know, the, the reality is there's no peace policy. and israel, if netanyahu something happened to netanyahu, there wouldn't be a peace body. it would be more likely to be the hard right. the orthodox and the far right in israel. that will, if not, not, will not be in part, that will be the,

if you're like the key swing voters and then a few chip political set up in israel. so it's, it's moved far to the right. no one is thinking of a political solution from the palestinians within israel at the moment and the palace companions really have few cards which to play the gulf states of now shifted. saudi arabia will, sooner or later, i guess. and europe just doesn't have, i think the will to play the set too excited with biden selection and dreaming that it's all going to be a return to the good old atlantis's of the past. i think they're mistaken security . thank you. thank you very much. in the after the break, as a fire kills 10 with coronavirus of an intensive care unit in nature, a member rumania, what is the level of neo liberal corruption in the former moscow in one state, the director of all scripted film collective about remaining years previous worst

tells us about profit driven corruption. that echoes testimony heard this week about britain's worst tower inferno, austerity emblem graham fell to, i'm going underground in a way that

it would, if he does not get enough of me because it is giving me a higher he come with us from the humble that the alternate as i need to make him talk about. i don't like about what's going on back. i'm no one and all that bad books are a lot about annoying. all part of our if you are never going to get some other

join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics. sport. i'm sure. i'll see you there. welcome back. an inquiry has been launched in nato member rumania, to determine how 10 patients suffering from co in 1000 were killed by a fire at a public hospital is the deadliest fighting 2015 when hundreds of people were killed or injured at the collective night club in bucharest, echoing allegations made against authorities here in london about the grenfell fire . a new york attempt to remain in film explores have political corruption, big pharma, and the state work together to line pockets while the suffering or arguably crushed

. collective has been dubbed the best film about journalism since all the president's men and its director, alexander now joins me now from the roumanian capital book. arrested is on a thanks. so much rain has been in the news, not a just for the terrible fire also for $3900000.00 on patriot missiles. there's an inquiry going on here into a fire, which killed 72 people in the poorest area of one of the richest on earth in west london. tell me about the fire in your new film. thanks for having me. 1st of all of the fire in the collective club. it's happened during the concert. it was the collective judgment because many people went to concerts and then the students. and that's why rules such a national tragedy. i was shocked because the club had no liar exits, but it was nevertheless, tourists on my department, mairi and that led to the assumption that corruption must have been our no doors

or ization. and the way when you watch the film, sorry to interrupt there, but when you watch the film, you think that's the way that's the angle, the journalists are going to go on. but it's different. it's different because basically the most horrible thing that is accident the lenses of many people was the fact that the old or these lives and the remaining health care system and take care of them were victims which were over 180, which it was a big manipulation lie because redundant man only units and that the one they had was, as you see, but still not in a condition to treat anybody patient or one. and they prohibited everybody to be flown out to bring units and not

easily. and instead, many people died of hospital infections because our hospitals are really have to mostly actions in europe, especially now. and we put our faith in the big pharmaceutical companies to produce that seems we are all hoping that they succeed in finding solutions to covert. it turns out that they were dying from infections, partly because of what a pharmaceutical company was doing to disinfectant. exactly that stance. started balling thing and that's what to do lists, investigate it further. it was one company called texas our who was looting its disinfectants and was distributing this. does it sentence him to 350 hostages are made and what is to lose my knowledge is that the politicians and the health care of patients not only knew, but it seems that everybody was august this fraud scheme on my belly does he think

that's what is hospitals that are already being yanked here, they can imagine if you can ignore everything. i thought every last if you fit into your hating me right now, the thought of it or not rule out any children who were 80 or 90 9 out. i think that by laying on my own interest, i know it's me on the scope of the film. and what did you make of the reports that have similar dilutions, all of important medicines like that were being used on romanian soldiers in the age of operations. exactly. the same, the same disinfectants from texas pharma were also delivered by the remaining government for their own needs or mission with other countries. so not only remaining soldiers were getting treated, you know,

into operation camps was actually farmer, but also shoulders of other native countries. he, when there was a fire here in london, the person who was associated linked with it was made a lord in your film. you have a character who obviously real cause if so it's a real, it's dramatic, obviously than the film of yours. you have a health minister that actually they make progress and action actually happens because of what of the tragedy and because of the corruption. we've not seen that here in britain because we have an ongoing inquiry. tell me about how action came to happen in the wake of the fire and the uncovering of corruption. the only way it happened is that there were the minister of house that was appointed after the journalist got a wonder that was trying to cover that company. was of not part of any political party. so he was nonpolitical and that's why he had the courage to start before.

now what you described in the beginning, what happened was the hospital and go with patients fighting a fire in a hospital. that hospital had had 8 managers in the last 10 months. so the political parties basically just erase everything that this young man had done as a moose or oath. and you know, they just appoint the managers into the hospitals to steal the money. and right now, for example, this young minister of health is part of a reformatory party that existence 2 years, rumania and they do whatever they can to block him out of the media. so little cannot, you know, talk about anti-corruption and reforming the health care system. because i don't to give away the film or the ending of the veil. madame the film is very optimistic in terms of the way people together can fight corruption and what happened to the

3. go ahead. there are many stories very optimistic about a collective because while the political class did not change at all, the civil society changed totally. and we had a very strong 2 society. and in the last 2 years, the civil society was donations from citizens and donations from the band. metallica that donated a quarter 1000000 euro, or build a hospital, a really big, great, modern hospital for cancer, treatment, and inability to years just to show the government the lies and addiction of its hospitals since the early years. once feel a little cannot be sustained. it's ok with crucial to the our story is the presence of whistleblowers. now you might know that and we submerge chelsea manning in the united states is a different case. he was imprisoned and tortured in the us. julian assange, he's in jail just near this studio. how did whistleblowers in romania have the courage to come forward and why were they not persecuted for revealing the truth

about the collective of because they told the truth, that it was proven by the journalists to be right. the journalists proved it was documents. how much of a thought the arming of the political people i just heard given the, put out of our yard to achieve some of you were shocked by that you have a point in fact and we found that even with the impact be the you think that if the visit your cue up would going to slip into my pretty close view of the impact they would of but why did the government not persecute the journalists to cover up the truth? like it has done arguably they tried a triage and they tried, as you see in the film detroit to, to make the scene, make them seem like all in a little investigation, estate, news. but just for you to understand the level of implication in the reading state, after too late 5 years after the collective fire, there were 12 court cases opened,

including everything you see in the film, hospital manager of you know, the politicians that lies not a single case was pulled under the dates, but a single case in 5 years. so this is the incompetence of the corruption itself because over there and in the film, the documentation is not destroyed. here are going to be documentation is often destroyed. in fact, at the grenfell firing choir. we've heard testimony about evidence being destroyed . oh, it's different because for example, what they do in the case of the patients, the kind of infections instead of their injuries, once the bases were flown. because of the pressure of a game to begin to start to die. what the doctors that in the hospital managers, they erased from their files, the data that they were effected. so basically when they arrived in our hospitals, in england, there were a lot of people treated in your consulate in europe,

in brussels, in, in austria. the doctors there didn't know the infected so many took them off the medication for infections and some bite. you know what else are disturbing about the dilution of disinfectant and that america seems in this documentary about the lethal impact of that is that it's clearly for profit on their part of the pharmaceutical company in britain. over many years. we have tried to create more and more private health care believing that private health care create competition and that is good for healthcare. or what do you think the lessons about for profit health care from your documentary? i see that universal health care is great and it can work when we see it in other countries, privacy it in germany, it does work, it doesn't have to be totally privatized, but competition is never banned. if it is controlled, it should not be like in america where when you broke an hour, you break an arm,

you have to pay $10000.00. that's ridiculous. but you cannot have universal health care is governments that steal the way they steal. now has your own government stealing nawas will investigate is going on in your nickel real crisis and they spend all the money out of it and they're and you need a very strong judicial system to keep things in balance. and that's one of the mean roman soldiers and systems are not able to be more to go after people in power that steal our public money. obviously, the british government denies corruption in its response to corona virus. it does that repeatedly, but of course we have a much worse per capita coronavirus death toll in this country than in rumania. tell me maybe even the collective experience and the journalists, exposing what happened maybe helping the health system cope with the coronavirus in

your country. it's hard to say, i mean what i can say, and what they know from journalists is that after we released the film, the number of whistleblowers for the journalists went up 110 times a day. so people are coming forward and people start to, to unveil the corruption in the differences in state institutions over the hospitals. unfortunately, the government right now is still in mind. there are the media has hospital infections, which is scientifically nonsense. every country has hospital infections and right now inside the hospitals remain over 90 percent of the injured babies. over patients died most probably off to hospital infections. well we invite the romanian as in london on the program. just finally, as a filmmaker i wanted to feel like when you caught on film, one of the people in your documentary saying we are no longer human. we only care about money. about remained. it's an understatement. it's

a complete understatement. seeing the lack of humanity. there is right in the healthcare system that is leads to olympics and to corruption. and as you say, your government says there's no corruption. that means they say that all the investigations going on in the garden and it will go to a press right now about money are being used or i was on an ana. thank you. and collective is out now on digital platforms in the ground for fire inquiry in london takes a break today that's over the show where back on wednesday, 10 years since revelations in the u.k. guardian accused now of defaming its journalist julian, a son jimmy joe biden, accused the wiki leaks founder of being a high tech terrorist, and as others argued for an obama drone strike on the father of 2. now being tortured in london, according to the un until then join the underground on you tube, twitter, sound cloud, instagram, and facebook. the

foreign policy team of a potential buy in ministration is being touted by the liberal media. we'll tell you why all this should be horrified. also there's a lot of talk of a great reset and build back better looking backward. bode well for the future. we're segregated in there by social class, lower middle class people also in poverty by 1st name. if you're born into a poor family, ah, you're born into a minority family. if you're born into a family that only has a single parent that really constrains your life, chances people die 15 years younger than if you're born into generational poverty. it's a fight every day. so you meet your needs and the needs of your family. the

players in the middle east is not in the killing of a wrongs top nuclear fission. this led to the retaliating, creating a quagmire for future by dint of ministration. one ton of money for children, a new rights report face hundreds of women and children with new faces from ship are being held in inhuman conditions in serious refugee camps. and teachers in norway are afraid to show cartoons of the prophet muhammad in class, according to a new survey, very personal consequences following last month's murder of a french to.