allister croak who cut his teeth at m i. 6, and since the siege of bethlehem has dedicated his life to deescalating violence. alastair, thanks so much for coming on going underground. i think it's a 1st time, although we don't choose the moment for just how do you explain the fact that during a pandemic we know antonio good terrorism. he wanted a worldwide ceasefire. why was there this barash of aerial bombardment from the israeli air force on damascus? and this happening as we hear netanyahu going to saudi arabia denied by the saudis, and to the blinken. this old obama era official being selected by joe biden to be the next secretary of state. so what i think her principal, the main aim, and this at the moment and the main aim that netanyahu howard, i think, with his visit to saudi arabia could meet m.b.'s, the crown prince. the 1st priority for really,

for israel is to get iran put at the top of the agenda for the administration. the same coming administration will have many other domestic issues to deal with. it's not clear whether they will control the senate or not. it's not clear they'll get their agenda through and he wants to put iran really sort of front and center. so this is a way of calling attention to it. calling attention to iran, if you like, what he would term adverse regional role. and i think the other aspect of what's going on is to sort of heighten the tensions because the railroad was the main reason i think for the visit to saudi arabia was to agree a few reichen agenda with the saudis, about iraq. where are we going to stand in iraq? i mean, i think, i mean, this isn't this character tony blinken has previously said about,

talked about regime change in syria and the renewal of that. but as you expect, this is very much because of lincoln and biden's support for the j. c. p. o, a nuclear agreement with iran, some type of attempt at for stalling a resumption of that agreement. yes, i do. i think what they were doing is, you know, you have at one end of the sort of spectrum, you've got a bomb, a sort of project. and then at the other end you have the 12 conditions, maximalist conditions laid down by palmdale. and i guess they fear in israel and the sincerity arabia, that it will be closer to the end of the spectrum, closer to the a bomb, a with a few changes on sectoral as is another things like hers. whereas netanyahu probably wants it as close as possible to the erection, to the maximalist position that laid out in it in his conditionality, but talks with iran are engaging with iran and somewhere in between the true dale

hogg to me. but i think actually it's unlikely they will meet. i think what they were doing in saudi arabia was fixing a very tough agenda for the united states. negotiated if there are negotiations with iran. iran has said very clearly that it's not going to negotiate tall until america comes back into compliance with the j. c, p o 8. and sorry, if said the only way to do that is he's got to comment. they've got to come in line with the security council resolution 2231, which falls into it. if you write that that g. c.p.o. a text. so he says, if you can come in without and be get rid of all of the same sions, all of the adverse things have happened since you can do it through executive orders. then maybe we can talk. but i think that speech by zarif met us

degree of criticism him back in iran. fall saying that was an old friend of biden knows him quite well from his time when he was in new york and feels as a personal chemistry. but i don't think that that's really likely to take it very far. and at the moment, washington is putting on its new sanctions. they promised sanctions every week. but what's different, what's important to buy these sanctions is that these are not sanctions on the nuclear issues. these are making inskeep type sanctions. i think she was dealing with human rights violations and both of them out of but not the nuclear issues. the closer to god, i am by sanctions, by the german ministration, of course, by the drama ministration tone drunk, of course, believes the we won the election but a bit damp. so who is going to win and just, he explained, so are israel or as we believe israel when it says that it's destroying in reining

in targets in syria and, and wine, why is there be no so-called, mainstream media reporting of as strikes on the capital city of a major country in the middle east or mainstream reporter these days has for all the sort of rather eccentric, certainly in terms of the united states. i mean large elements of what's happening in the world are just not reported to the nothing with the b.b.c. here in britain either. not, no, no, i know, but they're all, they're all following this again, her up items women coming in, that it's going to be, you know, back to back to the office, you know? but i think that actually what's happening with iran is that biden is over, baby is asking for too much from the us. and he's saying he wants to bring in all of the gulf states, saudi arabia. israel must be,

must be in agreement with that. the israeli ambassador said the campian agreement, unless israel is at the table, they want to get rid of the sunset cross'. they want to change other aspects of it . i'm not sure that iran will do that, so they've made it very clear they don't want to. and what's changed is iran has new options as russia and china. more that the american administration of mr. trump attacked china and russia. so the closer that has brought them to iraq. iran has a pivotal in the planning both russia and of china. and china has been investing large resources in or in iran quietly, but substantial resources on row way live in some old, poor korea, stablish months, refurbishing an oil field and so on. so i think, you know, iran can look east,

it doesn't have to look to america at this very time. china has just opened a new market and then all the regional economic partnership with 2200000000 people, one 3rd of global g m. i mean a market because of the european union general. so you really think that the threat of 3rd party so-called 3rd party in the illegal us sanctions is just doesn't work anymore. threatening. companies that do trade with washington and, and nato is perceived enemies. oh, it works with some european companies, i mean, look what's happened to the, or a fair in attempts to try and get some sort of arrangement for trade with iran. all of the, i mean, certainly all of the banks and european insurance companies get frightened by the threat of american sanctions. but the world is a very different place from 4 years ago. america is not seen as a natural,

they're sure. i know that biden talks and putting come by the way, it always says, i mean it's favorite catch phrase has always been the world is very bad, itself organizing. that's why america has to organize it or it and i don't think those days exist. i don't think russia or china and the rest of the well are just waiting for direction or islands. biden said, you know, to take their seat at the talk to able at the top of the table and to give me instructions for, for the world. they see what's happened during the selection. they see that the american polity is hopelessly divided. they see the konami can try natural crisis. that is taking place even as the stock market is soaring. they know that this is not a good place to be. iran is, is not if you are right in this respect and does have now all other things and will it give up its sovereignty,

which would be certainly the sort of sum total of the demands that will be made by washington. i mean, you know, this will be, we're dollar amount of saddam hussein's. you know, the americans insisting that they had to inspect his bedroom and his bathroom. why was he blinking as previous on this? because the he was part of the destruction of africa's richest government country and libya. i mean even ok if you're not lucky enough to be here a 1000000 as it were. and what happens if you are against israeli violations of un security council resolutions? i mean has, will or m.p.'s democratically elected as well or in bees in beirut. and i used to live in beirut, then there sanctioned by the european union. any change for red has winner or i mean, even from a normal activists who support palestine a bit about the blinken says the media. yes. the boycott divestment sanctions

campaign is his anti semitic. yes, i think they're going to, they're going to put that into legislation. no, i don't think so. i think biden is a zionist, has always been, is on the brink, and it is his parents who choose to reach his stepfather, was caused by i don't think we're going to see much change and have tracked in israel where almost sort of welcoming it. sigh. one person summed it up in this way and he said look, you know, bamma, he was just too rational. he didn't have the feel for the region, a tool. whereas in their view, biden kemal arris, who, but as a sign, as they feel our emotions, they understand our emotions, the emotional landscape much better for israel and quite different than it was under obama. so i don't think we should look for and think any big changes i rivera,

much regret, and i gives me no pleasure in saying it. but i can see, i mean, i know the palestinian authority is now gone back in to security coordination with israel. and that they will review payments to prisoners, families and things like that. but you know, the, the reality is there's no peace policy. and israel, if netanyahu something happened to netanyahu, there wouldn't be a peace body. it would be more likely to be the hard, right. the orthodox and the far right in israel, that will, if not, not, will not be in part that will be the, if you like, the key swing voters and then the future political set up in israel. so it's, it's moved far to the right. no one is thinking of a political solution from the palestinians within israel at the moment, and the palace, me on this, really have

a few cards which to play the gulf states of now shifted. saudi arabia will, sooner or later, i guess. and europe just doesn't have, i think the will to play the set too excited by points election and dreaming that it's all going to be a return to the good old atlantis's of the past. i think they're mistaken security . thank you. thank you very much. in the after the break, as a fire kills 10 with coronavirus of an intensive care unit in nature, a member rumania. what is the level of neo liberal corruption in the former moscow aligned states, the director of all scripted film collective about remaining years previous west, tells us about profit driven corruption that echoes testimony heard this week about britain's worst tower inferno, austerity emblem, grenfell going underground seem

wrong, but i just don't get to say power is the

answer and it equals betrayal. when some find themselves worlds apart, to look for common ground, no way it would if it is

not part of our welcome back. an inquiry has been launched in member rumania to determine how 10 patients suffering from 1000 were killed by a fire at a public hospital is the deadliest fisons 2015 when hundreds of people were killed or injured at the collective night club in bucharest, echoing allegations made against authorities here in london about the grim for the new oscar attempt to remain in film explores a political corruption, big pharma, and the state work together to line pockets while the suffering are arguably

crushed. collective has been dubbed the best film about journalism. since all the president's men and its director, alexander now joins me now from the rumanian capital book, arrested xander. thanks so much. rain has been in the news. not just for the terrible fire. also for $3900000000.00 on patriot missiles. there's an inquiry going on here in 2 of which killed 72 people in the poorest area of one of the richest on earth in west london. tell me about the fire in your new shell. thanks for having me. 1st of all the fire in the collective club, it's happened during a concert. it was the collective talk and because of the many people went to concerts and such, and he students. and that's why it was also such a national tragedy of a shock because the club had no liar exits, but it was nevertheless surprised because i did. parkman, and mary. and that led to the assumption that corruption must have been

our of doors, or is asian. and the way when you watch the films are to interrupt them, or when you watch the film, you think that's the way that's the angle, the journalists are going to go on. but it's different. it's different because basically the most horrible thing are that is accident, that lenders, or many people, was the fact that the owners or these lives and the remaining health care system can take care of them, were victims which were a 180 which was a big manipulation. and lie because really didn't know him early in its and that the one they had was as you see. but phil, not in a condition to treat anybody patient for a while and they prohibited everybody to be flown out to bring units and money easily. and

instead, many people died of hospital infections because our hospitals really have to most legal actions in europe, especially now when we put our faith in the big pharmaceutical companies to produce, that seems we are all hoping that they succeed in finding solutions to covert. it turns out that they were dying from infections, partly because of what a pharmaceutical company was doing to disinfectant. exactly. then stan started balling thing and that's what to do lists, investigate it. further. it was one company called texas r.r. who was looting its disinfectants and was distributing this. does it sentence him to 350 hunters or a media and want us to lose my knowledge is that the politicians and the health care of patients not only knew, but it seems that everybody was august. this fraud scheme will lie and then read this fact. that's what is hospitals that are already being yanked here they can

imagine if you can a 30 i thought of that. if you fit into your hating me right now, he thought of it or not rule out any talk on doing anything that quantity. now that they think that by laying on my own interest, i know it's beyond the scope of the film. and what did you make of the reports that have similar dilutions, all of important medicines like that well being is on romanian soldiers in the age of operations. exactly the same. the same disinfectants from texas pharma were also delivered by the remaining government for their own needs. or mission with other countries. so not only remedial soldiers were getting treated you know,

into operation camps was actually pharma, but also shoulders of other native countries. here when there was a fire here in london, the person who was associated linked with it was made a lord in your film. you have a character who obviously real cause if so it's a real, it's dramatic, obviously than the film of yours. you have a health minister that actually they make progress and action actually happens because of war of the tragedy. and because of the corruption, we've not seen that here in britain because we have an ongoing inquiry. tell me about how action came to happen in the wake of the fire and the uncovering of corruption. the only way it happened is that there were the minister of house that was appointed after the journalist got a wonder that was trying to cover the company. was of a lot harder when the political fardy, so he was nonpolitical and that's why he had the courage to start before. now what

you described in the beginning, what happened was the hospital and go with patients fighting a fire in a hospital. that hospital had had 8 managers in the last 10 months. so the political parties basically just erase everything that this young man had done as a moose or oath. and you know, they just appoint the managers into the hospitals to steal the money. and right now, for example, this young minister of health is part of a reformatory party that exists to use your media and they do whatever they can to block him out of the media. so that he doesn't cannot, you know, talk about anti-corruption and reforming the health care system because i don't to give away the film or the ending of the veil. madame, the film is very optimistic in terms of the way people together can fight corruption. and what happened to the 3,

go ahead there are many stories very optimistic about a collective because while the political class did not change at all, the civil society changed totally. and we had a very strong 2 society. and in the last 2 years, the civil society was donations from citizens and donations from the band. metallica that donated a quarter 1000000 euro, or build a hospital, a really big, great, modern hospital for cancer, treatment, and inability to years just to show the government that they lied, that they cannot use hospitals since the early years. ones feel a little cannot be sustained. ok with crucial to their story is the presence of whistleblowers. now you might know that and we submerge chelsea manning in the united states of a different case. he was imprisoned and tortured in the us. julian assange and he's in jail just near this studio. how did whistleblowers in romania have the courage to come forward and why were they not persecuted for revealing the truth about the

collective other because they told the truth that was proven by digital as to be right. the journalist proved it was documents. how much time before the arming of, of political people. i just have a different one from the put out of our yard to achieve. some of you were shocked by that you have a point. in fact, the only fact that even the impact be the youth of it. if the visit to cuba lock up and going to sleep into my pretty close view of the in part a little. but why did the government not persecute the journalists to cover up the truth? like it has done? arguably, they tried a triage and they tried, as you see in the film, detroit to, to make the scene, make them seem like all in a little investigation. estate news, but just for you to understand the level of implication in the reading state. after too late 5 years article expired, there were 12 court cases open,

including everything you see in the film. hospital manager of you know, the politicians that lied. hostler is the lie that they can treat a patient which led to the club owners. not a single case was pulled under the dates, but a single case in 5 years. so is it the incompetence of the corruption itself? because over there and in the film, the documentation is not destroyed. her give me documentation is often destroyed in fact, at the grenfell firing choir. we've heard testimony about evidence being destroyed . oh, it's different because for example, what they do in the case of the patients, the kind of infections instead of their bird injuries, once the bases were flown out, because of the 1st, it became too big and he started to die. what the doctors that in the hospital managers, they erased from their files, the data that they were effected. so basically when they arrived in other hospitals, in england, there were a lot of people treated in your consulate in europe,

in brussels, in, in austria. the doctors there didn't know the infected so many took them off the medication for infections and somebody that you know what else are disturbing about the dilution of disinfectant. and that america seems in this documentary about the lethal impact of that is that it's clearly for profit on their part of the pharmaceutical company in britain. over many years, we have tried to create more and more private health care believing that private health care create competition and that is good for healthcare. or what do you think the lessons about for profit health care from your documentary? i see that universal health care is great and it can work through. we see it in other countries, privacy it in germany, it does work. it doesn't have to be totally privatized, where the competition is never banned. it is controlled. it's

a little bit like in america where when you broke an hour, you break an arm, you have to pay $10000.00. that's ridiculous. but you cannot have universal health care is governments that steal the way they steal now. has your own government stealing nawas? will investigate is going on in your nickel real crisis and they spend all the money and they're and you need the nurses um, judicial system to keep 6 in balance. and that's one of the main problems. only just systems are not able anymore to go after people in power that steal our public money. obviously, the british government denies corruption in its response to corona virus. it does that repeatedly, but of course we have a much worse per capita coronavirus death toll in this country than in rumania. tell me maybe even the collective experience and the journalists,

exposing what happened maybe helping the health system cope with the coronavirus in your country. it's hard to say, i mean what i can say, and what they know from journalists is that after we released the film, the number of whistleblowers for the journalists went up, i think, 10 times a day. so people are coming forward and people start to, to unveil the corruption in the differences in state institutions over the hospitals. unfortunately, the government right now is still in mind that there are the media has hospital infections, which is scientifically nonsense. every country has hospital infections and right now is that the hospitals remain over 90 percent of the injured babies. over patients died most probably off to hospital infections. well we invite the romanian as in london on the program. just finally, as a filmmaker i wanted to feel like when you caught on film, one of the people in your documentary saying we are no longer human. we only care

about money. about remained. it's an understatement. it's a complete understatement. see the lack of humanity in the healthcare system that is leading olympics and to corruption. and as you say, your government says there's no corruption. they say there will be investigations going on in the garden and it will get a paper destroyed about money art. but i was on a thank you and collective is out now on digital platforms in the ground fire inquiry in london takes a break today that's over the show. we're back on wednesday 10 years since revelations in the u.k. guardian accused now of defaming its journalist julian, a son jimmy joe biden accused the wiki leaks founder of being a high tech terrorist and his other dog you'd for an obama drone strike on the father of 2, now being tortured in london, according to the un until then join the underground on you tube, try to sound cloud, instagram and facebook. along

my social class. people world poverty by 1st. if you're born into a poor family, if you're born into a minority family, if you're born into a family that only has a single parent that really constrains your life chances people that i am a stiff, 20 years old. if you're going to generational poverty, it's a tough fight every day. so you, you eat your needs and their needs of your family. the

foreign policy team of a potential binding ministrations be counted by the liberal media. we tell you why all this should be horrified. also, there's a lot of talk of a great reset, better looking for bode well for the future key players in the middle east. slam the assassination of iran's top nuclear scientist tehran is blaming israel and the us creating a major challenge for the incoming biden administration. also this hour teachers in norway say they would be afraid to show cartoons of the prophet muhammad in class. after last month's murder of a french teacher spoke with one of them. after the murder of the t, i decided not to show them at all because i felt when i felt my profession.