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allah can do so because visionaries may so think shevardnadze humor can be a lifeboat in dark times when it seems we have nothing to laugh about at all but how is today's reality transforming what we find funny. they swear that target humor interior and best selling author. and guitar in him are engineer and bestselling writer great to have you with us today what a time to talk about humor. absolutely it's one of those times where people are like. is it ok to talk about humor and in fact it's one of those things where it's definitely right so let's let's to construct this whole thing your self described humor engineer and you write books on how to master humor make jokes funny and sing care how you are in this wonderful hero of 2020 do you see that the demand for

humor is actually rising against a backdrop of the complete mass of everything or not really. know it it absolutely is and i think part of the reason is you know with. you know more circulate distance to go on much more things on earth they're realizing how much humor that they used to have in their life that they are now missing because you no longer you know always conversation with your coworkers you don't have to meet up with friends and even with strangers if you are wearing a mask you don't see this smiles in the last on their faces and so now more than ever isn't it really into how we use humor not just for our own kind of amusement but also to do things like manage stress and built relationships and you know all the additional good it's you are you've sat in a. top that humor has to be positive and inclusive but here's the thing isn't humor supposed to be just funny 1st and foremost sin is that that like the most important

thing in humor and that everything else writes a day so that's true for comedy comedy is the goal is to make people laugh but we think is a little bit more broad than comedy and includes things that are funny but it can also be something that's just a little bit different or something that's a little bit silly where the goal is on usenet and our focus at least you know as a humor engineer in my organization is in humor that you're supposed to be funny or interested in humor that is transformation what you are that is encouraging humor that it's. all me in some ways and ultimately humor that works out it's not just about me people laugh but it's about getting some type of better interest salt which more inclusive forms of humor certainly help with the workplace as opposed to more forms of humor so we're ok but if we focus a little on comedy and i'm saying lake stand and you know this late night shows and

. even the you know the comedy is that we see coming out if if i have a really good joke let's say which is really nasty at the same time should i never let it sit in light of the day just because in my own really be positive or inclusive at all. well you can certainly with your stand up comedian then you let it go right tell that on a comedy stage next intention it don't really make and it hold the line a little bit make you laugh you can also do it with friends as a way to create a little bit it could parse in some work you know if they share your similar sense of humor like some groups like emergency curtains under it so police officers firefighters etc late sometimes tend to have a little bit of a darker sense of humor as a way to manage the kind of difficulties that they're going through the stuff that they see and deal with every single day which is understandable but if your a leader of an organization or you're in a company or you want to build is that if relationships with people that are going

to change a type of humor that usenet is where i'll tamil it comes down to is what's your goal with you or. your engineer so we don't think of humor just as a game for fun but how does it help us to solve challenges either at home or in the workplace and depending on the challenge if you want to solve it might change the type of humor that you may use and ellen job how many feminists is it take to change a light finance series that's not funny and it's my impression that humor has waned having a very hard time lately whenever you want to crack a joke you should really think twice. you know should i say this should i not say these i'm going to hurt anyone is anyone going to be offended by this why has everybody become so sensitive old or her or what is to blame. now it's a detonating question and i think you know as your is always involving the humor that was popular in the you know fades and sixty's what we own by bill is humor is

more slapstick it was more physical days that all the more kind of jokes like clear kind of set jokes of set up and punch lines that evolved into more storytelling and authenticity with storytelling and i see i think we're just seeing it continue evolution where some of the things that we used to joke about old really were saying well maybe it's not actually ok to joke about that made that you know what you think of is is something is a lighthearted joke is really difficult for someone who's had to experience that for a long period of time and so i think it's just a cultural change will continue to change will continue all that and part of being in a debt humorist or comedian is adapting to the times and still finding the line and understanding when it's appropriate 'd to cross a line when it's not and the work place. usually not appropriate across the line except for a very some specific scenarios but in a comedy club that's a little bit you know different so getting those back to where you're using next

year and what you want to achieve with well i've been talking a lot to comedians a lot especially standup comedians because i'm writing a book about humor 2020. and i mean humor really if we're honest with each other especially in standup comedy with late night shows it gets really funny when making fun of something serious right whether it's politics or sometimes in some kind of gas or tragedy how does comedy survive if it's become too dangerous to be dangers in your jokes i mean a situation where you can't laugh at religion gender skin color sexual orientation what is there left to laugh at. well i think i am a complete idiot raising especially in the context of comedy that nothing is off limits i don't even say it is subject you can't joke about it because they use it as a and b. decider but i think out a joke about it is is changing because you know the fundamental kind of concept

you're structure with and specifically it instead of a set up and so a set of raising expectations analysts nurse brain and any punchline raise that expectation in some way part of the reason for evolution and comedy is that for many years honestly your set up was maybe aggressive towards this particular group and then the punch line changes but you can see you are going this very well i would say even dave chappelle continues to kind of gross that line because of how he does a set of them punch line through that are you know the joke is when you really kind of carson look at it breaking it down you're realizing that are he has changed where is he talking about asserts like specific route a lot of times it's our it isn't actually next root it's society's perspective around it and so becomes how you joke about that particular subject i completely agree with you that i don't think any subject should be off limits and i feel like this whole thing with humor has taken unprecedented scale because if you look at

what happened with shirley of bill and then just recently a schoolteacher was beheaded in france for referring to shall have the cartoons which you can't get over the top on purpose i mean no doubt about that i mean i grew up in paris and you know there irreverence in humor would annoy me a lot because i'm not used to that but at this point like it's unclear whether it's a cartoonist on our side satirist and humor in general that has sort of protected in a full station like this or do we have to set certain boundaries for humor so that it doesn't provoke outrage that we've seen and seen my reaction have. swap because last year it was like yeah it was like over the top and then this is here when i'm saying continuation of days and to be had even though i don't like that humor i feel like the menu and michael i feel like we should send out for humor to you know what i mean some having let us know cognitive dissonance inside of me when i write

i agree with that radiation that that best lines between it to be because you know things like. this idea of freedom of speech or freedom of expression doesn't mean freedom from consequences but at the same time someone making a joke the result should not be them losing their legs and so i think there's probably islands of both and i would say it's probably more on the scale of people's reaction because you know has a as a communicator you have to decide if someone is offended by something that's data for you kind of take in to mine you may not have made to stand by what you said but understanding why might this have been offensive and is that what i want to do is ok with me so i think the answer is a little bit on both sides and people being willing to take responsibility and recognize that whatever your individual to use are might not be the same as someone else's and where is that kind of common ground that we can meet

a great difference doubt you murder can help us get there and so that's the other understanding is that you know there's a difference again between a set and punchline of a specific thing and others you hear that we might use in depending on the situation which points the most appropriate obvious get to what we want to get to along or like a more general question but outweighs wonder about it lately what is too much for humor exactly i mean here decides to boundaries of what one can joke about and how . well it's as if it's a very difficult question to do the interesting thing about comedy is that it is both very simple and very hard and the question of rock is something funny the answer is did it make someone laugh and so it's funny to one person to me very different than what's funny to another person and so each individual person is kind of deciding that and then what you're noticing in this is a particular challenge and i think hey we can all maybe take us on is cancel art culture where it's like some people are then starting to get upset about jokes or

things that they never even actually heard or ever experience you are even really offended by but suddenly they're the homes it's kind of mob mentality where it's like oh everyone is kind of jumping on board with this one person so less like completely like ruin everything that they have into like the i think that's too extreme and it's certainly how people respond to it so you had this in the u.s. where someone was written you know and a writer was fired for it s n l he came out some of his old jokes were actually very culturally appropriate and his reaction wasn't about apology it wasn't about like hey you know i didn't mean to offend as morally but i'm a comedian this is what i'm supposed to do and the problem is you know sometimes people use a joke as an excuse as you say offensive things and it's not really actually a joke and so you know that satisfying lynette balloting it's a case by case basis but it is what you as an individual do and i think we all use that hello or should we cry you know a little bit earlier but it's those individual decisions that people are made.

going to take a short break right now when we're balco continue talking to. them or engineer and best selling author talking about how humor is transformed this day stay with us. l. look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. i robot must obey the orders given by human beings except where such conflicts with the 1st law show your identification for should be very careful about official intelligence

at the point is to create trust. there is nothing with artificial intelligence summoning the demon. the robot must protect its own existence or. continuity or change this is what is being asked when considering a potential foreign policy trump made a point to undo obama's legacy will be the same trumps like just or is this all only oracle continuity drives foreign policy not the occupant in the old little.

well we're back with andrew tara vinge humor engineer bestselling writer we're talking about what's happening to humor in 2020 and it's really fun it's a nominee when i look at the united states because i see all these late night show hosts which i adore and they're like vibrant smart. intelligent really funny hilarious guys and for the past year and a half or so i just see how they're stuck because they really can't joke about anything and the thing that people in america are even more sensitive than anywhere else in the world on the topics that are like you know feminism and matters and all of that that's going on like the whole new ask fix right that is our reality becoming our reality and so what they're left with is trump if you joke about anything else you get you know you're fired or taken off air and but you can joke

about trump because that's ok and that helps the country well it's for trump because he has become so popular because of that degree. weiser a very common news perspective as well as just the sheer amount of. wrong has. you know not. just for us and what people talk about it sunday night constantly like it nice growing up for me in the u.s. i didn't think about the president and our country and all that off i go and certainly but you know over the last 40 years there probably went freelance every single day has come up in some shape or form whether that's a news story or eos a comedienne saying a certain day or that you know perspective and so it is interesting that it is creating a lot more awareness and you know just that person being advised i think for me why me and are talking about it is because when everyone else's song so it's kind of an

insecurity a challenge and you're seeing an interesting creative evolution of comedy both through because of subject matter because of things like holidays and technology late be a part of sarah who wears rise misbehave some day and do things a little bit differently right and he has gained kind of that lindsey and they were tight and if that was interesting of winning games become more a strain on what you used to write when this is breaking norms not necessarily in a good way it becomes hard to create a satire he says the national sas hiring right isn't as extreme as like the reality is and so sarah who more adapted that by just saying i'm going to change any word on i'm going to pretend like this person is saying something else and is going to say it word for word it has a different kind of performance to it and so you are seeing kind of unique taste and that's a surprise right that's rating. given expectation and rating that it's an issue and i think that's the evolution that we're we're seeing but i completely agree that

there is tremendous value in saying ok let's talk about something else we is comediennes or commentators or entertainers etc and help to shape what is what are you saying on and i say i made those people i'm allowing them to kind of giving them that platform going to bury it alls. i want to elaborate a bit about what i've just sat i was talking recently to frederick better than the novelist and his last novel is actually about the humor and he told me that the importance of comedy these days can we explain by the side that politicians cannot really handle the situation well enough. clowns themselves and it's to comedians who are becoming the voice of public opinion who are influencing this opinion just as well do you agree. really i mean there is there's certainly even for the past 1020 years or so people kind of considered comedians as philosophers are they are

the people who are standing and inordinate amount of faking about a subject and i mean what's the way to communicate is that people actually listen and i think that's true because it easy this and other places around the world it sure can be a great way to speak routes of power where you can take a little bit of the edge off of something that's actually true that you want to say by adding a little bit of the humor component and a lot of truth is said in jest where it's like you say a little bit of joke but people are like oh ashley. why is that why is that what i hate you're also seeing it so you're seeing that in by a couple of individuals but you're also seeing kind of almost this. is all it's use of humor that i don't think that we've always seen through things like mena culture mediated now is arising and it's been used by you know people on the left and right he said we're going back all it takes bloomberg campaign in the united states isn't necessarily we're right it was like we're going to hire

a bunch of white young 20 somethings to create a bunch of means to try to create and get this message out there and so you are seeing this change in terms of how some of that humor is executed but in general comedians yes i think are the great philosophers and you're seeing it like you said in the news programs a lot of people aren't getting their news necessarily at least younger people aren't getting any and they're getting it from every now and that l.a. show they're getting it from these comedians who are going more comedic shows and brainy on and part of the you know continuing my conversation with bag but they're here also compare the current situation and the role comedians playing are alive today with the orchestra of titanic which continues to play while the ship is sinking. ship going down as well and since the comedians cannot really stop it from going on there is laughing about it they only way to accept the inevitable. her or i don't add big laughter laughing about something is a great way to make it so that it doesn't have control over you and it is actually

one of the you know the disadvantage is to strictly how many human humor and some sense is that you're relieved tension and so that can be a great thing when you're very stressed but it can also lead to a lack of. wind not kind of kept in check and if you think about it if you think back to kind of the traditional days of being monarchy back in a day they intentionally installed in jest your court jester because that was someone who could. make everyone laugh relieve some of the tension so that they didn't revolt you see the same thing initially the initial reason for karbala and some countries was to say ok a remedy. in crackdown on people pro or 11 months of the year or if you this one month of celebration so you get out all of that asian anxiety and everything that in that moment so that you don't rise to power and so i think that's the

disadvantage and so you have to understand that getting those back to being older more care about the purpose of our humor not just allowing it to be me and going down with the ship and like a real laugh all this is all to do but i believe they have that next step and that's why we focus on humor is that it doesn't stop at hey you made you laugh and now that you're laughing you're listening and what do we do with your attention it is often to say hey we made you laugh can buy or can we implant kind of the idea of a cd maybe we can all be a little bit better maybe we could all be a little bit more compassionate about each other or you see this also with. last week's night in john oliver is that every episode ends with some type of small. you know go if you are to this saying or whatever so you're starting to see is evolution where people are saying ok now that what you it's. when we try to transport that to some type of change. you know since it is much easier to lothar about your president or environment and kind of shrug it off behind

a good joke than actually to get up and do something about it can humor and joking about everything actually to complacency satele isn't exactly and so that's that's a component of complacency is a great way to put it right if we really too much of that tension and that's where the purpose of that humor right to go that additional next step if you want to create change and you've seen that it is. so there's 3 believe me this story comes from serbia but it's a situation where the crew cut off or and maybe intentionally use humor not as a way to kind of just say let's release. i think as again we're told we're getting people to come into kind of this navy i'll standing up to it and they use humor to kind of hold on of the danger but they made it sometimes that more people would be wanting to fall because they had this where it's like ok yes if you're going to you know protest against something or if they're just kind of out there standing but

instead if you had a humor component to it and you say we know this is is not to say that the situation isn't serious well that with a little bit of fun we can make it is actually more meaningful more impactful because we'll get more people involved because. entertainment. you know i think we're going through the worst crisis might experience during our lifetime like saying how this pandemic is transforming actually everything from the way we communicate war or our values do you know i guess is forming bumiller as well i mean will it be different from what it was before 2020 and if yes how. i don't get it will i mean it humor is just like so many things is always a ball game and i think culturally it's a logging and i think the the overlying rights and optimist i think by

my grandmother is like the most optimistic person that i've ever met and i think that kind of like holds true for me some oystermen about what is a silver lining in this case part of it is the elevation of the status of humor i think like i said earlier because we're not having the same forms of release that we used to have if you think about you know we've got more stress than ever people are working harder than they probably used to or they're unemployed but they're going in a virtual space a lot of times if they're working from home they don't have that work life kind of separation it feels more like work life survival and you know you're constantly working barely ever turning it off except to see have this increase in stress not meeting greeting with the pen and everything else flying on but normally loads are leaving that stress are gone and you know you can't go to sporting events at least like you used to even going out to get a drink with friends is now either a lot more stressful or actually impossible to do everything that you used to do is harder even if you want to do in 18 hours thousands of people out on the hiking

trails that it's a one day meeting kind and you and people are recognizing oh the day that i'm missing i don't think that they're quite there yet but i think the long term untapped people seek oh do me or if you are my life i need more levity and how do i use it and you'll continue to see this kind of democratization of individuals using humor will be less of a focus of your and they're still going to be entertainers and comediennes but i think more people say. you know or the like when they used to say like oh i can never do that or i'm not funny my hope my goal is that more and more people recognize that oh you know this is a skill it is gillet i can and should learn. and here is how i'm going to bring in my own personal style i'm not going to necessarily be a stand up comedian but maybe i'm going to share more stories maybe i'm going to do some maybe i did use some dames just a day for myself so that i am able to deal with the challenges that we have every

single day andrew thank you so much for this wonderful insight about. humor 20 twentieth's transforming. it's been really interesting talking to you know we shelled a good luck when they were thing and i said well it was fantastic talking to you and love clearly done your research and have a lot of great insight of where it is the life i will say that you know for me again our focus is out of we as individuals. ownership kind of our own situation and use humor to help the rich but i also love this conversation on the macro view of where it's going so i appreciate it the chance to have the conversation thank you so much andrea stay safe. maybe you could.

join me every thursday on the alex salmond chill and i'll be speaking to us of the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you. seemed wrong. to me. to shape out just to come get educated and engage with equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart. just to look for common ground.

thank you hang on make here you make happy a way. to. get bored if you know the meaning of causal goodness it is the it takes you to. give me a hand. some kind of fact. that can handle the job sentiment as a young sort of that's going to need to get out and. i don't. like. what's going to come back i'm no one and all that well but of course that's a lot about your. part of. me to.

a folks next up one dennis miller plus one i being that it's miller we're going to talk to marianna van seller i know you're saying. brilliant show that you're doing on national geographic it's called trafficked with men are marianna bound sellers and it sort of follows the silk road of contraband but know how one pimping guns she follows the trip chick on it it's pretty fascinating very dangerous pretty invigorating and i will talk to marianna benz eller about it right after this on going to smell it plus why. folks welcome to dennis miller plus one this will be fascinating i love the concept

of the show our guests isn't best to get to. that's why.