seamer interior and best selling author. and guitar of in him are engineer and bestselling writer great to have you with us today what a time to talk about humor. absolutely it's one of those times where people are like. is it ok to talk about humor and in fact it's one of those things where it's definitely needed all right so let's let's to construct this whole thing here ourselves described humor engineer and you write books on how to master humor make jokes funny and saying gary how you're in this wonderful hero of 2020 do you see that the demand for humor is actually rising against the backdrop of the complete mass of everything or not really. know it it absolutely is and i think part of the reason is you know with people being you know more social a distance and going much more things on earth they're realizing how much humor that they used to have in their life that they're now missing because you no longer

you know all a conversation with your coworkers you don't have those and you want to meet up with friends and even with strangers and people are wearing a mask you don't see this smiles in the last on their faces and so i think now more than ever isn't it really into how we use humor not just for our own kind of amusement but also to do things like manage stress in built relationships and you know all the additional good it's you are you've sat in attack talk that humor has to be positive and inclusive but here's the thing isn't humor supposed to be just funny 1st and foremost sins that that like the most important thing in humor and then everything else. so that's true for comedy comedy is the goal is to make people laugh but we think is a little bit more broad than comedy it includes things that are funny but it can also be something that's just a little bit different or something is a little bit silly where the goal is. and our focus at least you know as

a humor engineer at my organization is in humor that it's just supposed to be funny who are interested in humor that is transformation or humor that is encouraging humor that it's inspiring humor that all may in some ways and ultimately humor that work said it's not just about making people laugh but it's about getting some type of better interest salt which caused more inclusive forms of humor certainly help with no workplace as opposed to more native forms of humor so we're ok but if we focus a little on comity and i'm saying lake stand and you know this late night shows and . even the you know the comedy is that we see coming out if if i have a really good joke let's say which is really nasty at the same time should i never let it sit in light of the day just because in my own really being positive or inclusive at all when you can certainly with your stand up comedian then you let it go tell that on a comedy stage and next intention it don't really make it hold the line

a little bit make you laugh you can also do it with friends as a way to create a little bit of catharsis or you know they share your similar sense of humor like some groups like emergency purchase under it so police officers firefighters except really sometimes tend to have a little bit of a darker sense of humor as a way to manage the kind of difficulties that they're going through the stuff that they see and deal with every single day which is understandable but if your a leader of an organization or you're in a company or you want to get it relationships with people that are going to change the type of humor that you usenet where all alternately comes down to is what's your goal with you or. your engineer so we don't think of humor just as a name for fun but how does it help us to solve challenges either at holme or in the workplace and depending on the challenge if you want to solve it might change the type of humor that you want to use. and knowledge of how many feminists does it

take to change a light while financer is that's not funny and it's my impression that humor has having a very hard time lately whenever you want to crack a joke you should really think twice. you know should i say this should i not say these i'm going to hurt anyone is anyone going to be offended by this why has everybody become so sensitive. or what is to blame. now it's a good ass name question and i think you know this year is always involving the humor that was popular in the you know sadie's and sixty's what we own by delicious humor is more slapstick it was more physical days that all day and more kind of jokes like clear kind of set jokes of set up and punch lines that evolved into more storytelling and authenticity with storytelling and i see i think we're just seeing it continue evolution where some of the things that we used to joke about old really were saying well maybe it's not actually ok to joke about that made that you

know what you think of is is something is a lighthearted joke is really difficult for someone who's had experience that for a long period of time and so i think he's just a cultural change will continue to change will continue all that and part of being in a debt humorist or comedian is adapting to the times and still finding the line and understanding when it's appropriate 'd to cross that line when it's not and the work place it's usually not appropriate across the line except for a very some specific scenarios but in a comedy club that's a little bit you know different so getting those back to where you're using next year and what you want to achieve with well i've been talking a lot to comedians a lot especially standup comedians because i'm writing a book about humor 2020. and i mean humor really if we're honest with each other especially in standup comedy with late night shows it gets really funny when making fun of something serious right whether it's politics or sometimes in some

kind of gas or tragedy how does comedy survive if it's become too dangerous to be dangers in your jokes i mean a situation where you can't laugh at religion gender skin color sexual orientation what is there left to laugh at. well i think that i am a complete idiot raising especially in the context of comedy that nothing is off limits i don't even say you can't joke about it because they use it as a and b. decider but i think out a joke about it is change because you know the fundamental kind of concept you're structure with and specifically it instead of a set up and so a set of raising expectations analysts nurse brain and then the punch line raise that expectation in some way part of the reason for evolution in comedy is that for many years honestly your set up was maybe aggressive towards this particular group and then the punchline. but you can see you are going this very well i would say

even dave chappelle continues to kind of gross that line because of how he does a set of them punch line through that are you know the joke is when you really kind of carson and look at it breaking it down you're realizing that are he has change where if he's talking about asserts like specific group a lot of times it's our it isn't actually next root it's society's perspective around it and so becomes how you joke about that particular subject i completely agree with you that i don't think any subject should be off limits and i still like this whole thing with humor has taken unprecedented scale because if you look at what happened with shirley of bill and then just recently a schoolteacher was beheaded in france for referring to shall we have the cartoons which you can't get over the top on purpose i mean that no doubt about that i mean i grew up in paris and you know there irreverence in humor would annoy me a lot because i'm not used to that but at this point like it's unclear whether it's

a cartoonist on our side satirist and humor in general that has sort of protected in a full station like this or do we have to set certain boundaries for humor so that it doesn't provoke outrage that we've seen and seen my reaction have. swop because last year it was like yeah it was like over the top and then this is here when i'm saying continuation of days in the beheading even though i don't like that humor i feel like the menu and michael i feel like we should send out for humor to you know what i mean some having let us know cognitive dissonance inside of me when i write i agree with that radiation that that best lines between it to be because you know things like. this idea of freedom of speech or freedom of expression doesn't mean freedom from consequences but at the same time someone making a joke the result should not be them losing their legs and so i think there's

probably islands of both and i would say it's probably more on the scale of people's reaction because you know it has a as a communicator you have to decide if someone is offended by something that's data for you kind of take in to mine you may not have made to stand by what you said but understanding why might this have been offensive and is that what i want to do is ok with me so i think the answer is a little bit on both sides and people being willing to take responsibility and recognize that whatever your individual to use are might not be the same as someone else's and where is that kind of common ground that we can meet a great difference doubt you myrt can help us get there and so that's the other understanding is that you know there's a difference again between a set and punchline of a specific thing and others you hear that we might use and depending on the situation which forms the most appropriate obvious get to what we want to get too long or like a more general question but outweighs wonder about it lately what is too much for humor exactly i mean who decides to boundaries of what one can joke about and how.

well it's as if it's a very difficult question to do the interesting thing about comedy is that it is both very simple and very hard and the question of iraq is something funny the answer is make someone laugh and so it's funny to one person to me very different than what's funny to another person and so each individual person is kind of deciding that and then what you're noticing in this is a particular challenge and i think hey we can all maybe take us on is cancel art culture where it's like some people are then starting to get upset about jokes or things that they never even actually heard or ever experience are even really offended by and suddenly they're be homes it's kind of mob mentality where it's like oh everyone is going to jumping on board with this one person so less like completely like ruin everything that they're having to like the i think that's too extreme and it's certainly how people respond to it so you had this in the u.s. where someone was written you know and a writer was fired for it s

n l he came out some of his old jokes were actually very culturally appropriate and his reaction wasn't about apology it wasn't about like hey you know i didn't mean to and as more like but i'm a comedian this is what i'm supposed to do and the problem is you know sometimes people use a joke as an excuse as you say offensive things and it's not really actually a joke and so you know that satisfying lynette balloting it's a case by case basis but it is what you as an individual do and i think we all use that hello or should we get a little bit earlier but it's those individual decisions that people are may. going to take a short break right now where balco continue talking to. him or engineer and bestselling author talking about how humor is transformed to this day stay with us.

join me every thursday on the alex i'm i'm sure and i was reading to give us the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. chose seemed wrong all right old old just don't call. me old yet to shape out these days to come to the ticket and in game trade because betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart when you choose to look for common ground.

thank you.

well we're back with andrew tara vinge humor engineer bestselling writer we're talking about what's happening to humor in 2020 and it's really fun it's a nominee when i look at the united states because i see all these late night show hosts which i adore and they're like vibrant smart. intelligent really funny hilarious guys and for the past year and a half or so i just see how they're stuck because they really can joke about anything and they think people in america are even more sensitive than anywhere

else in the world on the topics that are like you know feminism and black matters and all of that that's going on like the whole new ask fix right that is our reality becoming our reality and so what they're left with is trump if you joke about anything else you get you know you're fired or taken off air and but you can joke about trump because that's ok and that helps the country well it's for trump because he has become so popular because of that degree. why certainly a very common news perspective as well as just the sheer amount of courage. drawing has. you know not. just for us and what people talk about it sunday night constantly like at least growing up for me in the u.s. i didn't think about the president our country and all that often i go and certainly but you know over the last 40 years there probably went for us every single day has come up in some shape or form whether that's a news story or eos

a comedienne saying a certain day or that you know perspective and so it is interesting that it is creating a lot more awareness and you know just that person being advised i think for me why me and are talking about it is because when everyone else so it's kind of an insecurity a challenge and you're seeing an interesting creative evolution of comedy both through because of subject matter because things like holidays and technology might be part of sarah who wears rise misbehave some day and do things a little bit differently right he has gained kind of that lindsey and they were tight and if that was interesting of winning games become more a strain on what you used to write when this is breaking norms not necessarily in a good way it becomes hard to create a satire he says the national sas hiring right isn't as extreme as like the reality is and so scary humor and add to that by just saying i'm going to change any word

on i'm going to pretend like this person is saying something else and is going to say it word for word it has a different kind of performance to it and so you are seeing kind of unique taste and that's a surprise right that's rating transcend given expectation and rating next issue and i hate bats the evolution that were saying but i completely agree that there is tremendous as you can say ok let's talk about something else we is comediennes or commentators or entertainers etc are in hell to shape what is what are you saying on and i say i made those people i'm allowing them to kind of giving them that platform going to bury it alls. i want an elaborate debate about what i've just sat i was talking recently to frederick better than the novelist and his last novel is actually about the humor and he told me that the importance of comedy these days can we explain by the fact that politicians cannot really handle the situation well enough. clowns themselves and it's to comedians who are becoming the voice of

public opinion who are influencing this opinion just as well do you agree. really i mean there is there's certainly even for the past 1020 years or so people kind of considered comedians as philosophers are they are the people who are standing and inordinate amount of faking about a subject and i mean what's the way to communicate is that people actually listen and i think that's true because and you see this and other places around the world it sure can be a great way to speak roots of power where you can take a little bit of the edge off of something that's actually true that you want to say by adding a little bit of a humor component and a lot of truth is said in jest where it's like you say a little bit of joke but people are like oh ashley. why is that why is that what i hate you're also seeing it so you're seeing that in by a couple of individuals but you're also seeing kind of almost this. is all its use

of humor that i don't think that we've always seen through things like mena culture mediated now is arising and used by you know people on the left and the right a center going back all it takes bloomberg campaign in the united states isn't necessarily we're right it was like we're going to hire a bunch of white young 20 somethings to create a bunch of means to try to create and get this message out there and so you are seeing this change in terms of how some of that humor is executed but in general comedians yes i think are they're great philosophers and you're seeing it like you said in the news programs a lot of people aren't getting their news necessarily at least younger people aren't getting any c.n.n. and they're getting it from every now and that l.a. show they're getting it from these comedians who are going more comedic shows and brainy on in perspective you know continuing my conversation with bag but they're here also compare the current situation and the role comedians playing are alive today with the orchestra of titanic which continues to play while the ship is

sinking. ship going down as well and since the comedians cannot really stop it from going on there is laughing about it they only way to accept the inevitable. or i don't i think that laughter laughing about something is a great way to make it so that it doesn't have control over you and it's actually one of the you know the disadvantage is to strictly how many human humor and some sense is that you're relieved tension and so that can be a great thing when you're very stressed but it can also lead to a lack of. wind not kind of kept in check and if you think about it if you think back to kind of the traditional days of being monarchy back in a day they intentionally it has gotten jester court jester because that was someone who could. make everyone laugh relieve some of the tension so that they didn't rebel you see the same thing initially the initial reason for karbala and some

countries was to say ok hey randy. and crack down on people pro or 11 months of the year or if you this one month of celebration so you get out all of that asian anxiety and everything that in that moment so they don't rise to power and so i think that's the disadvantage and so you have to understand that getting us back to being older more scared all the purpose of our humor not just allowing it to be me and going down with the ship and like a real laugh all this is all to do but i believe that he had that next step and that's why we focus on humor is that it doesn't stop at hey you made you laugh and now that you're laughing you're listening and what do we do with your attention it is often to say hey we made you laugh can buy or can we implant kind of the idea of a cd maybe we can all be a little bit better maybe we could all be a little bit more compassionate about each other or you see this also with the last week's night in john oliver is that every episode ends with some type of small hard

to you know go if you are to this day or whatever so you're starting to see his evolution where people are saying ok now that what you it's not a guy when he's trying to transport that to some type of change. you know since it is much easier to lothar about your president or environment and kind of shrug it off behind a good joke than actually to get up and do something about it can humor and joking about everything actually to complacency satele isn't exactly and so that's that's a component of complacency is a great way to put it right if we really too much of that tension and that's where the purpose of that humor right to go then additional next step if you want to create change and you've seen that it is. so there's a believe. the story comes from serbia but it's a situation where the crew cut off or and maybe intentionally or not as a way to kind of just say let's release 10 as

a game we're told we're getting people to come into kind of this 90 i'll standing up to it and they use humor to kind of hold on of the danger but they made it sometimes that more people would be wanting to evolve because they had this where it's like ok yes if you're going to you know protest against something or if they're just kind of out there standing but instead if you had a humor component to it and you say we know this is is not to say that the situation isn't serious well that with a little bit of fun we can make it is actually more meaningful more impactful because we'll get more people involved because. entertainment. you know i think we're going through the worst crisis mayor us might experience during our lifetime like saying how this pandemic is transforming actually everything from the way we communicate war or our values do you know i get since forming bumiller as well i mean will it be different from what it was before 2020

and if yes how. and i think that it will i mean it humor is just like so many things is always a ball game and i think culturally it's all being i think the the overlying rights and optimist i think by the way because my grandmother is like the most optimistic person that i've ever met and i think that kind of like holds true for me some always kind of thinking about what is a silver lining in this case part of it is the elevation of the status of humor i think like i said earlier because we're not having the same forms of release that we used to have if you think about you know we've got more stress than ever people are working harder than they probably used to or they're unemployed but they're going in a virtual space a lot of times if they're working from home they don't have that work life kind of separation it feels more like work life survival and you know you're constantly working barely ever turning it off except to see have this increase in stress not meeting greeting with a pen and everything else flying on but normally loads are leaving that stress are

gone and you know you can't go to sporting events at least like he used to even going out to get a drink with friends is now either a lot more stressful or actually impossible to do everything that you used to do is harder even if you want to go making out there's thousands of people out on the hiking trails that it's the one thing that you kind of view as so people are recognizing oh the day that i'm missing i don't think that they're quite there yet but i think the long term untapped what people seek. me or if you're in my life i need more levity and how do i use it and it will continue to see this kind of democratization of individuals using humor will be less of a focus of oh you're and there's still going to be entertainers and comediennes but i think more people say. you know or the like when they used to say like oh i can never do that or i'm not funny my hope my goal is more and more people recognize and really this is

a skill it is gillet i can and should learn. and here is how i'm going to bring in my own personal style i'm not going to necessarily be a stand up comedian but maybe i'm going to share more stories maybe i'm going to do some maybe i did use some dames just a day for myself so that i am able to deal with the challenges that we have every single day andrew thank you so much for this wonderful insight about. humor 20 twentieth's transforming. it's been really interesting talking to you know we seldom good luck when they were thing and you know it was fantastic talking and you have. clearly done your research and have a lot of great insight of where it is a life i will say that you know for me and again our focus is out of we as individuals. ownership kind of our own situation and use humor to help improve it but i also love this conversation on the macro view of where it's going so i appreciate it the chance to have a conversation thank you so much and you stay safe. maybe you kate.

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