and the new liberal order. will be marriage. i'm afshin rattansi we're going underground 24 hours ahead of the u.s. presidential election deadline for lawsuits and final results in states already aligned with joe biden as the sun sets on an administration with more covert debts than lives lost in world war one coming up in the show after another assassination with a rainy an official we investigate iran's so-called shadow commander who worked with u.s. troops to rid the middle east of al qaeda and i said i don't need to be assassinated by donald trump in a state sponsored murder that to this day goes on condemned by britain and the european union and rock royalty roger waters talks the future of imperialism under president biden from latin america to palestine through the prism of the crimes

revealed by julian assange all the more coming up in today's going on the ground 1st on like us president obama donald trump has been likely to finish his time as u.s. president without starting any new wars that's despite new york times sources claiming he wanted to bomb middle east oil superpower iran after the defeat at the polls he doesn't recognize nevertheless before the killing of iranian scientists most in fact reside there in the past few days came trumps assassination of iranian soldier cause i'm still a money credited with coordinating with u.s. troops to defeat i stash and al qaeda as reporters have documents pertaining to an iran saudi arabia peace deal when he was murdered joining me now from new york in the usa is the biographer of shadow come on to customs for their money as easy as thanks so much for coming on before we even get to the shuttle commander what have you made of the fact that you. said it was criminal but didn't actually came out come out right and even condemn the assassination of this iranian professor most of the factories that. i think the last 4 years we've seen them evil has really struggled to have an independent policy of the united states regards it as r.c.

right frankly so i guess they're just they're also waiting for for biden to come in but i mean the assassination was a pro-creation that i don't think iran is going to buy into i think they're going to bait for biden to come on and hope for a different policy in iraq i know the book ends before the perceived retaliation from iran for the assassination of kusum silly money but surprise it hasn't been any immediate retaliation for the for the latest assassination. no it's not surprising that because i think and i think other said iran will act as a game more quickly and bait for biden to come. to act before that would would be almost suicidal right i mean if anything though there bori you know. what i do in what is a month and a half left of his presidency so we're going to be very careful in iraq and other places that to make sure not to get into complications that's definitely what the majority i think the iraqi leadership and the surfer mia harmony would lots you say

that the killing of kasim surname money by donald trump is comparable to the $943.00 u.s. assassination of japanese admiral yamamoto why was it such an important matter. what is the 1st time since then in the us killed a leading general of the of another country frankly been a difference that he was actually of course in a war with japan but he was not in any war with iraq so i mean it's something to assess and heads of terrorist groups but to cube a leading general or a to be general of another country is. you know it's i mean it's something that has been as you pointed at as i think many other people is of course illegal equipped to trash the law but it's also just one president whatever you want and it's a valid unix make joe mind to restore the reputation of kusum so they money as someone who for with the u.s. troops against isis day has an al qaeda. presence by and has got to do that. but i

do but i do think it is going to try diplomacy with iran and you know if you try to tell us as i tried to say in the book i mean the mistake that people often make is and you know iran can be complex because they listen to the and the american ism of the islamic republic and its leadership and making of this means that they won't be able to negotiate with the rest of the us it's not true it's never been true as you pointed out as been many instances of not just i wish issue but military collaboration in afghanistan iraq and other places not to many americans are given we are told about that in the media just set the scene like you did in the book of where qassam silly money came from you talk about this province of come on in the 170 s. halfway between amazing western hellbent sophistication and an ancient past. well so that money came from tribal areas of southern iran of cameron province my own mother's come on so i had a personal connection to the story but like what is going to be important troy his

career was that he came he had this tribal past me was not from the urban centers or the fact his hometown was a good couple 100 kilometers away from care moneymen a sort of the provincial center there and that gave him. that underdog feeling if you will in cairo but also an understanding of how tribal relations can work that really later helped him be able to do what he did in afghanistan in iraq and out of obviously the i.r.g.c. is a a unit or a regiment or you going to tell me what it is it's often used in the media there in syria they're here they're there tell me about the birth of enter now you know way when it was born of even emilia we including you know marxist like ali cherie r.t. as as you put your aim in this book. he was a generally inspiration sort of for the revolution as someone you know lives on

what try to mix everything on islam on marxism but you know i g c was founded after the revolution in that in 79 and the basic idea was be have you have just had a revolution before the islamic republic and even heritage the army khomeini was very clear that you don't want to spend the army a lot what's all the more radical elements want to do but the question was the army and this it's just in this state are not going to serve their evolution and loyally because they are inheritors in the past every revolution in history has had to deal with this issue so what the iranian revolution 79 and i mean it either should did was that they helped the formation of this independent guard the i.r.g.c. who has number loans to become really the main military force of iran and that meant a konami force really controls much of the iranian economy and of course it's been the personal to course on guard of michael holland who followed his policies in the region but what's interesting about i you see is that he doesn't use the name iran in syrian title and that's one reason i say seeds sees itself as 10 islamic and

international and also its leaders are very clear that they don't see themselves as saudi bomb by the iranian constitution but they believe the ideal to defend the revolution and the ideals of since the 9 am comes 1st not that they always practice this because you know as many other big bloated military organization there's a lot of friction. yet there's a there's a lot of shortcomings on it. well yeah and if anyone thinks they are east taken to have their eyebrows raised by the allegation in your book that israel and iran against iraq have to tell you an israeli leader iran would barak have terminated the interview when i told him about israeli involvement in financing a mass had just tell me how israel came to be supplying weapons to iran. yes ali this is a you know one of those crazy or necessary but in the 1980 s. and the context of the caucus of the iran iraq war it's trial was more interested in the weakening saddam affectively which it so at the bigger tread is trying to

have had good relations with iran before the revolution with the shah of iran and it sort of had a belief that well the iran they're doing is islamised phase but they'll get will go out of it that sort of one of the beliefs of many israeli had and that's why yes they impact israel armed iran in the war with iraq and they even you know may be there were there was a star of david on the on some of the military equipment used the front which caused surprise by a lot of him on a lot of iranian soldiers who are you know who knew they were very strong and things really are now you know there's been a lot of criticism for years about the neoliberal turn of economics in iran making the rich richer in iran and the poor poorer in this book you say the i.r.g.c. has been relatively immune and benefited from a kind of an a keynesian militarism in terms of economic policy. yes will be i

r g c well it has been immune and it has driven and it's an interesting it's an it's and it's an interesting point but from the ninety's as iran. basically what happened the night in that is after the death of michael holland in $89.00 is that the iranian leadership decides that it wants to be kept in effect so it goes through the catalyst for the 1st 10 years of evolution they're not short they are people who are very much in the socialist side they want to nationalize everything you want to build having the strand or those who prioritize private relations in that there your sense they direction has been defended toward capitalism and that has been this generally are you see as as a help to but not unlike china and some other countries. the on r.g.c. and the body is rated 2 of our one are parastatal and you can say. in many ways they act like they act like oligarchy does and sort of private corporations affected me so they are you see has bought helped to iran's tend to

capitalism and privatization but it's also stopped it from becoming and captain in the way that you know many economic advisors have stated rouhani administration one because of course its demise and competition and it doesn't help it doesn't it doesn't let iran have a more sort of free market now why was it important to kill. him silly money i mean trump may have done it for various reasons but why was he on the radar to be killed even when he was working with u.s. troops to defeat isis has. well i think you and i do too general reasons that there are many many people wanted him dead in washington versus that yes he need to collaborate with the u.s. against the isis although not directly against sex but let's just say they you know they were in the same side of course iraq but he had also been i mean he had helped kill a lot of american soldiers before and a lot of people in america i'm intercepted and released this is the stolen money

they know the stolen money is the man who helped. and after the iraq invasion of 2 doesn't she helped really stop iranian plans with as i said that was it that on the defeat of israel into any 06 and you call it an arguable defeat when israel invaded lebanon but it's well that surely also has a role so i was going to get sort of that as part of what's taken as a so that was that but it did 2nd thing that also the money was a very effective commander who was able to really put together a sheer chance national army organized tens of thousands of soldiers in different countries including lebanon and yes there are all of course the irony in this gentlemen as well aren't telling it into a more military capable force as you saw in the in a 2006 why are. we i mean what are we are you a better it's you know you know whether it's a pack of the future as we care for what our side it's there's no doubt that there's a law really far than that why are you know much more ringback you know much more

strongly that it itself would have imagined and i think one of the main reasons and i think this is very keen on the same stolen money is that so in mine is a guy who really is able to make his forces more military capable is less talk and more action and that's that's you know what made him popular and unpopular people sick and on a facile manila's lethal. issue you do believe that when a silly money tweeted game of thrones line a trump allows that may have been his demise. well you know to be honest you joy i mean it's your action it's a sad fact but i mean we the big item we have your other white house and this one other montana happens not to be very petty and to make decisions on a personal basis frankly so i think so but i mean i think it was also reflective of something bigger still in money had come out of the shadows if you were in the last year and he did enjoy counting trump repeatedly so it definitely

definitely had a role in trump making this the in bed that he did and talk to russia thank you. after the break biden palestine i speak to pink floyd legend water water is also more coming up in part 2 of going underground. imagine picking up a future textbook on the early years of the 21st century what are the chapters called gun violence school shootings. first it was my job it was my building was my savings i have nothing i have nothing that is not. aloof or resources i look for jobs i look for everything i can to make this house. doing this. the road to the american dream paved with good refugees it's this very

idealized. americans look past that happen every single day this is a history of the usa america. welcome back today marks the anniversary of the scotland yard arrest of the world's most famous journalist and publisher julian assange now being tortured according to the u.n. in a london jail ahead of a possible de facto death sentence in the usa and songes wiki leaks organization aided edward snowden's escape from u.s. capture as well as revealing the extent of u.s. illegality around the world one of its defenders pink floyd front man roger waters joins me now from new york thanks so much roger for coming on just before we get to julian assange i'm just going to watch because 1st time i've talked to you since

you celebrating the election of joe biden as president of the united states. you know that's a long story but what about the labor party gang. made of may winburn ajay's she made a wonderful little thing for double down news in ivory tweet today but it was already getting great traction everybody should watch it everybody in england certainly has to watch it ok up finish i mean well you mentioned that german coleman is has been suspended from the british labor party the foreman they believe the leader within a cloud of anti semitism over him what do you think sickest homage are to resign now amie winburn ajay so should be the leader of the labor party not the clone. dhamma who at the moment is naomi is a woman who tells the truth and also she has a platform because she is a jewish lady of long and great standing in the british labor party and she must be

hurt. judy in a songe obviously it is disgusting that you and i having to have this conversation again and again the powers that be in the united kingdom will be entranced the church and take no notice of the universal declaration of human rights and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah law or justice or any of the rest of it they will continue as they do pujols that they are to follow the instructions of washington d.c. which will be exactly the same i suspect from joe biden as they were from donald trump biden called him a high tech a terrorist what what are you hearing from. people about songes condition because they've been worrying room is around that he's overseeing this prison that coronaviruses caused a 24 hour lock and. well i'm hearing all the same things that you're hearing you know my sources in terms of a kangaroo court that we witnessed

a couple of months ago. craig maret mainly who wrote detailed accounts of what went on in the cole which was clearly a completely set up job i'm assuming that they judgment from from the magistrate of a foregone conclusion why she suddenly at this late stage would kick off the traces . where of course what's going to happen is that the defense the people the lawyers representing julian will appeal and it will drag on for another however long it's going to try to go on and the powers that be are hoping the julian will die in prison that's why they're keeping him locked down a belmarsh where he said so much risk i mean it's quite extraordinary that he's been under lock and key for what 4 or 500 days now having committed no crime except the main myna myna bail in for it will julius and is actually served his bail

infringement liberates a ruling expected on a journey for 2021 but hasn't his own lawyer edward fitzgerald says that. trump if trump is reelected it will be worse for julian a songe and famously of course. people around biden are connected to a scientist former lawyer mark clooney and a prominent democrat party liberals. yes of course if trump had been re-elected it would have been worse for everyone in the world but that doesn't make biden a good candidate biden is a dyed in the wool were among grading servant of the oligarchy that rules the united states american will continue to be so for however long he remains president of the united states he's not to be trusted on anything do you think joe biden is going to move the american embassy back to tell the v.a. are you kidding he's made it quite clear that he's the staunchest zionist friend of

. of israel that could possibly be in office so he i hope that he and kids start a happy sleeping in that caught that they're going to share for the next few years kiss our reality has to look either of them having any power under any circumstances because they are clearly not clear thinkers they clearly don't believe in human rights they clearly have no interest in the law they have no interest in the united nations they have no interest in the geneva conventions they have no interest in any of the things that in near to my heart and to your heart. and i'm completely impartial you have campaigned for upholding of un security council revolution resolutions all your life you don't expect biden to reverse the trump a zisha on the golan heights the illegal declaration by the united states of the opposing un security council resolution making out that it was israeli now of

course not i don't expect him to. reverse any of that nonsense i expect him to absolute they abide by the deal of the century obviously i'm pretty happy that skinny piece of. dog poop who. are is no longer in the white house pretending to form foreign policy for the middle east will try to charm southern lawyer has been in saudi arabia reportedly recently on the u.s.s. nimitz has been heading to the persian gulf i mean do you think as some people have said and i know you have campaigned against atrocities in gaza that it was a signal the assassination of the iranian scientists a bit like cast lead was on gaza before obama was elected president. you have wiped the smile on my face these extrajudicial assassinations that. the united states encourage it well commits and all but also encourages all of the world it seems likely that the iranians physicist was murdered by mossad or some other israeli

actions. are something that even i find their hearts joke about because they are so disk gusting and obviously so counterproductive to any possibility of the rest of us those of us who care about human life and about this fragile planet we all call home maintaining it for some time in the future i mean i am so i am i say have before you with any or 10 minutes to deal with i can say i have had 10 hours until you have shown about the state of the world and joe biden and bob you mentioned the environment obliquely there i mean he said he supporters say he had to mention that he supports fracking is a political thing and in fact he will be environmentally conscious we have subdued cease f. ing well toll here always has for his entire career joe biden is the ultimate yes man to corporate america and he always will be and for anybody to expect any

different from him now he's president it states is clearly not very bright because anger and i happen as andras originally offered a political asylum in the london embassy of a country then allied to venezuela in the bolivarian revolution biden said the when he was the 1st democratic candidate to tweet the majority must step aside do you expect a stepping up against the venezuelan government by a washington under by the presidency who was. the president has changed his hats or his name he's now called biden he was called trump the policies aren't going to change the style will change he will have the big cheesy. white expensive american dentistry grin. and he won't be quite as vile in public as donald trump was. and in consequence he probably won't

be quite as popular because obviously trumps and vileness went down very well with probably nearly hoff's the population of the united states of america so the sure rather is american politics will continue on abashed and who knows maybe in 4 years time the d.n.c. who purport to represent the democratic party in the united states of america will wake up and will support a candidate that represents the needs and aspirations of ordinary working american people that had won this time he was cool bernie sanders he should have been macand a night he would have won the election by us hugely great a margin than joe biden did and he will vote credibly move the embassy back to tell of

a vote and he would try and make inroads into the incredibly divisive economic policy of the current corporate regime that is the united states of america well the senator from vermont bernie sanders does back joe biden seems to be the theme for the has a beam and what every is or isn't any sound is he still a politician you know so he can't say the things i do i'm not a politician i'm not looking for saddam not looking for popularity all i have to do is tell my truth. that's all i have to do that is my only responsibility as a humble bass player. clerics are. ok with your pa you're part of the liberal elite that they often talk about on the western eastern coast of the 8 or the working classes of the united states on hey you passing on that nonce conservative trolls

that i have to put up with search. ok which is finally i mean if little is going to change as you said different that doesn't judges. what's going to happen to him i don't change all these other issues may not change what about the working classes of the united states you think their futures some are going to be in twined with the donations to biden from silicon valley and and hedge funds well happens to the working class in the united states it's in the parisienne of what goes on and what should be. that little game that they play the game the democrats and the republicans of playing in washington has nothing to do with the needs of the working crouse. of course it won't have any effect on them they're not going to change color sit you hunches states isn't going to really be commons so she better not going to have

a ball of our own rep and show and aspirants of behinds bend his way to my a sponsor of hate america would leave them alone or none of them get on with their democratic session this brazing they have in venezuela it's not going to happen and the united states in the next 4 years there is going to have to suicide going to have to be cloned with the aspirations of preparing a rich to a even greater extent than they are at the moment and might be a were anything. but lives maps out the movements the women's movements leading the way. the choir and by the choir i mean all those of us who are all au-prince of the idea that there might be an old son. neo liberal capitalism. beginning to organize ourselves 250000000 homeless went on

a general strike being in year 3 preach a pretty sharp in his news that's of it was a general strike ingrates all over the well people of the getting to say come no come os we. ok and so the people are beginning to express their feelings that is very healthy and not make sense. good on you. promise mom or they want to grow through your hungry that is all they want to do harm they're too. much. they want the land back from big pharma and i'm not talking about p.h.o.r. so going about their huge industry slowly slowly slowly. and in consequence are going to destroy the planet roger waters thank you and that's it for the show will be back on wednesday 33 years to the day the 1st

intifada started in revolt against illegal israeli occupation of palestine over 3 decades later the situation for the palestinian people appears to have only got worse with gaza now arguably uninhabitable and the west bank facing constant threats of further us backed british armed israeli annexation until then join in on the ground on your twitter facebook instagram and. joe biden they indeed be inaugurated in january of next year celeb or will you have a legitimate mandate with the next campaign starts when the next president takes office and the new liberal order is headed back to our. marriage and. there's a saying. i think they're on the cheap. and then going through all the countries don't let the idea is right it's all yours come he said to give them

everything to do the best to leave. this country. this is what we don't understand how we are poor in such a country. that has until the end of the thing. similar. if. not they got. on the computer with the plane. we've come to the place story you have to see. the best. move for. you.

in the very different scene is being fulfilled here if he wants this particular line for it she says 6000. leaving it says he sounds and say this is the hour ahead. we visit wall all the centuries producing rushes but the. small school begins a vaccination program. meanwhile some parts of the u.k. reveal plans for. cards prompting fears that getting a cold would. not believe the tree will become almost all of wonderful reaction. some sort of such if they could.