some cia analysts expects diplomats and scientists contend good evidence points to moscow which has a long history of experimenting with the technology a source. told n.b.c. news the cia had determined that some russian intelligence agencies. weapons programs were present in the same cities at the same time that cia offices suffered a mysterious symptoms. the headline stories are looking on this is the 1st monday of the summer i'll be

back at the top with all the updates to stay close to. program is ahead in moments . join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to us from the world of politics. i'm sure. i'll see you then.

hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered on peter lavelle joe biden may indeed be inaugurated in january of next year however will he have a legitimate mandate will the next campaign start when the next president takes office and the new liberal order is headed back into power what will be their agenda. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest george samueli in budapest he is an author and a youtube or at big apple and here in moscow we crossed him maxine he is an expert at the russian international affairs council originally crossed out rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciate it ok let's go to georgia in budapest. and looking at the election results or how would the election results are being presented to the to the public and the world's here i can't help but get the feeling that if this had happened in any other country in the world the

united states would have stepped in or made a lot of noise about democratic norms and demanding a recount and all of this kind of thing here but they don't because it's happening to themselves you know it's just an interesting critique about how democracy is spoken about and practiced in the united states and how it's spoken about and practiced internationally go ahead george you know that would be right because everything that is normal life since the election although it's. being. rotating. laws be changed arbitrarily and unconstitutionally in order to make essential a 1000000 voting come they place without any of the checks that were supposed to be in place if any of this had happened in russia say in the state department will you know i'm not an idiot remey the document was it would already be imposing sanctions

on russia well all the phony election so that's exactly right. and we don't even have to talk about. what would happen if all the countries i mean if they had been a donald trump who had come out with the glad the when the having posset 170 electoral college as the goal is to have the had come out what would have been the media response the media would have been grieving this is the role donald trump has cheated there's no mandate every single accusation of. illegality every single accusation of electoral fraud must be investigated thoroughly must go to the courts must go to the state legislatures and also them not to certify the election as we know that would have been the response of the us media but it has

a map and because the result such as it is is something that is desired by much of the media as though their line is not election all of the reading about it's gotten training accept the results and then move over into the coming by in error and when you forget you forgot one thing george they would have resurrected the russia gate hoax just as an extra you know insurance policy as. you know you know max one of the interesting things it's could come about here can sit and depending on what donald trump intends to do in january of next year and the reason i ask you because during. the fall of the of the czarist empire of the imperial government there was a dual power that battled out during that what would become part of the russian revolution here this is something something akin to it i mean joe biden may be the

legal president of the united states but in the eyes of tens of millions. up to 73000000 he will not be and he and trump will still have a form of legitimacy that. biden is going to be hard to. to out shine as it were because as george pointed out here and i am not making any accusations here i'm going by what i hear in the meet but there's a lot of irregularities and i'm being very polite about irregularities here so i mean what does this portend for american. america's political future when you're going to have a legal president then you're going to have a lot of other people saying he's not my president the other guy is go ahead minutes right well 1st of all any president including that of the united states usually operates in 3 dimensions and it 3 donates a politician doesn't regret and is it a matter of cheese so for biting the floors it's to kind of smooth over the things

that you just mentioned it is important to show that he's a more kind of capable perhaps you know he will have to ensure that there is a faster transition there that he's people you know feel it important decisions you know they can but it's the governments. and the media i'm pretty sure will pick up on that merits to portray him as a more authentic you know kid. the full governor is a dozen more capable person to govern the united states and that the way some other out there americans who are for trunks will be toned down and the politician by then of course has to care about his farm his re-election is for his victory and the and next election cycle we're still have to take very positions that are supposed to strengthen that have a presence inside united states you don't get given gratian reform that will house you know about 11000000 illegal immigrants or

a bit more than 20 potentially even that within our investors and this is where several tasha democratic constituency for the last for the next election including congressional action and as the commander in chief they'll be you know all this focus is on external threats that i think we'll talk about later so we're city you know these will be kind of the 3 domains that he's administration will pursue and the media will very much focus on to you know you mentioned that after it's out shiny and it's more strong as a much bigger or is not due to you know outright biden but then it will be this resource that i think that the media the mainstream media and other actors in the insight you had states will try to boost biden's presidency and as you're accurately mentioned and i think that's pretty much general in the u.s. election it's fair in the us political system that is very much dependent on election cycles and as they say the next election cycle starts the day the next day

after the inauguration. maybe it will doubly so george because what's going to happen here my prediction is at least number one i trump is going to stay in the in the in the limelight obviously he's a showman 1st and foremost and he like secretly likes to tease the public and he likes to create into is a patient and what he will end up doing is it went whenever the joe biden ministration proposes or talks about there's going to be a juxtaposition and the trump is issue is this and he will have all of his. his orbit of people around him amplifying that all the time so it is going to be a binary whatever. the bike ministration proposes there's going to be an equal effect with the people that support donald trump because and again i'm not making any claims here but a lot of people believe that this election was stolen from them and then in until that is result which i doubt it will be there's this is going to hang over american

politics for them for the next 4 years and actually freeze american politics for the next 4 years oh and by the way george the media will love it because they make a lot of money off it yes that's right and. 2 probably as things stand on january 20th you know rule day donald trump will not attend biden's inhere ation he will hold 'd a rally of his own during which he will almost certainly announce his candidacy for 2024 he brought he did that. during the rally on saturday in georgia i mean more or less said that that if he isn't in the office on january the 21st he will be the candidate in 2024 so that's the question he will then declare his candidacy if and that means everything will be about. contending with with the policies of the biden in this race so this won't be like the normal electoral cycle

or who will be the. republican nominee but in 2020 people this will be don't trump is making his comeback and he is the leader of the opposition and so whatever you say whatever biden intends to do better will be. tweeting holding a rally is giving interviews. several times a day on fox news and this will be a kind of the focus of the opposition so the by dimmest ration is already a hole from the beginning there's no goodwill towards him there's no honeymoon period he is already scrambling. against the the opponent that will be had this looming ever larger and he's intent on destroying him you know matz it in how do you think the outside world is going to look at this is it again you know. joe biden may be the legal president under the constitution but you know you it will be

even noticed that there's the who's driving the news cycle who's driving what the different discussions about policy it will be a candidate that's like it george said on inauguration day if you action starts and candidate trump is going to be determining a great deal of what that discourse is how will the outside world look at as well they just be in awe or they be terrified or just be mystified go ahead right well i think we'll throughout human history doesn't work up until perhaps 21st century whose army wins in the 21st century it's super to sort of wince so i think one of the things to counter trap activity is size far as i can imagine in the united states is the big media act this trying to strip him of that information space what is sure of the information space you know twitter perhaps banning his accounts and you know major channels including fox news you know he's been very supportive of

trump throughout most of his presidency but on some instances the. you know also critical we're not writing the platform for the president so you might be well at least to me to try to marginalize him inside the united states to create the picture for the rest of the world that he's not the what upshots so if that happens it's worse the critical battle will be of who gets to control the prophecy who gets the budget and all those things as far as the perceptions are concerned i think of the world will be will be divided because we now see that so you know maybe in american allies in western europe nato allies cheerleader were were bitin and really were you know welcome to him and were among the 1st to congratulate him on what these tricks and were as other american allies in the middle east in particular were less so you know can see was yeah stick and trunk was

a better person to deal with it at least this you know their interests were served in the relationship of the united states was a mixed bag in asia i would say you know some prefer to continue working with trunk others continued you know thought that you know straps a new interim alice she under biden would be a better word for them so i think it will mean less will still be a less certainty for the rest of the world. as far as what the that's going on in the next what i mean the end of this part of the program you have it i think it will be it will be very very interesting is that you know if there's a name potential of another trump presidency why would countries around the world want to get an agreement with joe biden ok remains to be anything i can look at a short break and out of that in your discussion that's a real news state. for

all those drugs. shaped by phone person. who dares thinks. we dare to ask. people. imagine picking up a future textbook on the early years of the 21st century what are the chapters called gun violence school shootings homelessness 1st it was my job it was

my farewell bill it was my savings i have nothing i have nothing and it's not like i don't try i look for resources i look for jobs i look for everything i can to make this house. and all i end up doing is. the road to the american dream paved with good refugees it's this very idealized image of. americans look pasta the deaths that happen every single day this is a modern history of the usa and america. welcome to cross up here all things are considered i'm peter lavelle true mind you discussing some real news. ok let's go back to george in budapest won't we i think that you know the 2 of 3 of

us here on this program can easily for seeing a lot of gridlock in the next 4 years and we focus quite a bit also are on domestic politics and just at the sale in international politics what's going to be very interesting here george for me is if we have these laser thin majority for the g.o.p. for the democrats in the house of representatives and depending on what happens in georgia the senate remains in the hands of the g.o.p. so ergo there's only one thing with with some kind of effectiveness that by doing ministration can pursue is foreign policy ok and i think that because of because they'll be this sense of gridlock that sense the reality of gridlock in washington in the new administration have to dissipate that come to pass in january they're going to say this is the only thing we have got and now they're you know they're putting the band back together from the obama years and even from the george w.

bush years in the world is their oyster right now i'm not very optimistic about that because they didn't want to show themselves to be effective meaningful and that means maybe using a lot more force like we saw under obama what do you think george i agree with here that that will be the priority. biden inspiration because as you say they won't really have much margin to maneuver when it comes to the mess that they didn't get a mandate that they were expecting what the polls were predicting so this is they have bashed up. if you look at their pronouncement the pronounce of the blame gana by jake's all that it's all about how let's have act was foreign policy you know well let's show russia who's boss let's show who didn't that he has a price the pay into play here and. let's show china that we're ready to compete with them. in every country in the well let's show. the

mischievous regimes like assad was boss and that was the only intent to overthrow them so they don't really have any clear idea what it is they're trying to achieve other than they want to do this american foreign policy and activist american foreign policy usually means interference in other countries. both by a saw integrating all these phony civil society programs by not so it's all about sanctions and ultimately military intervention so 2 no doubt that will be dressed up as right you know we're competing with china because if we don't do it china neko ways so i think that's going to be the mentality and i think it's going to be and that's the. coming couple of years you know max you know when it was during the. trump administration where russia gate was full blown

and now we looks like we may have an administration will have members there were some of the biggest proponents of this hoax here and these type of people are arrogant they're not particularly smart well connected and they have great credentials at least when as the ruling class b. i don't see them eating their words they're never going to admit they've been wrong and so once a russia gate or always a russia gain or and now they will how power that doesn't portend well for the future my friend go ahead well i think there are 3 elements here 1st of all your response rita. for next time ok to trinity it's like the trinity right exactly well 1st of all 1 throughout the trump ministration yours the barrister criticize trump for 1st of all these team is incompetent. second he's a russian literature and certainly. he's undermining american leadership so

basically they're gathered team who they want to portray him as more competent less russia friendly and you know that will interest or american leadership which when you look at into into the composition of the team that you see that a lot of these people have known each other for many many many years and pretty much coming from same circles i don't want to call it a lot but there's definitely a good share of the group think and this is one of the risks of the able to actual decision making on top of foreign policy decisions that i think is as it were for many people inside the united states as well and even if you're somewhere just democratic party or states perhaps more than a professional that person it would be to the best of america secondly their main $88.00 is the worst that through the trumpet ministration that there is great need to fight what they call populists at home inside the united states in the western

society and authoritarian leaders who brought many sins in vain and not ours so when they bring a lot of this you know human rights agenda sure and there's a worse. i stick with russia we tried it was and other countries that america has a strategic disagreements with that's that's of course a big worry that's early elsewhere say you mentioned the russia game it wants russia get roles russia get or i grew with you it's just perhaps i think that they will focus more on russia is in trouble factor in the united states and you know kind of approach out more pressure on russia outside you know way kind of bringing russia to where it should be as it is a big you know concern to risk a threat united states and that of course does not a whole new very optimistic on all of the 3 accounts here but i agree with everything you're going to say you know georgia gives it that it doesn't it doesn't really worry me is that. you know like i said once a russian gator always

a russian gator and they're going to end it now they have the lovers howard on it and i think you know when we look at you know trump was soft on russia maybe the evidence doesn't show that whatsoever what worries me is even more i mean it gets down to at the at the end of the day you know what kind of conflict do you want to have you want a cold conflict or a hot one because it's going to be a conflict no matter what ok. yes that's right they talking because they want to sound very soothing because basically this foreign policy that we're talking about is something of very unpopular among the american public so they basically kept all this hidden and why i say sue things i will return to the new start treaty maybe we'll return to the j.c. will return to the paris plane with the 4 who rejoined the w.h.o. so it's all sounds very soothing. but in reality when they talk about returning to

the new. renewing the new start treaty that goes together with all sorts of threats and assertions that they're going to now challenge russia well of course if you're going to go in with that attitude then russia will have very little interest in renegotiating a new start treaty so that's really what they're trying to do i mean they are going to compete with russia and china that they know that their mentality where in every part of the world so those sort of business and they pretty much made no secret of this will be syria i mean this is this is a you know goes back to the obama. there or they will feel that obama failed in syria they will renewed their regime change if war is syria even though they're against making will the right noises well reggae's regime change where again forever was at best that's not really what they can that's not them. went out if they will do that ukraine again that's something that's so that goes back to the

obama if that's what biden's anyway so again they've got to stop interfering that we're going to go to. the caucus says in the corner car bomb prices that they're going to find more immoral places to intervene and and to show that america is back and this of course does bring them into conflict with russia. and i think that's why. they have the prospects are not at all right on course or not you know max one of the interesting things just something the george mentioned in passing is that the foreign policy. that this new team are opposing is unpopular with the public i mean it's you know if it means going back to the you know the going back to what was normal as if there was anything normal about the obama administration that and this is again the professional manager saying to the

public is that we know better than you do and that it's no it's no surprise that during the g 2020 alexion foreign policy was hardly discussed whatsoever here so again we have this kind of separation between what they manage royal professional clowns believes should be done and what the public wants the public is against these wars here and if george is right and unfortunately he probably is right we have more we have the same old wars continuing and possibly some new ones and we after 3 presidential election cycles in a row ever is consistently these conflicts are on wanted they're not popular with the public and that was the reason why i'm bringing that up because then and 2024 you know that there's going to be a candidate out there and say i told you so they will never end these wars. there if the democrats are giving this individual

a gift go ahead max right well i think all it is a president proponents of greater cooperation is that the united states and russia in an ideal world i can name the tons of issue where moscow and washington could generally cop rate unfortunately that's not going to happen and you know that thereby left relations lost their meeting perhaps too many in washington and for now we're pretty much left with what the best we can do is to manage confrontation you know make sure that this confrontation does not spill over to a hot war as you imagine well never yet and sitting everything that's happened here ok if russia gate and all of this here why should anyone in russia trust when any american administration says about anything i'm sorry getting i think there's a lot and there's a lot of truth in it ok you know i mean or where is the trust of what i want you know i don't want i'm an american you're a russian i don't we should never be enemies but you know because given what the

elites have done in washington there's no reason for us to be friends i think they're go ahead no i don't disagree with this i it's just my point it wouldn't there's definitely not trust no one really i say anyone at their worse it's just that i think you know the best looking do is to make you know managed confrontation meaning that there is no hot war and this perhaps will get based on heart or you know old school terms. and you know that's promotional heat your you can do but i think and on the issue larry of the policy of this kind of intervention is not united states absolutely it's totally not popular there is a cult both on the side of the progressive you know had the republicans that these interventions are an idea you know they try to you know the democratic establishment try to present and brand their foreign policy i. were recently asked

why the democratic policy would be beneficial for the middle class well let's see how that turns out to maybe that's a topic straight in the program because i'd like to know the answer to that i would run out of time i want to thank my guests in budapest and in moscow want to make our viewers are watching us here are to see you next time remember. when i was still seemed wrong. but all roads just don't call. me the world yet to see how he's going to come after. and in detroit because the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground.

if you find me to finish me here if you think i'm. sure. some parts all bukhari will be. prompting fears. the truth will become. some sort of. summation is required and then you become. sure we're. going to lose our civil liberties over this what are we really treating you.