in world war one coming up in the show after another assassination withering in official we investigate iran's so-called shadow commander who worked with u.s. troops to rid the middle east of al qaeda and i said i don't need to be assassinated by donald trump in a state sponsored murder that to this day goes on condemned by britain and the european union and rock royalty roger waters talks the future of imperialism under a president biden from latin america to palestine through the prism of the crimes revealed by julian assange all the more coming up in today's going underground but 1st unlike us president obama donald trump has been likely to finish his time as u.s. president without starting any new wars that's despite new york times sources claiming you wanted to bomb middle east oil superpower iran after the defeat at the polls he doesn't recognize nevertheless before the killing of iranian scientists most in fact reside there in the past few days came trumps assassination of iranian soldiers credited with coordinating with u.s. troops to defeat i stash and al qaeda as reporters have documents pertaining to an iran saudi arabia peace deal when he was murdered joining me now from new york in

the usa is the biographer of shadow come on to customers for their money irish as easy as thanks so much for coming on before we even get to the shadow commander what have you made of the fact that you. said it was criminal but didn't actually came out come out right and even condemn the assassination of this iranian professor most in fact president. i think the last 4 years we've seen them evil has really struggled to have an independent policy of the united states regards it as r.c. right frankly so you know i guess they're just they're also waiting for for biden to come in but i mean the assassination was a pro-creation that i don't think iran is going to buy into i think they're going to bait for biden to come on and hope for a different policy in watching kind of the bookends before the perceived retaliation from iran for the assassination of kusum silly moniba surprise it hasn't been any immediate retaliation for for the latest assassination. no it's not surprising that because i think and i think other said iran will act as

a game or prudently and bake for biden to come in to act before that would would be almost suicidal right i mean if anything though there bori you know of what i do in what is a month and a half left of his presidency so we're going to be very careful in iraq and other places that to make sure not to get into complications that's definitely what the majority i think the iraqi leadership and the surfer mia harmony would lots you say that the killing of kasim surname money by donald trump is comparable to the 943 u.s. assassination of japanese admiral yamamoto why was it such an important matter. well it's the 1st time since then the u.s. killed a leading general of the of another country frankly but in a difference that he was actually of course in war with japan but he was not even in war with iran so i mean it's something to assess and has a terrorist groups but to kill the leading general or

a leading general of another country. you know it's i mean it's something that has been. the point of that doesn't mean it was of course a legal or current to trash law but it also just one president whatever you want to take and it's got to be don't expect joe biden to restore the reputation of kassam say mommy is someone who for with u.s. troops again cited a national kind of. person by him is going to do that. but i do but i do think that is going to try diplomacy with iran and you know if you try to promise as i tried to say in the book i mean the mistake that off people often make is to run can be complex because they listen to the anti americanism of the islamic republic and its leadership and the thing that this means that they won't be able to negotiate with the best of the u.s. it's not true it's never been true as you pointed out there has been many instances of not just the motion but military collaboration in afghanistan iraq and other places not so many americans are given told about that in the media just set the

scene like you did in the book of where kos emslie money came from you talk about this province of command in the 170 s. half way between amazing western hub and sophistication and an ancient past. well so the money came from tribal areas of southern iran of cameron province my own mother's care months i had a personal connection to this story but i think what is going to be important to try to is career was that he came he had this tribal past me was not from the urban centers in fact his hometown was a good couple 100 kilometers away from care moneymen the sort of the provincial thing. and that gave him. that underdog feeling if you will. carry on but also an understanding of how tribal relations can work really later helped him be able to do what he did in afghanistan in iraq and out of obviously the i.r.g.c. is a unit or

a regiment or you're going to tell me what it is it's often used in the media there in syria they're here they're there tell me about the birth of it and how you know way it was born of even. including you know marxist like ali cherie r.t. as as you portray him in this book. he was a generally inspiration sort of for the revolution as someone you know lives on what try to mix everything on islam and marxism but you know r.g.c. was founded after the revolution in that in 79 and the basic idea was be have we have just had a revolution before the islamic republic and even heritage the army khomeini was very clear that you don't want to disband the army like what's all the more radical elements want to do but the question was the army and this it's just in this state are not going to serve their evolution only because they are inheritors in the past every revolution in history has had to deal with this issue so what the iranian revolution 79 and i mean it either should did was that they helped the formation of

this independent guard the i.r.g.c. who has nonpolluting to become really the main military force in iran and it meant economic force really controls much of the iranian economy and of course it's been the personal to course on guard of michael holland to follow his policies in the region but what's interesting about i you see is that it doesn't use the name iran in syrian title and that's one reason i say seeds sees itself as 10 islamic and international and also its leaders are very clear that they don't see themselves as a saudi bomb by the iranian constitution but they believe the ideal to defend the revolution and the ideals of since the 9 am comes 1st not that they always practice this because you know as the many other big bloated military organization there's a lot of options. yet there's a there's a lot of shortcomings on it. well yeah and if anyone thinks they are east taken to have their eyebrows raised by the allegation in your book that israel and iran

against iraq have to tell you an israeli leader iran would barak have terminated the interview when i told him about his or any involvement in financing a mask had just tell me how israel came to be supplying weapons to iran. yes all of this is you know one of those crazy or necessary but in the 1980 s. in the context of the. the contents of the iran iraq war its trial was more interested in the weakening saddam the fickle of each it so at the bigger tread israel had had good relations with the dish in iran before the revolution with the shah of iran and it sort of had a belief that well the iran they're doing is islamised phase but they'll get will go out of it that sort of one of the beliefs of many israeli had and that's why yes they impact israel armed iran in the war with iraq and they even you know may be there were there was a star of david on the on the some of the military equipment used that the trunk which caused surprise by a lot of in among

a lot of iranian soldiers who are you know who knew they were very strong anti israel eat and. now you know there's been a lot of criticism for years about the neoliberal turn of economics in iran making the rich richer in iran and the poor poorer in this book you say the i.r.g.c. has been relatively immune and benefited from a kind of an a keynesian militarism in terms of economic policy. yes all the i.r.g.c. well it has been immune and it has driven and it's an interesting it's an it's and it's an interesting point but from the ninety's as iran. basically what happened the night in that is after the death of michael holland in $89.00 is that the iranian leadership decides that it wants to be kept in effect so it goes through the capitalist road the 1st 10 years of evolution they're not short they are people who are very much in the socialist side they want to nationalize everything they want to build having the strand are those who prioritize private relations in that their inner sense the direction has been differently toward capitalism and this is

generally are you see as as a help to but not unlike china and some other countries. the r.g.c. and the body is rated 2 of our one are parastatal and you can say. in many ways they act like they act like oligarchy does and sort of private corporations affected me so they are you see has bought helped to iran's tend to capitalism and privatisation but it's also stopped it from becoming and captain in the way that you know many economic advisor have stated rouhani administration one because of course its demise and competition and it doesn't help it doesn't it doesn't let iran have a more sort of free market now why was it important to kill. him silly money i mean trump may have done it for various reasons but why was he on the radar to be killed even when he was working with u.s. troops to defeat a satanic. well i think you and i do too general reasons that that meant

you know many people wanted him dead in washington forces that yes he need to collaborate with the u.s. against the isis although not directly against sex but let's just say they you know they were the same side of course iraq but he had also been i mean he had helped kill a lot of american soldiers before and a lot of people in america mentor stablished and released this is the stolen money they know the stolen money is the man who helped. and ask ali iraq invasion of 2 doesn't she helped really stop iranian plans with as i said that was a tad on the defeat of israel into any 06 and you call it an arguable defeat when israeli made in lebanon but it's well that surely also has a role so i was going to get sort of that as part of a 2nd as a so that was that what he did 2nd thing that also money was a very effective commander who was able to really put together a sheer chance national army organized you know tens of thousands of soldiers in

different countries including lebanon and yes there are all of course the irony in this gentlemen as well and telling it into a more military capable force as you saw in the in a 2006 why are. we i mean what are we are you a better it's you know you know whether it's a pack of the futurist for whether side it's there's no doubt that there's a law really far than that war you know much more you know much more strongly that it itself would have imagined and i think one of the main reasons and i think this is very keen on the same still in mali is that so women is a guy who really is able to make his forces more military is less talk and more action and that's that's you know what made him popular and unpopular people sick and on a facile manila's lethal. issue you do believe that when a silly money tweeted game of thrones line a trump allows that may have been his demise. well you know

to be honest the joy of image or action it's a sad fact i mean we the big item we have your other white house and this one other montana happens not to be very petty and to make decisions on a personal basis frankly so i think so but i mean i think it was also reflective of something bigger solemn money had come out of the shadows if you were in the last year and he did enjoy counting trump repeatedly so it definitely definitely had a role in trump making this the in bed that he did and talk to russia thank you. after the break by then palestine. i speak to pink floyd legend was your watch is also more coming up in part 2 of going underground.

the world is driven by. thinks. we dare to ask. joe biden they indeed be inaugurated in january of next year however will you have a legitimate well the next campaign starts when the next president. and the new liberal order is headed to the will be marriage and.

welcome back today marks the anniversary of the scotland yard arrest of the world's most famous journalist and publisher julian assange now being tortured according to the un in a london jail ahead of a possible de facto death sentence in the usa and songes wiki leaks organization aided edward snowden's escape from u.s. capture as well as revealing the extent of u.s. illegality around the world one of his defend his pink floyd front man wrote your waters joins me now from new york thanks so much roger for coming on just before we get to julian assange i'm just going to watch because 1st time i've talked to you since the rating the election of joe biden as president of the. united states no no that's a long story what about the labor party getting rid of may when. she made a wonderful little thing for double down news an ivory tweet today but it was already getting great traction everybody should watch it everybody in england certainly has to watch it ok up finish i mean well you mentioned that german coleman is has been suspended from the british labor party the former labor leader

leader with a cloud of anti semitism over him what do you think sickest amish are to resign niamey winburn ajay so should be the leader of the labor party not the clone. dhamma who at the moment is naomi is a woman who tells the truth and also she has a platform because she is a jewish lady of long and great standing in the british labor party and she must be hurt. judy in a songe obviously it is disgusting that you and i having to have this conversation again and again the powers that be in the united kingdom will be entranced the church and take no notice of the universal declaration of human rights and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah law or justice or any of the rest of it they will continue as they do pujols that they are to follow the instructions of washington

d.c. which will be exactly the same i suspect from joe biden as they were from donald trump biden called him a high tech a terrorist what what are you hearing from. people about songes condition because they've been worrying room is around that he's overseeing this prison that coronaviruses caused a 24 hour lock and. well i'm hearing all the same things that you're hearing you know my sources in terms of they can grow coal that we witnessed a couple of months ago. craig maret mainly who wrote detailed accounts of what went on in the cole which was clearly a completely set up job i'm assuming that they judgment from from the magistrate of a foregone conclusion why she suddenly at this late stage would kick off the traces . where of course what's going to happen is that the defense the people the lawyers representing julian will appeal and it will drag on for another however long it's

going to try to go on and the powers that be are hoping the julian will die in prison that's why they're keeping him locked down a belmarsh where he said so much risk i mean it's quite extraordinary that he's been under lock and key for what 4 or 500 days now having committed no crime except the main minor minor and fridge well julia songes actually served his bail infringement liberates a ruling expected on a journey for 2021 but hasn't his own lawyer edward fitzgerald says that. trump if trump is reelected it will be worse for julian a songe and famously of course. people around biden are connected to a scientist former lawyer mark clooney and a prominent democrat party liberals. yes of course if trump had been re-elected it would have been worse for everyone in the world but that doesn't

make biden a good candidate biden is a dyed in the wool were among grading servant of the oligarchy that rules the united states american will continue to be so for however long he remains president of the united states he's not to be trusted on anything do you think joe biden is going to move the american embassy back to tell the v.a. are you kidding he's made it quite clear that he's the staunchest zionist friend of . of israel that could possibly be in office so he i hope that he and kids start a happy sleeping in that caught that they're going to share for the next few years kiss our reality has to look out either of them having any power under any circumstances because they clearly not clear thinkers they clearly don't believe in human rights they clearly have no interest in the law they have no interest in the

united nations they have no interest in the geneva conventions they have no interest in any of the things that in near to my heart and to your heart should and i'm completely impartial you have campaigned for upholding of un security council revolution resolutions all your life you don't expect biden to reverse the trump position on the golan heights the illegal declaration by the united states of the opposing un security council resolution making out that it was israeli now of course not i don't expect him to. reverse any of that nonsense i expect him to absolute they abide by the deal of the century obviously i'm pretty happy that skinny piece of. go to peru. or is no longer in the white house pretending to form foreign policy for the middle east will try to trump southern law has been in saudi arabia reportedly recently on the u.s.s. nimitz as we head into the persian gulf i mean do you think as some people have

said and i know you have campaigned against atrocities in gaza that it was a signal the assassination of the iranian scientists a bit like cast lead was on gaza before obama was elected president. you've wipe the smile on my face these extrajudicial assassinations that. the united states encourage it well commits and all but also encourages all of the world it seems likely that the iranians physicist was murdered by mossad or some other israeli actions. are something that even i find their hearts joke about because they are so disk assisting and obviously so counterproductive to any possibility of the rest of us those of us who care about human life and about this fragile planet we all call home maintaining it for some time in the future i mean i am so i am i sit here before you with any are 10 minutes to deal with i can say i have had 10 hours and

talk to have shown about the state of the world and joe biden and bob you mention the environment obliquely there i mean he said he supporters say he had to mention that he supports fracking is a political thing and in fact he will be environmentally conscious you have subdues he's f. ing wells hole here always has for his entire career joe biden is the ultimate yes man to corporate america and he always will be and for anybody to expect any different from him now he's president nights it states is clearly not very bright because i am going to happen as andras originally offered a political asylum in the london embassy of a country then allied to venezuela in the bolivarian revolution biden said the when he was the 1st democratic candidate to tweet the majority must step aside do you expect a stepping up against the venezuelan government by

a washington under by the presidency who was the president has changed his hats or his name he's now called boy when he was called trump the policies aren't going to change. the style will change he will have the big cheesy. white expensive american dentistry grin. and he won't be quite as vile in public as donald trump was. and in consequence he probably won't be quite as popular because obviously trump's vileness went down very well with probably nearly hoff's the population of the united states of america so the sure rather is american politics will continue on abashed and who knows maybe in 4 years time the d.n.c. who purport to represent the democratic party in the united states of america will

wake up and will support a candidate that represents the needs and aspirations of ordinary working american people the had won this time he was cool bernie sanders he should have been macand a night he would have won the election by us hugely great a margin than joe biden did and he would probably move the embassy back to tell of a vote and he would try and make inroads into the incredibly divisive economic policy of the current corporate regime that is the united states of america well the senator from vermont bernie sanders does back joe biden seems to be themes that he has became and whatever he is or isn't any sound is he still a politician you know so he can't say the things i do i'm not a politician i'm not looking for saddam not looking for popularity all i have to do

is tell my truth. that's all i have to do that is my only responsibility as a humble bass player. clerics are. ok with your pa you're part of the liberal elite that they often talk about on the western eastern coast of the. 8 or the working classes of the united states on hey you passing that nonce conservative trolls that i have to put up with search. ok which is finally i mean if little is going to change as you said different at the songes group what's going to happen to him i don't change all these other issues may not change what about the working classes of the united states you think their futures some are going to be in twined with the donations to biden from silicon valley and and hedge funds what happens to the working class that. is in the parisienne what goes on and what should be.

that little game that they play the game the democrats and the republicans are playing russian president nothing to do with the needs of the working colonels. of course it won't have any effect on them they're not going to change color sit behind she states isn't going to really be commons so she better not going to have a ball and are in rep of the show and aspirants of the heinz bend his way to my a sponsor of hate america would leave them alone and let them get on with their democratic salvation this regime they have in venezuela it's not going to happen and the united states in the next 4 years there is going to have to suicide going to have to be controlled with the aspirations of prepare a rich to a even greater extent than they are at the moment and might be and were anything.

but lives maps out the movements the women's movements leading the way. require and by the choir i mean all those of us who are all over prince of the idea that there might be an old son. neo liberal capitalism. beginning to organize ourselves 250000000 homeless went on a general strike being in year 3 preach a pretty sharp in his news that's if there was a general strike ingrates all over the well people have beginning to say come no come out sweep. and so the people beginning to express their feelings that is very healthy and not make sense. good on you. promise mom or they want to grow through your hungry that is

all they want to do harm they're too. much. they want the land back from big pharma and i'm not talking about ph joking about this huge industry slowly slowly slowly. and in consequence hoping to destroy the plan roger waters thank you and that's it for the show will be back on wednesday 33 years to the day the 1st intifada started in revolt against illegal israeli occupation of palestine over 3 decades later the situation for the palestinian people appears to have only got worse with gaza now arguably uninhabitable and the west bank facing constant threats of further u.s. backed british israeli annexation until then join me on the ground on you tube twitter facebook instagram and.

yet there is a saying. look there on the cheek. and then you went through all the countries let's idea is right it's called the us company he said if we give them everything we're doing to. leave. this country. this is what we don't understand how we are poor in such a country it's. the numbers into the minds of the disenchanted. similis in the. good why do you need one leg of the if you feel if the minutes of on were not there got to meet leave again in the world without

a doubt a couple with that the plane could have come back to the place story if you had to see it. to be and the best the. if you will. do you imagine picking up a future textbook on the early years of the 21st century what are the chapters called gun violence school shootings. first it was my job then it was my fear with dealing with my savings i have nothing i have nothing to lose now i don't authorize alou for resources i look for jobs i look for everything i can to make this house. in oil and doing this. the road to the american dream paved with good refugees it's this very idealized image of our america needs americans look hostile the deaths that happen every single day this is

a modern history of the usa america on r.t. . behind me different scene is painful to hear anything coming up on the program we visit a center that's ready to. begin. program in some parts of the u.k. revealed plans for. cards prompting fears that getting a vaccination although not so well. we get reaction. from the nation is. then he does become subliminally. sure. of this what are we really you know we speak to roger waters the co-founder of legendary rock group pink floyd he.