program whether there are still potential pitfalls to come but 1st alex like a reaction times recently beat him and our show on scotland flash nobody thinks. i am says george reid got me involved in politics in 1709 to my mind he was the greatest m.p. this country that scotland has ever seen at 82 he still talks more sense than many of the muppets involved in the scottish and westminster governments today. and sit and says you don't listen lightning to independence for scotland i was particularly interested to hear that professor sort of calm a great figure of the national movement scotland professor of constitutional law and the university european m.p. that will mccormack drawn up a constitution on the basis of here's what i made earlier isn't it time to put out for any releasing a pillar fernanda says some time to steer leveling a lot from from billy kay one of the guests on the program christine official says

i just feel that bore sure that's the prime minister has let is must slip and allowing his disdain of scots who want to diversify from all political agendas to show 100 norful says fascinating to hear of the connections to in scotland to russia once the the country of my birth he doesn't say which one. summing up of of the shore where we're told to vote to how you can assert the 1st saw is described as the jewel diago between the shoulder blades beautiful exquisite perfectly poised and deadly and all with a smile and look for the most a moving on to the john hume a sure is said that was a fuss the a thing and and moving tribute i well remember the troubles in northern ireland it is disgraceful that bracks that threatens the peace our system in donna was great to see that nobody trusts the british government to which an answer of. difficult

to say well that's a flaw or a feature thereby to be them. at the beginning of this extraordinary year when the president of the united states was making fun of the vitus and the prime minister of the united kingdom was not even attending the corporate briefing meetings dr chris smith to cambridge for august wind on this program that we were facing the grievous of public health challenges now with the 1st bag scenes arriving alex discuss this with dr smith i'm professor who corneal of trinity college dublin if we can be sure that an effective vaccine would bring this nightmare to many. of us a look at me your daughter christmas welcome to the alex salmond show. thank you both very much the week of the vaccine the last know being the approved arm deployed in the united kingdom to more coming up and russia of the vaccine has been ruled out and china seems to have not one but through 5 seasons saw chris murphy

over the man who predicted at the start of the year that the pandemic was coming on this program could you know tell us it's coming to an end. i hope so i think this is a wonderful triumph for science isn't it here we are less than a year after we 1st discovered this virus existed and we've got the genetic code we've understood it's biology and now scientists have invented not one but possibly 40 different vaccines there are 3 which are nearing the finishing line in the u.k. this is really exciting and not just really exciting science but really exciting medicine these things look to be very very effective let's hope they're really really effective in the really long term but for now if we can carry on this trajectory then yes i think this is boris johnson said is the beginning of the end look at beal slightly different position than the average to publicly approval of the 1st vice he doesn't through yet different regulatory authority on the other hand you're covered cases at the present moment seem to

a bit more under control than they are in the nations of the united kingdom would that be a fair summary it is that it's we're doing great by the way are the laws like europe won't work or average the way down it will it's a let's go level 5 block area here we went straight over the works we've got the virus now. and you've got a very strange situation express almost take a back seat in the north of. the world was like snow there and yet we can't get the vaccine and so i mean there is a story figure out because i'm only away is that you know clearly we're awaiting the inmate you know on this vaccine we don't know the a.m.a. with the circus agree it may in the f. it will approve this means that we're now but in a strange mix one part of the island is actually you know it's not a virus something which you know we have the vaccines and you know the place for 3 you said the pfizer vaccine the 1st to be approved is a different type of vaccine is i going to cause any public concern you are people

not going to say well maybe i should just wait for the opposite of vaccine which is a much more conventional stale of vaccine that we would that be a mission. we don't know that we're going to have this vaccine from oxford yet we don't know it's absolutely going to be delivered in terms of approval so therefore at the moment we know we have one vaccine which has been approved by the m. h.r.a. is judged to be safe it's judged to be very effective at least in the short term so therefore it seems to me that the most sensible thing to do at the moment is to use the one we don't have. any port in a storm. look at deal as island and indeed the rest of the european union are you also looking at pfizer and oxfam that are on the other end of the 40 are still vaccines that close murther and the key to that might be the ones who are deployed and. it is remarkable i have to stress said i mean i have all these

vaccines that are handed an incredible achievement the most not be asleep but at least 8 predicted i think june of next year the ear may well approach at the same or at the mh or air force we'll see the fire one would earn over the next they're probably us was only there although that hole in a couple of things the other week that's an area that we're very well then you've got sanofi there coach johnson and johnson you know noble acts and then as you mentioned alex there's the watch and what we've seen cases and that's only one so so one prediction is by the middle of next year that maybe as many a taxi that they will use in the european union i've no doubt that the emirates are some of them were proved as well and the question then becomes which one do you meet someone more convenient storage issues or are less stringent with on them as we all know by now that either one needs an offical storage and then another there are old fashioned technologies by the way which are also being deployed and so you're a back seat so it's going to be very interesting to see what happens in terms of which ones you swear. chris smyth but these issues with different types of fact see

the county authorities really have the luxury of waiting for that they just have to take as you said what's available and go on with it as opposed to waiting for the perfect vaccine for the circumstances is quite right and here we are with the world paralyzed by a pandemic and we want to get back to us and in normal as we possibly can as soon as we can and what is holding the process up at the moment is just that there is difficulty making enough vaccine we're talking about vaccinating an entire world population some vaccines are going to be much more useful in certain settings and by that i mean if you've got a vaccine that needs to be kept at minus 80 degrees it won't be any use whatsoever in a country that doesn't even have a reliable electricity supply let alone minus 80 degree freezers similarly if you have a vaccine which is very very good at surviving in the field but might be a little bit less efficacious then that's actually arguably a much better benefit and a much better prospect to use that in

a poor country where actually survival of the agent when you can't keep it in the fridge really matters so actually the more horses we've got in this race the better as far as i'm concerned because it means there's more supply chains there's more reliability of supplies and there's more scale because at the moment the bottleneck is making enough of the stuff fast enough and look at below are the irish government and the other of european governments are this set on the same progression of. oxford of automate the be running up beijing or ringing up the claim with and saying you have a few 1000000 spear dollars is that you can give us hope in this the field in the us do the the others government for example have a good take on which vaccines they are going to be distributing way in to the population not really if i go across the state of the us in the sense i mean it will be stepwise russia one is interesting because that's very widely used in several countries where the chinese like seen in the. middle east in morocco you

know so deep we're going to happen billions and millions of people being vaccinated with all these vaccines and they will hopefully release the data and then you might as chris said you might see a more efficacious x. you know the population made maybe you know younger people might respond well to one you know it's all kinds of questions that will never be answered mark about period ahead of most of it is the science of what we call face or it's going to be really interesting a face for if it's approved and then you pharmacovigilance go and that's going to be very close monitoring of the main back scenes in terms of us also the so we're going to get a huge amount of data the coming months and we may in s. then which vaccine let's use crisp earth have improper talk about be vaccinating or a hit the whole population but i remember speaking to professor honey buns on a an earlier show and he pointed out to me in conversation at least the look in this middle is saying one was then tired population of glasgow was vaccinated for smallpox and the space of a week or 2 so it isn't really such

a huge logistical exercise to vaccinate a whole population when you have the full health infrastructure as the nations of the united kingdom. well there are a number of challenges to doing this not everyone's mobile not everyone can get to a vaccination center not enough vaccines can be made available quickly enough not enough people are of are available to give vaccines so organizing those sorts of movements mass movements of people mobilization of vaccines train staff etc it is a logistical headache because not because it's impossible but because we don't have a simple track record of doing that the entire world is susceptible to this this is a global problem that needs a global solution that global solution is to offer vaccines to everybody everywhere because as melinda gates of the bill and melinda gates foundation very accurately put it if there's covert anywhere there's covert everywhere because it will seed itself back in come back with a flourish if we give it the opportunity fasten your house should the authorities

face up to the anti movement in various countries on and on the on the internet i mean it's unlikely in a liberal democracy is that the vaccine would be made compulsorily unlikely if so how should the authorities best face the the arguments to persuade the population to be vaccinated in the numbers that the love of the the herd immunity that christmas was talking about barry our example and iraq since it was you know on the on the embury tiny minority you're out of the box really you know and one policy is just ignore them the 2nd one is you where you are the moderates has it's the other ones the focus on the other with the convinced that maybe as high as 30 percent or more people new vaccine we don't know the long term safety pro or yet now what would you do not it is very simple and you start by saying look this vaccine is about protecting the moment it's actually about and that's what we've got so many people over 60 or 70 most of the deaths are in that age but if you can imagine that

if the death rate goes down 2.05 percent so we're going to be that's tremendous is the fear now begins to go away from this these and you can open up the. sighting more 'd and more because no monger lethal busy after this is actually about in the 1st phase of this and all you can do is appeal to people's sense of community and their sense of reasonableness i suppose i think it's also important to say comics given the data we need we have transparency here so the f.d.a. today actually enters the issue not the data i'm fighting which anybody can read you know and you say here is the safety data here's the africa see no please vaccinate and you can't make it mandatory to vote just nice people demented and you know civil liberties people and so on so so as to be voluntary vaccination the last thing you might do is give people a choice so for example you might say if you want to go to australia you have to have a taxi if you choose not to go that's fine you know and that let them make a decision there so those kinds of things are now being discussed extensively and are not i'm on the actual maximizer of the government at

a special communications committee who will now begin to you know make make arguments to try to convince axing hazards and people that accidents of pretty much an act of an extremely important. from the south to the bay colby asking us to talk ex-pats whether christmas celebrations 1st of sight seeing the cavalry coming over the hell out of the tile is sensible so i listen. to. the citizens. of the eastern churches. as weapon of mass communication is spreading. that way this. decade and of m.t.v. is. the basis. for them to

a 1000000000 contaminated country interviews on you tube affecting your. alternative vision. if you start to question. that you wait 6 weeks. later to germany to. make it up to media. day under god i did it is safe. if you get exposed to r.t. active waves decontamination my. eyes is as brave it was think. you can defend yourself enjoy the bombs from the work and the less good indication

. of the enemy as if you. welcome back alex is in discussion with dr chris smith managing editor of the naked scientist website and professor luke when you professor of biochemistry i trinity college dublin. chris smyth you are talking about the concept of a common sense christmas what do you mean by that amid this controversy in the u.k. and it did in ireland about whether that's a really wise to loosen regulations just when we may be seeing the end of the president well i was trying to trump scotland's jason leitch who told everyone to prepare for a digital christmas when it became clear that we were going to be having some semblance of christmas it was important to emphasize to people that this in the

same way that many ministers then came out and said this is not a target it is a limit and if you don't want to get together and celebrate christmas you're not obliged to but if you do decide to go ahead please be sensible so what i'm trying to advocate for is a common sense christmas really use your common sense we know who the vulnerable members of society are we know who the people in society who are more likely to have the infection at the moment are the people who are most vulnerable are older people people who are male people who have preexisting health conditions the people who are more likely to have the disease at the moment whether or not they're ill with it they're certainly potentially infectious are younger people school age children are the biggest group at the moment for obvious reasons they have more contacts with other people so if you're planning on having a get together at christmas it would be sensible if you have older members of your family or people in frail health not to invite them to come and have christmas with you this year wait until next year when a they've been vaccinated be the level of disease circulating in society in the in

the community is very low and that will make a much safer christmas have your christmas like they do in australia have a christmas in july as i celebrated a few years ago when i was there and that can actually be a good thing to look forward to but it minimises the risk on the other hand if you've got very young fit members of your family and you just want to celebrate with them you're much less likely to have in searing problems as a consequence of that so that's really what was advocating for use your common sense in terms of who you mix with and try to minimise the. mixing to the greatest extent possible and that seems clear enough look in the other the politicians and danger of of mixed messages in both the united kingdom administrations under an island by same we're having this christmas celebration is an effect of leah an invitation for people to gather together to pass on the violence just at the point where you you might see the the end in sight what do you think an island with i think you have an even longer christmas i'm not suggesting in the in the united kingdom this may sound strange as we have sympathy for our obligations as let's

take the ferry so for them to call this one because if they were to keep it strange and people break out anyway because they were desperate to have some relief from this year for so many people so they had a pragmatic approach and they said right 3300 souls that meet on christmas day see it separately sit it with your own house or only one person in the kitchen you know there's a very interesting that's the guidelines on how to have a safe christmas just probably some of the fact that people are going to mix and mingle and the popes are saying close which is the tragedy brought in that you know of the middle of march and the fear here is gathering at shopping centers and on streets and so on the mask mandates shots where your mask on the street even you know so they're trying to limit the damage. chris murphy why are some countries must implement test and trace and some countries haven't managed to hit the mark well 1st and foremost this is a really tough disorder to get on top of and the reason it's a really tough disease to get on top of is as some studies have confirmed up to 78

percent of people who are infected with this krone virus may show no symptoms whatsoever when you've got as we did do in recent months in the u.k. $100000.00 cases a day each person will have maybe $5.00 to $10.00 contacts across their periods per day and that means you might be trying to trace down an impossible number of possible contacts that's just not the testing capacity for a star this is not something that just the u.k. is guilty of this is been a major headache for many countries and many jurisdictions around the world that have found how tough this is to keep a lid on and and that's why it has brought many of the most developed economies in the world to their knees look at deal you mentioned earlier on that the island's figures in recent weeks of look pretty pretty good in european terms on a given comparison of the united kingdom countries after having a fairly similar pattern in the airlie it causes of this pandemic can you put your

finger on what exactly has happened in ireland in recent months of the load the the disease to be better suppressed in there and we sometimes well again it's a remarkable performance of the irish people are we are so we were proud of ourselves in a way because people did comply with the guidelines. and it was it was very simple but the message they got the message 'd you're quite reasonably and you know it was september the law was going to go up like like you with the public health messaging was very strong you know avoid the 3 c's close old ones like crowds they're not the simple guideline in many of the irish people you know the north the young or so i mean let's say we have been telling people that probably forming a lot. what's happening you know i like the idea that would be why we let people die or get really sick when there will be vaccines and people think it was on that missed oh well. why are you taking some of these lessons through any of your forthcoming book terminus of elements of the pandemic that you're putting your

finger on and saying these are the things we've got to learn for the future there is indeed in my book a skull never mind the bollocks it is the science you see in how it's actually out of its sights on the market itself quite well i can't say i got a whole chapter on vaccines actually and it was ironic or go that i did the proofs during coverts i was able to progress since then but the book is actually about using science to help us and i think the 2nd thing i would say about the irish people that they let wanted to see hear sign to amaze me are not that it's on the media stuff and i'm amazed at the level of scientific literacy here so and the book is saying look science is our friend and here is the case for vaccines for example as one topic in the book so it's been quite timely actually the book is that we will be at home in a macon scientists platform a christmas from one of the essential lessons junior colleagues taking out of their experience so far in this extraordinary pandemic. well it's been an unusual time for me hasn't it i suppose because here i am as a consultant for all of just i work as

a doctor diagnosing people with virus infections and i teach a cambridge university about pandemics and where they come from and at the same time you know for the last 20 years i've been making science radio programs pop carson occasionally television programs and so it's been a unique fusion for me of a doctor who works on viruses and knows a bit about coronaviruses and also knows a bit about the media and has a media platform if i'd had to sit in my living room and watch you know netflix and whatever 1st 6 months i think i would have gone stir crazy so i'm very grateful i have had that they they kind of ferociously busy sched chill that i have because it's kept me sane and i feel very sorry for people that have lost livelihoods and lost their sanity in some cases during the last 6 months it must have been absolute era before them a look at me and finally is that the sort of message that is going to get across the island and across the european union countries that the science has to prevail after the sun this huge tragedy that there will be

a concentration saying look these are the lessons unlearned they must be learned and they must be ready for them to mentation when the next pandemic comes exactly i mean i mean that well with cyrus remarries those phone trees about sars i think it was. what i wrote. in you 60 so we will be ready next time. will be more perilous but more importantly i think ah it's the biggest benefit in my opinion is a new vaccine is ease new technology you ran your a vaccine approach that for a number of years but now one of the it's a very soon with so on that you're in and indeed the oxford they were going to use that against cancer. so i think one of the big ballot science that we've learnt in this who'd be deployed with all the vaccine in line but maybe the biggest benefit and lastly i'm. my own area i was going to give my area i work and call my work and go i'm here we got 4 projects on community employment the approaches the project

people go now if covert goes away but not the other way but certainly it's manageable what we discover on the implemented what's going to apply to other situations so so i'm optimistic that we'll see a lot of medical breakthroughs overnight and christmas finally would that be a bright naughton and which to to end this very very dark year. i think this is been a triumph of science and has demonstrated what can be done when we put our minds to it and how ingenious people are we've gone from never having met this pathogen before to identifying it working out how it causes disease developing a vaccine and then developing ways to produce that vaccine and not just a any of vaccine vaccines that work in brand new ways new science new technology which will have a lasting legacy and which are going to save lives into the future for a range of in a range of different ways and for a range of different reasons so i mean is every reason to be optimistic now for 2021 and would that mean though for

a few very briefly that public health and in fans a science have to go hand in hand so that when a new pathogen pandemic a manages the public health can control it till the science gets a grip of it and then the phrase absolutely i mean that's the beauty of this there will be no better than public health now at last and that have to meet the years we will improve and it won't just be about infectious diseases public health traditionally was and many other diseases as well use these to protect people i mean overall for me it's a triumph of science and medicine as a way to protect our people through all of these things we've been discussing and i'm not at last we're going to we're going to underline some of the things it's been trying you know for years anyway so i agree because i think that the future has to be seen as optimistic not round and not downplaying how serious and difficult it's been it's been very tough here so many ways that we can definitely look more optimistic needs more sweetly and that optimistic note professor neal dr smith thank you so much for joining minelli simon show. well

many european countries have struggled to contain the 2nd wave of the deadly virus nor is this more true than the 4 countries of the united kingdom where dissent against a patent contradictions in the public health approach has been growing no doubt the post pandemic inquiries will be able to explain why the countries which invented public health were incapable of controlling and morton dividers as for example south korea the new zealand have done fortunately and thanks to billy scientific work internationally the vaccine program is upon us although it has to be hoped that the organization of the rule light will be more effective than the test interest systems in each country the arrival of the vaccine has lifted the mood of a population growing increasingly restive of restrictions much debate in recent weeks has been on the proposed christmas tree lack sation where politicians seem to

be licensing human interaction which the on experts tell them will result in an evitable surge in cases just at the very point where the vaccine arrives. there have been more than 60000 deaths in the united kingdom one of the highest casualty rates in the world hundreds of thousands of others will suffer long term disability many and not just those of us whose immediate family sipping touched by the tragedy of this appalling disease find it difficult to comprehend why the christmas festival cannot be marked in a more common sense manner compatible with public health the bottom line i quote from the politicians seems to be that people would go ahead anyway but that's a 2nd application of leadership why would people not respond to leadership which says the family celebrations could be delayed until it's safe to do so that perhaps there could be a longer celebration of christmas and easter together who knows it might even allow

room at the end for the underlying messages of these great religious festivals to be better considered and understood amid thanksgiving for those who have survived but for now from alex myself and all that the she will stay safe and hope to see all again next. thank you ed. geysers financial. climate change is it this is the central plank

support diagram is going to call them right now so you stop to. imagine picking up a future textbook on the early years of the 21st century what are the chapters called gun violence school shootings. first it was my job. i have nothing i have nothing. i look for resources i look for jobs i look for everything i can to make this. doing this. the road to the american dream paved with did refuse it's this very idealized image i want to. look pasta the deaths that happen every single day this is a history of the usa america.

international law from moscow i'm daniel hawkins wherever you are today thanks for joining us on the program. a u.s. government to devise a report has given the green light to the. regulators the side of the benefits of the cover job outweigh any risks but also comes the u.k. warning people with severe allergies against taking the drug and in america itself the food and drug administration has revealed that 6 people died during these trials. has the latest after a short period of inception from its trial to the results it appears that a covert 19 vaccine has now been approved by a panel from.