i'm joined now from tucson arizona by one of them a sight of intellectuals on earth the father of modern linguistics american president no i'm trying to scare not thanks so much rat coming back on the show so what is the global green new deal that's the new book climate crisis and the global green you deal and why is it to you the most important political plan in all of human history we're now facing a number of crises serious ones one crisis is the threat of climate environmental catastrophe we must move to net 0 emissions within a few decades and one goal of the green new deal is to provide the means to do that the other problem which is arising with great hurry right now is the collapse of the economy as a result of the endemic no it is not this is

a very different kind of crisis from the financial crisis this time there is no escape through just consumer spending or oring money in the. stock market that's not going to do anything we have to create a new economy which offers good jobs or constructive for. developing the times of interest structures social environmental structure physical structure that we need the kind of goods that we need to live a decent life and that's the other half of the green new deal it is essential for not only for survival but for health issues you mention corona virus how does coronavirus alter your analysis given that corona virus threatens corporate profits interestedly it does not yet. sure retton

most corporate profits many corporations are making money hand over 'd fist of that high tech for example whether it was $1.00 day in which jiffies us termed $13000000000.00 or they're going to hedge funds private equity funds old doing fine because the treasurer is poor and the money into the economy in a way which largely benefits them if you take a look at the economy take the united states but it's world would the stock market is breaking records however he's referring records they're totally dissociated and that's. a sign of the eat disease of the economy which then only be overcome by the development of the policies.

outlined in the details of the green new deal proposals what do you make of the continuing corporate reframing of the climate crisis it's up to ordinary people to recycle to buy organic food it's up to them rather than the need for systemic change naturally those who benefit from existing institutions do duck under see them changed not which rudd is a fair good to tell it area dictatorship and their problems the dictator isn't going to say overthrow me well that's a knowledge as to what you're describing the core of the problem is the. massive. production for private profit not for need and the you should the fossil fuels will may have to be phasing the mel and moving towards total

sustainable energy no new emissions within a few decades we've talked to scientists about how deforestation that to coronavirus tell me about how in the book you talk about even strategies like red it's called ari d d it's funded by corporations to stop deforestation but in your book you say that it actually facilitates deforestation encourages it. helps corporate farmers at the expense of others why is it time and time again these strategies sponsored by governments and the world bank in that case seem to achieve the opposite effect i mean they may in the back of their minds decent intentions but there were constrained by the nature of that to tional or to develop programs which will not arm the our full institution. most at the core.

but will defer ensure to their needs the result is policies which whatever their intentions are often negative in there we have to address the problems directly without. giving priority to the needs of the destructive institutions there's no time to overcome 'd a limited we have to accommodate to their existence the timescale of institutional change is out of the range of time skill or dealing with the environmental rights so we have to work within the basic institutional structure that exists within it we can find a very clear definite policy is there outline the my colleague paul and your visions of the book and so on the till which with

a small percentage of the economy suffice to will suffice to deal with these twin programs has helped book actually go further than the road to hell being paved by good intentions because we want to shock people as you call it deliberately malicious a stake was just happening right in front of her. so the last few days was strong corporate backing the truck of ministration has been eliminating. regulations which protect the population and the environment from release of methane and or snaked other blocks of ways to the benefit of the corporate system not only the fossil fuel companies the banks

finance them benefits them. it's merely harms the environment and harms the american people then clear now if that's not malice what is now there may be somebody in the boardroom who says it would be nice to deal with the environment and it would be nice to bill but when it comes to making specific decisions to maximize profit while market share all those good intentions faded to the back and the book the detail is clannad full employment is key bob calling quote calm ox saying capitalism require as unemployment to diminish the boggling power of what because where is this greendale seems to provide for full employment. remember that we do not live in

a capitalist society of the kind that marx was discussing marx was discussing quite properly an abstract form of capitalism which brings a it's essential nature so every existence is watermill a form of state capitalism where state action has been undertaken under pressure to mitigate the destructive forces of pure capitalism so yes sure capitalism would require as mark says the reserve on nuclear but state capitalism and overcome the floor moved to guarantee employment and instead of decent employment there for what it isn't do with the problems of capitalism in fact we were moving pretty close to formal full employment. under obama's so the

tepid response to those financial 'd questions continue to troll it was not the kind of full employment that any decent human being would want very large part of it was highly carious job but very look i've got to ask you did it surprise even you how capitalism has reinforced systems of power among elites even though it may endanger their own children suppose you're the c.e.o. of. j.p. morgan chase biggest bank or exxon mobil you basically have 2 choices one choice is to meet the requirements of the institutional structures that exist and work to maximize profits. no matter

what the human consequences that's one choice the other choice is to put those aside and work to create a decent world suppose you make such a choice in your beazley thrown out of the board of directors and somebody else is good in who makes the 1st choice these are institutional it's not individual it's no that's not to say that it would be change within existing institutions it can so take j.p. morgan chase again biggest bank you know recently internal memo of the bank was leaked and made public was very interesting it weren't the directors of the bank that this in their words the survival of humanity is at stake if we continue on our present course of funding trouble feels that it added that the

bank is facing reputational risks meaning the public is getting and rage and will take its revenge on you and harm you the leaders of the bank unless you make moves towards that we're going to save humanity from destruction otherwise the banks will be taken over the public and national ads which then be done replaced by public things no actual within reach and the leaders of the economy know that their old is quite fragile while everything seems nationalized here in britain more so than after the 2008 crash because of a pandemic and hundreds the 5 people are being arrested on the streets of london as part of the extinction rebellion protest that j.p. morgan claims in public. rather than any mema fossil fuel loads for the arctic

drilling have stopped their phasing out known for coal mining and they're planning a $200000000000.00 empowerment something called the empowerment economic development deal on pa with goldman sachs you mention exxon mobil well the bottom shelf says yes climate change is real yes renewables are an indispensable part of the future energy mix but no provoking provoking a sudden death of fossil fuel is not a plausible plan and then what you do is explain to the general public that this is foals that they're serving their own interests and you must hold their feet to the fire to dry up those pretenses and to do it they know is in fact feasible and correct to move away from certainly from coal and from all 'd fossil fuels as rapidly as we are involved in

a class war i want the ruling class doesn't say i'm just going to do it i want i don't care about you it can't they don't have that power the rule is fragile they know it and therefore they must accommodate to an energized active engaged up you know asian exactly as is often done in the us the green new deal uses the phrase new deal because the new deal in the 1930 s. did something very similar. not asha efficient scale but same kind of thing a government action to overcome a crisis deep crisis coal caused by the fundamental flaws of capitalist society and then came the war. i wish more

expense would you know. anything required. and the depression created. a 1st. world of consumer demand which led to several. fairly rip it surely go there it grew now i'm trying to scale stop you there more from one of the world's greatest public intellectuals after this break. today the industry prefers to me spend millions of euros in you know the 3 d. daily conditions i will be sniffing all about making money making profits in some of the corporations international markets import export do you imagine the number of chronic diseases that are out in every community today it is not due to new

viruses own new microbes that is not true so it is due to environment. not going to say you know the momentum discipline for muscles are really just accumulate could only come into seeming to be so unless they don't allow us to play . if just the food industry is successful it will create more jobs it will create more value added it will create more growth so i don't see why we shouldn't also fight for the interest something in history not except that we are british and we want regulation has industry and if we don't behave serious penalties must fight. back geysers financial survival guide liquid assets how does it you can convert it into caste quite easily. to keep in mind no acid from a new place and to watch god's record.

welcome back i'm still here with american president and author of the seminal manufacturing consent no i'm jones k. imagine the new deal planning your primary process for the democrats did not elect bernie sanders who favored the new deal style politics here in britain of course jeremy corbin lost the election what do you make of november you say in the book the democrats are in the pockets of wall street lobbyists the republicans you compared to right wing fringe parties of europe that's garrett we have it right now the republicans are would say off the spectrum they are in international comparisons they are here with 3 parties in europe with neo fascist backgrounds and on issues like climate they're the worst in the world they will trump administration wants to race towards maximizing the use of fossil

fuels eliminating the regulatory system which reduces somewhat their destructive effect on the climate on the illusion perfectly open about this not pretending anything that was to look at the republican convention not a word about it just trying to rose people's emotions fears a fear which premises. with their guns and any emotional feel you can imagine told version of miller from or a critic regimes with a new fresh. in the inside the democratic or there's a conflict or striving. you can see it if you look closely at what. a climate. you know back about 2 weeks take

a look at the internet 2 weeks ago look for democratic party climate programs they're pretty progressive program was biden's program forced on biden he didn't choose it forced on biden by the progress or praise 'd. program or that any that it yet exist tailored at the same internet now to fill in right trey and clipped democratic climate programs what you find is nothing they removed the d n the democratic national committee the d.n.c. basically clintonite donor oriented democrats managed in a big power play to remove biden's progressive climate program that's a battle inside the democratic party is very rather similar to what we just saw and

britain. where 'd the blairite right wing labor party or the mentor labor party managed undermine the korban campaign in a really vicious matter very powerful 800 page deterrent study of how they did it which is being most recent pressed in the british press area or which showed 2 means that they went to to try to undermine or been ziff or to develop a lever or e that would be responsive to the needs of its constituents before just tory labor party with policies that actually had very high approval among the government the right way for the labor party for a mentor they were already couldn't stand that they'd rather lose the election than lose control of the party were saying something similar to that in the conflict

within the democratic party today and what 'd it means is the progressive base were harder more energetically more commitment case by who wins the election to ensure that they go back to the impressive programs that they had announced and not be forced to abandon them by the donor oriented clintonite conservative element of the party of basically what used to be called moderate republicans but all of that has vastly overshadowed by the desperate need to get rid of the malignancy in the wage. which whatever criticism you make of the democratic party the white house will need nancy is incompetent playing worse and will if that free.

well we invite sukkahs starmer on to refute what you said about labor however he's seeking an investigation into our right to broadcast at all as joe biden apparently the policy hasn't changed 2 trillion dollars to boost clean energy and upgrade to $4000000.00 buildings a seeking of a shift towards public transportation but of course as you know in the most recent speech joe biden said no ban on fracking there are so many different aspects obviously to the green new deal but given that we've had the deaths of refugees being reported here in the english channel and in this book you say rich countries are in turmoil because a small fraction of refugees might defile their precious ethnic purity and you also quote the u.n. figure of 65000000 refugees fleeing violence persecution and global warming why do

you think they are presented in our media as the migrants and that the real enemy here is human trafficking not foreign policy. for the reasons that you just quoted and ironic but after a moment. they might e-file racial purity we see in that issue or in human history it's disgraceful it's shocking that to be overcome europe's reaction to the refugee crisis is that specter will or europe is moving the setting up centers in the poorest countries in africa. to try to deter people from fleeing from the wreckage of european imperialism to make sure that they don't get to europe sure's bribing turkey to keep them away from us you know the there's

a reason why people are fleeing not because they love the euro is because of intolerable 'd conditions largely created by a european terror and violence over centuries and now it's europe's responsibility to behave humanely towards. a not to resort to racists pretenses in order to unhitch them for for your crimes same is true here when president troll. compels mexico to keep central american refugees from reaching the territory of the united states to pull for asylum which they certainly deserve why are they fleeing central america. not because they don't like their own eager us terrorist while it's destroyed their country there quite

a few books people can read of us about that and that's terrible and violent i just . that you would agree presumably with donald trump however that our greatest immediate threat was a nuclear holocaust caused by nuclear weapons agree with trump is racing towards maximize exist threat of nuclear weapons that's why the the clock has been moved over the famous doomsday cook has been moved the minute then has been moved closer to midnight every year the truck has been in office this last january they have been good minutes moved to seconds 100 seconds to midnight since january protests continued as an act on the arms control regime which is has been the rule is somewhat

limited the enormous ringback threat of nuclear destruction. it already eliminated the i.n.f. treaty. couple months ago more illuminating the open skies treaty which traces but was no he is no he laid on shrivel is grounds delayed implement the renewal of the new start treaty and now it may be too late to renew it and it's the last of the major treaty is soon won beyond that were threatening to start nuclear testing as a mill none for 28 years all of this is on top of that moving towards creating. new weapon new and or more threatening weapons of destruction against which there is no possible defense democrats don't have

a pretty record on this issue but nothing from well we invite we invite the u.s. ambassador on trump says actually he's all for peace obviously finally i've got to ask you about julian assange of wiki leaks he begins the trial of his life in 48 hours time in a london court the u.n. repertoire has been on this show says he's been effectively tortured by british authorities what do you think it will mean if the wiki leaks founder is extradited to the united states on espionage charges and would be a criminal act on the part of the british government to exceed to the u.s. event or extradition. would be issued they've already committed many crimes. astonishes offense is not pain bill.

now if he had good reasons not to as he would've been extradited if he had not paying bill requires a tap on the wrist not torture in a high security prison. up to the what reason not even a leader is allowed to receive books i'm in mass murderers or being treated like in a way beyond the worst vicious criminal ok and if he's extradited it comes up for trial on the us as spinoza's laws which even ceria tensional did. it's trial is being. committed the crime of letting the general population know things that they have a right to know and that powerful states don't want of the know that's the crime. and the way the british government is acting is deplorable. it or pressure again

must be developed to ensure that each and we were least quickly from these charges and. be absolved of all these threats while u.k. prime minister barak johnson says it's only right that joining us on finally faces just as the government says it supports the important work of the un special rapporteur on torture but disagrees with a number of his observations as for the us sector say pumpin he says wiki leaks is a hostile intelligence agency noam chomsky thank you that's in for one of your favorite shows of the last season we will be back with a brand new season of going on the ground on january the 13th until then subscribe to the john on you tube to catch all the other interviews from this season and for online exclusive content merry christmas and i bet at 2021.

she sure moviemaker those who are doing just that in japanese and i think that you don't mind that just by commision on the. mozart. class i mean because of the mouthpiece you know for a long today in that country not if they were established on the map. and you. know about the economy to have more than a. substance that. moment might be. the muslims who don't know who's who not only in the last. time. around you know whether. this is the turnover moment but. look at what's going to become a long way to my homeland going to come up thinking i come up each time she comes home to go tell me it's a guy who's going to go maybe i'm not really happy that my mind you're going to meet.

with time let me know will and should intervene and stop the persecution of julian assange also as this tumultuous year comes to an end we assessed the cost to average working people any quality just for getting worse. the growing list of countries around the world all banding flights from the 19th kingdom following the emergence of a new strain of coronavirus means that brits abroad may struggle to get home for christmas that's already in doubt. they sent me a text saying a train's been cancelled you have to get out of the country now basically yeah just to visit my family member i'd be alone for press 2 for. joe biden's team is weighing up options to punish russia for they claim is its role in hacking the u.s. government agencies but they are yet to provide evidence as to who's behind the attacks.