welcome to going on the ground the team and i will be back with a brand new season starting on my birthday january 13th but until then we will be showing some of your favorite shows from this season. i'm joined now from tucson arizona by one of them a site of intellectuals on earth the father of modern linguistics american president no i'm trying to escape not thanks so much for coming back on the show so what is the global green new deal that's the new book climate crisis and the global green you deal and why is it to you the most important political plan in all of human history we're now facing a number of crises serious ones one crisis is the threat of climate environmental catastrophe we must move to net 0 emissions within a few decades. one goal of the green new deal is to provide the means to do that the other problem which is arising with great hurry right

now is the collapse of the economy as a result of the endemic no it is you know this is a very different kind of crisis from the financial crisis this time there is no escape through just consumer spending or oring money in the. stock market that's not going to do at least we have to create a new economy which offers good job. construct if we're. developing the times of interest structures social environmental structure physical structure that we need the kind of goods that we need to live a decent life and that's the other half of the green new deal it is essential for not only for survival but for health issues you mention corona virus

how does coronavirus alter your analysis given that corona virus threatens corporate profits interestedly it does not yet. sure retton most corporate profits many corporations are making money hand over 'd fist now that high tech for example whether it was $1.00 day in which jiffies us termed $13000000000.00 or they're going to hedge funds private equity funds old doing. the treasurer's poor in money into the economy in a way which largely benefits them if you take a look at the economy take the united states but it's world would the stock market is breaking records however he's referring records they're totally dissociated and that's. a sign of the eat disease of the economy

which then only be overcome by the development of the policies. outlined in the details of the green new deal proposals what do you make of the continuing corporate reframing of the climate crisis it's up to ordinary people to recycle to buy organic food it's up to them rather than the need for systemic change naturally those who benefit from existing institutions do duck under see them changed not which rudd is a fair good to tell a terrorist dictatorship and there are problems the dictator isn't going to say overthrow me well that's a knowledge as to what you're describing the core of the problem is the. massive. production for private profit not for need and the you should

the fossil fuels will may have to be phasing the mel and moving towards total sustainable energy no new emissions within a few decades we've talked to scientists about how deforestation that to coronavirus tell me about how in the book you talk about even strategies like red it's called ari d d it's funded by corporations to stop deforestation but in your book here say that it actually facilitates deforestation encourages it. helps corporate farmers at the expense of others why is it time and time again these strategies sponsored by governments and the world bank in that case seem to achieve the opposite effect i mean they may in the back of their minds decent intentions but there were

constrained by the nature of that to tional or to develop programs which will not arm the our full institution and that's the. most at the core. what will further ensure to their needs the result is policies which whatever their intentions are often negative in the earth we have to address the problems directly without. giving priority to the needs of the destructive institutions there's no time to overcome 'd a limited we have to accommodate to their existence the timescale of institutional change is out of the range of time skill for dealing with the environment for asians so we have to work within the basic institutional structure that exists within it we can find

a very clear definite policy is there outline the my colleague poems your visions of the book and so on the till which with a small percentage of the economy suffice it to will suffice to deal with these twin programs has helped book actually go further than the road to hell being paved by good intentions because who want to shock people as you call it deliberately malicious a stake was just happening right in front of her eyes so the last 2 days was strong corporate backing the truck of ministration has been eliminating. regulations which protect the population and the environment from release of methane and or snaked other blocks of ways

to the benefit of the corporate system not only the fossil fuel companies banks finance them benefits them. severely harms the environment and harms the american people then clear now if that's not malice what is now there may be somebody in the boardroom who says it would be nice to deal with the environment and it would be nice to bill but when it comes to making specific decisions to maximize profit while and market share all those good intentions faded to the back and the book the deal is clannad full employment is he bob calling quote calm ox saying capitalism require as unemployment to diminish the boggling power of what because where is this greendale seems to

provide for full employment. remember that we do not live in a capitalist society of the kind that marx was discussing marx was discussing quite properly an abstract form of capitalism which brings out its essential nature so every existence. is watermill a form of state capitalism where state action has been undertaken under popular pressure to mitigate the destructive forces of pure capitalism so yes sure capitalism would require as mark says a reserve army. but state capitalism and overcome the floor and move to guarantee employment and incentive decent employment there for one doesn't

do with all problems of capitalism in fact we were moving pretty close to formal full employment. under obama's so the tepid response to those financial 'd questions continue. it was not the kind of full employment that any decent human being would want very large order that was highly carious job very look i've got to ask you does it surprise even you how capitalism has reinforced systems of power among elites even though it may endanger their own children suppose you're the c.e.o. of. 'd j.p. morgan chase it were exxon mobil you basically have to jewishness. one choice is to meet the requirements of the

institutional structures that exist and work to maximize profits no matter what the human consequences that's one choice or the other choice is to put those aside and work to create a decent world suppose you makes a choice and your immediately thrown out by the board of directors and somebody else is good in who makes the 1st choice these are institutional it's not individual ups no that's not to say that it be changed within existing institutions it can so take j.p. morgan chase again biggest bank recently an internal memo of the bank was leaked and made public was very interesting it weren't the directors of the bank that this and there were the survival of humanity is it stage if

we continue on our present course of funding fossil fuels and it added that the bank is facing reputational risks meaning the public is getting and rage and will take its revenge on you and harm you the leaders of the bank unless you make moves towards that we're going to save humanity from destruction otherwise the banks will be taken over by the public a nationalized which can be done or replaced by public thanks nuptial within reach and the leaders of the economy know that their old is quite fragile while everything seems nationalized here in britain more so than off to the 2000. crash because of a pandemic and hundreds of people are being arrested on the streets of london as

part of the extinction rebellion protest that j.p. morgan claims in public rather than a leaked memo fossil fuel loads for the arctic drilling have stopped their phasing out known for coal mining and they're planning a $200000000000.00 empowerment something called the empowerment economic development deal on paul with goldman sachs you mention exxon mobil well the bottom shelf says yes climate change is real yes renewables are an indispensable part of the future energy mix but no provoking provoking a sudden death of fossil fuel is not a plausible plan and then what you do is explain to the general public that this holds that they're serving their own interests and you must hold their feet to the fire to dry up those pretenses and to do with

a no is in. fees of will and correct to move away from certainly from coal and from all 'd fossil fuels as rapidly as we are involved in this war i want the ruling class doesn't say i'm just going to do it i want i don't care about you it can't they don't have that power the rule is fragile they know it is there for the must accommodate to enter judged active engaged up you know exactly as is often done in the us the green new deal uses the phrase new deal because the new deal in the 1930 s. did something very similar. well not on a sufficient scale but same kind of government action to overcome a crisis deep crisis cool cool was the fundamental flaws of the

list. and then came the war was best with more expense. required to. undo the depression created. over the past. relative consumer demand which led to several. fairly rope it surely go there it grew. scale stopping there more from one of the world's greatest public intellectuals after this break. with time running out will ensure that donald trump intervene and stop the persecution of julian assange also as this tumultuous year comes to an end we

assessed the cost to announce which more people think any policy is only getting worse. bad guys are playing the survival guide upstaging him like all the stars simply federal reserve. down there are you going to get him back. oh heck no this is a repatriation scheme where we get the rest in 7 years. philip a separate kaiser for. welcome back i'm still here with american president and author of the seminal manufacturing consent no i'm jones imagine the new deal clearly your primary process for the democrats did not elect bernie sanders who favored the new deal style politics here in britain of course jeremy corbyn lost the election what do you make of november you say in the book the democrats are in the pockets of wall

street lobbyists the republicans you compared to right wing fringe parties of europe. we know that you know the republicans are what we're all. they are in international comparisons they are compared with 3 parties in europe with neo fascist backgrounds and on issues like climate the worst in the world they want to trumpet ministration wants to race towards maximizing the use of fossil fuels eliminating the regulatory system which reduces somewhat their destructive effect on the climate on the population perfectly open about this not pretending anything otherwise take a look at the republican convention not a word about it just trying to rouse people's emotions fears

a fear that waits primacy. of. taking away their guns and any emotional feel you can imagine told very familiar from or a product regimes with a new fresh. in the inside the democratic party there's a conflict striking. you can see it if you look closely at what. climate you know back about 2 weeks take a look at the internet 2 weeks ago 'd look for democratic party climate programs they're pretty progressive program was biden's program forced on biden he didn't choose it forced on biden by the progress or praise 'd. program or that any of that it yet exist tailored at the same internet now to fill in

right and clipped democratic climate programs what you find is nothing. they removed the d n the democratic national committee the d.n.c. basically clintonite donor oriented democrats managed in a big power play to remove biden's progressive climate program that's a battle inside the democratic party is very rather similar to what we just saw and britain where the blairite right wing labor party or the mantra labor party managed undermine the korban campaign in a really vicious matter very powerful 800 page deterrent study of how they did it which is being most recent pressed in the

british press area or which showed 2 means that they went to to try to undermine corbin's effort to develop a labor already that would be responsive to the needs of its constituents before just story labor party with policies that actually had very high approval among the government the right way for the labor party for a mentor they were already couldn't stand that they'd rather lose the election than lose control of the party we're seeing something similar to that in the conflict within the democratic party today and what it means is that the progressive era base marks were harder more energetically more commitment. trace biden wins the election to ensure that they go back to the impressive programs that they had announced and not be forced to abandon them by the donor

oriented clintonite conservative element of the party a basically what used to be called moderate republicans but all of that has fastly overshadowed by the desperate need to get rid of the malignancy in the way. which whatever criticism you make of the democratic party the white house will need nancy is incomparably more and will if that free. they say it's true. well we invite suggest aamer on to refute what you said about labor however he's seeking an investigation into our right to broadcast at all that's for joe biden apparently the policy hasn't changed 2 trillion dollars to boost clean energy and upgrade to $4000000.00 buildings a seeking of a shift towards public transportation but of course as you know in the most recent

speech joe biden said no ban on fracking there are so many different aspects obviously to the green new deal but given that we've had the deaths of refugees being reported here in the english channel and in this book you say rich countries are in turmoil because a small fraction of refugees might defile their precious ethnic purity and you also quote the u.n. figure of 65000000 refugees fleeing violence persecution and global warming why do you think they are presented in our media as a migrant and that the real enemy here is human trafficking not foreign policy. for the reasons that you just quoted. but here are. well. it sure will racial purity we've seen though it sure human history is

disgraceful it's shocking to be over. your reaction so they were if it's gross as is this. where europe is moving the city you know senators who are structures in africa like you sure it try to eat her. plea from the wreckage those european imperialism to make sure that they don't get to europe sure robi keeps them away from us. you know the there's a reason why people are fleeing not because they love europe is because of intolerable conditions largely created by a european terror violence over centuries and now it's europe's responsibility to behave humanely towards. a not to resort to

racist pretenses in order to unhitch them for all for europe crimes same is true here when president troll compels mexico to keep central american refugees from reaching the territory of the united states to pull for asylum which they certainly deserve why are they fleeing central america not because they don't like their own bigger us terrorist while it's destroyed their country there quite a few books people can read of us about that and that's terrible and violent i just . that you would agree presumably with donald trump however that our greatest immediate threat was a new planet holocaust caused by nuclear weapons agree with trump is

racing towards maximizing just threat of nuclear weapons that's why the the clock has been moved if the famous doomsday clock has been moved the minute then has been moved closer to midnight every year the trunk has been in office this last january they have banded minutes moved to seconds. 100 seconds to midnight since january protests continued as an act on the arms control regime which is has been the rule somewhat limited enormous threat of nuclear destruction it already eliminated the i.n.f. treaty when couple months ago more illuminating the open skies treaty which traces but there was no he is no he laid on shrivel is grounds

delayed implement the renewal of the new start treaty and now it may be too late to renew it and it's the last of the major treaty izumi war and beyond that were threatening to start nuclear testing as been none for 28 years all of this is on top of that moving towards creating. new weapon new and or more threatening weapons of destruction against which there is no possible defense democrats don't have a pretty record on this issue but nothing from well we invite we invite the u.s. ambassador on trump says actually he's all for peace obviously meant but finally i've got to ask you about julian a songe of wiki leaks he begins the trial of his life in 48 hours time in

a london court the u.n. repartee has been on this show says he's been having 3 tortured by british authorities what do you think it will mean if the wiki leaks founder is extradited to the united states on espionage charges. it would be a criminal act on the part of the british. to exceed 'd to the us to vent for extradition. would be if they've already committed many crimes. a songes offense is not saying bail. now if he had good reasons not to as he would've been extradited if he had not paying bill requires a tap on the wrist not torture in a high security prison. up to the what reason not even a leader is allowed to receive books i'm in mass murderers or being treated like in

a way beyond the worst vicious criminal ok and if he's extradited it comes up for trial on the us as spinoza's laws which even ceria tensional did. it's trial is being. committed the crime of letting the general population know things that they have a right to know and that powerful states don't want of the know that's the crime. and the way the british government is acting is deplorable. of bitter pressure again must be developed to ensure that each and he were least quickly from these charges and. he be absolved of all these threats while u.k. prime minister mark johnson says it's only right that joining us on finally faces just as the government says it supports the important work of the un special rapporteur on torture but disagrees with

a number of his observations as for the us sector say pompei he says wiki leaks is a hostile intelligence agency noam chomsky thank you that's it for one of your favorite shows of the last season we will be back with a brand new season of going on the ground on january the 13th until then subscribe to the john on you tube to catch all the other interviews from this season and for online exclusive content merry christmas and i bet at 2021. she sure movielink it goes it did just that it just means that. you don't mind. the shuttles all. the time you can look them up face you know for a long today in that country not if they were established at the map. and you. can only talk to them or that last step is that.

you will sometimes. get to know i mean that i'm so i. was. going to. use the term obama i don't know what i'm going to. look at what's called the minimal. going to come up thinking i come up each time she comes home to go tell me a single particular thing i mean people are. going to. in

today's news the developers of russia sputnik the coveted vaccine sign an official memorandum of cooperation with astra zeneca in the hope that combining the 2 back scenes will boost africa see. also this hour a new coronavirus a variant that's emerged in the u.k. is believed to be around 70 percent more contagious and current strains of the head of the russian fund behind 6 to dispel fears about that. if you know. we. was a spy ring. you didn't.