time after accounting and welcome to going on the ground the team and i will be back with a brand new season starting on my birthday january 13th but until then we will be showing some of your favorite shows from this season. i'm joined now from tucson arizona by one of the most cited intellectuals on earth the father of modern linguistics american president no i'm trying to escape not thanks so much for coming back on the show so what is the global green new deal that's the new book climate crisis and the global green you deal and why is it to you the most important political plan in all of human history we're now facing a number of crises serious ones one crisis is the threat of climate environmental catastrophe we must move to net 0 emissions within a few decades. would goal of the green new deal is to provide

the means to do that the other problem which is arising with great hurry right now is the collapse of the economy as a result of the endemic no it is you know this is a very different kind of crisis from the financial crisis this time there is no escape through just consumers or oring money in the. stock market that's not going to do it he said we have to create a new economy which offers good job or constructive for. developing the times of interest structures social environmental structure physical structure that we need the kind of goods that we need to live a decent life and that's the other half of the grid new deal it is essential for

not only for survival but for health issues you mention corona virus how does coronavirus alter your analysis given that corona virus threatens corporate profits interstate lee it does not yet. sure retton most corporate profits many corporations are making money hand over 'd fist of that high tech for example whether it was $1.00 day in which jiffies us termed $13000000000.00 or they're going to hedge funds private equity funds old doing because the treasurer is poor and money into the economy in a way which largely benefits them if you take a look at the economy take the united states but it's world will the stock market

is breaking records however he's referring records they're totally dissociated and that's a sign of the eat disease of the economy which can only be overcome by the development of the policies. outlined in the details of the green new deal proposals what do you make of the continuing corporate reframing of the climate crisis it's up to ordinary people to recycle to buy organic food it's up to them rather than the need for systemic change naturally those who benefit from existing institutions do duck under see them changed not which is a fairly good to tell it area dictatorship and there are problems the dictator isn't going to say overthrow me well that's analogous to what you're describing the

core of the problem is the. massive. production for private profit not for need and the you should the fossil fuels will may have to be phasing the mal and moving towards total sustainable energy no new emissions within a few decades we've talked to scientists about how deforestation that to coronavirus tell me about how in the book you talk about even strategies like red it's called ari d d it's funded by corporations to stop deforestation but in your book you say that it actually facilitates deforestation encourages it. helps corporate farmers at the expense of others why is it time and time again these strategies sponsored by governments and the world bank in that case seem to achieve the opposite effect i

mean they may in the back of their minds decent intentions but there were constrained by the nature of the institutional over to develop programs which will not arm the our foliage the. most at the core. but will hurt i'm sure to their needs the result is policies which whatever their intentions are often negative in there we have to address the problems originally without or. giving priority to the needs of the destructive institutions there's no time to overcome 'd a limited we have to accommodate to their existence one of the timescale of institutional change is out of the range of time skill for dealing with the

environment for instance so we have to work within the basic institutional structure that exists but within it we can find very clear definite o. ses there outline the my colleague poems your visions of the book and so on the till which with a small percentage of the economy suffice to will suffice to deal with these twin programmes has helped book actually go further than the road to hell being paved by good intentions because who want to shock people as you call it deliberately malicious a stake was just happening right in front of her. so the last few days was strong corporate backing the truck of ministration has been eliminating.

regulations which protect the population and the environment from release of methane and or snakes other toxic wastes to the benefit of the corporate system not only the fossil fuel companies it banks finance them benefits them. severely harms the environment and harms the american people and then care of let's not malice what is now there may be somebody in the border who says they would be nice to deal with the environment and it would be nice to bill but when it comes to making specific decisions to maximize profit while market share all those good intentions faded to the back and the book the deal is clear that full employment is he

bob calling quote calm ox saying capitalism require as unemployment to diminish the boggling power of what because where is this greendale seems to provide for full employment. remember that we do not live in a capitalist society of the kind that marx was discussing marx was discussing quite properly an abstract form of capitalism which brings out its essential nature so every existence. is watermill a form of state capitalism where state action has been undertaken under popular pressure to mitigate the destructive forces of pure capitalism so yes sure capitalism would require as mark says a reserve army. but state capitalism and overcome the floor

moved to guarantee employment and instead a decent employment there for one doesn't do with all problems of capitalism in fact we were moving pretty close to formal school employment. under obama's so the tepid response to those financial questions continue. it was not the kind of full employment that any decent human being would want the jury large or to that was highly experienced job but very look i've got to ask you does it surprise even you how capitalism has reinforced systems of power among elites even though it may endanger their own children suppose you're the c.e.o. of. 'd j.p. morgan chase if it were exxon mobil you basically have to jewishness.

one choice is to meet the requirements of the institutional structures that exist and work to maximize profits no matter what the human consequence that's one choice or the other choice is to put those aside and work to create a decent world suppose you makes a choice in your immediately thrown out of the board of directors and somebody else is put in who makes the 1st choice these are institutional it's not individual it's no that's not to say that it be changed within existing institutions it can so take j.p. morgan chase again biggest bank recently an internal memo of the bank

was leaked and made public was very interesting it warned the directors of the bank that this and their words the survival of humanity is at stake if we continue on our present course of funding fossil fuels and it added that the bank is facing reputational risks meaning the public is getting and rage and will take its revenge on you and harm you the leaders of the bank unless you make moves towards. working to save humanity from destruction otherwise the banks will be taken over by the public and national acts which then be done or replaced by public thanks nuptial within reach and the leaders of the economy know that their old is quite fragile while

everything seems nationalized here in britain more so than off to the 2000. crash because of a pandemic and hundreds of people are being arrested on the streets of london as part of the extinction rebellion protest that j.p. morgan claims in public rather than a leak mema fossil fuel loads for the arctic drilling have stopped their phasing out known for coal mining and they're planning a $200000000000.00 empowerment something called the empowerment economic development deal on par with goldman sachs you mention exxon mobil well the bottom shelf says yes climate change is real yes renewables are an indispensable part of the future energy mix but no provoking provoking a sudden death of fossil fuel is not a plausible plan and then what you do is explain to the general public that this holds that they're serving their own interests and you must hold their

feet to the fire to dry up those pretenses and to do it no is in. fees of will and correct to move away from certainly from coal and from all 'd fossil fuels as rapidly as we are involved in this war and one of the ruling class doesn't say i'm just going to do it i want i don't care about you it can't they don't have that power the rule is fragile they know it is there for the must accommodate to enter judged active engaged of your relation exactly as is often done in the us the green new deal uses the phrase new deal because the new deal in the 1930 s. did something very similar. not on a sufficient scale but same kind of same government action

to overcome a crisis deep crisis coal caused by the fundamental flaws of well a society and then came the war wish that slid more expense way beyond anything required. ended the depression created. a finished. round of consumer demand which led to several decades of fairly rapid surely go there it grew and now i'm trying to scale stopping that more from one of the well the greatest public intellectuals after this break.

thinks. we.

welcome back i'm still here with american does it into the author of the seminal manufacturing consent no i'm jones k. imagine the new deal clearly your primary process for the democrats did not elect but he sont is who favored the new deal style politics here in britain of course jeremy corbin lost the election what do you make of november you say in the book the democrats are in the pockets of wall street lobbyists the republicans you compared to right wing fringe parties of europe. we know that. republicans are what would. you. they are in international comparisons they are compared with 3 parties in europe with neo fascist backgrounds

and on issues like the climate the worst in the world they want to trumpet ministration wants to race towards maximizing the use of fossil fuels eliminating the regulatory system which reduces somewhat their destructive effect on the climate on the elation perfectly open about this not pretending anything who was to look at the republican convention not a word about it just trying to rouse people's emotions fears a fear that wakes primacy. of. taking away their guns and any emotional feel you can imagine told very familiar from or a product regimes of a new fresh. in the inside the democratic party there's

a conflict striving. you can see it if you look closely at what. a climate you know back about 2 weeks take a look at the internet 2 weeks ago look for democratic party climate programs they're pretty progressive program was biden's program forced on biden he didn't choose it forced on biden by the progress or perry's. program or that any that it yet exist tailored at the same internet now to fill in right and clipped democratic climate programs what you find is nothing. they removed the d n the democratic national committee the d.n.c. basically clintonite donor oriented democrats managed in

a big power play to remove biden's progressive climate program that's a battle inside the democratic party is very rather similar to what we just saw and britain where 'd the blair right right wing labor party are lament reliever cory managed undermine the korban campaign in a really vicious matter there are very powerful 800 page deterrent study of how they did it which is being mostly suppressed in the british press but for him or it showed means that they went to to try to undermine corbin's effort to develop the labor party that would be responsive to the needs of its constituents before this story labor party with policies that actually had very

high approval among the government the right way for the labor party for the mentor they were 40 couldn't stand that they'd rather lose the election than lose control of the party 'd we're seeing something similar to that in the conflict within the democratic party today and what it means is the progressive popular base once were harder more energetically more commitment traced by who wins the election to ensure that they go back to the press if programs that they had announced and not be forced to abandon them by the donor oriented clintonite conservative element of the party basically what used. to be cool. all of that is firstly. it's just. to get rid of the ligament in the wage. which wherever it is.

already the wage. is. worse and will if it free. it's true. well we invite suggest aamer on to refute what you said about labor however he's seeking an investigation into our right to broadcast at all that's for joe biden apparently the policy hasn't changed 2 trillion dollars to boost clean energy and upgrade to $4000000.00 buildings a seeking of a shift towards public transportation but of course as you know in the most recent speech joe biden said no ban on fracking there are so many different aspects obviously to the green new deal but given that we've had the deaths of refugees being reported here in the english channel and in this book you say rich countries are in turmoil because

a small fraction of refugees might defile their precious ethnic purity and you also quote the un figure of 65000000 refugees fleeing violence persecution and global warming why do you think they are presented in our media as the migrants and that the real enemy here is human trafficking not foreign policy. for the reasons that you just quoted and ironic but after a moment where they might be file racial purity we see in that issue or in human history it's disgraceful that shocking that has to be overcome europe's reaction to the refugee crisis is that specter will or europe is moving the setting up centers in the poorest countries in africa. to try to deter people from fleeing from the wreckage of european imperialism

to make sure that they don't get to europe sure's bribing turkey to keep them away from us you know the there's a reason why people are fleeing not because they love the euro is because of intolerable conditions largely created by a european terror and violence over centuries and now it's europe's responsibility to behave humanely towards. not to resort to the rapist pretenses in order to unhitch them for the for europe crimes same is true here when president troll. compels mexico to keep central american refugees from reaching the territory of the united states to full for asylum which they certainly deserve why

are they failing central american. not because they don't like their own bickering us terrorist lyall it's destroyed their country they're quite a few books people can read of us about that and that's terrible and violent i just . that you would agree presumably with donald trump however that our greatest immediate threat was a new planet holocaust caused by nuclear weapons agree with trump is racing towards maximize exist threat of nuclear weapons but why the. clock has been moved if the famous doomsday clock has been moved the minute then has been moved closer to midnight every year trump has been in office this last january they abandoned minutes moved to seconds

100 seconds to midnight since january trouble has continued as an act on the arms control regime which is has been the rule somewhat limited the enormous threat of nuclear destruction it already eliminated the i.n.f. treaty. couple of months ago more illuminating the open skies treaty which traces back to eisenhower he is no he laid on shrivel a screw delayed implement the renewal of the new start treaty. well now it may be too late to renew it and it's the last of the major treaties resumed war and beyond that were threatening to start nuclear testing as have been learned for 28 years all of this is on top of that moving towards

creating. new weapon new and or more threatening weapons of destruction against which there is no possible. democrats don't have a pretty record on this issue but nothing from well we invite we invite the u.s. ambassador on trump says actually he's all for peace obviously i'm finally i've got to ask you about julian a songe of wiki leaks he begins the trial of his life in 48 hours time in a london court the u.n. repertoire as we know on this show says he's been effectively tortured by british authorities what do you think it all mean if the wiki leaks founder is extradited to the united states on espionage charges it would be a criminal on the part of the british government to exceed 'd to the u.s.

and then an extradition. would be issued they've already committed many crimes. other surgeries of sense is not pain bill. now if he had good reasons not to as he would've been extradited if. not paying bill requires on the wrist not torture in a high security prison. up to the what reason not even a leader is allowed to receive books i'm in mass murderers or being treated like in a way beyond the worst vicious criminal ok and if he's extradited it comes up for trial on the us as spinoza's laws which even carry a potential death. it's trial is being. committed the crime of letting the general population know things that they have

a right to know that our full states don't want of the know that's the crime. and the way the british government is acting is deplorable. it or pressure again must be developed to ensure that each other be released quickly from these charges and that he be absolved of all these threats while u.k. prime minister mark johnson says it's only right that joining us on finally faces just as the u.k. government says it supports the important work of the un special rapporteur on torture but disagrees with a number of his observations as for the us sector say pompei or he says wiki leaks is a hostile intelligence agency noam chomsky thank you that's in for one of your favorite shows of the last season we will be back with a brand new season of going on the ground on january the 13th until then subscribe to the john on you tube to catch all the other interviews from this season and for online exclusive content merry christmas and i bet at 2021.

with time running out will. should donald trump intervene and stop the persecution of julian assange also as this tumultuous year comes to an end we assessed the cost to the average working people any quality just getting worse. shows seemed wrong why don't we all just don't call. me but yet to stamp out disdain become advocates and engagement equals betrayal.

when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. with the. russian british vaccine to create sure is sign a deal to test their covert jobs together in the hope of boosting their effectiveness. coming up in the program a new highly contagious covert strain discovered in the u.k. stirs international panic but the head of the russian for the sputnik the show seeks to dispel fears. sputniks you're only going to be surprised if the oh i was just really shocked and we actually got all spiky days from before and he didn't look back at this point.