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time after accounting and welcome to going on the ground the team and i will be back with a brand new season starting on my birthday january 13th but until then we will be showing some of your favorite shows from this season. i'm joined now from tucson arizona by one of the messages intellectuals on earth the father of modern linguistics american president no i'm trying to escape not thanks so much for coming back on the show so what is the global green new deal that's the new book climate crisis and the global green you deal and why is it to you the most important political plan and all of human history we're now facing a number of crises serious ones one crisis is the threat of climate environmental catastrophe we must move to net 0 emissions within a few decades. would goal of the green new deal is to provide

the means to do that the other problem which is arising with great hurry right now is the collapse of the economy as a result of the endemic no it is you know this is a very different kind of crisis from the financial crisis just time there is no escape through just consumer spending or oring money in the. stock market that's not going to do it we have to create a new economy which offers good job or constructive for. developing that finds of interest structures social environmental structure physical structure that we need the kind of goods that we need to live a decent life and that's the other half of the green new deal it is essential for not only for survival but for health issues you mention corona virus

how does coronavirus alter your analysis given that corona virus threatens corporate profits interstate lee it does not yet. fretman most corporate profits many corporations are making money hand over 'd fist now that high tech for example that it was $1.00 day in which jiffies us termed $13000000000.00 or they're going to hedge funds private equity funds old doing. the treasure is poor and money into the economy in a way which largely benefits them if you take a look at the economy take the united states but it's world will the stock market is breaking records poverty is riffing records they're totally dissociated and

that's. a sign of the eat disease of the economy which then only be overcome by the development of the policies. outlined in the details of the green new deal proposals what do you make of the continuing corporate reframing of the climate crisis it's up to ordinary people to recycle to buy organic food it's up to them rather than the need for systemic change naturally those who benefit from existing institutions do duck under see them changed not which rudd is a fairly good to tell a tarion dictatorship and there are problems the dictator isn't going to say overthrow me well that's a knowledge as to what you're describing the core of the problem is the. man to save. production for private profit not for need

and the you should the fossil fuels will be have to be phasing the mel and moving towards total sustainable energy no new emissions within a few decades we've talked to scientists about how deforestation led to coronavirus tell me about how in the book you talk about even strategies like red it's called ari d d it's funded by corporations to stop the forestation but in your book here say that it actually facilitates deforestation encourages it. helps corporate farmers at the expense of others why is it time and time again these strategies sponsored by governments and the world bank in that case seem to achieve the opposite effect i mean they may in the back of their minds decent intentions but they're

constrained by the nature of institutional power to develop programs which will not arm the our foliage the. most at the core. but will further ensure to their needs the result is policies which whatever their intentions are often negative in there we have to address the problems the rich without. giving priority to the needs of the destructive institutions there's no time to overcome who live in a we have to accommodate to their existence one of the timescale of institutional change is out of the range of time skill for dealing with the environment for asians so we have to work within the basic institutional structure that exists but

within it we can try and very clear definite o. ses there outline the my colleague poems which your view sions the book and so on the till which with a small percentage of the economy suffice to will suffice to deal with these twin programs has helped book actually go further than the road to hell being paved by good intentions because who want to shock people as you call it deliberately malicious a stake was just happening right in front of her eyes so the last few days was strong corporate backing the truck of ministration has been eliminating. regulations which protect the population and the environment

from release of methane and or snaked other trucks ways to the benefit of the corporate system not only the fossil fuel companies it banks finance them benefits them. severely harms the environment and harms the american people and then care of let's not malice what is now there may be somebody in the border who says it would be nice to deal with the environment and it would be nice to bill but when it comes to making specific decisions to maximize profit while market share all those good intentions faded to the back and the book the detail is clannad full employment is key bob calling quote calm ox saying capitalism require as unemployment

to diminish the boggling power of what because where is this green deal seems to provide for full employment. remember that we do not live in a capitalist society of the kind that marx was discussing marx was discussing quite properly an abstract form of capitalism which brings a its essential nature so every existence is watermill a formal state capitalism where state action has been undertaken under popular pressure to mitigate the destructive forces of pure capitalism so yes sure capitalism would require as mark says the reserve on nuclear but state capitalism and overcome the floor moved to guarantee employment and instead

a decent employment there for one doesn't do with all problems of capitalism in fact we were moving pretty close to formal full employment. under obama's so the tepid response to those financial questions continue to troll it was not the kind of full employment that any decent human being would want very large part of it was highly carious job but very look i've got to ask you did it surprise even you how capitalism has reinforced systems of power among elites even though it may endanger their own children suppose you're the c.e.o. of. j.p. morgan chase biggest bank were exxon mobil you basically have 2 choices

one choice is to meet the requirements of the institutional structures that exist and work to maximize profits. no matter what the human consequences that's one choice the other choice is to put those aside and work to create a decent world suppose you make such a choice in your beazley thrown out of the board of directors and somebody else is good in who makes the 1st choice these are institutional it's not individual it's no that's not to say that it would be changed within existing institutions it can so take j.p. morgan chase again biggest bank you know recently internal memo of the bank was leaked and made public was very interesting it warned the directors of the bank

that this in their words the survival of humanity is at stake if we continue on our present course of funding falso feels that it added that the bank is facing repeated taishan all risks meaning the public is getting and rage and will take its revenge on you and harm you the leaders of the bank unless you make moves towards. working to save humanity from destruction otherwise the banks will be taken over the public and national acts which then be done or at least by public things nuptial within reach and the leaders of the economy know that their old is quite fragile while everything seems nationalized here in britain more so than after the 2008 to crash

because of a pandemic and hundreds of people are being arrested on the streets of london as part of the extinction rebellion protest that j.p. morgan claims in public. rather than any mema fossil fuel loads for the arctic drilling have stopped their phasing out known for coal mining and they're planning a $200000000000.00 empowerment something called the empowerment economic development deal on pa with goldman sachs you mention exxon mobil well the bottom shelf says yes climate change is real yes renewables are an indispensable part of the future energy mix but no provoking provoking a sudden death of fossil fuel is not a plausible plan and then what you do is explain to the general public that this holds that they're serving their own interests and you must hold their feet to the fire to drop those pretenses and to do it they know is in fact

feasible and correct to move away from certainly from coal and from all 'd 'd fossil fuels as rapidly as we are involved in class war i want the ruling class doesn't say i'm just going to do it i want i don't care about you they can't they don't have that power their rule is fragile they know it therefore they must accommodate to an energized active engaged up you know asian exactly as is often done in the us the green new deal uses the phrase new deal because the new deal in the 1930 s. did something very similar. not on a sufficient scale but same kind of government action

to overcome a crisis deep crisis coal caused by the fundamental flaws of will a society and then came the war wish that slid more expense way beyond anything required. ended the depression created. a fenced. around of consumer demand which led to several decades of fairly rapid surely go there it grew and now i'm trying to scale stop you the more from one of the while the greatest public intellectuals after this break. with time running out will ensure that donald trump intervene and stop the

persecution of julian assange also as this tumultuous year comes to an end we assessed the cost to announce which working people any policy is getting worse. welcome back i'm still here with american president and author of the seminal manufacturing consent no i'm jones you mention the new deal clearly your primary process for the democrats did not elect bernie sanders who favored the new deal style politics here in britain of course jeremy corbyn lost the election what do you make of november you say in the book the democrats are in the pockets of wall street lobbyists the republicans you compared to right wing fringe parties of europe. we know that you know the republicans are.

they are in international comparisons they are compared with 3 parties in europe with neo fascist backgrounds and on issues like climate the worst in the world they want to trumpet ministration wants to race towards maximizing the use of fossil fuels eliminating the regulatory system which reduces somewhat their destructive effect on the climate on the population perfectly open about this not pretending anything otherwise take a look at the republican convention not a word about it just trying to rouse people's emotions fears a fear that wakes primacy. of the day with their guns and any emotional appeal you can imagine told very familiar from or

a product regimes with a new fresh. in the inside the democratic party there's a conflict striving. you can see it if you look closely at what's happened to climate you know back about 2 weeks take a look at the internet 2 weeks ago look for democratic party climate programs they're pretty progressive program was by his program forced on biden he didn't choose it forced on biden by the progress or praise 'd. program or that any of that it yet exist tailored at the same internet now to fill in right tray and clipped democratic climate programs which you find is nothing. they removed the d.n. the democratic national committee the d.n.c.

basically clintonite donor oriented democrats managed in a big power play to remove biden's progressive climate program that's a battle inside the democratic party is very rather similar to what we just saw and britain where 'd the blair right right wing labor party or the manager labor party managed to undermine the korban campaign in a really vicious matter there were very powerful 800 page deterrent study of how they did it. which is being most recent pressed in the british press budgetary and or which showed to means that they went to to try to undermine corbin's effort to develop the labor party that would be responsive to

the needs of its constituents with participatory labor party with policies that actually had very high approval among the government the right way for the labor party for the mentor they were already couldn't stand that they'd rather lose the election than lose control of the party 'd were saying something similar to that in the conflict within the democratic party today and what it means is the progressive base wants were harder more energetically more commitment traced by who wins the election to ensure that they go back to the impressive programs that they had announced and not be forced to abandon them by the donor oriented clintonite conservative element of the party of basically what used to be called moderate republicans but all of that has vastly overshadowed by the

desperate need to get rid of the malignancy in the way. which whatever criticism you make of the democratic party the white house will need nancy is incomparably more and will if that free. well we invite sukkahs starmer on to refute what you said about labor however he's seeking an investigation into our right to broadcast at all as joe biden apparently the policy hasn't changed 2 trillion dollars to boost clean energy and upgrade to $4000000.00 buildings a seeking of a shift towards public transportation but of course as you know in the most recent speech joe biden said no ban on fracking there are so many different aspects obviously to the green new deal but given that we've had the deaths of refugees

being reported here in the english channel and in this book you say rich countries are in turmoil because a small fraction of refugees might defile their precious ethnic purity and you also quote the u.n. figure of 65000000 refugees fleeing violence but as a cue from and global warming why do you think they are presented in our media as the migrants and that the real enemy here is human trafficking not foreign policy. for the reasons that you just quoted and ironic that after a moment. they might be file racial purity we see in that issue or in human history it's disgraceful that shocking that has to be overcome europe's reaction to the refugee crisis is that specter will

or europe is moving the setting up centers in the poorest countries in africa. to try to deter people from fleeing from the wreckage of european imperialism to make sure that they don't get to europe sure's bribing turkey to keep them away from us no the there's a reason why people are fleeing not because they love the euro as because of intolerable 'd conditions largely created by the european terror and violence over centuries and now it's europe's responsibility to behave humanely towards. not to resort to the racist pretenses in order to honest them for or for europe's crimes same is true here when

president troll. compels mexico to keep central american refugees from reaching the territory of the united states to pull for asylum which they certainly deserve why are they fleeing central america. not because they don't like their own bigger us terrorist while it's destroyed their country there quite a few books people can read of us about that and that's terrible and violent i just . that you would agree presumably with donald trump however that our greatest immediate threat was a nuclear holocaust caused by nuclear weapons agree with trump is racing towards maximize exist threat of nuclear weapons but why the the clock has been moved over the famous doomsday cook has been

moved a minute and has been moved closer to midnight every year the truck has been in office this last january they abandoned minutes moved to seconds 100 seconds to midnight since january trog has continued as an act on the arms control regime which is has been the rule somewhat limited the enormous threat of nuclear destruction. it already eliminated the i.n.f. treaty. couple months ago more chillun aided the open skies treaty which traces but was no he is no he laid on shrivel a skrull delayed implement the renewal of the new start treaty well now it may be too late to renew it and it's the last of the major treaty resumed

war and beyond that were threatening to start nuclear testing as a mill none for 28 years all of this is on top of that moving towards creating a new weapon new and or more threatening weapons of destruction against which there is no possible. democrats don't have a pretty record on this issue but nothing from well we invite we invite the u.s. ambassador on trump says actually he's all for peace obviously finally i've got to ask you about julian assange of wiki leaks he begins the trial of his life in 48 hours time in a london court the u.n. rabbitohs been on this show says he's been having 3 tortured by british authorities what do you think it all mean if the wiki leaks founder is extradited to the united

states on espionage charges it would be a criminal act on the part of the british government to exceed to the us then for extradition. it would be issued they've already committed many crimes. astonishes offense is not pain bill. now if he had good reasons not to as he would have been extradited if. not paying bill requires a pat on the wrist not torture in a high security prison. up to the what reason not even a leader is allowed to receive books i'm in mass murderers or 'd being treated like in a way beyond the worst vicious criminal ok and if he's extradited it comes up for trial on the us as spinoza's laws which even ceria tensional did. it's

trial is being. committed the crime of letting the general population know things that they have a right to know and that our full states don't want of the know that's the crime. and the way the british government is acting is to floor will. of it or pressure again must be developed to ensure that each and he were released quickly from these charges and. he be absolved of all these threats while u.k. prime minister barak johnson says it's only right that joining us on finally faces just as the government says it supports the important work of the un special rapporteur on torture but disagrees with a number of his observations as for the us sector say pompei or he says we can make it a hostile intelligence agency noam chomsky thank you that's in for one of your favorite shows of the last season we will be back with a brand new season of going on the ground on january the 13th until then subscribe

to the john on you tube to catch all the other interviews from this season and for online exclusive content merry christmas and i bet at 2021. seemed wrong. to me. to shape out these days because that's ahead and in games from an equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. with time money will and should intervene and stop the persecution of julian assange also as this tumultuous year comes to an end we assessed the cost.

inequality is only getting worse. headline stories rush british vaccine creates. a deal. together in the hope of boosting their effect of the. new highly contagious strain discover the u.k. stores international. but the head of the russian follow. the show it seeks to dispel fears. we. all aspire. to be.