united states which was kind of waning there was a progressive push to kind of nationalism the same place as racism or somebody or other things as something evil or something that you shouldn't be doing this if we were in a global world now nations are a thing of the past and i think that that every country has kind of recognize there's there's there's a balance there to be had and i think from kind of brought us back to that balance ok well that's kind of interesting i mean i mean because you know with great power politics it's every country you know thinks of themselves 1st ok and i would tend to agree with you is that you know when you look at you look at trade deal since the end of the 2nd world war a world that was think bring people into the western alliance in the united states pick up the slack well you do that for you know 567 decades it's ends up being quite costly ok and the working class i want to talk about that later in the program they're the ones that we're acutely aware of the most and that's why they voted for him and voted for him twice ok and i mean it when i look when i look at

conservatives as i mean oh there's obviously a very nice and ronald reagan a very strong libertarian element within conservatism and it's called fusion which i have my very strong doubts about but it seems to me that in the way a lot of traditional conservatives they're they're basically willing to fight the culture wars ok and not really look at. you know the king at reagan economics i don't think it worked it didn't work for them in the house majority of people for reasons that are there to say here i mean a little is a mix exports are jobs ok and then working working people revolted against that so is it really just about culture wars because that's what really gets all the news all the time is you know how you fall in the culture wars which you know that gets everyone's blood up and down the blue checks get really excited but it didn't really change the condition of the basque majority of the people that identify as being conserved. and there material can existence go ahead well i think that's

a really great question and i think at the end of the day we should be focusing on the economics because that is what people vote on that is why we saw so many working class people vote for him i happen to think he's dead wrong on economics though i don't think that the reason we've seen jobs leave this country have as much to do with trade deals or have as much to do with many of the other things that we saw him point towards immigration and other things of that nature rather i think they had a lot more to do with our actual economic policies here in this country which are pretty atrocious we have for many many years been making it a terrible business climate we've been raising our corporate tax rates we've been over regulating many many industries we have been pushing companies out because we've made it too expensive to do business here and that is what needs to be targeted and we actually see that many of the european countries are often pointed to as socialist countries have better free market economies than we do and actually ranked higher than us on the freedom and back scale and i think that that is

because if you look at what they did starting the 1990 s. they reversed course they moved back rooms in their socialist policies they started removing regulations they started increasing trade they started making it easier to get a job and to work and to make good pay that's what our focus should be on and i think that trans policies while well intended have missed the mark in that regard and i think had we seen another 4 years of trump seance coronavirus and the economic situation that that amplified we would have started to sell some of the effects of those policies that he was pushing around his trade well are the right way to find our way i don't see a big difference between republicans and democrats whatsoever. i don't really see that where the free market is i mean both parties and trump never really challenge corporate america as a matter of fact and much to my chagrin every time he said we'll look at the high stock market i mean what does that have to do with the average person it doesn't it all in not almost kind of insulting you know because oh bill you. your rich friends

are doing really well wonderful ok but what about us ok and i think that it has less to do with free markets and regulation then basically i mean the the it was the 1st stimulus package that went through i mean you checked up all your the richest people in the world got checked out 1st with concierge service ok that's nothing do with free trade not at all ok it means you're too big to fail go ahead or. i think that's going to issue for a long time i think actually i think a lot of the issues that face america and kind of the western world come down to that you have governments now that answer more to special interests or globalist organizations than they do to their own publics and kind of the voting public is more of a yes we can whip them up to support us that's our stamp of approval technically but when you look at the policy very little of it is actually going i know this would actually benefit a huge number of people it's really more of this make me look good or this is for my special interests. and i think that's where we get to the root problem and the

root of the trump phenomenon which was the idea that this guy is not someone who's been there for 40 years or for 60 years or whatever it is who is bought out and you know completely what's the word. he owes his his entire career to someone else this is someone who potentially could actually just an act all see that does good for us and i think even on the on the free trade part. you know i'm on the economics expert but from what i do know yeah you do want free trade you don't want free markets sure absolutely you know what i wanted to but it is over you what we have is too much monopoly control ok and no one you know the challenge that no one wants to challenge that it is a matter think they're given protections i mean look at the tech companies they're given amazing cut out that has nothing to do that is actually anti free market go ahead and i think i think this is the point that more libertarians and serves really need to focus on because it's it's a case where you do. to have

a socialism for kind of a certain class of people or certain group of people that are too big to fail and the government regulations about it is government involvement it's unholy alliance between corporatism and government that is and this is where actually what's interesting is i think in some ways the left got this right with their complaint of the one percent but then they've kind of gone too far with it and in some ways the right has gone this wrong with their with kind of throwing this unholy alliance of government and corporate into the idea of it's a free market which it's not. like you said it and i thought it was an empathy with that yeah and i just want to say i agree with everything he said and i absolutely say that the primary focus for us is people on the right as as conservatives as look kerry and needs to be on cronyism because it is an abundance and we have so many people in this country that are mad at the ramifications of cronyism and so they're demanding a new system right they blame capitalism because they think that this is how capitalism functions when really this is

a government functions when it gets involved in market in starts giving special favors and special deals to their bodies and it's wrong it's not free markets it is cronyism it's corrupt and it hurts people and i think that that's in that we should be able to form really big broad coalitions on even including people on the left because if you can help them understand why the things that they dislike what actually was i that this is exactly what i've been proposing for a long time you know i mean that they think the you know when the 1st stimulus you know all of the all of the super rich get were taken care of even if they didn't even need the money when that an echo of 2008 and that really angered me and then you tell tens of millions of people that you can't work you can't work you have to stay home all the politicians are being paid they were from their office you know and and that's when and this were more people on the right disagree with me and that's when you need to use the power of the state because if you tell people they can't work then you have to get it least make an attempt to help them ok to get.

through this tough patch that we're going through because everyone else is doing fine it's this is what really irritates a lot of people and we'll i guess we'll find out how much of an impact i had on this election because the dog tell you personally i have no idea what happened in this past election and i don't know we're going to know what happened for a very long time but these these are you know it we're rapidly running on time for the 1st part of the program but i want to in the 2nd part of the program i want to talk about the issue of class and how this plays into conservatism because i think this is an open lane that i think the conservatives chapt and think about more seriously and we have to worry about all of the money that's in politics because you know if we take if we start looking at the needs of the working class they will vote republican and we know that for a fact because. the working class did support from at least that's what they were told here i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on conservatism state authority.

the pandemic knows you know blood is. nationalities. as a word. we do a back seat world. commentary . we can do better we should. everyone is contributing way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenges created with the response has been so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together.

today the industry prefers to spend millions of euros you know the. d.-day regulations will be all about making money making profits big corporations international markets import export do you imagine the number of chronic diseases that are in every community. due to new viruses own new microbes that is not true so it is due to. disability. really sick you really could only come in to see them to. ask if the so food industry is successful it will create more jobs it will create more value added it will create more growth so i don't see why we shouldn't also

fight for the interest something interesting outset that we are british and we want regulation i was in just belief we don't behave zinnias penalty just fine. welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm peter remind you we're talking about what it means to be a conservative today. i'm going to go back to him and handed him the election results that we've been given number one trump. got over 10000000 more votes and when you look at the the people in voting for me it's surprised a lot of the left wing pundits they probably want to admit it but more blacks more brown people more even women. voted for donald trump and a lot of these people come from the working class is this an opportunity for

republicans specifically to make up. more appealing case for working people because the democrats are the party of big media hollywood and the very very poor and i mean they make sure that they have a voting base that are there or that look for dependency on the government but working people just want to work ok is this an opportunity for the republicans to kind of rethink their the way they approach the electorate yeah absolutely peter and i think that we're seeing a real shift in the parties right now in this country and have been seeing that chef since about 2012 and you know in the party shift will look back in 2 decades and say oh this is what was happening then when you're in the midst of a kind of feel crazy but what we're seeing ringback is we are seeing a large amount of people disinterested with the democrat party right like they've been making their case they've built the party they currently have in the 1960 s. so they've been out here with these policies and these ideas and with the same base for you know 4 or 5 decades and people are fed up they are kind of hitting this

point they're saying you know what you guys actually never come through you keep saying you're for the working class you keep saying you're for us you keep saying you're going to improve these things and you don't actually do it and so there's a i think there is a real openness to look at other ideas and to move directions and and i think to some extent you see that on the right as well just not as in large numbers so i think we're going to continue seeing some migration between both parties but i certainly think there's a case to be made within republicanism for why these ideas work for everybody and they do it right if we really get it right if we really get down to a true free market capitalism if we get the government out of the way if we actually let people work then really cool things can happen we've seen them happen in our country before we've seen amazing wealth creation and a vacation we've seen great progress we've seen quality of life increase and so i think that the door's wide open and i'm excited to see who steps through it what kind of leaders might emerge from this i'm curious to see specifically you know as somebody who's more on the libertarian end of the conservative movement i'd like to

see some people like rand paul continue to gain prominence and make this case and and i think that i find there's real you know futile soul soil. to do that and that we could really create a new coalition what about josh ali i hate josh ali i mean i think i could say ok but i got nothing they don't matter don't actually manage it i think josh only is a very prominent prospect for the republican party because i think he's willing to look reshuffle the deck and look at things afresh i'm just putting that out there because i actually have a lot of bad for josh ali and bernie sanders the 2 senators and then the 98 hour cowards they just didn't want to do anything and i think it is absolutely shameful and i appreciate what just if they have bernie sanders ok but to be honest with you arthur what is what do you think about that because when you think logic would kind of dictate you know when you look at the blue states that's where the working class are clobbered the most but they vote lou i mean isn't this an opportunity to kind of you know go into that lane that no one is in and just say and i mean if i would

have been trump during the campaign because i thought he ran an awful campaign awful and so did the biden people that the american people deserve much better ok but if i had been donald trump i would have taken the bowie poll pope and just said i will keep you whole and if the republicans are behind me then i won't support you in this campaign because when you look at the campaign coming up in georgia every single conservative should be terrified of you know why because people voted for trump they didn't vote for republicans they voted for trump ok and they did and you know the people around trum a lot of them libertarian excuse me hanna gave him very bad advice during a time libertarian and hang on during a time when he needed to be an f.d.r. and he didn't do it or. i think there's 2 points of this i think the 1st point is. on the one hand trump seemed almost torn like you had his instincts that had he

gone with them i think you would have been 10 times better that he get done 10 times better than he did but i think he's been torn by whatever i don't know if it's advice that i'm not part of his inner circle obviously but for some reason he seem to be 2nd guessing and i was on corona that was on different policies later as a lot of stuff this last year and a half or so leading up to the election that. seemed like he wasn't trump and on the other hand i think the one thing that trump did. to be honest i don't think the republican party would have won another election we saw for a long long time had not been for trump i think that he kind of brought in something that was even more than just the economics economics is important i mean ever meets a pay their bills but he brought in some like almost a feeling of the past and i mean this in a good way where it was like you know what we can belong to something we can belong to this country and this is a great country and it's ok to love it and so k.

to love the constitution and the values and principles it's founded on so people love these things and that and everyone here if you're here in this country and you're american you belong to this and we can rally around that and i think that that inspired a lot of people and that's why you have these election results that are better than romney or mccain or you know any of these guys that came before and i think how the republican party gone the way that they were going with romney and mccain i think it would have just been a dud just another day $2620.00 and i mean you know you know it no matter what happens a b.b.q. the republican party is always going to be jeb bush ok and if you if you push against it like trump did they are going to abandon you with some notable exceptions and media the republican party did not back donald trump it was the base that did it in spite of the party either ship and i and i find it very very frustrating because it's one of these weird things happen at one of these we'll we

go where things is because in the republican party is popular because of donald trump not because of the other luminaries in the party at all they're not particularly popular and for very good reason i mean they think they're not charisma i think they they we tax cut do you like rate the you regulate done our work is done we're going home that's all they say and that doesn't resonate with working people they say well what about us you know just says you know the health care for all is popular very popular with trump. orders though the republican leadership doesn't want to recognize that but it's an absolute fact it does because it's popular doesn't mean we do it socialism is popular and i don't want to try that out like that's not a case of simply then you know you want to stop the conversation ok you say single payer ok if these scare tactics i think people are tired of and i'm going to scare not have any hope of him a lot of republican supporters a lot of trouble supporters don't say that they say we'd like some more health care

can you help thank you thank you and so go vote for the democrats because they've been offering that free piggy bank of taxpayer dollars for agger and what have you got obamacare another corporate deal another corporate thing ok and that's all anybody will ever be because that's how serious while people get different talking points behind the scenes but these parties operate at virtually the exact same manner they're always enriching themselves there always are renting their bodies and any mass the piece of legislation you get through congress is going to look like that until you get serious and fix the money in politics so that's that's just kind of besides the point that doesn't really matter and whether or not i think you're out a deal or you're saying to not be saying is that it's a broken politics is that you can't do anything about it and that you know you can focus in on the wrong things and you can do something about it but that's not what we're fighting about we're largely fighting about the system systemic symptoms to years 2 years all of the government was is everything ok and what did they do they didn't even do infrastructure ok they did

a tax cut you know trump's presidency it was that is lowest point his popularity was at its lowest point when they passed a tax cut now that's good for rich people ok fine ok i don't begrudge them but it didn't it didn't impact the working class voters ok and so and then if you look if you look you know i go to are there here is that when it was most popular among republicans during the impeachment ok when he was being impeached he was. the most popular the highest point there ok well what i'm trying to get at is that if trump in been much more imaginative in using his popularity and his coattails you could have gotten something but he didn't push health care reform which he said he would during the campaign and he didn't do anything about infrastructure which i think would have been the most important legacy of his presidency and it is a footnote now go ahead i think i think one of the things to keep in mind too is if

you this is the thing when you vote in an outsider is everything's up hell right this is a big club as as hannah was saying government especially united states but everyone westmoreland's a big club and if you're an outsider you're not one of the boys and so it's going to be a struggle to get anything done especially trying to do anything that's different that's not you know about the tide a little bit but i think too to the point you were saying earlier and to what hannah was saying as well i think for conservatives particularly libertarians and anyone who kind of loves freedom i think it's time now to take the old talking points in the old kind of ways of doing things. maybe not toss them out but maybe reimagine them because even let's take health care for example i'm canadian i have canadian health care and you know to be very frank it is nice to not worry about. my you know ok my bill i have i have a home there too i don't you think about health care do you think about it i really

don't but don't you think there's a downside to this that we kind of found out during this virus where when the government owns your health care all the some the government gets to dictate things to you and you don't have that choice now sadly of us doesn't have a whole lot of choice either 0 it's kind of a bad mix of both right but when you have those options when you have you know maybe there's some sort of protected insurance that can be put out there that's made so that i don't know i'm not going to pretend to come up with a policy right now that you said you said or heard just said regards what are you saying let's try to reimagine and i think that's the best place to start and that's the best place to start and take you know the these assumptions that are been you know carved into stone and rethink them you know we're rapidly running out of time and it would you. i suppose you do not want to see donald trump run again in 2024 i don't but i do agree with are there i think that we need to come up with

better solutions i think the reason you see people asking for single payer health care is because nobody has said here's an alternate that's better and it could work better than that and that needs to happen i have a really big bone to pick with people on the right of conscience a no no no no no to suggestions of policies on the left and then never come up with their own ideas that's quite frustrating when you need to see people step into that but i will leave you with this donald trump lost most of the swing states by a margin and that was less than the number of libertarian votes in that state so had he gotten more to reach out to libertarian voters like myself you could be seen as president right now that is the 1st time i've heard that and that's absolutely fascinating. i'm still trying to figure out what actually happened in the election but. but i have no doubt that we'll be looking forward to a ministration ok that's all the time we have here i want to thank my guests in greenville an interrupt i want to thank our viewers for watching us here on. you see you next time and remember.

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a. call back to. 00. repatriations forget the rest to 70. delegates separate guys record. americans love. this was a fundamental part of how our political leadership and our country at large understood the bargain you get a hope and then you know rebel right as the things you don't revolt if you have a stake in the system. of the really interesting back and think about the longer deeper history housings men in the united states not just that question of the american dream but the bigger question of who the dream is for.

seemed wrong. to me to be yet to shape out this day in the conflict educate and in. equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart. choose to look for common ground. she should think of those who did just that in japanese and i. don't mind it just commision on that. pose the shuttles all. the time because of the my face you know along today my country of the not of the establishment the map. about the economy to have more than a last step to set. down

the must think i don't know i mean that i'm still a grinder. i'm almost around to. use the term obama momentum to. look at what's going to become a monk point out of homeland going to come up thinking i'm up to snuff she was hoping to go to the missing office and i think i mean come on we have to get out but i don't going home. was a pandemic no certainly no borders and i'm just delighted to nationalities. as a muddled up with the we don't look like seeing the whole world needs to be.

judged as coming every crisis with this system to more times we can do better we should. everyone is contributing way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenges created the response has been much so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together. narrators rooms for their carers gun another researcher if. their marriage. is weapon of mass communication is spreading into the narrative that way to marinate the day when the end of m.t.v.

has been presented to mobile devices more than 12000000000 going to monitor the country and if you don't need to book that to your mother mary earlier against alternative vision. if you start to question a regulator the excelsior airtight your mr can you tell me to marry it up for your video errantly undercover and i'm going to destabilize the area if you will get exposed or i'll take your kids way decontaminate with my low self your audience is as brave it was and to. trip down. near narrow you can defend yourself i enjoyed reforms from the

weapons of mass communication. protect the teeth earth to the enemy of the interview earlier. in the day headline news donald trump refuses to approve a covert stimulus package negotiated for months by congress the president says the spending plans focused too much on foreign aid and don't provide enough support for america congress found plenty of money for a far drawn. trees lobbyists and special interests while sending the bare minimum to the american people. also this hour the french government backs a bill on so-called green passports freeing up travel for people vaccinated against critics say the move would turn everyone else into.