in development city of courts excavating the future of los angeles here is 15 years ago and why should be we be so worried about it is a switch is infected under $200.00 people killed less than 100 where we live in a world where millions of people die every year from the laryea tuberculosis hiv and the answer of course is the experience of humanity in 24 weeks 1918 went between 40 and a 100000000 people died of a pandemic influenza this is the greatest mortality of that in human history there's been 2 subsequent pandemics 19571968 neither were anywhere as steadily as 1918 and then suddenly in 1997 this new flu emerged in hong kong and scientists discovered to their whore that rather than being incubated in a pig or a human being who had been cohen fact it was several strains of the flu it jumped

directly from birds to humans that's mike davis speaking in 25 on the threat of a flu type pandemic killing in the own abreu world his warnings are arguably not taken seriously by policymakers think tanks and politicians is 25 book the monster at our door is now called the monster and is with a brand new preface and he joins me now from los angeles mike welcome to going on the ground you've been on well i understand just take us through how you came to write to the new preface as the full horror of the pandemic we came up aaron's the book you originally. published right out to the operation in 2003 i think i wrote it in 2005 this is avian flu and at the time it looked like booze immovably faced with a pandemic flu the biggest disastrous is the 1980 spanish flu it was warning about the emergence of a slew of there i am told age 5

n one. which had an extraordinary high rate but since the book was written several new her height is of influence a equally steadily. and troubling have arisen in on a very limited scale infected humans the spread of an influenza pandemic. as steadily as 189-9900 remains absolutely a minute and serving as an in discuss sharing a pandemic is the. importance of developing a universal flu vaccine there to tax the in very in various parts of the service in of influenza and can give a siri from every poor even in influenza has we should realize that this is not a pandemic it's the beginning of an age of pandemics.

battery searchers in china base the institute. that's come under attack from president truman. have done a service in research and discovery reserve or more than 350 proper births 500 varieties of pro viruses all with the potential to jump to mammal other mammals and eventually humans. in china now the. who's there is most the largest group of mammals in the world. fly their bats 1500 species about 200 species have now been studied to some extent or another so there's a whole universe of trone of viruses there has well as many other kinds of viruses that. are part of the natural reserve war

and is corporate law again an expansion of clear cut in and earn agriculture break down the barriers between you know assume the animals of the rain forests around the world as we destroy israel for is we're ever increasing the possibility the transmission of viruses and the possibility of new pandemics and you kind of imply there there's no cover up when no one else was conceived as concerned as you were the information you say was out there similarly we're not being told now we live in the age of coronaviruses plural because why because there's no cover up but there's a structural. well one of the things the troubled ministration did and in this country the attack on. research on potentially pandemic diseases and in

general one public health sort of the day or 2 is not your asian is he defunded. an american sponsored program there was an early warning system through the emergence of novel lyra says in diseases in china and in southeast asia. he also of course fired the team on the national security council that obama had created in the aftermath of the. the blow of deadly ebola happy demick in west africa. to deal with a pandemic which it was universally agreed. was any need for at the united states some other countries i mean the warnings about this since. the beginning of the millennium have been constant the planning. has been kind of the reports

have been gotten since but it's suddenly the united states it seemed your country and. most countries of western europe are always planning came to not it was largely ignored and now in my country. president trout has who he says are all on which is a medical spokesman name scott adler's he's a park's news commentator who exactly parrots the line that the trouble ministration expresses that a mass probably useless schoolchildren don't transmit the earth and to make the test change should be limited to only people in critically endangered groups travis a says things that he says off of the united states doing better and he certainly

is doing better than they're the united kingdom on deaths per capita well in the case of britain i mean i think you know i'm. it is now obvious that a deliberate strategy of herd immunity. was followed that the johnson government. deliberately decided to minimize damage to. the economy by letting the disease essentially spread and the catastrophic failure of the u.k. government. to come immediately to the aid of people in senior homes and. nursing moms nyquist same thing as news sweden which explicitly. darted herd immunity and behind this there is a kind of. would i would consider enormous new nazi. germany as it were whole lies unworthy of light and the whole idea that some part

of the population is sacrifice that will prove the greater good of the economy through credit diabolic there well obviously we invite the swedish ambassador. to london and on the program sweden did say that they have made some mistakes so that it has any nazi activity and as far as transom they moved away from her the immunity and there's presumably going to be a public inquiry here as to what exactly british policy was but more systemically since you mention the economy rather than just talk about the preventative elements now we have that pandemic is. are we to expect pandemics because of capitalism we've now seen. how rapidly virus can be transmitted around the world but the point is that this resides a very old debate about global health and one side of it

was focus soon. is represented for instance the 19 twenties and thirties by the rockefeller foundation which was the largest financier of disease prevention of the global scale and within the british empire and the rockefeller paradigm was not areaway campaign sargon as pacific at the german or as civic bacteria that. passage on the nearest side repeating where if it is something whole social medicine which said that attacking the pathogen alone without attacking the poverty of the population the lack of primary care would always be a put side of the whole and this is could not be more true than. today we see around the world and not only in court. whose public help pages.

have been ravaged to realign its generation but in the united states and united kingdom were health care and public health authorities necessary to protect their protector particularly out to the 2008 the economic crisis since visible and most here in the trades east asia. has been an exception. just some except for is there is reasons for it in the atlantic not always. will now see the price paid by conservative cisco policies in a new liberal economic so you really think that it's comparable thing in fact that of the 1918 spanish flu famously. spread through the trenches it's

comparable to post 2008 infrastructural incapacitation after the bank bailout well there 918 example in ologies percy's constant way but in 189090 new jersey people new world died of insolence and more than 20 orian died in india and in western india as a result the. food elite grain picked term and other policies that exported massive amounts. in ingrained just feed the indian armies in the field through war. it was associated so food prices rose sequel and india the same time there was a drought and bad cholera epidemic sooty had this huge party lation.

who are people with compromised immune systems and i am arguing that in saturday we have to recognize that some in immunological standpoint well nearly 2 new manager he's in new u.k. the united states maybe a 5th of the art. is immunologically compromised it's not just because cancers and diseases but also because of malnutrition co-exist seen sections like hiv but in poor countries in sub-saharan africa and south asia and many parts of white merican. the majority of the population up to 75 percent. is in this position be gender a true. endemic i should say that they un special rapporteur who talked about

increasing malnutrition after $28.00 in britain have he said it was a political decision the british government denied that completely michael stopping that more from mike davis after this break. television. demonstrators right now the propaganda machine. is russia. going to go go go go. i'm sure.

let's go let's go. to the way.

welcome back i'm still here with the american scholar who forecast a global zoonotic we transmitted pandemic more than a decade and a half before coronavirus mike davis you say that in the united states where more people are being killed in any other than the nation with the most deaths you believe the john bolton. that former national security adviser is key to understanding why pandemic planning went so badly. well bowman's decision was to reorganize endemic preparedness to fire the crack team that obama had put in place he wanted everything focused on on bio warfare but the larger phenomenon of course is trumps absolute obsession with destroying and dismantling their everything that. the previous president if put in a put in place remember this regime came into power valley to destroy the fordable

care or obamacare and is constantly trying to do things like take the budget earth centers for disease control. if you look at this internationally you see that the media agencies traditionally lead agencies in disease have been marginalized in the view issue as you noted totally marginal who all this center produces control of the united states has had a totally marginal role in the european union where there exists a protocol. for countries to cooperate in responding to transnational disease or soon as totally new or to expose the trouble ministration would say about the cat had many critics left and right and that has many critics

as well. of of course but the fundamental problem you are with the job you is sure is in structural this financial countries started pay their dues their w.h.o. has become totally dependent. on aid coming from a handful of governments and from the pharmaceutical industry and from a few philanthropy well let's just go to the big pharmaceutical companies because in this book you do talk about the role of private health insurance and big pharmaceutical companies as being maligned act as if i mean this pandemic was that well the big pharmaceutical industries. which are always represented as being the main sage towards earth to disease the heroic innovators to earth new vaccines and drugs they become anything but in the

case united states and through $950.00 s. . the leading force the development of antibiotics for instance was actually armed forces the u.s. army there is an important state rule in other words in the development of new pharmaceutical treatments put under big pharma. the the profits are made in developing heart medicines or serious fruit erectile disfunction and old men like like me not in developing a new generation of our vanities and above all not in an eye virals in vaccines which we have to develop may only be used to. once so big pharma his coat back massively on on research and spends far more on average tyson and it just doesn't take any leadership in developing. jugs

and bank c.d.'s that are not highly probable but absolutely necessary for societies or home as you know they do deny that they say they're doing their best they're involved in a new super national initiative against coronavirus just very briefly i did mention private health insurance you see that a symbiotic with this in october of last year. the council of economic advisers issued a report on possible demick. it is already seen as is imminent in it they point out and advise the president that big pharma will be incapable of meeting. the challenge of a pandemic prove precisely the absence of a strong profit motive in developing a nano by rules and in back scenes this is would every big pharma says especially

with knowledge by by the government a new corps might in egypt. critics of big pharma private health care a court is its lead to new reasons of americans tens of millions of americans without health care and that number is dramatically increased to poor is as people have lost their jobs in july base. health insurance and i think this sanders campaign really sent to skinny was absolutely correct to put the universal health care bridge at the forefront of the campaign and then is actually massive support of you may think it's a minority position for which you're in the news but survey after survey shows that a to 70 percent of americans just really want some form of single payer. health care which of course was of course by reject that he wanted but in the book you

also talk about the c.d.c. is this not just all private bad public the c.d.c. with such a reputation around the world for disease control in the united states and around the world they rejected the w h o developed covert testing kit that shocked you. yeah it is it is shocking they also had another alternative which was the other test kit insists it is centrally 3 separate ters and they could eliminate the flawed 3rd tears and so had a viable so why would they have done the. well that's a very interesting question they were defending true the problem with the tears was it was actually contamination in their own production lines in georgia the c.d.c. totally. loses and losing through 4 weeks of testing

allowed the disease to grow exponentially so and marge who started off with a handful of untested cases by the end of march it was increasing exponentially or over. there were several 100000 cases of its continued to urge to grow having that the c.d.c. is obviously we invite them on and there they say they're doing everything by the board who also actually talk about the fame thing happening with the immunity test i understand but the p.p.a. catastrophe you blame jared and vice president pat. yes. and in many others earn including. tony fauci who has true liberal americans in fact are majority americans because the the good doctor on the spark talking in the

truth so long as it's now sit back at the end of january was showing people absolutely no need so where were mass and he later admitted he views same as because. the drastic shortage of protective gear through hospital were his decisions in nurses but the one you see lied to the american public and this initial publicity campaign to discourage people from going out and trying to buy on a mass is said to her alone lansing in very bitter effect where the doctor fouty obviously a hero to liberal media played by brad pitt in saturday night live with the deny anything he did was against clinical procedure and best interests of the american people what do you make of the fact they don't no one seems to really be talking

about something like factory farming we had dr rob wallace he was telling us about the relationship between factory farming and coronavirus why do you think that's just not the subject of debate about when it comes to coronavirus in public discourse in nato nations. that of course is in part made in the largest for the the problem with the democratic party and the app measures it takes around issues of public health in the origination of the epidemy. diseases because instead the endemic threat can be kind of triangulated $2.00 to $3.00 things one is factory farm and the orbit is asian super sation of animals that maximizes. the probability of a viral evolution in transmission the 2nd is the those still destruction

the natural or it's there who traditionally isolated us from these enormous by rumors of wars. and wild animal populations but the 3rd part and the most important has been the constant reduction of public in basic elp budgets. across the world i mean many african countries only have a beer or some once of public service some why sierra leone not at all which is why the ball spread so rapidly a few years ago the in in western africa so each each point on their trying will have to see each side has to be. address and into we see that in reinvesting in basic healthcare. it's the absolute.

a purty. we're going to see it. future appeared to mix. in a sense repeat the pattern that seemed so not the solution a weapon the solution how so lie on each of these 3 points of in socialized a revolt the destruction truck wars in this investment in basic you know just very briefly america since you are speaking to us from los angeles and here are the greatest chronicler of it sir history i better ask you even though tens of thousands upon tens of thousands are being killed in your country by covert what you are made of in this incarnation of the civil rights struggle of black lives matter protests raging across the united states look after their only send use in-session to joe biden. tens of thousands of young activist ideal words were basically lurked in the desert

the. toll the bully all you should do is going out there any people militant vote in this rebellious generations sense was saved by clients matter. and. it's been a. movement i can't really think of it they're all in terms of its rapid development who could have. that the question basic fundamental question and it's. about all these thing in the need to please him. would have been put on international agenda if you know to look for those who are seen on once in impossible so the black lights natter protests in addition to reminding us that civil rights have been under relentless attack for the republicans. for 2 decades or to create

a template for resistance and a far broader scale one of the things that i've been most concerned is the rule of unions in. protesting developing a strategy to run. in a dangerous conditions the so-called this essential work force in the health care workers is absolutely outrageous the other day. a report from the nurses. united national nurses you know sounded one 3rd of the nurses nicklin 3 still alive you know access to this project. here they should add to the end i need fly. mass so months later on stage months into. mme that program unit is yet to be sold well donald trump says he's protecting the most vulnerable mike davis thank you beth and i want to your

favorite shows of the last season we will be back with a brand new season of going on the ground on january the 13th until then subscribe to the john on you tube to catch all the other interviews from this season for online exclusive content merry christmas and a better 2021. year old is driven by a drunk. person. in a day or thinks. we dare to ask.

join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to a guest of the world of politics or business i'm showbusiness i'll see that. in a new round of clemency donald trump. or on the phone both convicted as part of the russian. who's the father of the president's. his time in office door still closed the president also vetoes the u.s. defense bill branding it unconstitutional. and the french government backs a controversial green passports allowing travel and other activities for people vaccinated against. critics say the move will turn everyone else into some class citizens. because a reporter just a few.