convicted on charges of corruption which saw him in prison for $580.00 days over the so-called operation call wash the largest corruption probe in the nation's history that discovered vast contracts for kickbacks involving the ruling elite his imprisonment arguably catalyze the election of hire while scenario is president of that in america's largest country brazil's most popular politician to anything i think a little of the silver brought tens of millions of his people out of poverty and into education as president he joins me now from the 4th most populous city in the world sao paolo former president thank you being on going underground what a journey you've been on 1st why are you accusing your successor higher both of our oh of genocide. for a very simple reason our president did not take care of brazil and of the brazilian people as he should have done. this pandemic did not reach brazil without prior notice but. we already had the experience of what was going on you know the

countries around the world and the president should have simply done the obvious. only what common sense teaches us to do. the president since he doesn't know about anything except weapons and violence. should have set up a technical committee with experts and scientists. he should have gathered all state governors as well as mez and established a crisis committee to guide brazilian society. to participate in the process of mitigating the in parts of the pandemic in brazil he did not do this he decried the pandemic he said that people should not wear masks he prescribed a drug called chloroquine to the population. without any scientific basis and to this date he continues to vulgarize death because effectively he does not believe in science nor in the brazilian people and he does not respect individuals.

the only thing he does is compliment trump. and to try to copy the same foolish things that trump does in the us. well we invite brazil's ambassador london on the show presumably president bolton are would dispute what your saying and in fairness brazil's death rate per capita is less than that here in britain you do presumably though agree with also narrow that cuban doctors should have been let back into brazil you have cause new female castro know the as well. the cuban doctors provided an extraordinary service in brazil. they assisted 60000000 people. and they were excellent examples of how doctors should conduct their work. they did not only prescribe drugs and make diagnostics. but they tried to do more than that

. they treated people with love with care. they were going to people's homes. the fact that the brazilian government sent the cuban doctors away. and that president raul castro decided to call doctors back his because he does not agree with the fascist who ruled brazil. i know that the cuban doctors could have helped many countries around the world because kiba has many more doctors proportionally to its population than any other country in the world i am very proud of belonging to the political party that brought doctors from cuba to save lives in brazil and to katha the poor population in the periphery around our country. now of course it could have been you that was president presiding over the coronavirus in brazil it's a long story but very briefly why is it who is president and not who is in power

you know action in brazil some important things took place that the world needs to know about. for the 1st time in its history during my government. brazil became an international player brazil had created. demonstrating a beautiful relationship within south america. brazil had developed a relationship between south america and africa. between south america and the arab countries. brazil had taken part in the creation of the brics. brazil had created i . was becoming an international player and that is something that the americans never allowed. now brazil is returning to the colonial period. after the coup on president dilma they would never want to have lula back as the president of the republic to continue our domestic social inclusion policy. and our international

protection is in policy. they want brazil to continue to be a colony. so they conjured this law i called the car wash operation against me they invented a large airing the procedure they condemned me without any evidence i prove my innocence and i am waiting for them to prove any guilt on my part i have challenge the federal prosecutor and the judge who headed my trial. but i am much more concerned with brazil at this moment. we had to eliminate hunger in brazil and hunger has returned. yet we were in the process of raising education in this country and now we have a great setback in education as well as in science and technology. we have major setbacks in the environmental legislation in deforestation and in the preservation of our forests and our water sources. obviously brazil would be better

off if i had been allowed to be a candidate. they withdrew my candidacy for president with a legal procedure. because they knew that if i ran in the elections i would have won in the 1st round. and here in brazil a part of the country's elite cannot stand to see poor people eating in restaurants . or traveling by plane. oh buying cars. they cannot stand to see poor people ascending. which is what we did through hundreds of public policies to improve the lives of the poor people in this country . i am proud that the president of the united nations acknowledged that brazil i had eliminated hunger i am proud that in 2010 brazil was the country with the highest level of hope in the world with the happiest people in the world because we

had so many expectations so many dreams and brazil was about to become the 5th global economy. now we see brazil experiencing a rise in poverty. people are hungry in sao paolo in rio de janeiro and all over the country people have gone back to the streets wages dropped drastically and unemployment has risen. this is the country of the fascists who rule it. i want a democratic country a sovereign country a country where people are happy and proud to say that they are brazilian. there's no doubt that you brought tens of millions of people out of poverty and into education but when you were in that jail cell did you not regret leaving those very elites in power in your 2 terms as president and self leaving them in power to

prosecute you both was that your greatest mistake. i won an election i did not start a revolution i do not believe that to metalwork a like myself could have become president of the republic if it had not been for democracy and if it had not been the most of all for democracy and for the brazilian peoples comprehension and maturity when they voted. i confess that i wrote for all. i doubt that there was any moment. in brazilian history when everyone benefited so much. that it is true that business is one. it is true that bankers won. it is true that made landowners won but it is also true that the poor work is one too. we have the greatest wage rise for the poor people jerry my government the greatest rise in education we are

already known in history as the government that built the greatest number of universities and technical schools that invested the most in science and technology and for sure we must have made mistakes or else there would have been no coup against president obama. the coup was the beginning of a new attitude in brazil. in my opinion it was organized by the us department of justice. with the participation of the cia. we have video recordings. set the intercept is publicly exposed all the scams of the federal prosecutor and judge morrow. and the participation of the us d.o.j. . in destroying the construction and engineering segment in brazil. the gas industry in brazil. and the country's politics.

because the us never accepted the fact that brazil would become an international player. you must remember that the us and europe had a hard time dealing with iran. because they could not reach an agreement with regards to your rein him in richmond. ambassador. and i went to iran with the president of turkey. yes and we were successful in convincing iran to accept an agreement which was better than this deal that was signed by the americans and the european union. regretfully when we proposed the agreement. and i expected that the us in europe would find brazil and turkey. yet. instead they applied more sanctions against iran. in a clear demonstration. that they were telling us that brazil is

a small 3rd world country. that cannot meddle with major countries if as. well the right wing the media the said it's worth destroying brazilian companies if it root out corruption you mentioned. the the justice minister of all the narrow as well as being your prosecutor who is who was then fired do you think he will run for president had 2022 and what sort of president believe me. one finger i pray to god every day. i am sure that morrow and the lognormal. must take very heavy drugs to sleep. because their conscious is not calm. they know that they lied about me. and i don't start to like no no say he formed a gang in the car wash task force others to pass on information to the u.s.

. and to strike a deal a financial deal even through which the large no would raise a 2000000 rail fund to do something here in brazil. my conscience is calm. because my innocence is proven. right now i want to prove their guilt in the crimes they committed against brazil. attempting to destroy brazil sovereignty. today i do not feel any hatred all resentment i'm actually destined to continue fighting for democracy. because as you know. although i will be 75 years old in october the 27th that. i have the energy of a 30 year old and the political well of a 20 year old. therefore i still have a lot of energy to fight for democracy and for the brazilian people.

and also to try to contribute to a world with new leaders. a more impact us and a break from politics. because well governance nowadays has been outsourced crises are no longer managed by governments but rather that by bureaucrats so there are no more political leaders and this weakens politics and originates people of the likes of trump on both sonora i know you're not going to announce on going underground that you're running for the presidency at 2022 for president i'll stop you there more from the former president of brazil credited with lifting millions out of poverty after this short break.

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race is on off and spearing dramatic development only personally i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical of time time to sit down and talk. an entire village in alaska has had to move if another country trying to wipe out an american town. we do everything in our power to protect. water they escaping climate change poses the same threat right now alaska has seen some of the fastest coastal erosion in the world we lost about 30 feet. 35 feet of ground in just about 3 months while we were measuring. is fast and that

means the river is 35 closer in town than was for i think were part of the 1st for. words. welcome back i'm still here with the 35th president of brazil live though i do want to ask you something about another element to the carwash saga even donald trump talks about the military industrial complex that eisenhower mentioned do you believe that the nuclear submarine howl contract alerted the united states military industrial complex used car wash and that ended up in the destruction of the p.t. government in brazil. i am certain that the americans did not agree that we

should settle an agreement with france to build a nuclear submarine. i am certain that they did not appreciate it when i created the south american defense secretary act. because as soon as we discovered the pre-sold oil which was the major oil discovery of the 21st century. 100000 meters deep in the atlantic ocean. the americans announced that they would grant surveys that 4th maritime fluent in the atlantic ocean. which would cease to operate after world war 2. our oil is on the maritime border of our international waters so i believe that the us truly are interested in taking over all royal. navy. just as they grab so much oil in so many countries around the world.

as you know option all political confusions around the world occur because of oil and the americans do not want petro bras nor the brazilian people to keep all that oil. obviously washington denies that but then how innocent were you and dilma rousseff you know about edward snowden in moscow says there are wiretaps on phone calls that lead to the n.s.a. to the u.s. security state you knew a good job as he told you about the coup in venezuela how innocent were you when dilma rousseff was in power that they were going to get you. you know action i had a fantastic relationship with president chavez for many years. and i created a group of friends of venezuela to prevent any american intervention. and we were very successful during the bush administration and later in the obama

administration. with the following phrase the people of venezuela take care of democracy in venezuela. an american citizen who wins elections based on fake news like trump. has no moral or forward to talk about democracy. likewise balsa naro in brazil certainly i may have being naive as well as dilma. in believing in democracy and believing in the conduct of the brazilian elite and we are paying the price for that books nevertheless i think that the solution is a democratic one involves democracy. freedom of the press freedom of labor unions freedom of association respect to human rights. this is what motivates me and this is what i will fight for. because it is only

with democracy that we will be able to improve the quality of life of the poor. of the workers and of the excluded people in our country. it is true that the americans may hate snowden because he was a state department employee and he leaked information. but the fact is that the song should be considered a hero by all democratic countries around the world. because he was the one who use code in the leaks to expose us espionage. competitor bras in brazil. germany in argentina in front. that is signs cannot be handed over to the us. a son should win the nobel peace prize because he moneys to expose the rotten espionage of the us in the rest of the world. but

it is a pity that european south american countries. are not brave enough to stand up for us our god. for all the good you did to mankind. well the un special rapporteur on torture said on this program the julian assange is being tortured by u.k. authorities his controversial extradition trials taking place here in london but the u.n. claims that the media smeared him you mentioned hugo chavez i understand venezuela's leader once asked you just a hotel a sore television when he created it and you said you wouldn't need didn't know why after 2 terms as president why did you do nothing to reform all agog owned media in brazil i didn't do anything because in brazil. to change the rules for the media you need to submit a bill to be voted in the national congress. and the majority in congress and being so conservative that. it will never approve the rules to make the media more

democratic. we created a public t.v. channel. certainly we did not make the necessary investments. to make it competitive not financially competitive but competitive with regards to providing more information to society. we see something i regret not having done. we developed a project to regulate the media it was complete by mid 2009. we did not have support from congress because elections would be held the following year and we left it for the new administration. which is one thing that we will need to do when the p t returns to the government. because information that is meant for society cannot have an owner. information cannot be conveyed to society.

from the viewpoint of the economy. or of a part of that society. but of course you will depend on that media the p.t. party with the flag behind you there will depend on that all agog media to give a fair representation before brazilians go to the polls in 2022 i've got to ask about the rain forests because of the implications of coronavirus of global warming what do you think will happen to them if both and are or if morrow becomes president enjoyed the 22. morrow will never become president. it was fabricated by globo t.v. . moro is an invention of the media. and without the media he is nothing. that morrow is a citizen who i believe seems to be a coward because i have challenged him to debate with me now that he's no longer

a judge he could debate with me but he won't and i do not think globo will have the guts to support him. but if he is it is not a problem until. the amazon must remain a problem for the brazilian society. and does not need to have squatters or invaders. instead of cattle breeders and soybean pharmacy. like the amazon needs to be occupied by research as. all the jest and scientists like to study its products and animals. and all the pharmacological welfare has. as well as its potential to feed all society. is extraordinary for mankind and brazil needs to have the obligations. the moral and ethical commitment. to preserve the amazon in order to provide balance to planet earth. this isn't the

responsibility of the both government. which has destroyed the entire surveillance system. that even the director of the agency that money to deforestation with spatial imaging was dismissed. why why don't you don't now they are blaming the indigenous people in the small farmers for deforestation. i have high hopes that in 2022. weeks brazil will return to democracy. that the people will elect a democrat for president who respects the environment and our aspace. abo orders. and who knows the meaning of our country's sovereignty. finally when the door of one of venezuela the european union just like washington refused to accept him as president of venezuela they opted for one why though the cia readily admits to its

history of attempts on the lives of leaders in the global south both of those it was the 1st brazilian leader to actually visit the cia's headquarters in langley how sure are you that there will be attempts on your life if the p.t. wins in 2022. i have no certainty. but that will not keep me from doing anything. i'm convinced that the only solution we have is to strengthen democracy. including the american people now. with the elections. they have the right to change american politics. by electing someone who is civilized. someone who has some humanity. or. someone who has at least some respect for blacks for native americans. for the way men and for differences between human beings.

like therefore we have the duty to rebuild democracy in the world. so that we can prevent the destruction of planet earth. which is like a boat and we are all sinking in it. i think we need to realize that the americans are going backwards in exercising democracy. recently i saw trump calling obama a communist. i'm calling biden a communist. calling clinton a communist he doesn't even know what communism is. that is i think ignorance is defeating intelligence. and it is not possible that intelligence humanism and solidarity need to be restored in the world the world today is being ruled by committees not by government. i think the governments need to recover

their role in governance including the united nations. or the un needs to change its role. there today's un cannot be the same as it was in 1988. we need to have african countries in the un security council we need latin american countries in the security council. and countries like india. that. it cannot be the same 5 countries as in 1948. we need to create a new global governance. and 948 the un was strong enough to create the state of israel. in 2020 the un does not have the power to create a palestinian state but. it is shameful because we need to rediscuss the role

of the un and other institutions. we need to discuss the i.m.f. what is the use of the i.m.f. what is the use of the world bank. i have already talked to pope francis i have gone to the world council of churches in geneva. we need a global campaign against inequality on our planet. where it is not possible that half a dozen entrepreneurs. in digital corporations. make in one year what billions of human beings do not ever have. we also need to discuss the role of capitalism. and i am willing to do this without the silver thank you that's it for one of your favorite shows of the last season we will be back with a brand new season of going on the ground on january the 13th until then subscribe to the john one you've got to all the other interviews for this season for online exclusive content merry christmas and

a better 2021. americans love buying homes. this was a fundamental part of how our political leadership and our country at large understood the bargain you get a hoe and then you know rebel right that's the things you don't revolt if you have a stake in the system. and be really interesting to dial it back and think about the longer deeper history housings men in the united states not just that question of the american dream but the bigger question if you had the dream and for .

italy sued the government for its perceived mishandling of the pandemic as they grieve relatives of lost. we speak to their lawyer. my clients were not informed about the presence of a dangerous and highly contagious virus immediately they were told off until march but it was little more than a treatable in fashion. over 60 get vaccinated with russia sputnik. as the country's health ministry approved its useful what elderly people. and russia's long awaited 5th generation fighter jets. up close and.