hello and welcome to cross talk we're all face or considered i'm peter lavelle 2020 has been a year like no other how has the kobe crisis changed our lives how will that continue to shape our lives moving forward and what have we lost things and ideas that may never return. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest marcus papadopoulos in london he's a historian analyst and author of the forthcoming book a rise rossiya the return of russia to world politics in oxford we have mark allman he is director of the prices research institute and in budapest we crossed to george samueli he's an arthur and a you tuber at the gaggle are across the uk rules in effect that means you can jump

in anytime you want and i always appreciate it let's go to mark here you know mark in preparing for this program he's jogging down some notes about how i reflect upon this year let me just read you a couple of bold points health dictatorship through fear has become central to our lives we go from one crisis to the next crisis cove it isn't authoritarians dream come true. good faith thinking is gone social media using censorship and the science which has been completely discredited there's no such thing as the science the media will tell you otherwise and probably most importantly what is happening to the social contract now i just read you 123-4567 things take one of the. well i think we could begin really with as you say the science in a sense human experience if we think back to 100 years ago when the great spanish flu epidemic or even 60 years ago and so hong kong flu. the extraordinary thing is

the degree to which the current epidemic has led to huge social changes and what social disciplinary changes that those didn't have and in a sense also they didn't really have a legacy did they they were huge events catastrophic events but they cost. us in the ability interesting thing here and it comes to hope social discipline question if the culture changes is that across the world certainly across the northern hemisphere in which they australasia people are adapting to a whole new set of behavioral rules which have come into force very quickly social distancing how you manage your life the. economic activities social activities cultural activities and seem to accept that in the extraordinary way and it in a sense i don't myself subscribe to the idea that it was a pre-planned or thought through but it has revealed us for instance one of our chief expose of advising the government yes said yesterday. the

chinese in a sense pioneered a way of showing how easy it was to get people to conform to extraordinary restrictions with very very little resistance and this may be necessary to control a contagious disease what else could it in a sense set off that's the real danger in the future i think you know you know mark it's not i'm also a scribe you know i don't believe this is a tensional but obviously for many in power and in the business world and in social media this is an opportunity they just can't let pass go ahead as well in a sense need to be expensive when seen as being extremely hard long. occupation in the united states although we have seen the british government's refused sort of measures to protect its livelihoods and as a result in science its friends. close to one a 1000000 british he has lost their jobs so from all we have witnessed the british government's systematically erodes civil liberties in its some crimes clients

against what is known as 9 st compare and contrast the how the british parties have responded to cope with not seeing how the russian authorities have responded it's a quite benign seeing in russia devotion government has made its a very clear there will be no restrictions on civil liberties concerns him into its inmates it's also abundantly clear that if russians want to have the massing they made if they do not want to have it's been there will be no notification that's placed on their lives that is not what we are seeing in britain the british government is toying with the idea of on the one hand making that same mandatory oh that's on the other hand they might not make it mandatory however what they are implying is that if you do not have a vaccine you may be refused entry city education hospitals and what places but i also want to add that in 2020 it is also being business as usual so to speak

to some countries so for example america has continued to consider it's an economic war against iran america has a tendency to weaken the russian federation in your by for example henson's instigates occur in belorussia and by redeploying american forces from germany to poland which is a flagrant violation of the nato russia pounding that's all 997 so yes 2020 has been a shock and they are poorly and yet some countries have continued to add attempts to achieve our objectives in the most milliken it's a matter as there will never never let a crisis go to waste that's what we learned in 2. 20 you know george you night on the gaggle were talking about this phenomenon of how accepting. western

apologies have been to these restrictions here and i'd like to throw into it is that you know that the media is playing a very. negative role through all of this because when i when i see the media questioning authority saying why didn't you instituted earlier what why was it more stringent i mean it's a there's no questioning about you know is this miss make any sense because this woman in california has an outdoor counting but she can operate it but within a stone's throw away of the hollywood production company has this almost the identical campaign but they can operate you know that only a very small number of people in the media have looked at the glaring contradiction here but media for the most part and is just you know saluting and doing what they're told because it's the science go ahead george that's absolutely right and mock corrective ones do that if i have a meeting interview with the professor neil ferguson. in which he's saying that the idea of a lockdown really came from china and while the chinese were doing it people thought

of ferguson been really believe that you could do this in the west though there are a great idea but if it were to work in the west because we're also used to democracy and for me them and we wouldn't tolerate government spending us what was there what he found out that the western public was very follower of. and that i think is really. shocking development because. the science underlying cope with is very very questionable i mean everything we've known about the disease suggests that the lockdowns the economic dislocations and everything has been wildly disproportionate to the threat of the disease actually rose i mean we know the average age of the beds of these we know that. most. the public overwhelming majority of the public if they get the virus they will make a full speedy recovery from it yet is i don't know that there is always russia well

these most draconian measures and that's why it is very reasonable to speculate well in the public be prepared for something else this is now going to be the new normal draconian social reorganization all the desired goals were growth and of course i mean i talked about in that also here about the great reset and i hope you see that means different things to different people well what do you think western remembrance of public service of clients saw all of this should and i don't know if there's a real answer for it yet ok because like all of us are shocked by it. con will tell if they remain plan but i think it's worth thinking about in the context even all of the types of mass casualty incidents to use those horrible phrases western countries not least in my states have become very risk averse to casualties in war for their own side so we have massive bombardment bombing and cruise missiles and so on and we have 0 casualties on our side perhaps tens of thousands on the other

and in a sense we're now seeing this as an epidemiological phenomenon that we don't feel able to sustain a loss of life in the way that previous flu pandemics caused in the 20th century now this may be in a certain way a good sign that we're becoming more humane but it's also if you like the me generation to isn't it it's because they still threat to me that therefore i demand that everybody conform to very strict conditions of behavior which may in fact cause collateral damage on a huge scale to use military term because we may see people forced into unemployment to destitution despair and suicide and so the downsides of luck i think can become more apparent and then we'll have to ask is this cultural revolution that we think we've been saying all apes sati that is pliable to the fear all visible enemy. actually remain passive and be doomed if you really have a lone scale of unemployment in particular affecting a lot of younger people who are already entering

a very precarious economic system already and then find that they don't even it went to the economic system of the baltimore rungs because the bottom rungs of the whole service sector all those who do things that student age and young twenty's people who have been kicked away. is this mantra also of safety 1st which on its face i think obviously makes sense you should he care but also when it does is in the way that is being propounded is that you there is no risk taking take and you kind of about your absolved of any kind of personal responsibility of your behavior i think this is one of the think the miscalculations of these lockdowns in the west is that you know you know be responsible take care of your health and be aware of other people's health care you know their weight the way they've done it is that you know you know forcing a self induced coma for the economy that's not safety 1st is markets 40 point now we have substance abuse we have suicide we have families being broken up and then

the despair of the economic situation so this mantra of safety 1st has been taken to bars an overreach in my opinion because it takes responsibility for away from the individual go ahead marcus and i say 1st of all it's us that profess a new focus and who is being decided in this program already by children and lot has been a sin for us support of lockdowns if he did not say it's here so the sons in law himself and i would also say that new focus and gives a whole new meaning to the well it's incompetence now let's recall it's the british people the british people paid as a whole lost the ability to think by for independently and critically many is a go and i would launch an aid. put that down to the diabolical effects off of neo liberal economics and neo liberal cultural values and i use the word

cultural in a very loose way the average british person today peter is more interested in reality television in supply pretty culture in the sexuality of people on television as opposed to what is going on around them in society indeed the average british person pizza is prepared to listen to simpletons like piers morgan and phillip schofield who know that nothing about international relations they know nothing about politics they know nothing about thought only g but they want to turn someone who can some know about syria to know about any other aspects of international affairs as opposed to listen it's a real it's a real expert market i would posit that why these people have their jobs ok i mean it's no mistake ok i mean maybe this is who the elites turn to to. explain and expand their agenda. i'm

a societal wide basis here i gentlemen wait i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break well can you our discussion on the code crisis and its legacy stay with r.t. . backscatter this is the kaiser report with stacy herbert an special year and gas guy the man could do i must say have the kind of sensitivity to world events and markets rarely seen anywhere except here i kind of report from it welcome back. americans love.

this was a fundamental part of how our political leadership and our country at large understood the bargain you get a hope and then you know rebel right as the things you don't revolt if you have a stake in the system. and think about the longer deeper history housings men in the united states not just that question of the american dream but the bigger question of who the dream is for. welcome back to cross talk were all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're talking about the impact of the crisis.

when i was going to back to georgia in budapest there's already been mentioned in this program here and something i want to talk about is the absolute incompetence of the elites that have been making decisions about how we live and how we should live into the future and and the way i look at it is that these decisions 1st of all are very self-serving all these people that talk about the science on cable they all got a paycheck uninterrupted during all of this ok uninterrupted ok but then let's see the downside i mean the way i look at it is that it's working people it's middle class families and middle class values i would even go 'd as far as say about i've been crushed during all this and on top and some of the most basic things that will bring us all together that prior to this we had even if we're on the left or the right we believe in freedom of speech freedom of assembly breed among worship and all these things are being put to a test and and there's not a enough push back as far as i'm concerned because you take these things away

they're very hard to get back go ahead george. exactly right that that was right near us that we can begin to. think that has emerged in this is going to cope with crisis is that the elites of new boy and girl who are against the public it's really it's like everything is not all it's all the public isn't. aware of. it going out. there i think maintaining the. people the parable. that i'll be behaving badly. and then we see the parallel with the environmental hysteria over global warming is syria where being on it that terrible people are being punished for their way for ways the excessive addiction to cost dishwashers the washing machine. you will live thought and they must be punished

and that really was the whole parable about there's a lot of work to the public of the old bill of goods that were resistant to the environmental coercion i have been resistant to this because they got really bad that this is going to be horrific the laying weight 'd of the nation to the well and then they broke into that and as you say once you give up these breeds and very hard to get them back because the government are in love with that it's live from the rollout of the vaccine but nothing is going to change that it is good that you know you think you're going to get the vaccine and you know you will be able to do anything without the vaccine but you're still going to have to make days go who doesn't think you will have to go around wearing a mosque and just to keep a lockdown no prospects of any opening of lockdown so. things like the government have the power and they are going to give it up without you know mark

a cynic would say and i'm saying that this is a template for whatever is the term determined to be next. the climate crisis ok we have to be we have to deal with the name the movement climate so i'm not here to discuss the you know made climate crisis and that on its own but it's you know people are being conditioned there is a paradigm out there there's the jews and the job don't and there's the power of the state and again the media shoring up the state and its agenda and its ideologies marcos' already pointed out here to me it does not worry you you know if you know it's it's a form. social control because you know you know these people think they're doing the right knee i mean just like george said you know we want to get rid of your carbon footprint and then a good idea you know well i mean if you're i don't know i'm like you're going to have to me. in a sense what we've seen in the last 20 or 30 years is the emergence of a new cureton ism which has nothing to do with classic characters in terms of

regulating people's morality or sexuality indeed it is very almost it of that but on all these other issues it is very strict and it's good for your soul that you would discipline the new pay attention to the rules and that any breach of the rule needs you to complete social ostracism and so in that sense we see a kind of midst 16th century kill christmas because it's wicked stop above 80 not because you want help but because you want to stop the people enjoying it that kind of mentality that kind of psychology has come back with a vengeance through these processes and of course there's enough problem calls by called it or there is enough. also billeted all environmental problems caused by changes in the climate to give to people who have without perhaps realizing it as you say deep cycle to motivation to control and discipline and even punishment and so on to say to make them feel that they are doing the right thing the anybody who opposes them doesn't need to listen to and i think this is the group i'm coming to a point about the science science has advanced through the dissident galileo would

never been allowed to be published in and learned journal today because the ptolemaic consensus would have said but he's outside all consensus same with einstein's are in fact it's always the oddballs lunatics are the ones who make progress and then they become the orthodoxy of their ideas become ill to talk c.m.l. quite often i write but at a certain point as we saw with newton's physics it turns out not to be adequate and einstein can replace it and einstein now just seems a bit old hat to and this is i think the great danger that people latching on to something that gives them a talisman it used to be a religious thing but now it's science science is the totems science has become a mock to everything must be sacrificed by people who have the slightest idea. actually what is saw. with the big thing that's absolutely right marcus i mean and it's this is one of the great tragedies of this year is that the science as people like to say has been politicized i mean you can if you can you serve in science in the service of your agenda i mean and i mean in so many different ways and this is

this is this illusion many people have has been where is the science where you know you still have your elites fighting on their private jets but i'm i'm not supposed to drive my car from this hour to this hour i mean i mean it's so glaring for some people here and it does go back down to where this sense of social control that and they truly believe it's a positive impairment and i think that's i think that's what really scares me because these are like ideologically possessed people that really really think that they're really close to helping you but it doesn't change their lifestyles that affect the rich people in this world that got a far more richer during this crisis here is really one of the great oddities of this crisis as well go ahead mark marcus and saks and i had a case about for the last 20 years. the parties will british establishment people after it's has been the shooter in a hell it's in fact it's agenda and i would consent that's ransom 20

has been canceled for the british establishment and it's shit major and he. has really that message it's very very clear to those of us in the u.k. think person independent read and critically because what we have seen are grits and signs and trends is the media are to not buy a platform to x. its investments who has a difference of opinion on what is known as benign seem to have a distance opinion on a lot downs on social distancing and the way in the halls trace mosques now paints are. whenever the major niamh platform needs an expert it's a nasty words the a lot bells go off in my head and it doesn't matter what the subject sangre it really is it could be russia it could be syria it could be north korea it could be iran it could be the british major wasted not

a platform and indeed batesville us why anyone who challenges the british on countries such as russia or hong that should be most discounts in its nonsense and people who think independently and critically and that's what we have seen in 2028 groups in concert in what is known as night saying if you have a difference of opinion on the virus you have been demonized you have been xina fights you are going to choose the being mentally ill your law it's yours or endangering the lives of tens of millions of brits and even people like hillary johnson professor newman sachs and broke the lock downs which states are often the cold war now is not is not a concern some people then i see. these people do not even have a single drain so between now you know george you and i you know we have a talked about the passing of the great stephen cohen here and i think all of us

would agree and most of our audience if not all of our audience. think i'm stephen cohen is one of the great russianness of our time but how much time did he get on the airwaves of a preciously little though you have other people that have no idea where russia is fighting up on and on on twitter all the time in georgia in one of the things because we're rapidly running on time here is that a lot of these elites they presume wars in the name of democracy here but where has been the democracy in all of these shutdowns and lock downs i mean you have to scare any of the executive and and there's been a little bit of pushback on that and i'm. glad to see it but it's only happening after almost a year of this year but at the end of the day it's not what the people want it's what they are told and george and i know that you know american experience the best mean you have these. governors that are essentially up functioning as dictators i mean an executive order can can't doesn't necessarily make it constitutional and

this is something that's being challenge go ahead george. exactly and what we normally think of in the practice of democracies is negative ration elected representative the blade and pall mall but instead what we have in the united states or the united kingdom is the big government big that which from one day to the leg become old and the police. or with some brutality and protests are and 7 the gloves on and with the goal posts of constantly being moved. exactly and that's what we've been talking about the strong i think well what is the science there is extensive a disagreement about coded as to whether really it's any. more the air is the there's the coronaviruses of the been around forever that the debate about them

often about whether the mafia use or i'm one of the scientists would say that camp would meet with going like that people are suffering from all kinds of. psychological problems something to be increasing that also is fine but with people it brian but i mean the scientists who then have you know all the sciences who are presenting a very different view about the enable the coercion to take place and i was going to budget in the mainstream media for. all of the social media which was supposed to provide a little girl as it were for a bigger role in the name of you know whatever the reigning ideology well it's in preparing interesting gentlemen i hope you'll join me here on cross not exactly one year from now and we'll find out if what we've been talking about was a bad year or just the beginning of a trend that none of us have any control over here i want to thank my guests in

london upset in budapest one big our viewers for watching us here are d.c. an experiment remember. all right. earlier it was a different dead parrot is gone another researcher is. a ballet. masters weapon of mass communication is spreading in developing aircraft and in that way to marinate the dangers of the gender of m.t.v.'s the visitors and of mobile devices more than 12000000000 contaminated country if you don't need to know about that to your mother your friends are already against alternative vision. you'll start to question

all of that your way to excel the. latest that can happen to marinate in a period or maybe a narrow stay under cover integrated estate outside. and you will get exposed to a particular conflates decontaminate will i love to help you i'll use it as break everything to. track down. where. you can defend yourself i enjoy the ones from the weapons of mass communication. or transfer the teen girls give the enemy up to interview earlier.

in the day indiscreet pieces of clues then millions of you will listen. you know being. a regulation is. all about making money making profits it's about big corporations international markets import export do you imagine the number of chronic diseases that are in every community today it is not due to new viruses or new microbes that is not true so it is due to environment. or the moment all discipline. really just accumulate could only come in the day you see in the police. departments in the sky if the so food industry is successful it will create more jobs it will create more value added it will create more growth so i don't see why we shouldn't also fight for the interest something into street except that we have regulation we want regulation has an industry and if we don't behave zinnias penalty that's fine.

a lot in this monday morning 9 am here now full intensive care units force california clinics to set up makeshift wards and beds outdoors while nurse issues an emotional appeal. we're stuck now we were running low on oxygen on supplies he have patients in overflow overflow overflow areas. there's a vaccination with a sputnik very covert job starting for people over 60 the group most affected by the virus after the health ministry approved the child's safety and efficacy.