things and ideas that may never return. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest marcus papadopoulos in london he's a historian analyst and author of the forthcoming book arise rosia the return of russia to world politics in oxford we have mark allman he is director of the prices research institute and in budapest we cross to georgia samueli is an arthur and a you tuber at the gaggle are across the uk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it let's go to mark here you know mark in preparing for this program he just jotted down some notes about how i reflect upon this year let me just read you a couple of bullet points healthy tater ship through fear has become central to our lives we go from one crisis to the next crisis cove it isn't authoritarians dream come true. good faith thinking is gone social media using

censorship and science which has been completely discredited there is no such thing as the science the media will tell you otherwise and probably most importantly what is happening to the social contract now i just read you 123-4567 things take one of the. well i think we could begin really with as you say the science in a sense human experience if we think back to 100 years ago when the great spanish flu epidemic or even 60 years ago and so hong kong flu. the extraordinary thing is the degree to which the current epidemic has led to huge social changes and what social disciplinary changes that those didn't have and in a sense also they didn't really have a legacy did they they were huge events catastrophic events but they cost. us i think the ability interesting thing here and it comes to hope social discipline question if the culture changes is that across the world certainly across the

northern hemisphere in which they australasia people are adapting to a whole new set of behavioral rules which have come into force very quickly social distancing how you manage your life the. economic activities social activities cultural activities and seem to accept that in the extraordinary way and it in a sense i don't myself subscribe to the idea that it was a pre-planned or thought through but it has revealed us for instance one of our chief expose of advising the government yes said yesterday. the chinese in a sense pioneered a way of showing how easy it was to get people to conform to extraordinary restrictions with very very little resistance and this may be necessary to control a contagious disease what else could it in a sense set off that's the real danger in the future i think you know and you know mark it's not i'm also a scribe you know i don't believe this is a tensional but obviously for many in power and in the business world and in social

media this is an opportunity they just can't let pass go ahead as well in a sense need to be it's once it's when seen as being it's really hard long. occupation in the united states although we have seen the british government refused sort of measures to protect livelihoods and as a result in science it's friends. close to one a 1000000 british he has lost their jobs saw them all we have witnessed the british governments systematically erodes civil liberties in it's so current finds against what is known as 9 st compare and contrast how the british parties have responded to cope with not seeing how the russian authorities have responded it's a quite benign seeing in russia the russian government has made its a very clear there will be no restrictions on civil liberties concerns him into its inmates it's also abundantly clear that if russians want to have the massing they

made if they do not want to have it's been there will be no notification is placed on their lives that is not what we are seeing in britain the british government is toying with the idea of on the one hand making that same out of the tree oh that's on the other hand they might not make it mandatory however what they are implying is that if you do not have the vaccine you may be refused entry to education hospitals and what places but i also want to have that in 2020 it is also being business as usual so to speak to some countries say for example america has continued to consider it's an economic war against iran america has a tendency to weaken the russian federation in your by for example 10 since it instigates occurred in belorussia and by redeploying american forces from germany

to poland which is a flagrant violation of the nato russian pounding that's all 997 so yes 2020 has been a shockingly arcudi and yet some countries have continued to add attempts to achieve our objectives in the most milliken it's a matter as there will never never let a crisis go to waste that's what we learned in 2. 20 you know george you night on the gaggle were talking about this phenomenon of how accepting. western apologies have been to these restrictions here and i'd like to throw into it is that you know that the media is playing a very. negative role through all of this because when i when i see the media questioning authorities you know why didn't you instituted earlier why was it more stringent i mean it's a there's no questioning about you know is this miss make any sense because this woman in california has an outdoor counting but she can operate it but within

a stone's throw away the hollywood production company has almost the identical campaign but they can operate you know that only a very small number of people in the media have looked at the glaring contradiction here but media for the most part and is just you know saluting and doing what they're told because it's the science go ahead george oh that's absolutely right and mock corrective ones do that if i have a meeting interview with professor neil ferguson. in which he's saying that the idea of a lot of downs really came from china and while the chinese were doing it people thought of ferguson been really believe that you could do this in the west. great idea but if it were to work in the west because we're also used to democracy in for me them and we wouldn't tolerate government telling us what was there what he found out that the western public was very follower of. and that i think is really the most shocking development because. the science underlying cope with is very very

questionable i mean everything we've known about the disease suggests that the markdowns the economic dislocations and everything has been wildly disproportionate to the threat of the disease actually proses i mean we know the average age of the beds of these we know that. most. that the public overwhelming majority of the public if they get the virus they will make a full speedy recovery from it yet despite all of that there is still the pressure on these most draconian measures and that's why it's very reasonable the speculators well in the public be prepared for something else this is now going to be the new wall of draconian social reorganization all the desired goal of liberal i mean you know i talked about in the hearing about the great recession and you know how do you see that means different things to different people or more

what why do you think was to rebrand the public's resupply and so on all of this and i don't know if there's a real answer for it yet ok because all of us are shocked by it. conall tell if they remain plan but i think it's worth thinking about in the context even all of the types of mass casualty incident sees as horrible phases western countries not least in my states have become very risk averse to casualties in war for their own side so we use massive bombardment bombing and cruise missiles and so on and we have 0 casualties on our side perhaps tens of thousands on the other and in a sense we're now seeing this as an epidemiological phenomenon that we don't feel able to sustain a loss of life in the way that previous flu pandemics caused in the 20th century now this may be in a certain way a good sign that we're becoming more humane but it's also if you are the me generation too isn't it it's because this to me that there are i demand everybody conform to very strict provisions of behavior which may impact calls collateral

damage on a huge scale to use military term because we may see fast numbers of people forced into unemployment to destitution despair and suicide and so the downsides all look alike and then become more apparent and then we have to ask is this cultural revolution that we think we've been saying all apes started that is pliable to the fear of isabel and i may with. actually remain passive and to be didn't if you really have a lone scale of unemployment in particular affecting a lot of younger people who are already entering a very precarious economic system already and then find that they don't even it went to the economic system of the baltimore rungs because the bottom rungs of the whole service sector are all the sort of things that student age and young twenty's people who have been kicked away. is this mantra also of safety 1st which on its face i think obviously makes sense you should he care but also when it does is in the way that is being propounded is that you there is no risk taking take and

you kind of about your absolved of any kind of personal responsibility of your behavior i think this is one of the think the miscalculations of these lockdowns in the west is that you know you know be responsible take care of your health and be aware of other people's health care and you know their weight the way they've done it is that you know you know forcing a self induced coma for the economy that's not safety 1st as markets party pointed out we have substance abuse we have suicide we have families being broken up and then the despair of the economic situation so this mantra of safety 1st has been taken to bars an overreach in my opinion because it takes responsibility for away from the individual go ahead marcus and i say 1st of all that professor knew ferguson who is being decided in this program already by children and lot has been a city for us support of lockdowns if he did not sits here so the sons in

law himself and i would also focus and gives a whole new meaning to the well it's incompetence now let's recall it's the british people the british people paid as a whole lost the ability to think by for independently and critically many is a go and i would launch an aid. put that down to the diabolical effects all for neo liberal economics and neo liberal cultural values and i use the word cultural in a very loose way the average british passenger today peter is more interested in reality television in supply pretty culture in the sexuality of people on television as opposed to what is going on around them in society indeed the average british person pizza is prepared to listen to simpletons like piers morgan

and phillip schofield who know that nothing about international relations they know nothing about politics they know nothing about thought all a-g. but they want someone who pays who can some know about syria so know about any other aspects of international affairs as opposed to listen it's a real it's a real expert market i would posit that why these people have their jobs ok i mean it's no mistake ok i mean me and this is who the elites turn to to. explain and expand their agenda. i'm a societal wide basis here i gentlemen wait i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the kobe crisis and its legacy stay with r.t. .

the world is drawn by. dares. we dare to ask. max keiser this is the kaiser report with stacy herbert and special year end guest misfires di. i must say the kind of sensitivity to world events of markets rarely seen anywhere except here on mitt welcome back.

this is nothing like football. it's not a money spinner but it is expensive. and it's dangerous. and this is. the breaks it's a. welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter about to remind you we're talking about the impact of the kobe crisis.

when i was going to back to georgia in budapest there's already been mentioned in this program here and something i want to talk about is the absolute incompetence of the elites that have been making decisions about how we live and how we should live into the future and and the way i look at it is. these decisions 1st are very self-serving all these people that talk about the science on cable they all got a paycheck uninterrupted during all of this uninterrupted ok but then let's see the downside i mean the way i look at it is it is working people in the past families and middle class values i would even go as far as say that i've been crushed during all this and all suffered some of the most basic things that of bringing us all together that prior to this we had even if we're on the left or the right we believe in freedom of speech freedom of assembly breed them of worship and all

these things are being put to a test and and there's not an unofficial mascot far as i'm concerned because you take these things away they're very hard to get back go ahead george well that's exactly right that's. right nina of the whole situation because the one i think that has emerged in the during the cobra crisis is that the elite has used the bully and coercion against the public is really had by everything is the public the public isn't being candid enough to know where in ma sufficiently we're going out socializing too much without maintaining the air at the people the terrible rate and more man that i'll be behaving the more and then we see the parallel with the environment for his burial the global warming is that we're being on it that terrible people are being punished for their weight for weight excessive addiction

to come. dishwater washing machine or the you will live thought and they must be punished and that really was the whole parable about this a lot of the work of the public at the ball the bill of goods they were resistant to the environmental cause or should have been resistant to this because they got really bad that this is going to be a horrid. the laying weight 'd of the nation the well and then they broke into that and as the saying once you give up the reed and were able to get them back because the government are in love with very liberal the roll out of the back but nothing is going to change that it is good that you know you're going to get the back knee and you know you will be able to do anything without exactly but you're still going to have to make days. you will have to go around wearing a mock i'm going to sneak people locked down no prospect of any opening a lot of them so i. think like the government have the power and they aren't going

to give it up without you know mark a cynic would say and i think that this is a template for whatever is determined determined to be next. the climate crisis ok we have to do we have to deal with the name the moving climate crisis i'm not here to discuss the you know climate crisis and that on its own but it's you know people are being conditioned there is a paradigm out there there's dues and the job don't and there's the power of the state and again the media suring up the state and its agenda and its ideology as martin has already pointed out here. does that worry you you know if you know if it's so warm of social control because you know you know these people think they're doing the right thing i mean just like when george said you know we were going to get rid of your carbon footprint and then a good idea well i mean if you're a truck driver you're going to have to shoot them go ahead in

a sense what we've seen in the last 20 or 30 years is the emergence of a new cureton ism which has nothing to do with classic cortisone in terms of regulation people's morality or sexuality indeed it is. the opposite of that but almost all these other issues it is very strict and it's good fuel so if you were disciplined and you pay attention to the rules and any breach of the rules need to complete social ostracism. and so in that sense we see a kind of mid 16th century kill christmas because it's wicked stole the 80 not because you want help but because you want to stop the people enjoying it that kind of mentality that kind of cycle which has come back with a vengeance through these processes and there's enough problem calls by called it or there's another. possibility all environmental problems caused by changes in the climate to give to people who have without perhaps realizing it as you say deep cycle to motivation to control and discipline and even punishment and so on to say to make them feel that they are doing the right thing the anybody who opposes them

doesn't need to listen to and i think this is the group i'm coming to a point about the science science has advanced through the dissident galileo would never been allowed to be published in a money journal today because the ptolemaic consensus would have said but he's outside all consensus same with einstein so is fact it's always the old bulls lunatics who are the ones who make progress and then they become the orthodoxy all the artists come we'll talk c.m.l. quite often i write but at a certain point as we saw with newton's physics it turns out not to be adequate and einstein can replace it and einstein now is seen as a bit old hat too and this is i think the great danger of the people latching on to something that gives them a talisman it used to be a religious thing but now it's science science is the totem sonce has become the model to everything must be sacrificed by people who have a scientist idea actually what is science. made the big thing that's absolutely right marcus i mean it is this is one of the great tragedies of this year is age the science as people like to say has been politicized i mean you can if you can

you serve science in the service of your agenda i mean it i mean in so many different ways and this is this is this an illusion many people have is me where is the science where you still have your elite fighting on their private jets but i'm not supposed to drive my car from this hour at this hour i mean i mean it's so glaring for some people here and it does go back down to where they. this sense of social control that and they truly believe it's a positive impairment and i think that's i think that's what really scares me because these are like ideologically possessed people that really really think that they're really close to helping you but it doesn't change their lifestyles back to rich people in this world that got a far more richer during this crisis here is really one of the great oddities of this crisis as well go ahead maria arcus insets and i had a case needs about for the last 20 years and sorry british and parts easel the british establishment to be more accurate has been the shooter in

a hellish in fact he notes agenda and i would consent that's once in 20 has been cancelled for the british establishment and it's sheared off this heritage agenda and i believe that mainstream rejecting me you'd say has really that message very very clear to those of us in the u.k. who shrink person independent read and critically because what we have seen in britain's friends in transit is the media to not buy a platform to needs in x. it's in best beings who have a difference of opinion on what is known as quote benign seem to have a distance opinion on a lot downs on social distance in and where in the halls trace mosques now pates are weneth the major denier platforms who needs an expert it's a nasty words the a lot of bells go off in my head and it doesn't matter what the subject salary is

it could be russia it could be syria it could be north korea it could be iran it could be the british major wasted not a platform and indeed batesville a fight anyone who challenges the british official merits in on countries such as russia or iraq that should be most this currency in distances. for people who think independently and critically and that's what we've got seen in 2028 groups in concert and what it's not it's clear that night saying if you have a difference of opinion on the virus you have been demonized you have been signifies you are going to choose the being mentally it was your logs or endangered the lives of tens of millions of bricks and even people like hillary johnson professor newman sachs and broke the lock downs which states are often cold sport now is not is not a concern some people then i see. these people doing also you can have

a sink drain so between now you know george you and i you know we have talked about the passing of the great stephen cohen here and i think all of us would agree and most of our audience if not all of our audience. think i'm steven cohen is one of the great russian nests of our time but how much time did he get on the airwaves preciously little though you have other people that have no idea where russia is fighting off on and on on twitter all the time in georgia in one of the things because we're rapidly running on time here is that a lot of these elites they presume wars in the name of democracy here but where has been the democracy in all of these shutdowns and lock downs i mean you have to scare any of the executive and there's been a little bit of pushback on that and i'm. glad to see it but it's only happening after almost a year of this year but at the end of the day it's not what the people want it's what they are told and when george and i know the american experience of the best

mean you have these. governors that are essentially up functioning as dictators i mean an executive order can can't doesn't necessarily make it constitutional and this is something that's being challenge go ahead george. exactly and what we normally think of in the practice of democracies is negative ration elected representatives debate and pall mall but instead what we have in the united states or the united kingdom is the big government big that which from one day to the leg becomes more and the police. or with some brutality and protests are and ever in the glow of the one and with the goal posts of constantly being moved. exactly and that's what we've been talking about the strong i think well what is the science there is extensive a disagreement about coded as the weather really. hot the air is

there's a group of coronaviruses of the been around forever that the debate about them often about whether the mafia use or i'm one of the scientists say that camp would make this going like that people are suffering from all kinds of. psychological problems something to be increasing that's also a sign but with people it brian but i mean the scientists who then have you know all the sciences who are presenting a very different view that's that enables a conversion to take place and was going to be budgeted in the mainstream media now all of the social media was supposed to provide a little girl if it were for a vehicle was in the name of you know whatever is the reigning ideology well it's in preparing interesting gentlemen i hope you'll join me here on cross not exactly one year from now and we'll find out if what we've been talking about was

a bad year or just the beginning of a trend that none of us have any control over here i want to thank my guests in london up started in budapest know one thing our viewers are watching us here are d.c. an experiment remember. all right. larry it remains dead air there's gun murder now that we have to refer to the green arrow barrel. betteridge weapon of mass communication is spreading in developing an area and then doing that way to marry the day the president of m.t.v. is if there's any verbal devices ordered to a little bit earlier i'm going to i'm going to the country of you we don't need to

worry about that to your mother your mariane pearl against alternative vision sacrificed if you start to question all of america your way expel the air i fear that it can lead me to marry going to create a period immediately air and stay under cover and i'm going to say about a side or earlier you will get exposed on t.v. i can't wait for decontamination and i love to help your audience is as brave as everything to. track down. where airborne arrows you can defend yourself i enjoyed every one from the weapons of mass communications. thanks for the teen girls

give the enemy up things that are here air. americans love by i don't. this was a fundamental part of how our political leadership and our country at large understood the bargain you get a hoe and then you know rebel right as the things you don't revolt if you have a stake in the system. be really interesting to dial it back and think about the longer deeper history l.a. housings men in the united states not just that old question of the american dream but the bigger question of who the dream is and for.

the headlines all to see as intensive care units in california fell off during the pandemic clinics are forced to set up makeshift wards outside. tells us just how bad the situation has become we're stuck now we were running low on oxygen on supplies have patients in overflow overflow overflow areas. and in russia people over 60 receiving the sputnik we cope with the health ministry said it was safe to do so. books and actions are also rolled out across europe but people are still very much divided all the issues. and i think we did not have enough feedback on the specs and the momentum had.