unless say it would take almost 10 years to vaccinate enough americans to control the virus gives a whole new meaning to operation warp speed and the mess continues on a local level 2. is it just normal teething problems of one of the most ambitious vaccination campaigns in u.s. history or is it just incompetence at every level either way it looks like to cure all meant to bring ota is now only adding to the chaos let's take you to india where medical experts have raised concerns over what they say is the country's

rushed the solution to approve 2 krone virus vaccines on sunday india greenlit cobra shields a drug based on the astra zeneca vaccine and kovacs in a drug created by india's biotech company a senior health official said that both jobs are 110 percent safe they wouldn't have been approved if there were any safety concerns but not everyone so confident . based on the full dose regimen for both shots that got approved astra zeneca had shown 62 percent efficacy this is much lower than any other vaccine that has been approved in many countries the all india drug action network is shocked to learn of the c.c.s. recommendations of grants approval of bharat's biotechs kovacs in its appears that no efficacy data for the vaccine candidate was submitted from the phase 3 trials that's only going. and earlier we spoke to public health experts among the group who believes the indian government might have buck thing wrong in. the in the

fields of science and public health. astonished to see. if we just look from the the data which is available to us the astra zeneca vaccine we're looking at in africa see the 60 wasn't. don't be don't really have the and this is the efficacy of so i think from that particular perspective for a country with 1200000000 people who provide a rule for these 2 vaccines mean not be one of the most strategy and the best decision to be there are other vaccines in the water and the government should have considered others from in africa see the. more great programs get their start in moments here all are to stay close to find out what's showing reverie you are today by for naught.

hello and welcome to cross talk or all things are considered i'm peter lavelle what is the fate of the progressive movement can it continue to coexist with the mainstream establishment left is its current trajectory in electoral did m. and 10 progressive be part of a greater political realigning. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guests jamie right in los angeles she is the founder of the right ball firm and political and also in los angeles we have 3 around what is about she is an independent journalist and co-host of the congo couch and in new york we have john burnett he is co-chair of public affairs and

public policy for new york republican state committee right across up rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciate it may i was going to you know and an los angeles as a put the progressive on the panel here what is the state of the progressive movement now you did get the vote out for joe biden you did it at least rhetorically and publicly close ranks and as the presumptive president of the united states next will be inaugurated in january he's done everything his power to shown progressive so was it worth it why would they say that progressive it's extremely fractured as well that there are a lot of people on the left who feel that now that we're taken for granted and alosi as others our progress that a lot of people oppose all the progress that it has become. a rebranding a new wing of the democratic party one that isn't really challenging. the status

quo politicians even if you look at the squad they're not really challenging nancy pelosi when it comes to that is more stimulus package she just pushed out which basically cut the money and have from what was initially going to happen so there is a huge fracturing in the progressive movement it is a lot of people voted for joe biden thinking that they were making damage and in my personal opinion i don't see it was worth it i don't we are seeing joe biden fill his cabinet with people that are diametrically opposed to everything for growth of their sense of value whether that's medicare for all whether that is you know cutting the pentagon and cutting our military budget whether it's something as simple as getting a green you deal or any sort of cuts to the environment to the emissions and any sort of progress for the environment they're going to review i mean can i ask you know earth can i ask you personally do you have any buyer's remorse because i'm sorry and i'm very sympathetic conservative but i'm very sympathetic to

a lot of the rest of ideas here but i could've told you so and i don't say that but they're not any clique oh no you know i personally i personally did not vote for joe biden i went to her party so i am definitely i definitely did not go that route i mean i live in california as well i was definitely one of the people that had 0 problems telling people to vote their conscience and i die don't i agree with you 100 percent peter i told you so is right i mean we a lot of us were telling people this is exactly what's going to happen was a divided administration they're going to put in people that aren't going to respond to you because you already think you could pull a blue no matter who i hope as the 2022 comes up the strategy will be different ok because it has to be if you want to became remain relevant that's what i said in my introduction. jamie if i can go to you how in the world explain to me in simple words because i'm just a talk show host in a o c and joe biden be in the say are. very simple i mean i think it's it goes back

to the roots of progressivism which is always kind of been this hodgepodge of different ideologies and so we have to look at it from the perspective of progressive versus the reformists so there are some people who are progressive also call themselves reform so they're reimagining how these institutions that we have think phil and if we look at some of. president elect biden picks i want to take a little bit of heart because we have john kerry who is going to be focusing on the you know environment there will likely be some discussion around our foreign policy being centered on how do we engage in making sure that our citizens are definitely held accountable how do we engage in making sure that there is a quality so it's possible for the 2 to coexist and just have different ideologies of what it means to be progressive but i don't think there's one true way of how we identify well i mean president if you look at his pics i mean they've been this is

a corporate america's dream come true you know they they they they dress liberals up in this progressive rhetoric you know or i've lived matter but you know it may be that you know jeff bezos treats his workers deplorably ok but you see right slogans here i mean it it's quite in. there's a for me and there's a lot of dishonesty of about that ok because all this engine and i don't know what joe biden like to reform or just what is you know i think i'm right or not yeah i mean i think that's what he tells and i think that's a safer line to tow when you're center person like joe biden ok is it safe to be in the center here john you've been very patient with us here i mean you come in from the republican side here but i would i would argue. that the republican party suffers from many of the same things as the democratic party is that all parties are so hostage to their donor class ok because what we have much to the surprise

because of the polling is that i wouldn't call it a red wave but it was a certainly a strong red ripple that we saw and in this past election here and these were this these were i would say more of a populist and then they would be for a standard bearer and g.o.p. candidates which are about. i don't have to disrespectfully disagree if it was up to the dollars donald trump would have never been elected in 2016 this is more so the republicans more so a grass roots and that's actually blowing up and we've seen that in the in the down balloting in terms of how many seats and blue areas or purplish areas actually flipped to read at the same time where you know currently vice president biden is projected to be the winner and to be in order in the in january as you reported

if if the legal battles don't come to fruition so we really look at it there it's going back to your original question with respect to the divide on the left the thing is is absolutely buyer's remorse the thing is usually you wait for the package to be delivered when you order something instead of actually having buyer's remorse you know when the package is in route and what does that stem from the thing is i've heard progressive progress progressive there's a you know frona around right by definition but is taken on a different connotation right when you have centrist democrats carrying the label a warning that bran progressive it waters it down in its only exacerbates fuel. the feud ideological feud between. you know parties and different individuals on the left those are grassroots all the way up to those in

power so this is not going away you know if by and it actually takes the 0 is actually only going to end up by why you don't have to bring the republicans into this discussion point the differ when you talk about defund the police when you talk about you know are reducing america's energy and and it's when you talk about raising the individual tax rate it's a nearly 60 percent raise the corporate tax rate let's not forget the individuals that voted for obama twice in the midwest actually voted for trump so there is a faction even when you when you go outside of the beltway and really talk to people on the butt in the boss up at rest on the left they don't go for a lot of the progressive demands so there's going to be you didn't want it i have

to push back on there it depends on how you phrase it ok i mean when you say you know they are a single pair or it are socialized medicine it depends on how you pitch things and how people react to it it's it's very delicately way beyond the what hurts you just like the glaring on progressing on hang on it's very well documented that trump supporters would like much better healthcare to depends on how you describe it and i want to try one in 2016 despite the donors here let's go back to of in los angeles you know what you know we just heard from john you know you know packaging and ideas and blurring but bernie sanders is a real person ok and he had real ideas and he was very popular in the last 2 election cycles we can talk about. why he didn't come finish that go over the finish line but there is no doubt that he there is the he has a following or there is a following for many of his core ideas and that's not going to change. yeah i mean

it's absolutely not going to change i think we're missing the element of populism that's rising here both on the left and the right i mean if you look at a lot of the rightly populous some of them are in complete agreement with some of the progressive as when it counts to censorship when it comes to being anti-establishment when it comes to questioning the narrative so it's actually something really interesting that's happening because the populism means well that people i did over 60 percent of people actually want a better health care system they want everybody to have health health care it's just you're exactly right the way it is absolutely frayed doesn't help and it's a lot of the people who did vote for obama did go to donald trump because of the failure of the democratic party because what the democratic party fails to do is they embrace and centrism embracing centrism is what is kill that party because they don't fully go be high these populist ideas that somebody like sanders was

hers any and instead they half way put in putting their foot there and they have to take it out so that is exactly why the democratic party has failed to actually build a cohesive brand and also in by the same token the progressive movement has it in washington d.c. as an opposed nancy pelosi it hasn't opposed the old guard enough to actually or do something else i just don't get it i thinking about that because i'm very curious about that because with the exception of and in the minds of millions and millions of people the contested presidential election it was a it was a bad day for democrats on election day i mean it was it was a shellacking how do you account for that. oh you know i o's are. going to take a you know i really think we have to kind of think about the idea who really owns the idea progressivism i mean is it all the way left is it all the way right is it all is it the same here and there let's name figures is joe biden

a progressive is nancy pelosi a progressive judge schumer a pretty progressive i think in their mind they are i think i think i mean seriously not a little clear i know it's funny but i think that their mind they think that the ideas that they espouse because they are not republican and they're not to the right makes them progressive anything really not a party has been moving further and further to the right ever since bill clinton now can be a great read i agree i agree i totally agree and that's the actual reality but it's again it's about how it's conveyed and the talking points and the narrative in nancy pelosi is my she's from san francisco so she's the ultimate progressive disease stomach beings instead so what she believes look what i don't like you know graffiti ok that's right was it a serious right i'm more unpopular than donald trump right now exactly exactly but

it is easy listening to that which amy if i am peter if i could just interject you guys when we start at we have to go to a hard break and now to let er rip will continue our discussion and rest of his united states stay with our. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then. welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered on peter remind we're talking about the state of the progressive movement.

ok let's go back to john in new york and you were talking about words and what they mean and i think one thing we've already come through in this program here is that people like to appropriate it for their own purposes and for their own meaning if nancy pelosi can call himself a progressive i suppose i could call myself a south african ok or peruvian or filipino ok i mean it doesn't have any meaning ok exactly but you know i think is important and it's the question i posed earlier there are differences between people like joe biden and bernie sanders there that is irrefutable here ok and i have to say i'm disappointed that bernie didn't stand up stronger because like i i i really believe in the realignment i mean i think the the status quo is untenable it is not working for people and i'm really sick and tired of the donor class being served 1st ok because with this economic turndown

people are going to get so distant and disenchanted and i think that you know they're going to get a rude the day by thinking everything is going to go back to normal there's nothing normal right now and there's nothing normal to look forward to and i sorry to be you know so depressed here but i think that's. going to be a better demeanor it sounds like there is diversity in diversity right there is no one size fits all even jamie said before the break you know she even broke down. you know what it means to be a progressive by geography it seems that is though what the democrat elite are doing is self identifying as progressive. and we know that when you self identify you actually change completely change the definition if you can ingest it so that i can you must but then it's meaningless right at you know lou

but the thing is we get caught up in words and definitions and people start to really go i wave bulls and not by policy positions and so forth and that creates even warped discourse whatever republican i'm actually trying to give democrats some of these it would take it they issue is right and they spent so much time hating trump instead of really focusing on policies it positions probably because they knew that they were the day of reckoning with calm and that reckoning is going to be is going to take place whether they like it or not and it's not going to be pretty over the next several years here here we are we're doing this on zoom here so from what i can see here we have a progressive conservative me we have a democrat and we have a republican and i think we all could agree what we just heard from john just focusing on the orange man in the white house screwed everything up and i really

truly believe that ok isn't that an easy thing to do and i really would have liked a lot more policy because i think i think the policies were great. which one is he like. john which was different i think for black america i mean when you look at what the democrats haven't done well over decades this is the 1st president where we could actually point to specific empowerment possibly policies that actually broke down is to to tional strongholds and actually provided opportunities if it wasn't for the cold it impact all of america we would have that actually see even more compound and positive impact and that's the reason why why the boycott blacks and hispanics the vote of the vote turnout for trump actually was historical basis i think there are $960.00 i don't usually black ministers richard

me and you know but any claim to me everyone explained to me you know me in simple words because i'm just a talk show host then why was he called a racist for the last 4 years ok because it it's a daisy and yes it's easy to surround around a target as opposed to addressing the fractions and the policies it's sort of like one dog barking at loon and i'm being very simplistic here then 3 dots are bucket barking at the new domestically you have 4 dogs barking on her and if you know joe biden was voting at cars once and during one of his i know you're hurting it's sort of like would have been a give a good example and 7 you know tripping over the dogs barking that he didn't have an agenda we're going to do about it this is a hell these are going to you know they project the lazy was so strong yet that they vote it is george gascon right now george was the d.a. in san francisco and there was

a lot of issues surrounding his policies and how he ran the d.a.'s office but the hate for jackie lacey was so strong and so poignant and that was the focus it was the sex thing thing to do. kratz and donald trump he's a racist we hate him you know the talking points look at what he's doing now joe biden you know if you have black if you even black enough you know if you don't vote for me it's easier to focus on a target they do with a new line it's what they can do they understand of voters are actually not paying attention to the nuance nuance and they focus simply on i hate this person so i'm going to vote here is really that simple oh look aggressive actually progressive actually want action yet you know at the end if you look last also liver that's going to exacerbate i give it 24 months if even that good so i mean you know i get it i give it a lot of it is that in the calendar year of 2021 i did. it i think because i'm sorry i didn't the buyer's remorse is this i mean particularly if trump throws his

hat in on inauguration day oh not that. i want to stick with you because there's a lot of progressive ideas as a conservative in like i said i believe in the realignment here i mean what are you guys going to do next ok because you know in the democratic party and the republican party to a great degree because it might might might deal with the with the republican party is there just the libertarians have a chokehold and i really want to break that loose and let more populous into the party here but the democratic party is different because people like nancy pelosi hello c.n.n. and chuck schumer they have more venom for bernie sanders than they ever did for donald trump it's true yeah absolutely i mean i think that progressive like i said the progressive people are fractured or aggressive they're absolutely fractured so you're going to see some progressive as they are right now they're building to build a 3rd parties are building to built whether it's new for the people's party or whether

it's all the other 3rd party congress that's what they're trying to do they're no longer trusting in the democratic party you're still going to see some of that wing try to reform the party and rely on getting people like a o c n. omar and the squad but a lot of people are also down with the democratic party because they feel like bernie sanders was cheated flights they feel like obama and clinton still control the democratic party which they do and they see them as ingenuous not at all taking any actions to actually give any policies in the middle of the pandemic we're seeing 0 action to take care of people's health care i mean if that doesn't do it for progressives i don't know what will they honestly how it's got it's got over come the politics of letting democrats get away with everything because right now what it seems like for gresson is fold it and they give up all their power and absolutely nothing in return and it's not really long no longer going to fly considering our economic issues right now people are getting kicked out of their homes they're not paying rights small businesses are closing especially while

santal is the way gavin newsom is and will think as her a lot of small business owners who were not necessarily political and now all these people are getting political saying hey you're you're rude in my life you're taking everything i have all these issues are going to i can't has ideology i agree with you jane jamie the thing that happened to her this meeting of the with a painting of the cabinet here is that all here is about diversity what i guess not only speaking there's nothing wrong with that but just because if you have a a woman of color at the pentagon why should i cheer about that because i want to cut the defense budget i want us to stop in neighboring countries i want to end all these foreign wars i and i'm very angry with donald trump for not doing it showed he didn't show enough leadership or bill to do it ok these are popular issues here just because you. are a familiar face in a in a position here doesn't give me confidence in the policy and what we've been asking about here yeah but we're with but you know it the key word here is optics if i

like your optics we are visible people then i'm going to not pay attention to those facts of policy and i think that's what happens in a lot of these. pic's i found it very curious yesterday when i saw the health and human services. you know if the agent from california you know some of these things are going to breast soley on their lives we'd like how it looks now granted there are some people of color particularly on the economic team that are knockouts they're excellent in what they do so i don't want to deny them i think it's important to have diversity in terms of color you know. you know you know educational background i think those things are important particularly if they're competent and they can do the job all you've got there you said it companies like everything i think they're right but is ok right right competently being johnny if it was a cling on and he was good at economics what are they ok i don't care either to me

ok i want good policy for because you're international or a thinker no family that's what many people think is either i can't you know i can't believe this not to check my republican car here i agree with everyone. is that is. going on here well the realignment is happening on this and be we're here here's a situation here right just just so you know hearing what everyone is saying it seems as though you have the elite democrats that are only focusing on the marketing the label good point you know what the grassroots are going past the legal and looking at the ingredients. they're not liking the g.m.o. right not liking you know this type of blending of different. ideologies and actually watering down the progressive movement and what it stands

or even you know i'm shocked i looked at my social media and president obama actually said we actually do. ardea just serviced was slogans like these on the whole east and then almost the election after you last year and all the sudden the people that. started bashing him i thought never live to see you could. hold back the rocking of own. ideology i got really bad news for you really bad news we're going to hear from him for the next 30 years ok well ok he's in the white house. now i mean you're under 6 rules. and up right here on that and the other bus on a biography i mean he's going to use invested in this ok or maybe he'll end up running netflix which you know maybe donald trump would like to do that i mean he's

right in the life they're going to give each other all right 100 rapidly want out of time i'm very very used that such a diverse group of people with different opinions that have a very meaningful conversation and i mean that ok so i want to thank my guests in all my guests in los angeles and in new york i want to take our viewers for watching us here r.p.c. next time remember. the war in syria has lasted longer than world war 2. who has been suffering the most almost a decade long conflict regular syrian people. is one of them when you were going if you want this rain. i could see everything with my own ice here to stories of its residents one group in particular russian wives of syrian man. who were close to look up to his national just proceeds.

yes. a huge day for wiki leaks founder julian assange british court judge. extraditing him to the u.s. because of mental health concerns but the current editor in chief of wiki leaks points questions over press freedom. with when. he pushes. for journalists. the u.s. has already announced it will appeal the courts.