to parliament is traditionally a tough gig for minority parties even the format of the commons chamber is designed as if there were only 2 parties in mind that's over recent decades they've only been a handful of big operators in small parties 2 exceptions to this rule are alex's guest today 1st we speak to servants cable former leader of the liberal democrats and one of the few minority party and peace to make an impact a prime minister's questions and then to bat in with glee of canard and dafydd with glee as was former leader of the welsh nationalist country he was once described as the most people friendly welsh politician since lloyd george but 1st to vince cable alex asked him how he got started this in politics. spence cable if you're a liberal but you're the vesa today but that your foster electoral contests were for that labor party and then scotland. right to taking on the the redoubtable

tom galbraith and glasgow hill head way back in 1970 how did the young vince cable get on taking the legend of scottish tory politics but it was a slightly complicated journey after i'd lived the university i gonna live in east africa kenya for 2 years and got married there came back and settled to teach shouldn't they invest here. and gun involved in glasgow politics which is as you know rather a unique phenomenon. i decided tranter early going or getting involved in that in the local governments and going to the council but since i damns a living here had i competed for the candidacy it listen very unusual seats in the house and i'm there with 2 chary m.p.'s he was one and teddy taylor across in cash come out on the south side was the other and there was then a a strong tory tradition there and in the city. there was actually

a sequel to progressive which where had their kind of alternately a sectarian base and so that you know the property of the rights as it was was quite strong in gaza going out of that and courses gum. but it was you know quite a genteel campaign and i i did that quite well respectable 2nd. round i was sort of bloodied in their electoral politics but of course the experience as a council for man a hill in the chamber of summit after via a council familiar though very much of anything in the house of commons would fight you would that because what it was it was pretty rough it was you know university had lived. it spent rate. you know some very genuine problems and then you're in the right case but 3 years in that you know endless problems housing problems and

an extremity of that the you don't see any of the citizens now much improved and they organize ation of the props even though some foreign idealistic people but it was a it was also a bit of a man feel. and i got there were wrong and the one of 2 of. the characters that that night is that it was a very good political training. and i think we give some good things i mean i'm amazed these days about the inability say. i think you know nations that the difficulty of getting social housing built men and in my time in glasgow we were getting were trying to 1000 social housing only unit c.n.n. some of them were pretty terrible i mean i read rodin to be pulled down but we got to stop them and things went down. and you walk over to your south but you contested the nomination in their home stead in london the night is of the name of the marginal seat the house that it was then with a cent and ken livingstone who had political history a bit different if you had edged them out of the liberal nomination back then it

might have been i was the time i was a special adviser one of the 1st generation i were john smith that was a really great character and i fell and enormous admiration for and you know since i was politically engaged i decided to compete for parliamentary seat and i very nearly one sure i got they support of almost all the awards but can was really i'm so operating the party machine he had some big trade unions behind him and you know very much their kind of militant wing of the proxy which i definitely lost. out from not so. you know rather outclassed in that in that company that live apart they swung left a new song to the newly formed the social democratic party led by a roy jenkins looking back what you think the s d p's contribution to to british politics where what was the significant legacy of

that breakaway well it's into positive legacies that a lot of the people who were involved in their state based aid in politics and made a big contribution to that i hadn't realised the license around they cabinet table that i think 3 of my conservative colleagues were former members of the s.t.b. they kept quiet about it but it sort of gradually emerged and of course there was a whole swathe of talk people from the labor party leading shelley williams all right jenkins bill rodgers who are really actually people and help to build up the liberal democrats it didn't achieve its objectives we came. narraway close to breaking the mold in 1003. 100 live a challenge was mooted by the balkans war primarily and you know we almost night it didn't and the british 2 party system didn't matter and fs past the post voting

about the individuals who led today s.t.p. have separately made you know major contributions to political right surely and that they probably was one of the most outstanding individuals in british politics and he came in through that route. you're past the didn't go into parliament at that stage maybe you went on to a substantial business could be of the chief economist the royal dutch shell so when you did achieve the parliamentary seat in the 1907 was there your new melissa a big advantage coming with economics hethen but not really no i mean it became a home to me later on but getting into parliament as you know it said it's all about rush roots it's about door knocking it's about organizing seems of people sense a very different skill set. and i almost didn't make it actually i think as you're may know my wife was very seriously ill with cancer sorry i'm

a struct out that she encouraged me to keep going and i sort of mentioned it got over the line and you know i just said so you came in for a lot of a group of. liberal democrats which was the largest group for many years than the in the house of commons that would be unusual coming into a group with so many new colleagues. was that the experience that caused difficulty or whatever the just the lated that they were part of a large team there i think that was it was very high in iraq i mean it nesters next time when paddy ashdown was the leader of the even very good that many american to create a team spirit very disciplined it was actually a very disciplined party really are very few rebellions we have lots of local characters but we own knuckle down and we work together and. i think if there was a disappointment in that parliament i think we had hoped through teddy archons

relationship with tony blair that there would be more progress on you know the big political reforms we did get the evolution you know scotty hanumant and all that and we did get to you know limited move to the. david lucian even with the name then the way that. we got some proportional voting and they gave all dissemblers and insulted local government back about the cape changes we want to say which was an end to the fest past the post system across the u.k. from parliamentary elections we didn't get that and. and in essence our problems ever since that stem from. them in campbell was was was part of the you stepped in as they are acting leader of the team some notable success in parliamentary terms for questioning gordon brown a famous a question which still lead a lot primus this question many people are surprised that that states that you

didn't seek the party leadership while you're in 2 minds about it before you decided not to go for that well i'd get think about it but it just happened that they the 2 main contenders chris you know and nick clegg had already been well organized mostly by parliamentary colleagues are committed themselves one way or the other there was also a mood and in. the main camp it was great in many ways he was stereotyped as an older person people might seem very cruelly armed and wrongly. and i got some of that feedback as well because i'm sent generation that says so i decided there was no way i was going to break through at that point so i made the best of it. got heavily involved and they control this is around the banking crisis and i think that certainly you know when we cross swords in a in a good way or in a few few occasions too and so go forward to the coalition government in your back

then on the left of center politics how difficult was that for someone with that but the to go into a coalition with the conservative party a looking back was it worth the candle or was it something that was a never people in your opinion they just had to make the best of it it was a lottery or same was i thought it was inevitable i didn't think we have any choice i wasn't comfortable i didn't particularly like it part of the political logic pointed to it it was the numbers in the house of commons it was the only way you could form a stable government and give them what i think many of us thought were. position of economic crisis we weren't going to be forgiven if we had sabotaged the government and we are to go in and make the best of it might be for the personal comfort kind of euro but not schriefer to what gordon brown on the night i really like the guy despite you know your comment earlier about my quit and i'm now got to respect them

and look at the 70 of being more comfortable in that context than in politics you can't always do what's come to you now that you are political logic sense for most of those that don't remember as i recall you say the transformed himself from rambo to to mr bean what says one of the more memorable quips that prime minister's questions well it was stalin rather than rum but anyway it was a bit cruel that effective. that's politics i mean you fight that night lights of it out at night in the mini was it genuine principle politician and his are immense that i mean we look at what he's been doing in recent years and i thought he was retro and in come back saying they were great financial crash that we had was that was exemplary i mean i criticised the way the labor governments and the road of financial and housing bubble to build up but you know i think he emerged from that bill and he said with lots of credit. you

a casualty of the follow to the coalition in 2015 became storming back in twickenham in 2017 then became party leader some 10 years or so after you thought yourself too old to become party leader and enjoyed considerable length total success saw i get back to the sequester enough that very very few passed the little who started though after the t.v. a substantial result is not something you're going to ponder at all for a long time as i made your i mean it's very tempting to say in iraq at a stand down and i've been down there some 100 down there that i thought that any of it to the next generation was the right thing to do i don't. you know i would have been forgiven if i had been greedy and selfish and come back on my word so i said i was going to stand down in a orderly way and i did start. now prachi will recover from the last election you know the opportunities are there we have very good people so i mean i'm not going

to stick to the future and i'm not doing something else enjoying life outside parliament there is a life outside. and i'm making good use of that so that's cable for the leader of the liberal democrats demonstrating those life after politics thank you very much for joining us on the alex salmond phil thank you john after the break when i interview bob wigley of canards and 1st light of the house of commons azmi a dolphin wigley in fed but in 1974 joined us and. has changed american lives but pharmaceutical companies have a miraculous solution. based drugs the people who are chronic pain patients believe that their opioid prescription is working for them and the remedy be said to. price that they pay closer dependency and addiction to opiates to long term use that

really isn't scientifically just now study actually suggest that. the long term effects may not just be the absence of benefit but actually that they may be causing long term. welcome back alex's into being to westminster or times about the way things work and the shape of things to come that would likely lead quite comey to the then touching distance of the dominant labor party in welsh politics. so bob likely of cannot of the deaf and with glee as was and the comments how did you get into politics i did bite land in 1974 well i was in pole to fall and i had stood in 97 failed to get in i was elected on moves to drill county go to council in 172 the only by council at their label people all around me in the hearty seats it was an education there are those knocked into shape but i was ready for the 92nd before

and everything there threw at me so after being signed in by the bad sadie darius and therefore ted l. the house of commons wouldn't offer much feels for you but. i was 30 years old going into the house of commons and my colleague out of the list i was 27 and we were very young compared to that parliament there is like when you go to your new school your junior members and those in the 6th form look very big beasts indeed but there were big beasts there there were people of tremendous reputation and people look of caliber people like michael foot and you know powell and ian paisley and when you of course came into a 7 s.n.p. members a came into that election the biggest danger that we had was only being there for a few months because when a 2nd general election within that period it was elected in february and another election in october that was challenging and not parliament you came in the context

of all those riots of a welsh nationalism and scottish nationalism personified by the 11 s.n.p. m.p.'s that came in and told on your own success in wales but the context was of of britain how just having just enter of the european union and the confirmatory referendum of 1985 this is quite amazing you came in to westminster of politics. and that scenario and now there you are in the house the last bit of battling back over the last 2 fans well absolutely it's not an idea it was a very staunch pro european way back and before the 172. steps being taken by edward heath i was in a difficult position because when we had the referendum in 175 you've tried going to the position of not wanting to join the european union because wales didn't have a voice in its own right now then ok that that was

a fair enough technical point my belief was is much better for us to be in there working from inside europe and growing ourselves as a nation take a rightful place side by side with all the other little nations of europe in a new united front and that is something that has driven my politics all that try and i must say i breaks my heart when i think that we are leaving our continent no the continent has meant so much to wales in cultural terms in linguistic terms and economic and the period that we have had within the european union has been of tremendous benefit to wales in building up our economy and attracting overseas investment to wales the cells of the european market and now we stand to lose that people moving away i think is a retrograde step and i regret very much. so how is that going to play out and welsh politics i know one hand that dampen the prospects of ply coming in mosul looking for a much more powerful powerful mint and wales a because of

a lot of the unity and context or another hand people in wales are saying well you know if that's how villa get clicky by by westminster not paying attention to needs then perhaps we should be making our own way. very much so i mean there's been a tremendous sea change in welsh politics during the last 12 months we've seen support for independence in wales which hasn't ever historically been as high as it was instruction that is reached 34 percent in the opinion polls and that is staggering this new scene that we're in something that seconds assen wales considerably in terms of agriculture in terms of manufacturers and in terms of our quota of life and it's something that we're going to stand up and be counted on and that is what is firing the interest in independence now if we can't be part of the united europe within the structure united kingdom eventually as

a member state of europe in our own right then we have to fight to have our independence from westminster and that is the same for scotland and i suspect the people in northern ireland will be looking to a reunification referendum if all along with the republic because they too will be seeing the dangers of being dominated by a london which is only interested in itself. let me tell you back to the young firebrand wigley in the house of commons these days in the seventy's very close parliament of course parliament hanging by a knife edge i mean did you sort of rub shoulders with how to wilson and then later the gentile again and the court of the school somebody had to be in the commons and and the data varied opportunities for a young upstart m.p. to buttonhole the prime minister of the sailors and that the valleys need a buffer tension or whatever in wales needs are a lot of attention i think the item that got most attention was a fight to get compensation for

a quorum and suffering from you were going to use it and indeed are industry workers with such long diseases and the fact that we succeeded in delivering that in the last gasp of the $179.00 parliament was something that gave us credibility as a party but also brought benefits to hundreds of thousands of people not only in wales the united kingdom. and that was a period in what's called the winter than your native pastures politically with margaret thatcher totally dominant but then when she was a place by john meacham you had a 5 tecla advantage that she not because she was the prime minister's payer and the house of commons that that give you special access data quickly you were able to get a few favors of a tub and because that john major light upon you to not tough not to cancel it has vote well of course caring is daring and there were times when we didn't but for most of the 20 years we didn't and i got on very well with them and i'm still in

touch with them and i regard him as a very fine human being i disagree with much of his politics and he disagrees with mine but here and his wife and eleanor myself. keep in close contact now than at that time the fact that he was prime minister and was willing to give a year when s. he did give opportunity ringler to aunt hand and i think that the way in which he handled the northern ireland situation leading to tony blair then took it on and got the good friday agreement i think that his understanding of the dimension of ireland of scotland. probably benefited from the some of the chaps we had and i think that he had a much greater sympathy with our aspirations he said that he always wanted to be a united kingdom and he would never do anything that undermined the united kingdom

but he also in the same breath said ultimately it was for the scottish people or the irish people for the welsh people to turn in their own future and much as he would be sad if we were to leave the united kingdom he would respect that decision and i only wish we had a prime minister now that took the same attitude because clearly in scotland there is a pressure and in northern ireland there will be and in wales if things carry on. as they are and we too will be looking for our own place in the sun depending on our own efforts to build our own future and we certainly want the right to do. so you forward a bit of a say tony blair becomes prime minister on the label landslide of 1970 a national assembly arrives in wales elections in 1009 that's when glee leads spike timely and takes something of a fan of of questar of beating the labor party in wales to every time you reflect and say ah just a percentage to more than i could have been the fast fast minister of wales alex

let you just see fit some people in wales already know when i heard in my county on that friday morning that it looked as if we were sweeping the valleys and it looked at one point do we really going to take more than the 17 that we could be the largest party a shiver went up my spine because i knew we weren't ready for it and the result we got where we were the main opposition party a credible alternative government to do it giving us an opportunity to do our own homework to build ourselves up as a party and as a movement within wales ready to take on government the latest that was something. and then if it had come to us of course one would have to try to govern as best we could but there was another point as well it was important the labor party in wales had been badly split on evolution and people like neil kinnock would been leading the campaign against it was important that the labor party in wales saw itself in the seen by the people of wales as

a party that was committed to governing wales within the national assembly and therefore it was an entirely bad thing the labor party was forming their 1st government. that's the one final question i mean i've campaigned with you in and wales and indeed your campaign with me in scotland and i was always struck by the i me just say in the family oddity that people displayed to mob when when campaigning in fact it taught me a lesson or 2 about the techniques involved what advice would you give to the current crop of politicians to get that sort of empathy with the electorate which perhaps for much of politics that we all live in politics perhaps somewhat missing now. i mean it is so vitally important within your own constituency and you and i know about that because we have been the need to build up the linkages that you have the dealing with people not just on party political 'd matters and not just on the issues that concern them as individuals the government matters that are

important to the community but you're dealing with a community on all levels and that is what builds up your own credibility and that is that that exists within your own constituents it bias most of them something that is more generally accepted and that was helpful for me as undoubtedly was the us got a developed and in working with people in that way in building up the credibility in what you're saying in regards to a host of issues you're building up a credibility in what you're saying about independence discussion for wales and for a constitutional future and it's step by step that you claim claim ben nevis a crime snowden you take people with you step by step all the way the eventually you get to that summit. lastly in interview i described you as a firebrand on occasion and occasionally you had some run ins with the chair in the house of commons resulting in your expulsion from the the house for relatively

short periods of time but when you're sitting there on the red benches of a house a loss and you're looking at the speaker of the house a lot of them at the case only think yourself manifest and just missed a my arrival doubt the hosa laws as i used to rumble up the house of commons was no point in looking get to it the speaker of the house of lords and those to whose was the row the speaker there is totally different the set of house of lords is a so-called self-governing chamber and you don't raise points of order them and you discuss them amongst yourselves and to that extent this is a more egalitarian stretched strangely well the house of commons now than there are all sorts of weakness in the house of lords the fact that people on selected means that we don't have the credibility we don't have a trout and therefore even when you are fighting it and you're putting the arguments forward and you win the arguments you still don't have that leverage push

that through guess that was a commons i mean if we're going to have a bi cameral system going into the future and the sooner the house of lords changes to being elected senate the better the people needs to have the credibility that comes from the electoral process and incidentally while the united kingdom remains or possibly develops into a federal or content role a structure and try it to us getting our full independence and where scotland northern ireland then there needs to be in those circumstances there needs to be. a recognition that the upper chamber might speak have a roof it might have a role in giving a voice scotland wales and northern ireland of the sort that it doesn't always get within the structures of westminster. barnwood way of kmov them dotted with glee thank you so much for joining me on the all examine show. change days out westminster between them vince cable and trafford with glee boasts half

a century of parliamentary experience when lord wigley was elected to the commons the u.k. had just entered to that now and i said laura tis been a fierce opponent of bricks it has servants cable led the liberal democrats to revival in the european elections under a new leader they face new oblivion and the general election between them they have seen 9 prime ministers come and go they look back and see a deterioration in the standard of politics as well as the governance of the country however both do see better times ahead for their respective parties. that's nice for myself alex and all of this too it's good by stacy i mean hope to see you all again next.

2021 but i guess c.n.n. staying phenomenon in point 21 you know america has been exporting its inflation at china for 20 years and now china's caught up to america and now all that money of printing that's been going on for 2025 years is going to show up as real a place that. has changed many american lives but pharmaceutical companies have a miraculous solution. based drugs talk to people who are chronic pain patients and believe that they're ok prescription is working for them on the remedy be certain to do the price that they paid was the dependency and addiction to opiates is the long term use that really isn't scientifically justified and i'll study actually

suggested that the long term effects might not just be the absence of benefit but actually that they might be causing long term. that was what it was it was. 4 people have been killed in clashes that broke out when supporters stormed the capitol building in washington the president elect and the incumbent reacted to the violence though in very different ways. threatening the safety of the official protests insurrection.