but 1st to vince cable alex asked him how he got started in politics spence cable if you're a liberal that university but that your foster electoral contests were for the labor party and then scotland and the farm right to taking on the the redoubtable tom galbraith and glasgow hill head way back in 1970 how did the young vince cable get on taking the legend of scottish tory politics when it was a sadly complicated journey after i'd lived the university i gonna live in east africa and kenya 2 years. got married there came back and settled to teach ship they invest here. and got involved in glasgow politics which is as you know or rather a unique character phenomenon. i decided trend early going or getting involved in that in local governments and programs of the council but since our dams

a living here had i competed for the candidacy it listen very unusual seats in the house and i'm there with tutorial m.p.'s he was one and teddy taylor across in cash cow not on the south side was the other and there was then a a strong tory tradition there and in the city. there was actually a party called a progressive switch where i they're kind of alternately a sectarian base and so that you know the proxy of the rights as it was was quite strong i was going to have that and courses gone. but it was you know quite a genteel campaign and i i did did quite well give me a respectable 2nd. round i was sort of bloodied in their electoral politics but of course a good experience as a council for man a hill in the chamber of summit after via a council familiar though very much of anything in the house of commons would

frighten you with that because what it was it was pretty rough it was you know university of life. it spent it's uncanny you know some very genuine problems and then you're in the right case been 3 years and you know endless problems housing problems and an extremity that you don't see any of the senses is now much improved and they organize ation of the prostate and there's some fine idealistic people but it was a it was also a bit of a man. and i got there were wrong and one of 2 of. the characters that that night is it was a very good political training. and i think we did some good things i mean i'm amazed these days about the inability say. i think you know nations that the difficulty of getting social housing built men and in my time in glasgow we were getting were trying to 1000 social housing only unit c.n.n. some of them were pretty terrible i mean i read rodin to be pulled down but we got

stuck with them and things went down. and you walk over to your south but you contested the nomination in their home stead in london the night is of the name of the marginal seat the house that it was then with a set and ken livingstone who had political history a bit different if he had edged them out of the labor nomination back then it might have been i was at the time i was a special advisor one of the 1st generation that were johnson if that was really great character and i sell an enormous admiration for and you know since i was politically engaged i decided to compete for parliamentary seat and i very nearly one in there i got they support of almost all the awards that can was really him said operating the party machine and he had some big trade unions behind him and you know very much their kind of militant wing of the party which i definitely

wasn't. and from not so. you know rather outclassed in that in that company that live apart they swung left a new song to the newly formed the social democratic party led by a roy jenkins looking back the funny thing the s d p's contribution to tibet is politics where what's the significant legacy of that breakaway well it's in it to the positive legacies that a lot of the people who were involved in their state base stayed in politics and made a big contribution to that i hadn't realised the license around they cabinet table that i think 3 of my conservative colleagues were former members of the s.t.b. they kept quiet about it but it sort of regularly emerged and of course there was a whole swathe of talk people from the labor party leader shelley williams all right jenkins bill rodgers who are really actually people and helped to build up the liberal democrats it didn't achieve its objectives we came. marilee close

to breaking the mold in 83 but we were actually very the challenger was looted by the falcons war primarily. you know we all mislaid it but didn't and the british 2 party system didn't help from their 1st class the post boat back to the individuals who led to the s.t.p. have separately made you know major contributions to political rights surely kennedy probably was one of the most outstanding individuals in british politics and he came in through that route. you passed the didn't go into parliament that stage maybe went on to a substantial business committee of the chief economist the royal dutch shell so when you did achieve the a parliamentary seat in the 1907 was there your new melissa a big advantage coming with our economic heft and back then not really no i mean it

became a help to me later on but getting into parliament as you know it said it's all about rush routes it's about door knocking it's about organizing seems of people sense a very different skill set. and i almost didn't make it actually i think as you're may know my wife was very seriously ill with cancer i almost dropped out that she encouraged me to keep going and i sort of mentioned i got over the line and at united he said so you came in for a large group of of liberal democrats which was the largest group for many years than the in the house of commons that would be unusual coming into a group with so many new colleagues. was that the experience that caused difficulty or were they just the latest that they were part of a large team now i think there was no it was very high in iraq i mean it was expiring when paddy ashdown was the leader of the evil very good that many american

to create. a team spirit very disciplined there is that you very disciplined party really are very few rebellions we have lots of poker characters but we own knuckle down and we work together. i think if there was a disappointment in that parliament i think we had hoped for paddy ashdown this relationship with tony blair that there would be more progress on you know the big political reforms we did get the evolution you know that scotty ha moments and all that and we did get it you know limited move to the david lucian even with in england the way that. we got some proportional voting and they gave all descend lists and in scottish local government but the key changes that we wanted to say which was an end to the fast boss the post system across the u.k. for parliamentary elections we didn't get that and. and in essence our problems

ever since stem from. them in campbell was was was part of the you stepped in as they are acting leader of the team some notable success in parliamentary terms for questioning gordon brown a famous question what still lead a lot primus this question many people are surprised that that states that you didn't seek the party leadership were you in 2 minds about it before you decided not to go for that that well i did think about it but it just happened that they the 2 main contenders chris you know and nick clegg had already been well organized most of by parliamentary colleagues are committed themselves one way or the other it was also a mood and in. the main camp it was great in many ways he was stereotyped as an older person it will not seem very cruelly armand wrongly. and i got some of

that feedback as well because i'm the same generation that says so i decided there was no way i was going to break through at that point so i made the best of it. got heavily involved and they control this is around the banking crisis and i think that certainly you know when we cross swords in a in a good way or in a few few occasions too and so go forward to the coalition government in your back then on the left of center politics how difficult was that for someone with that but the to go into a coalition with the conservative party a looking back was it worth the candle or was it something that was a never people in your opinion they just had to make the best of it it was the latter years same was i taught it was inevitable i didn't agree having a choice i wasn't comfortable i didn't particularly like it part of the political logic pointed to it was the numbers in the house of commons it was the only way you could form a stable government and given what i think many of us thought were. position of

economic crisis we weren't going to be forgiven if we had some to charge the government and we are to go in and make the best of it i mean for the personal comfort kind of you i don't but not to work with gordon brown on the night i really like the guy despite you know your comment earlier about my quit and i never got to respect women but the 70 have been more comfortable in that context than in politics you can't always do what's come to you know that you are political logic sense for most of those that don't remember as i recall you say they've transformed himself from rambo to to mr bean which says one of the more memorable quips that prime minister's questions well it was stealin rather than rum though but anyway it was a bit cruel that effective. that's politics i mean you fight that night lights of it out at night in the mini was it genuine principle politician is are immense that i mean we look at what he's been doing in recent years and i thought he was retro

and in come back saying they were great financial crash that we had was that was exemplary i mean i criticised the way the labor governments have narrowed the financial and housing bubble to build up but you know i think he emerged from that bill and he said with lots of credit. you got a casualty of the follow to the coalition in 2015 that came storming back in twickenham in 2017 then became party leader some 10 years or so after you thought yourself too old to become party leader and enjoyed considerable length total success saw i get back to this question of the very very few party little who started though after the to having a substantial result is not something you're going to ponder at all for a long time as i made your i mean it's very tempting to say an actor to stand down and i've done this kind of down there that i thought that any of it to the next generation was the right thing to do i don't. you know i would have been forgiven

if i had been greedy and selfish and gone back on my word so i said i was going to stand down in a orderly way and i did start. now to talk she will recover from the last election you know the opportunities are there we have very good people so i'm i'm not going to stick to the future and i'm not doing something else enjoying life outside parliament there is a life outside. and i'm making good use of that so that's cable for the leader of the liberal democrats demonstrate he lives life after politics thank you very much for joining us on the alex amen field thank you john after the break when i interview bob wycliffe canards and 1st light at the house of commons azmi of dothan weekly and fed but in 1974 join us an. analysis so seems wrong but all wrong just don't call. me i'll

get to see how this day comes after. and in detroit because betrayal. when someone find themselves well supplied we choose to look for common ground. journey to pain has changed american lives but pharmaceutical companies have a miraculous solution. based drugs the people who are chronic pain patients to believe that their opioid prescription is working for them and the remedy be certain to know the price that they pay was their dependency an addiction to opiates a long term use that really isn't scientifically justified and i'll study actually suggested that the long term effects might not just be the absence of benefit but actually that they might be causing long term.

welcome back alex is into being to westminster or times about the way things work and the shape of things to come that wrigley lead pipe company to been touching distance of the dominant labor party in welsh politics. so bob likely of cannot of the deaf and with glee as was and the comments how did you get into politics how did bite lead in 1974 well i was in politics the fall and i had stood in 97 failed to get in i was elected on mercer to drill county go to council in 172 the only by council at their label people all around me in the hearty seats it was an education there are those knocked into shape though i was ready for it in 97 before and everything there threw at me so after being signed in by the the saturday rites and left a ted l.

the house of commons wouldn't offer much feels for you but what i was 30 years old going into the house of commons and my colleague over the list i was 27 and we were very young compared to that parliament there is like when you go to your new school your junior member and those in the 6th form look very big beasts indeed but there were big beasts there there were people of tremendous reputation and people caliber of people like michael foot and you know powell and ian paisley and when you of course came into a 7 s.n.p. members a came into that election the biggest danger that we had was only being there for a few months because when a 2nd general election within that period elected in february and another election in october that was challenging and not parliament you came in the context of all those rise of of welsh nationalism and scottish nationalism personified by the 11

s.n.p. m.p.'s that came in and told on your own success in wales but the context was of of britain how just having just entered the european union and the confirmatory referendum of 1985 this is quite amazing you came in to westminster of politics. in that scenario and now there you are in the house the last bit of battling back over the last 2 fans well absolutely it's not an idea it was a very staunch pro european way back and before the 172. steps being taken by edward heath i was in a difficult position because when we had the referendum in 175 you've tried going to the position of not wanting to join the european union because wales didn't have a voice in its own right now then ok that that was a fair enough technical point my belief was is much better for us to be in there working from inside europe and growing ourselves as a nation take

a rightful place side by side with all the other little nations of europe in a new united front and that is something that has driven my politics all that try and i must say i breaks my heart when i think that we are leaving our continent no the continent has meant so much to wales in cultural terms in linguistic terms and economic and the period that we have had within the european union has been of tremendous benefit to wales in building up our economy in attracting overseas investment to wales the cells of the european market and now we stand to lose that people moving away i think is a retrograde step and i regret very much. so how is that going to play out and welsh politics are a no one hand that dampen the prospects of plague tumbly and those who are looking for a much more powerful pov a mint and wales a because of the lack of the unity and context or another hand people in wales are saying well you know the facts have

a villa created by by westminster not paying attention to needs that perhaps we should be making our own way. very much so i mean there's been a tremendous sea change in welsh politics during the last 12 months we've seen support for independence in wales which hasn't ever historically been as high as it was instruction that is reached 34 percent in the opinion polls and that is staggering this new scene that we're in something that seconds assen wales considerably in terms of agriculture in terms of manufacturers and in terms of our quota of life and it's something that we're going to stand up and be counted on and that is what is firing the interest in independence now if we can't be ought to be united europe within the structure united kingdom eventually as a member state of europe in our own right then we have to fight to have our independence from westminster and that is the same for scotland and i suspect the

people in northern ireland we're looking to a reunification referendum before long we're with the republic because they need to be seeing the dangers of being dominated by a london which is only interested in itself. let me tell you back to the young firebrand wigley in the house of commons if he stays in the seventy's very close parliament of course parliament hanging by a knife edge i mean that is sort of rub shoulders with heart of wilson and then later gentile again and the court of the school somebody had to be in the commons and and the data varied opportunities for a young upstart m.p. to buttonhole the prime minister than say listen that the valley's need a buffer tension or whatever in wales needs are a lot of attention i think the item that got most attention was a fight to get compensation for a quorum and suffering from you were going to use it and indeed are industry workers with such long diseases and the fact that we succeeded in delivering that

in the last gasp of the $179.00 parliament was something that gave us credibility as a proxy but also brought benefits to hundreds of thousands of people not only in wales the united kingdom. and that was a period in what's called the winter than your native pastures politically with margaret thatcher totally dominant but then when she was a place by john meacham you had to protect one advantage that you not because she was the prime minister's payer and the house the thomas did that give you special access data quickly you were able to get a few favors of a tub and because that's john major light upon you to not have not to cancel his vote well of course caring is daring and there were times when we didn't but for most of the 20 years we didn't and i got on very well with them and i'm still in touch with them and i regard him as a very fine human being i disagree with much of his politics and he disagrees with

mine here and his wife and eleanor myself. keep in close contact now than at that time the fact that he was prime minister and was willing to give a year when s. he did give oxygen ring with aunt hand and i think that the way in which he handled the northern ireland situation leading to tony blair then took it on and got the good friday agreement i think that his understanding of the dimension of ireland of scotland. probably benefited from the some of the chaps we had and i think that he had a much greater sympathy with our aspirations he said that he always wanted to be a united kingdom and he would never do anything that undermined the united kingdom but he also in the same breath said ultimately it was for the scottish people or the irish people for the welsh people to turn in their own future and much as he

would be sad if we were to leave the united kingdom he would respect that decision and i only wish we had a prime minister now that took the same attitude because clearly in scotland there is a pressure and in northern ireland there will be and in wales if things carry on as they are and we too will be looking for our own place in the sun depending on our own efforts to build our own future and we certainly want the right to do. so you forward a bit of a c tony blair becomes prime minister no labeling landslide of 1970 a national assembly arrives in wales elections in 1009 that's when glee leads spike timely and takes them to a fan of of questar of beating the labor party in wales to every time you reflect and say ah just a percentage to more than i could have been the fast fast minister of wales alex let you just see fit some people in wales already know when i heard in my count on that friday morning that it looks as if we were sweeping the valleys and it looked

at one point they were really going to take more than the 17 that we could be the largest party a shiver went up my spine because i knew we weren't ready for it and the result we got where we were the main opposition party a credible alternative government to do it giving us an opportunity to do our own homework to build ourselves as a as a movement within wales ready to take on government a later stage that was something. else and if it had come to us of course one would have tried to govern as best we could but there was another point as well that was important the labor party in wales had been badly split on evolution and people like neil kinnock would been leading the campaign against it was important that the labor party in wales saw itself in the seen by the people of wales as a party that was committed to governing wales within the national assembly and therefore it wasn't entirely bad saying the labor party was forming that 1st

government. duff and one final question i mean i've campaigned with you in and wales and indeed your campaign with me in scotland and i was always struck by the me just say in the family oddity that people displayed to margie when when campaigning and fight you taught me a lesson or 2 about the techniques involved what advice would you give to the current crop of politicians to get that sort of empathy with the electorate perhaps for much of politics potentially on line politics perhaps somewhat missing now. i mean this is so vitally important within your own constituency and you and i know about that because we have been there needs to build up the linkages that you have to deal with people not just on party political matters and not just on the issues that concern them as individuals but on matters that are important to a community that you're dealing with a community on all levels and that is what builds up your own credibility and that

is that that exists within your own constituents it bias most of them something that is more generally accepted and that was helpful for me i was undoubtedly was the us got a developed and in that working with people in that way in building up the credibility in what you're saying in regards to a host of issues you're building up a credibility in what you're saying about independence discussion for wales and for a constitutional future and it's step by step that you claim claim ben nevis a crime snowden you take people with you step by step all the way live ensure the you get to that summit. lastly in interview i described you as a firebrand on occasion and occasionally you had some run ins with the chair in the house of commons resulting in your expulsion from the the house relatively short periods of time but when you're sitting there on the red benches of a house a lot and you're looking at the speaker of the house a lot that's the case really thank yourself manifest and just to see the best time

i hold up the house the laws as i used to rumble up the house of commons where there's no point in looking at tours the speaker of the house of lords in those 2 years the row the speaker there is totally different the house of lords is a so-called self-governing chamber and you don't raise points of order you discuss them amongst yourselves and to that extent this is a more egalitarian structure strangely the house of commons now then there are all sorts of weaknesses house of lords the fact that people aren't elected means that we don't have the credibility we don't have a clout and therefore even when you are fighting and you're putting the arguments forward and you win the arguments you still don't have that leverage push that through against as a commons i mean if we're going to have a bi cameral system going into the future and the sooner the house of lords changes to being elected senate the better the people there needs to have the credibility

that comes from the electoral process and incidentally while the united kingdom remains or possibly develops into a federal or content role a structure prior to getting our full independence in wales scotland northern ireland then there needs to be in those circumstances there needs to be. a recognition that the upper chamber might be have a role it might have a role in giving a voice scotland wales and northern ireland of the sort that it doesn't always get within the structures of westminster bomb with way of can often doesn't regulate thank you so much for joining me now examine show thank you alex. change days out westminster between them vince cable and aphid wigley boasts half a century of parliamentary experience when lord wigley was elected to the commons the u.k. had just entered today. and i said lawrence has been

a fierce opponent of bricks it should so vince cable led the liberal democrats to revival in the european elections under a new leader they face near oblivion and the general election between them they have seen 9 prime ministers come and go they look back and see a deterioration in the standard of politics as well as the governance of the country however both do see better times ahead for their respective parties but for now as for myself alex in all of this too it's good bye stacey i hope to see you all again next ok thanks so. much i need. it thank you.

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staying phenomenon and point 21 you know america has been exporting its inflation and china for 20 years and now china's caught up to america and now all that money that's been going on for 2025 years is going to show up. real inflation. ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah . ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah. ah ah ah well people were killed in clashes that broke out when from supporters still in the capitol in washington however the president and his successor joe biden reacted very different playing to the violence. threatening the safety of duly elected officials to stop the protests from pitch.