i decided trend really going or getting involved in the in the local governments and going to the council but since i dems a living hell had i competed for the candidates say it listen very unusual seats in the house. they went to tory m.p.'s he was one and teddy taylor across in cash cow not on the south side was the other and that was then a strong tory tradition then and in the city. there was actually a particle the progressive side which had their kind of ultimately a sectarian base and so that you know the proxy of the rights as it was was quite strong in gaza go back to that and courses gum. but it was you know quite a genteel campaign and i i did that quite well respectable 2nd and i was sort of bloodied and electoral politics but of course that i had experience as a kind of self a man a hill in the chamber of some have half the via

a council from a hill a very much of anything in the house of commons would fight and you would that because that is what it was it was pretty rough it was you know university of life it spent 3. you know some very genuine problems and then you're in the right case but 3 years in you know endless problems housing problems and an extremity of that you don't see any of the citizens now much improved and they organize a sheen of the property even to some foreign idealistic people but it was a it was also a bit of a man. and i got there were wrong and one of 2 of. the characters that that night is it was a very good political training. and i think we did some good things i mean i'm amazed these days about the inability. i think you know nations that the difficulty of getting social housing built men and in my time in glasgow we were getting were

trying to 1000 social housing only unit c m and some of them were pretty terrible i mean i read road to be pulled down but we got stuck with them and things went down . and you walk over to your south but you contested the nomination in their home stead in london the lateness of the name of the marginal seat of hamstead as it was then with a set and ken livingstone who had political history a bit different if he had edged them out of the labor nomination back then it might have been i was at the time i was a special advisor one of the 1st generation that were john smith that was a really great character and i fell and enormous admiration for and you know since i was politically engaged i decided to compete for a parliamentary seat i very nearly one in there i got they support of almost all the awards but can was really i'm sure operating the party machine he had some big trade unions behind him and you know very much their kind of militant wing of

the proxy which i definitely lost. out from not so. you know rather outclassed in that in that company that live apart they swung left a new song to the newly formed the social democratic party led by a right jenkins looking back 20 thing the s d p's contribution to tibet his politics where what was the significant legacy of that breakaway well it's in and took a positive legacies that a lot of the people who were involved in their state based aid in politics and made a big contribution to that i hadn't realised the license around they cabinet table that i think 3 of my conservative colleagues were former members of the s.t.b. they kept quiet about it but it sort of a regular reemerged and of course there was a whole swathe of talk people from the labor party leader shelley williams all

right jenkins bill roggio really actually people and help to build up the liberal democrats it didn't achieve its objectives we came. narraway close to breaking the mold in 1003. 173 that challenge was mooted by the falklands war primarily and you know we almost night it didn't and the british 2 party system didn't matter and fs past the post voting about the individuals who led today s.t.p. have separately made you know major contributions to political right surely and that they probably was one of the most outstanding individuals in british politics and he came in through that route. you're past the didn't go into parliament that stage maybe went on to a substantial business could be of the chief economist the royal dutch shell so when you did achieve the parliamentary seat in the 1907 was there your new

melissa a big advantage coming with economics hethen but not really no i mean it became a lecture on that but getting into parliament as you know it said it's all about rush routes it's about door knocking it's about organizing seems of people sense a very different skill set. and i almost didn't make it actually i think as you're may know my wife was very seriously ill with cancer sorry i'm a struct out that she encouraged me to keep going and i sort of mentioned it got over the line and you know i just said so you came in for a large group of. liberal democrats which was the largest group for many years than the in the house of commons that would be unusual coming into a group with so many new colleagues. was that the experience that caused difficulty or were they just the latest that they were part of a large team now i think that was so it was very high in iraq i mean it just

nesters next time when paddy ashdown was the leader of the evil very good many very good to create a team spirit very disciplined it was actually a very disciplined power to read our very few rebellions we had lots of local characters but we own natural down and we work together. i think if there was a disappointment in that parliament i think we had hoped through probably archons relationship with tony blair that there would be more progress on you know the big political reforms we did get the evolution you know scotty hanumant and all that and we did get it you know limited move to the. david lucian even leaving than the way that. we got some proportional voting and they gave all descend lists and instructed local government back about the cape changes we want to say which was an end to the fest past the post system across the u.k.

for parliamentary elections we didn't get that and. and in essence our problems ever since stem from. them in campbell was was was part of the you stepped in as they are acting leader of the team some notable success in parliamentary terms for questioning gordon brown a famous question which still lead a lot primus this question many people are surprised that that states that you didn't seek the party leadership were you in 2 minds about it before you decided not to go for that well i'd get figure i did but it just happened that they the 2 main contenders chris you know and nick clegg had already been well organized listed by parliamentary colleagues are committed themselves one way or the other it was also a mood and in well the main camp it was great in many ways he was stereotyped as an older person it will not seem very cruelly armond wrongly. and i got some of

that feedback as well because i'm the same generation that says so i decided there was no way i was going to break through at that point so i made the best of it. got heavily involved and they control this is around the banking crisis and i think that certainly you know when we cross swords in a in a good way or in a few few occasions too and so go forward to the coalition government in your back then on the left of center politics how difficult was that for someone with that but the to go into a coalition with the conservative party a looking back was it worth the candle or was it something that was a never to bill in your opinion they just had to make the best of it it was the lottery or same was i thought it was inevitable i didn't agree having a choice i wasn't comfortable i didn't particularly like it part of the political logic pointed to it was the numbers in the house of commons it was the only way you

could form a stable government and given what i think many of us thought were. position of economic crisis we weren't going to be forgiven if we had sabotaged the government and we are to go in and make the best of it i mean for the personal comfort kind of euro but not to work with gordon brown on the night i really like the guy despite you know your comment earlier about my quit and i've got to respect them and look at the 70 have been more comfortable in that context but in politics you can't always do what's come to you now that you are political logic sense for most of those who don't remember as i recall you say the transformed himself from rambo to to mr bean what says one of the more memorable quips that prime minister's questions well it was stalin rather than rum though but anyway it was a bit cruel that effective. that's politics i mean you fight that night lights of

it out at night in a mini was it genuine principle politician is are immense that i mean when you look at what he's been doing in recent years and i thought he was retro and in come back saying they were great financial crash that we had was that was exemplary i mean i criticised the way the labor governments and the road of financial and housing bubble to build up but you know i think a inmates from that will be settled with lots of credit. you've got a casualty of the follow to the coalition in 2015 that came storming back in twickenham in 2017 then became party leader some 10 years or so after you thought yourself too old to become party leader and enjoyed considerable length little success saw i get back to this question of the very very few past the little who started after the t.v. a substantial result is that not something you're going to ponder at all for a long time as i'm a viewer i mean it's very tempting to say an actor to stand down there and i've

done this he wanted down there and i thought that ending of it to the next generation was the right thing to do i don't. you know i would have been forgiven if i had been greedy and selfish and gone back on my word said i said i was going to stand down in a orderly way and i did stand. now i think the property will recover from the last election you know the opportunities are there we have very good people so i'm an optimistic for the future and i'm not doing something else and enjoying life outside parliament there is a life outside. and i'm making good use of that so that's cable former leader of the liberal democrats demonstrate his life off the politics thank you very much for joining us on the alex aman phil thank you. join me after the break when i interview bob wycliffe canards light at the house of commons azmi a dolphin wigley and fed but in 1974 join the same.

man as that approached the usual. but if you don't australian version they go to the people. who are. used to them jump to the nearest union. to go to college to introduce the change. in systems but it seems to me. you need to go to church with this new look at a lot of things oh well that i don't you know pretty chilled or if they're moving at you want to be on your boat it will show you so much to be able to process on the postal order over out of this too free with don't be fooled the coke with full attention you. point a few that beautiful and hear them. we're going. to put so that the new word in the. qur'an dish to their hair for.

gas to jenny hutt that's just. b.s. that when you know any more than we do at the locus of us we're going to see it in your will i just stuck i don't know to just what does lead the speech into your pride you will know when you are going in the usual ways.

the war in syria has lasted longer than world war 2. has been suffering the most in this almost undoubtedly long conflict regular syrian people. need is more than when you might. i could see everything with my own eyes and hear the stories of its residents one group in particular russian wives of syrian man. they will look to us to come look up to its allies national just like it's. welcome back alex is interviewing to ask this to all times about the way things work and the shape of things to come that would regulate by comics with a touching distance of the dominant labor party in welsh politics. so bob likely of

cannot of been deafened likely as was and the comments how did you get into politics how did bite land in 1974 well i was in politics the fall and i had stood in $97.00 failed to get in i was elected on mercy to drill county go to council in $172.00 the only white council in their labor people all around me in the boat the seats it was an education there are those knocked into shape though i was ready for the 92nd before and everything there threw at me so after being signed by the the i had saturday rights and therefore ted l. the house of commons wouldn't offer much feels for you but what i was 30 years old going into the house of commons and my colleague over the list i was 27 and we were very young compared to that parliament there is like when you go to your new school your junior member and those in the 6th form look very big beasts indeed but there

were big beasts there were people of tremendous reputation and people caliber of people like michael foot and you know powell and ian paisley and when you of course came into a 7 s.n.p. members a came into that election the biggest danger that we had was only being there for a few months because in a 2nd general election within that period elected in february and another election in october that was challenging and not parliament you came in the context of all those riots of a welsh nationalism and scottish nationalism personified by the 11 s and pm piece that came in and told it on your own success in wales but the context was of of britain i just having just entered the european union and the confirmatory referendum of 1985 this is quite amazing you came in to westminster of politics. and that scenario and now there you are in the house the last been battling back

over the last 2 feet well absolutely it's now than it was a very staunch pro european way back and before the 97 to 2. steps being taken by edward heath i was in a difficult position because when we had the referendum in 97 you might go into the position of not wanting to join the european union because wales didn't have a voice in its own right now than ok that that was a fair enough technical point my belief was is much better for us to be in there working from inside europe and growing ourselves as a nation bigger rights were placed side by side with all the other little nations of europe in a new united front and that is something that has driven my politics all that trite and i must say i breaks my heart when i think that we are leaving our continent no the continent has meant so much to wales in culture terms in linguistic terms in economics and the period that we've had within the european union has been of

tremendous benefit to wales in building a power economy in attracting overseas investment to wales the cells of the european market and now we stand to lose that people moving away i think is a retrograde step and i regret it very much so how's that going to play out and welsh politics are no $100.00 that dampen the prospects of ply comely and those who are looking for a much more powerful pov a mint and wales a because of the lack of the unity and context on another hand people in wales are saying well you know the facts have a bit of a cliche by by us but it's the not paying attention to needs that perhaps we should be making our own way. very much so i mean there's been a tremendous sea change in welsh politics during the last 12 months we've seen support for independence in wales which hasn't ever historically been as high as it were. instruction that has reached 34 percent in the opinion polls and that is

staggering this new scene that we're in something the seconds a scene wales considerable in terms of agriculture in terms of manufactures and in terms of our quota of life and it's something that we're going to stand up and be counted on and that is what is firing the interest in independence now if we can't be part of the united europe within the structure united kingdom eventually as a member state of europe in our own right then we have to fight to have our independence from westminster and that is the same for scotland and i suspect the people in northern ireland we're looking to a reunification referendum before long we're with the republic because they too are seeing the dangers of being dominated by a london which is only interested in itself let me tell you back to the young firebrand what glenn and the house of commons if he stays in there and the seventy's very close parliament of course parliament hanging by

a knife edge i mean that is sort of rub shoulders with the heart of wilson and then later gentile again and the court of the school somebody had to be in the commons and and the data via the opportunities for a young upstart m.p. to buttonhole the prime minister of a sale isn't that the valley's need about attention or whatever and wales beats are a lot of attention i think the item that got most attention was a fight to get compensation for late quarrymen suffering from pneumonia which is and indeed are industry workers with such long diseases and the fact that we succeeded in delivering that in the last gasp of the $179.00 parliament was something that gave us a credibility as a proxy but also brought benefits to hundreds of thousands of people not only in wales the united kingdom. and that was a period in let's call the winter the new native pastures politically with margaret

thatcher totally dominant but then when she was a place by john major you had a 5 tecla advantage that you not because she was the prime minister's payer and the house the thomas did that give you special access data quickly you were able to get a few favors of retirement because that john major lived upon you not tough not to cancel his vote. tearing his pairing and there were times when we didn't but for most of the 20 years we didn't and i got on very well with him and i'm still in touch with him and i regard him as a very fine human being i disagree with much of his politics and he disagrees with mine but here and his wife and eleanor myself. keep in close contact now than at that time the fact that he was prime minister and was willing to give a year when s. he did give opportunity ring with who i want. and i think that the way in which he handled the northern ireland situation leading to tony blair then took it on and

got the good friday agreement i think that his understanding of the dimension of ireland of scotland. probably benefited from the some of the chaps we had and i think that he had a much greater sympathy with our aspirations he said that he always wanted to be a united kingdom and he would never do anything that undermined the united kingdom but he also in the same breath said ultimately it was for the scottish people or the irish people for the welsh people to turn in their own future and much as he would be sad if we were to leave the united kingdom he would respect that decision and i only wish we had a prime minister now that took the same attitude it was clearly in scotland there is a pressure and in northern ireland there will be and in wales if things carry on as they are and we too will be looking for our own place in the sun depending on our own efforts to build our own future and we certainly want the right to do. so you

forward a bit of a c tony blair becomes prime minister no labeling landslide of 1970 a national assembly arrives in wales elections in 1009 that's when glee leads spiked suddenly and takes them to a fan of of questar of beating the labor party in wales to every time you reflect and say ah just a percentage too more than i could have been the fast fast minister of wales. let you just see fit some people in wales already know when i heard in my county on that friday morning that it looked as if we were sweeping the valleys and it looked at one point they were really going to take more than the 17 that we could be the largest party a shiver went up my spine because i knew we weren't ready for it and the result we got where we were the main opposition party a credible alternative government to do it giving us an opportunity to do our own homework to build ourselves as a party and as

a movement within wales ready to take on government the latest that was something. and then if it had come to us of course one would have to try to govern as best we could but there was another point as well it was important the labor party in wales had been badly split on evolution and people like neil kinnock would been leading the campaign against it was important that the labor party in wales saw itself in the seen by the people of wales as a party that was committed to governing wales within the national assembly and therefore it wasn't an entirely bad thing the labor party was forming that 1st government. one final question i mean i've campaigned with you in and wales and indeed your campaign with me in scotland and i was i was struck by the me just say in the family oddities that people displayed to mob when when campaigning in fact you taught me a lesson or 2 about the techniques involved what advice would you give to the

current crop of politicians to get that sort of empathy with the electorate which perhaps for much of politics the tightly on line politics perhaps somewhat missing now. i mean this is so vitally important within your own constituency and you and i know about that because we have been there needs to build up the linkages that you have to deal with people not just on party political matters and not just on the issues that concern them as individuals but on matters that are important to a community that you're dealing with a community on all levels and that is what builds up your own credibility and that is that that exists within your own constituents it bias most of them something that is more generally accepted and that was helpful for me i was undoubtedly was the us consulate and in that working with people in that way in building a credibility in what you're saying in regards to a host of issues you're building up a credibility in what you're saying about independence discussion for wales and for

a constitutional future and it's step by step that you claim claim ben nevis or climb snow you take people with you step by step all the way the eventually you get to that summit. lastly in interview i described you as a firebrand on occasion and occasionally you had some run ins with the chair in the house of commons resulting in your expulsion from the the house for a lot of a short periods of time but when you're sitting there on the red benches of a house a lot and you're looking at the speaker of the house the last case really thank yourself manifest and just see the best time i hold up the house a lot of us as i used to rumble up the house of commons where there's no point in looking at 2 of the speaker of the house of lords in those 2 because the row the speaker there is totally different the house of lords is a so-called self-governing chamber and you don't raise points of order you discuss

them amongst yourselves and to that extent it is a more egalitarian structure strangely the house of commons now then there are all sorts of weaknesses house of lords the fact that people aren't elected means that we don't have the credibility we don't have the clout and therefore even when you are fighting and you're putting the arguments forward and you win the arguments you still don't have that leverage push that through against i was a commons i mean if we're going to have a bi cameral system going into the future and the sooner the house of lords changes to being elected senate the better the people there needs to have the credibility that comes from the electoral process and incidentally while the united kingdom remains or possibly develops into a federal or content role a structure prior to getting a full independence in wales scotland northern ireland then there needs to be in those circumstances there needs to be. a recognition that the upper chamber might

be have a role it might have a role in giving a voice scotland wales and northern ireland of the sort that it doesn't always get within the structures of westminster. bohm what we have come out of a dotted way thank you so much for joining me on the all examine show. let's change gears out westminster between them vince cable and acid with glee boasts half a century of parliamentary experience when lord wigley was elected to the commons the u.k. had just entered here that night and i said laura to spin a fierce opponent of bricks at huge service cable led the liberal democrats to revival in the european elections under a new leader they face near oblivion and the general election between them they have seen 9 prime ministers come and go they look back and see a deterioration in the standard of politics as well as the governance of the country however both do see better times ahead for their respective parties but for

now for myself alex in all of this too it's good bye stacey i hope to see you all again next ok thank you. thank. you thanks . for my guide to financial survival this is. a device used by professional scallywags to earn money. that's right. to the.

global economy you need to protect yourself and get in for. 4 people. in washington d.c. with reaction. from the president. threatening the safety of. kids

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