the work to see which of the weekend i mean in real life or not.

hello and welcome the ground stop where all things are considered i'm peter labelle a lot of questions what does it mean to be a conservative today is donald trump a conservative and did he change what it means to be a conservative what about the issue of clowns and finally what does it take for conservatives to win. these issues and more i'm joined by my guest and a caucus in greenville she is a newsmax insider as well as contributor to the washington examiner and in toronto we have arthur who wrote he is editor at large and being libertarian dot com all

right crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in in time you want and i always appreciate it ok let's go ahead and greenville in my introduction to ask the question what does it mean to be a conservative today in your mind what does it mean to be a conservative and let's keep in mind the tron presidency and the recent general election go ahead well in my mind it means to be conservative what has always meant is that we are working to conserve the classical liberal values our country was founded upon but i think there's a role fracture with an conservatism these days i think trump has increased that fracture i think it was a system before he actually came into office but it has become deeper and more visible and i think that there are a lot of conservatives who want to move that movement into the action that he was mostly focusing on which has a lot more nationalism involved and isn't always as attached to our classical liberal values as i would like to see the movement attached to it so i think it'll be interesting to see where conservatism goes in the next couple of years. i don't think there's a solid answer for where it ends up right now there's there's sort of a battle to be fought. well so let me take you away for when you just said there

you i guess i can read that into that is that true did not have a positive impact on conservatism. during his time in office well i guess it depends on the perspective you're looking at it from from my opinion you know as someone who is really concerned with free market values with individual liberty with limiting the government i didn't see a lot of that the trump presidency that being said i do think for people who are more concerned with issues surrounding the culture or surrounding the popularity of the movement surrounding tracting a more diverse population to the movement i think there were some positive takeaways that you could credit to him and i and i think that those are interesting and that's why i think i say there's a battle to be fought because there's a lot of new blood that he brought into conservatism there's a lot of people been pushed out because of him and conservatism and so if those people come back if those new people stay if there's going to kind of be a turf war because i don't think they're fighting for the same ideology largely oh

i don't think they are i know mount point you and i will definitely agree your own thing with the same question do you i mean how has changed conservatives in america if at all and if it is a good or is it for the worse go ahead. so i do think that he definitely changed and separatism america. i think that up until trauma. you had a sort of conservative death definitely since bush one bush 2 you have certain services and that was very focused on. global expansion and very focused on what i guess would be termed neo conservatism. and even from from bush to obama to trump you have the american people voting for someone who's going to stop global expansion stop this kind of focus on the exterior and focus more at home rebuild infrastructure you know focus on programs at home so i think that he kind of gave the people what they wanted he gave a lot of the tea partiers particularly and conservatives what they wanted what they're looking for in a conservative president. i think even further though he he can reinspired.

to come talk to what hal is saying there with the nationalists and i think he did reinspire nationals in the united states which was kind of waning there was a progressive push to kind of nationalism the same place as racism or somebody other things as something evil or something that you shouldn't be doing this if we were in a global world now nations are a thing of the past and i think that that every country has kind of recognize there's there's there's a balance there to be had and i think from kind of brought us back to that balance ok well that's kind of interesting i mean i mean because you know with great power politics it's every country you know thinks of themselves 1st ok and i would tend to agree with you is that you know when you look at look at trade deal since the end of the 2nd world war a world that was think bring people into the western alliance in the united states pick up the slack well you do that for you know 567 decades it's ends up being

quite costly ok and the working class i want to talk about that later in the program they're the ones that we're acutely aware of the most and that's why they voted for him and voted for him twice ok and i mean it when i look when i look at conservatives as i mean oh there's obviously a very least since ronald reagan a very strong libertarian element within conservatism and it's called fusion which i have my very strong doubts about but it seems to me that you know the way a lot of traditional conservatives they're they're basically willing to fight the culture wars ok and not really look at. you know the king at reagan economics i don't think it worked it didn't work for them in the house majority of people for reasons that are there to say here i mean a little is a mix exports are jobs ok and then working working people revolted against that so is it really just about culture wars because that's what really gets all the news all the time is you know how you fall in the culture wars which you know that gets

everyone's blood up in the blue checks get really excited. but it didn't really change the condition of the bast majority of the people that identify as being conservative and their material existence go ahead ana well i think that's a really great question and i think at the end of the day we should be focusing on the economics because that is what people vote on that is why we saw so many working class people vote for him i happen to think he's dead wrong on economics though i don't think that the reason we've seen jobs leave this country have as much to do with trade deals or have as much to do with many of the other things that we saw him point towards immigration and other things of that nature rather i think they had a lot more to do with our actual economic policies here in this country which are pretty atrocious we have for many many years been making it a terrible business climate we've been raising our corporate tax rates we've been over regulating many many industries we have been pushing companies out because we've made it too expensive to do business here and that is what needs to be targeted and we actually see that many of the european countries are often pointed

to as socialist countries have better free market economies than we do and actually ranked higher than us on the freedom and back scale and i think that that is because if you look at what they did starting the 1990 s. they reversed course they moved back from their socialist policies they started removing regulations they started increasing trade they started making it easier to get a job and to work and to make good pay that's what our focus should be on and i think that trans policies while well intended have missed the mark in that regard and i think had we seen another 4 years of trump seance coronavirus and the economic situation that that amplified we would have started to sell some of the effects of those policies that he was pushing around his trade well are the right way to find our way i don't see a big difference between republicans and democrats whatsoever. i don't really see that where the free market is i mean both parties and trump never really challenge corporate america as

a matter of fact and much to my chagrin every time he said we'll look at the high stock market meaning the who. does that have to do with the average person it doesn't it all in almost kind of insulting you know because oh bill you're you're rich friends are doing really well wonderful ok but what about us ok and i think that it has less to do with free markets and regulation then basically i mean the the end of the 1st stimulus package that went through i mean you checked up all your the richest people in the world got checked out 1st with concierge service ok that's nothing do with free trade not at all ok it means you're too big to fail go ahead. i think that's going to issue for a long time i think actually i think a lot of the issues that face america and kind of the western world come down to that you have governments now that answer more to special interests or globalist organizations than they do to their own publics and kind of the voting public is more of a yes we can whip them up to support us that's our stamp of approval technically

but when you look at the policy very little of it is actually going i know this would actually benefit a huge number of people it's really more of this make me look good or this is for my special interests. and i think that's where we get to the root problem and the root of the trump phenomenon which was the idea that this guy is not someone who's been there for 40 years or for 60 years or whatever it is who is bought out and you know completely what's the word. he owes his his entire career to someone else this is someone who potentially could actually just an act all see that does good for us and i think even on the on the free trade part. you know i'm on the economics expert but from what i do know yeah you do want free trade you don't want free market sure absolutely you know what i wanted to but it is over what you what we have is too much monopoly control ok and no one you know the challenge that no one wants to challenge that it is a benefit they're given protections i mean look at the tech companies they're given amazing cut out that has nothing to do that is actually anti free market go ahead

and i think i think this is the point that more libertarians and serves really need to focus on because it's a case where you do have a socialism for kind of a certain class of people or certain group of people that are too big to fail and the government regulations it is government involvement it's unholy alliance between corporatism and government that is and this is where actually what's interesting is i think in some ways the left got this right with their complaint of the one percent but then they've kind of gone too far with it and in some ways the right has gone this wrong with their with kind of throwing this unholy alliance of government and corporate into the idea of it's a free market which it's not. like you said that it was an entity with that yeah i just want to say i agree with everything he said and i absolutely say that the primary focus for us is people on the right as as conservatives as look kerry and

needs to be on cronyism because it is an abundance and we have so many people in this country that are mad at the ramifications of cronyism and so they're demanding a new system right they blame capitalism because they think that this is how cap. functions when really this is government functions when it's involved in market in stars giving special favors and special deals to their bodies and it's wrong it's not free markets it is cronyism it's corrupt and it hurts people and i think that that's in the end we should be able to form really big broad coalitions on even including people on the left because if you can help them understand why the things that they dislike what actually was i that this is exactly what i've been proposing their own long time you know i mean the big the you know when they do 1st and we know that for a fact because. of the working class did support trump at least that's what the merchant here i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on conservatism state authority.

and their newsletter post the usual. but if you have australian. people. who are. used to the times you jump to the nearest union you don't talk. about. to go to college to. play. but it seems to me. to decouple in the study you begin to believe that just with this new book. that i don't hear pretty chilled there will be a choice to be or you're not it will show you so much to be able to. go out of this group through with the coke with full attention you. point of soup that beautiful here at the. course we're going to. you know with whom. to put it that you put in the block. for.

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back to crossfire where all things considered i'm peter lawwell to remind you we're talking about what it means to be a conservative today. ok let's go back to him in the election results that we've been given number one truck and. got over 10000000 more votes and when you look at the the people that voted for me it's surprised a lot of the left wing pundits by probably want to admit it but more blacks more brown people more even women. voted for donald trump and a lot of these people come from the working class is this an opportunity for republicans specifically to make a more appealing case for working people because they the democrats are the party

of big tank of media hollywood and they're very very poor i mean they make sure that they have a voting base that are there or that look for dependency on the government but working people just want to work ok is this an opportunity for the republicans to kind of rethink their the way they approach the electorate yeah absolutely peter and i think that we're seeing a real shift in the parties right now in this country and have been seeing that since about 2012 and you know in the party shift will it back in 2 decades and say oh this is what was happen. and then when you're in the midst of a kind of feel crazy but what we're seeing ringback is we are seeing a large amount of people disinterested with the democrat party right like they've been making their case they've built the party they currently have in the 1960 s. so they've been out here with these policies and these ideas and with the same base for you know 4 or 5 decades and people are fed up they are kind of hitting this point they're saying you know what you guys actually never come through you keep saying you're for the working class you keep saying you're for us you keep saying you're going to improve these things and you don't actually do it and so there's a i think there is

a real openness to look at other ideas and to move directions and and i think to some extent you see that on the right as well just not as in large numbers i think we're going to continue seeing some migration between both parties but i certainly think there is a case to be made within republicanism for why these ideas work for everybody and they do it right if we really get it right if we really get down to a true free market capitalism if we get the government out of the way if we actually let people work then really cool things can happen we've seen them happen in our country before we've seen amazing wealth creation and a vacation we've seen great progress we've seen quality of life increase and so i think that the door's wide open and i'm excited to see who steps through it what kind of leaders might emerge from this i'm curious to see specifically you know as somebody who's more on the libertarian end of the conservative movement i'd like to see some people like rand paul continue to gain prominence and make this case and and i think that they'll find there's real you know futile soul soil to do that and that we could really create a new coalition but what about john knowing i hate josh ali i mean i break i mean i

could say ok but nothing they don't matter don't actually manage it i think josh only is a very prominent prospect for the republican party because i think he's willing to look reshuffle the deck and look at things afresh i'm just putting that out there because actually have a lot of bad marriage converge on shelley and bernie sanders to the 2 senators and then the 98 hour cowards they just didn't want to do any. i think it is absolutely shameful and i appreciate what just if they have bernie sanders ok but to be honest with you arthur what do you think about that because when you use the logic would kind of dictate you know when you look at the blue states that's where the working class are clobbered the most but they vote lou i mean isn't this an opportunity to kind of you know go into that lane that no one is in and just say and i mean if i would have been trump during the campaign because i thought he ran an awful campaign awful and so did the biden people that the american people deserve much

better ok but if i had been donald trump i would have taken the ball the pope pope and just said i will keep you whole and if the republicans are behind me then i won't support you in this campaign because when you look at the campaign coming up in georgia every single conservative should be terrified of you know why because people voted for trump they didn't vote for republicans they voted for trump ok and they did and you know the people around trump a lot of them libertarian excuse me hannah gave him very bad advice during a time libertarian hang on during a time when he needed to be an f.d.r. and he didn't do it or i think there's 2 points of this i think the 1st point is. on the one hand trump seems almost tore my he has the instincts that had he gone with them i think you would have been 10 times better than a death done 10 times better than he did but i think he's been torn by whatever i don't know that's advice i'd i'm not part of his inner circle obviously but for

some reason you seem to be 2nd guessing and i was on corona that was on different policies i was there is a lot of stuff this last year and a half or so leading up to the election that. seemed like it wasn't trump and on the other hand i think the one thing that trump did. to be honest i don't think the republican party would have won another election we saw for a long long time had not been for trump i think that he kind of brought in something that was even more than just the economics economics is important i mean every need to pay their bills but he brought in some like almost a feeling of the past and i mean this in a good way where it was like you know what we can belong to something we can belong to this country and this is a great country and it's ok to love it and so k. to love the constitution and the values and principles it's founded on so people love these things and that and everyone here if you're here in this country and

you're american you belong to this and we can rally around that and i think that that inspired a lot of people and that's why you have these election results that are better than romney or mccain or you know any of these guys a came before and i think how the republican party gone the way that they were going with romney and mccain i think it would have just been a dud just another day 2620 and i mean you know you don't mean it no matter what happens a b.b.q. the republican party is always going to be jeb bush ok and if you if you push against it like trump did they are going to abandon you with some notable exceptions and media the republican party did not back donald trump it was the base that did it in spite of the party either ship and i and i find it very very frustrating because it's one of these weird things and one of these real we go weird things is because in the republican party is popular because of donald trump not because of the other luminaries in the party at all they're not

particularly popular and for very good reason i mean they're not charisma i think they they we tax cut do you like rape the you regulate done our work is done we're going home that's all they say and that doesn't resonate with working people they say well what about us you know just says you know the health care for all is popular very popular with trump. porters the republican leadership doesn't want to recognize that but it's an absolute fact like it is because it's popular doesn't mean we do it socialism is popular and i don't want to try that out like that's not a case of then you know you want to stop the conversation ok you say single payer ok if these scare tactics i think people are tired of and i want to scare not have any hope of him a lot of republican supporters a lot of trouble supporters don't say that they say we'd like some more health care can you help thank you thank you and so go vote for the democrats because they've been offering that free piggy bank of taxpayer dollars for agger and the bank on obamacare another corporate deal another corporate thing ok and that's all any of

it will ever be because that's how serious while people get different talking points behind the scenes but these parties operate at virtually the exact same manner they're always enriching themselves they're always in reaching their bodies and any massive piece of legislation you get through congress is going to look like that until you get serious and fix the money in politics so that's that's just kind of besides the point that doesn't really matter and whether or not i think you're out a deal or you're saying to not be saying is that it's a broken politics is that you can't do anything about it and that you know you can focus in on the wrong things and you can do something about it but that's not what we're fighting about we're largely fighting about the system systemic symptoms to years 2 years all of the government was is everything ok and what did they do they didn't even do infrastructure ok they did a tax cut you know trump's presidency it was that is lowest point his popularity was at its lowest point when they passed a tax cut now that's good for rich people ok fine ok i don't begrudge them but it

didn't it didn't impact the working class voters ok and so and then if you look if you look you know i'll go to her there here is that when it was most popular among republicans during the impeachment ok when he was being impeached he. the most popular the highest point there ok well what i'm trying to get at is that if trump in been much more imaginative in using his popularity and his coattails you could have gotten something but he didn't push health care reform which he said he would during the campaign and he didn't do anything about infrastructure which i think would have been the most important legacy of his presidency and it is a footnote now. i think i think one of the things to keep in mind too is if you this is the thing when you vote in an outsider is everything's uphill right this is a big club as as hannah was saying government especially united states but everyone

westmoreland's a big club and if you're an outsider you're not one of the boys and so it's going to be a struggle to get anything done especially trying to do anything that's different that's not you know about the tide a little bit but i think to to the point you were saying earlier and to what hannah was saying as well i think for conservatives particularly libertarians and anyone who kind of loves freedom i think it's time now to take the old talking points in the old kind of ways of doing things maybe not toss them out but maybe reimagine them because even let's take health care for example i'm canadian i have canadian health care and you know to be very frank it is nice to not worry about. my you know ok my bill i have i have a home there too i don't know if you think about health care do you think about it i really don't but don't you think there's a downside to this that we kind of found out during this virus where when the government owns your health care all the some the government gets to dictate things

to you and you don't have that choice now sadly of us doesn't have a whole lot of choice either 0 it's kind of a bad mix of both right but when you have those options when you have you know maybe there's some sort of protected insurance that can be put out there that's made so that i don't know i'm not going to pretend to come up with a policy right now that you said you said or heard just said regards you are you said let's try to reimagine and i think that's the best place to start but that's the best place to start and take you know the these assumptions that are been you know carved into stone and rethink them you know we're rapidly running out of time and would you or i suppose you do not want to see donald trump run again in 2024 i don't but i do agree with are there i think that we need to come up with better solutions i think the reason you see people asking for single payer health care is because nobody has said here's an alternate that's better and it could work better than that and that needs to happen i have

a really big bone to pick with people on the right of conscience a no no no no no to suggestions of policies on the left and then never come up with their own ideas that's quite frustrating when you need to see people step into that but i will leave you with this donald trump lost most of the swing states by a margin and that was less than the number of libertarian votes in that state so had he done more to reach out to libertarian voters like myself you could be seen as president right now that is the 1st time i've heard that and that's absolutely fascinating. i'm still trying to figure out what actually happened in the election but. but i have no doubt that we'll be looking forward to a ministration ok that's all the time we have here i want to thank my guests in greenville an interrupt i want to thank our viewers for watching us here on. you see you next time and remember.

i can't show you my face but i'm going to teach you my story in 9093 this man was sentenced to death. they could charged with capital murder even though he didn't have the gun didn't pull the trigger didn't intend to kill anybody imagine living in your bathroom for that week with the sound of a 23. i doubt that i deserve to be. confined within 4 gray walls he fucks using. can all tell them to leave dents room. in.

the mainstream media blame dollar trump for their deadly roid sun capitol hill while others point the finger elsewhere when it comes to. his base. this is banana republic. that we're watching happen this is what you expect to see in a banana republic. the american politicians voice their shock comparing the violence in the heart of washington to the kind of thing that happens and what they call the number of publics we look at whether there are so.