will not go on forever the challenge is create the response has been so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we're in it together. a majority in the u.s. house of representatives a vote to impeach donald trump over what they call his incitement of violence at the u.s. capitol last week that made him the 1st us president to be impeached twice during his term in office. despite the pressure of the moment exhausted national guard troops are pictured at the capitol building in the wake of last week's storming supporters. grimm footage from a german highlights the extent of a resurgent pandemic in europe as berlin is accused of stockpiling vaccines at the

expense of other new member states. fuel source you see them in a restaurant takeaway service only i'm sure that's what they said. so what are you doing right now u.k. police on the lockdown violators but are caught on camera apparently breaking the very rules they're supposed to be enforcing. there is a fresh news update for you next hour with my colleague kevin i want to say with us now though for cross talk that's coming up. hello and welcome to cross talk we're all things are considered on peter as the trump presidency comes to an end the country stares into

a political abyss divisions are deeper now than ever before and dialogue is almost nonexistent talk of compromise is deemed to be treasonous by many this will hardly change and january 20. to discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guest michael flanagan in washington he is president of planning in consulting and former congressman in new york we have margaret kimberly she is the editor and senior columnist at the black agenda report annie resting across to mean a shot she is founder of republican women from right across up close and in fact that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok let's go to michael 1st in washington these are very turbulent times that's obvious everyone knows that and i don't think anybody seen anything quite like this in our lifetime and i suppose one of his want to see it again to michael what can we agree on

because we keep cocking about what befalls us of heart and what the divisions are what is there anything left that we can agree on go ahead i think there's i think there's more that makes us the same that makes us different and i've always believed that i have many friends in the n.-g. o. community who are a left not just left of center but left you know way left and we agree on almost nothing politically and very few things socially too sometimes but in our desire to do well for our children our desire to build a strong economy and our desire to live free in our desire to be americans in our desire to do any number of things that we don't even talk about because it's so common to all of our experience and i think if we spent more time focusing on that than on what divides us then we would be able to approach what divides us in an easier way she and i might my dear friend that i am t.d.

the institute for most attractive policy does that sound like it's left of center it certainly has kept us or she and i talked this weekend for almost 2 hours about the election and other things and it was not rancorous were dear friends i mean it was never a difficulty and she thinks that that i'm wrong i think that she's. wrong but people can disagree without having to go to war over it and we remind each other of things of values we share things that we share in the course of the conversation to keep those grounded in a way that we can continue to talk about that which we disagree on and it makes for a pleasant discussion and there's always information shared there's always something i don't know that i learn and something that i share that she doesn't learn that's keeping my going to same thing and i always thought i'm a conservative or but he knows that but i have i thoroughly enjoy speaking with progressive speak as i think there is there there's a realignment going on and while both parties want to ignore it it's reality and

there is a lot more that we have in common in europe it's what's your assessment i mean we the media keeps telling us how much we're divided how much we hate each other and there are those that say we should hate each other what's your take margaret worth well i think everyone can agree that we have a political system that doesn't work with the people. in our system people with money have access ordinary people do not there have been studies which show that we rarely get what we want even if the party we vote for in sup winning the system is built not to give peace. through. they have special interests who control both parties they both. respond to people with cultural and other tropes that appeal to certain segments of the population but the end result is a stimulus bill that helps the wealthy more helps corporations more and helps the

people less who are suffering so i think people wherever they live in the country need help especially this year but we have a system which does not do that i mean and the question same question goes to you because you know i have you know margaret. such a good point i don't care if you're republican or democrat he went with it when when you vote you very rarely get what you thought you got when you put your ballot in the ballot box going to bring in peter that's a perfect segue to saying for me and what i genuinely believe is that our system is very very broken though i do have hope i'm very optimistic about the future of this country where we have large challenges ahead of us we have so much reform we can do to make the system better but that's really what our founders genuinely wanted they wanted us all to strive towards a more perfect union and that means coming together and accepting in the public square that we will have a policy disagreements much like michael talked about though that we are still

americans and that we are still all in this sort of national community together and we can all be better for one another regardless of where we are our station in life because we subscribe to one thing and that's for a better society and that we will continue striving toward that that's been the social pact what we saw last week was a complete and utter erosion of that right in front of our faces in real time happening rapidly we've seen some things happen over the past 4 to 5 years because of our leaders because of the people that this nation has elected at all levels of us government largely federal we have seen that rapid erosion that last week was such a blow to the consciousness of people like me who worked on capitol hill that i have to come out and forcefully say the system is broken and not your vocal bill so we in a way that we must come to the table and knowledge of this such and then work from there if you look at it again that we're probably going to start disagreeing with you john there's only next question is should we of universal meet without any

hesitation condemn the use of binds to. express a political opinion because i agree with you last week was a warrant was saying well it was really a shame book as an american living abroad but i was ashamed when i was shameful behavior but it was a lot of shameful behavior over the. last year months in the united states and this is where we're going to start disagreeing here you know michael when she would agree with me that we have to we have to stop this normalization of by its violence is never right done by whomever does it whether whether i would otherwise agree with them and their just cause for whatever they're looking for if it turns into violence it's wrong there's just there's not a middle ground there's not another place to be if you're hurting other people or even attacking property it's not right it can be explained it can be understood in the case of of the summer with with with b o m i don't know that that all of that was inexplicably horrifically wrong but it

was not right there are easier ways to go about it a mostly peaceful protest should be a completely peaceful protest and to assaults a building or people that say this is just not right i don't i don't know why there isn't any level of disagreement on that. unfortunately there is a lot you know margaret. all 3 of us and i'm sure all the viewers watching this program who have seen those video clips from the company you know it should be just the gowns. went on there were a lot of images i've seen over the last month so i have this proposition and i want to see the people that committed down violence and vandalism against what i would say a sacred institution at least the building respect i don't know his respect the people that were there ok and then look at you know these people are going to be prosecuted should be our other violence during the summer also be held accountable because that's what it's going to get down to is who's held accountable and who

isn't so had yeah well many people were there were thousands of arrests this summer there were in some cases people hit with federal charges who had committed minor offenses or in some cases none at all there were demonstrations where the police when they call it heavily and arrest people who actually hadn't done anything. they were just at the scene of a demonstration it was crowd funding also did he fall out on bail he won't be. capital hill of a get. a 3 shot i'm trying to find some even wilder i knew i had my best yes there were but everybody could get either one i would say but i would go back to what i said in the beginning the demonstrations were the result of the killing of george floyd and what we need is some action oh on the issue in this particular case of. police sealing people under a variety of circumstances as long as that's not result until there is

a system which gives us an assurance that police violence is not committed with impunity then i think we will not have these demonstrations there has to be confidence that the system will address injustice and i so i believe do i completely agree with you went in there in names you know it gets down to the issue of agency ok people have to be held accountable for their behavior everyone has to be held accountable but when i saw over the over the summer months as excuses from people's bad behavior and i think that needs to stop ok because it and it just has a broad brush over so many people that are are very we're all different and we all have agency and so when i look at the demonization of the people in the countable and then i look at you know some of the cities that burned during the summer there's a different way you deal with it and if they should be dealt with be exactly the

same arena go ahead jump in. i must pause because that if you're going to try to bring in b.l.m. and last summer civil unrest and try to equivocate it to anything that happened last week that is absolutely nonsensical that's the one side you can't let out there's no way no no no no no no let's get it correct did anybody die during the civil unrest of last summer did a police officer die during the civil unrest of last summer 23 people arrived there and i did where does that from how did they die how did they die do they have their head bashed in with the fire extinguisher are they a capitol police officer michael gezer got naked but he didn't policeman and you don't have to actually write me were hello don't attack me i'm giving i'm not going to tackle the little i go to putting a lot of blood if you're going to come with us that you know excuse me gentlemen i have the floor when i when there's a law that you must fight it that is how we got here you understand me right now it's time we got here we're going to talk about that tell us about these are

actually not yet not even on this panel right now who makes my career in the capitol building the pot head michael jump it that's our. regiment my fuse on the search quite simple violence is violence and it needs to not happen and whether it's killing people on the street burning their businesses or abusing them for whatever otherwise good reason it is or it is attacking a building of the center of our government and moving through that to get it done and then moving out afterward is unacceptable and you don't need to rationalize it or you don't need to measure it and you sure as hell don't need to sit there and say mine is worse than yours how can you know me was doing wrong if i don't know how i can be interrupted by you can interrupt you but i can be interrupted when we have to we have to watch it and be very careful about how we can agree and this we're trying to do here is find agreement on how we can move forward together and

the answer is violence is bad. and we don't need to say mine is worse than yours yours is worse than mine it's all got awful and in your hand right up in but i mean it's not accountability in the great art of their protests this summer there's a lack of accountability when police are the perpetrators and i'm just going to repeat what i said for when that is result when people have confidence sat there if it line for us to billions and another rule for police and then if you harm someone or kill someone you can expect to be held accountable by the by judicial system until that happens we're going to have a repeat of that that's why b.l.m. bubbles up periodically apparently they're going to let me jump in here not to go to break but one where i think their own agreement everyone should be held accountable for their behavior ok we're going to go to a short break and after that short break can you can you want discussion on

political discourse in american politics they are. going to talk about a word that means different things to different people depending on where you live what area you live what school you went to that war is inflation and. i can't show you my face but i'm going to teach you my story in 1993 and this man was sentenced to death. they could charge county with capital murder even though he didn't have the gun didn't pull the trigger didn't intend to kill anybody imagine living in your bathroom for the week with the scent of a $23.00. i felt it had to serve to be high but it had been very similar to you

have. confined within 4 gray walls peed funny. so using. them to leave defense room. welcome to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're talking about the nature of political discourse in american politics. ok let's go back to rena and take one of one of the things that has bothered me during the. during the election cycle and particularly since the election cycle and particularly since the events on the continent. is it fair and i think if this is a rhetorical question is it fair to really. use a broad brush to describe everyone that is about to support a candidate or as part of one political party because i see this i see voter

shaming a lot and i think that's a relatively new thing for our politics is that if you like a person then you must be x. y. and z. well i was brought up in that in the 1960 s. and i was i saw the race riots on television and i saw the end of pro in my life time and and i have to be really honest my parents were quite racist people and they would always talk about these people of those people and i was brought up to believe that that is wrong and i still think that is wrong so marina i think isn't it we should be very careful how we judge tens of millions of people with one broad brush well the other americans has happened since the beginning of this nation i mean that's that's just a fact and n.p.r. and simple that's what's been done i mean i applaud you for having the past year you're bringing the racism that your parents sort of injected suddenly it seems had been fully naked but not anything you know i was aware of it in your jacket i got

clear to me think no i think i'm applauding that you. rejected god because that takes one's own calculation as an individual to move away from what they've been taught and i think that's what i really want to really get down to folks more than anything my fellow americans i'm never vilified a truck supporter and not because i made my entire career in the republican party but i have made great pains taken great pains rather over the past 4 years to understand terms of porters have conversations with them but last week that's all changed because the thing is is that i subscribe to and you know i don't think i could ask you so you saying that the people that rushed the count at all or all all those people are identical all 70 some 1000000 people there they're the same of those people in the counted i want to be clear here well let's be clear is 70000000 people didn't brush the capital right it was a selected group when. they seem to be perhaps one thing in common support of the president again 70000000 people didn't storm the capital as

a few 1000 people that showed up to storm the capital and i judge those people those people are insurrectionist they should be dealt with this that has been arrested so and so you're not i'm not to those people but would you talk to people trump supporters that weren't accountable yet i talk to the people i would talk to i talked to people who did storm the capitol i'm sure i'm sure there were people who were part of that mob that was there some to peacefully assemble i am not trying to paint with a broad brush and i will not accept any sort of leave to take me that direction at all ever and that is why i don't do that much media is because i reject that american media is that what we're trying to do is put us on this side there's no more french politics anymore there's no more of the fringe from the right is now largely taken over the republican party we've seen that because we've never seen a clear clear and articulate arguments by sitting lawmakers to go and commit acts which are violent mo brooks the senator from alabama sorry the congressman is a blanking right now and i'll tell you why in just

a 2nd i'm oprah student. the capitol i mean sorry the white house to live and said go make them pay similar words basically go give them help words like that inciting violence these are things we never heard from any lawmaker across the aisle and here's the thing about me is on that day on wednesday january 6th i was trapped for 5 hours at $11.00 constitution avenue the closest private building to the capitol west front which is where the group assemble for 5 hours i worried about my own personal safety when i had to hear the sounds of sirens tear gas explosives this was deeply personal for me because if you're sitting there watching the whole thing with an unobstructed view and worried about how you might make it home. for me it all changed when i saw them on hundreds of people make their way between the building that houses the senate and the main building which houses the capitol dome i knew that the police were overwhelmed and that was

a genuine feeling of fear inside me because i was a former congressional staffer and well acquainted with the procedures of the u.s. capitol complex the fear i had in my life my heart and my my my heart sank that day because i knew something was fundamentally changing america is that we were allowing this certain group of people to commit violence who is allowing here man to intervene or republicans and then when that act. well we had in this situation we had the president of the united states leading people to believe that the election result could be changed if they showed up i'm january 6 and that was just not true and legally i don't know what the president is culpable for having done but it was a wrong thing for him to do people have a right to support him he got millions of 0 to 10000000 more than he got in 2016

clearly a large bulk of the population are his supporters but it was not true that by showing up that day they could undo the election and i think with particularly shameful for some of these republicans who were so cynical there were some republicans who said he even have a conversation none of them said that the election results were wrong all acknowledge that biden won and yet they allowed people to think that this was going to happen and they should all be held accountable in some way by their voters by their colleagues but but i also want to. say this about about what what happened that day and about. talking to people we can talk to each other right i know people who don't agree with me i think like most people i have contact with people who who agree with me but i think there's one thing he agree or

in american politics is a lot of show it's like professional wrestling there are only villains there are 2 he arose but at end of the day nobody gets what they and that is why we have so much more oil does he know what interests are served at the end of the day i am a bit and that's why we have the culture wars ok because yes that's why we have and again it's all you know bread and circuses that you know we everyone gets of each other's throat over these cultural wars when you have to country is poor now and you have a political establishment they can't get off its back sign to get $2000.00 and to be able to hand when all their buddies were bailed out happy year before ok and we're still arguing about that and that really infuriated me he did it doesn't matter if you're a trump supporter a biden supporter. the likelihood that you're having hard times now is extremely high ok mike. that was my lecturer go ahead mike. margaret

you and i have to do a radio show made a fortune only rarely because i agree with almost everything margaret said except like. about 50000000 trump supporters and and about 20 percent of the democrats i think the president did win that election and i have no problem saying so out but mr biden will be inaugurated next week and he will be inaugurated because the states came and said this is our guy because congress certified that's our system and that's how it works i'm from chicago the land of elections that are always kind of will see and so i don't i don't i don't have the same fury inside of me when one is taken and not otherwise however and having said. that the people who are aggrieved not not the few 100 they can went into the capitol building or even the few 1000 that surrounded the capitol building but the 10s of millions who are

aggrieved are feeling with out. that they have not been heard and i think that's really what it is it's not so much they want trump to be their president although they do but that's the that's the tangible way of talking about their problem i think it is the fact that they do not feel that they have had a fair hearing or a fair airing of their grievance and i think mr biden has a very unique opportunity here you know great trials a giveaway to great achievements if they're used correctly and this trial could be used by mr biden where he would otherwise may have had a hold on presidency this moment will give him the opportunity to say look we are going to come together and here's how we're going to do it and he would do very well to reach out and grab that with both arms and say i can't have $75000000.00 americans feeling completely alienated from their own country and to look at them in the eye and say they'll get over it in time move on or they need to get over it

now is not helpful and it hasn't worked yet it but one of the things i have to say that i do not that he said that he hasn't but others have and i think mr biden can move us forward saying when i think that during the last 2 months what could have been done and i think should have been done is that all of the claims because people have a lot of grievances about the election i mean i'm flooded with personal stories ok really and people across the political spectrum i really wish they'd taken these you know months to everything if they're if they're not true then do it debunk it you know i mean how who really press conference ok we got this 10 we're going to dismiss these 10 today tomorrow going to dismiss the next day i think that and that would have been helpful for i he wanted very helpful for that here who've been aggrieved to say look you're a mike you're. an idiot here's what you've been saying this but that's not how it isn't here let me show you some extra debt or something none of it the president has been completely a wall and the president's legal team is tell me what my god oh you don't believe

bad and if. you've been radical i'm top of all of that the democrats because it's what they do it's not because they're evil it's just what they do have frustrated every effort to have a bipartisan look if we went back to 2000 i'm sorry margaret i'm going to guess and i'm here i'm going to finish but if we went back to like 2000 and didn't like that we're a republican a democrat said chicken jolly and looked at every ballot and did what they did an entertainer chads into the lexicon the democrats still might not have been happy like they were than the republicans wouldn't be happy now if it turns out that they will last but you can't you wouldn't be able to say look you didn't have a shot you didn't have a good look you didn't have a good c edit the democrats were forthcoming they did show you what was there in the elections and what happens none of that has come to pass and that leads to all the conspiracy theories the anger the fury and this is this is really the basis of the problem mr biden can put his arms around this and can make us can heal us i

hope he will mark foley had terrible elections in this country we have a quilt of 50 different rules for a 50 different states how our ballots counted this state lets you send an absentee ballot after election day this state doesn't lets you do it the media decides that someone won the state instead of waiting to decide by some universally accepted rules who want to state. people can be taken off the ballot easily in this state not in that state end result is something which is not legitimate for anybody it's disgraceful i'm going to write what i think you mean here we have run out of time and we started the grieving and the bit in the beginning of the program and where even at the very end we need election reform for a common. and in some elections here i want to thank my guests in washington new york and reston i want to thank our viewers for watching us here r.g.c. next time and remember.

the war in syria has lasted longer than world war 2. who has been suffering the most in this almost an down to long conflict regular syrian people. need is more than when you my for many years you know the strain. i could see everything with my own eyes and hear the stories of its residents one group in particular russian wives of syrian man. good day when you're close to them look up to its international just maybe its. nuclear become a battleground in the u.s.

in vermont people are demanding the shutdown of a local plant from my yankee is right now my focus because it's a very dangerous oh no care power plant the owner is attempting to run the reactive beyond its operational limit this case just sort of puts a magnifying glass on where's the power in this country where is it going is it moving more towards corporate interests or is it more in the idea of a traditional participatory democracy as are power lie with the people this case demonstrates that struggle in very real ways our struggle on oxy.

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