hello and welcome to worlds apart of islam stables in florence to be catholic what we wish for less to come true after 4 years of the insufferable dylan of trump think democrats in the united states i triumphantly returning to power not only to the presidency but also to a congressman gertie's is that a reason for the celebration of oppression haps for caution but to discuss that i'm now joined by a bald and bellow an international a judge professor at the state university of new york and author all counter-revolution the global rise of the far right professor bell it's good to talk to you thank you very much for your time and thank you for inviting me now to

your joining us from the philippines but i'm pretty sure you know what you get benson the united states quite closely it's a very very complicated picture and we'll try to adapt some of it but for starters let me ask you about your main filling your pick john and then the attitude as you look at the inauguration off joe biden in a few days is it's one of holds. well actually if i may just give you my sense. a realistic sense of what's going to happen. i think biden is going to be facing a very difficult 4 years. and. i think the united states is entering an era that will be full of social conflict in which you will not only have elections but you might have many of those

elections by disputes under street as i said in an article that i just did and it was widely circulated in the united states the u.s. is entering what i think will be the vine mark era in other words an era very much similar to the weimar republic in germany in the 19th twenties where you had conflicts electoral conflicts mixed with. street battles turman who come out on top absolutely and professor people discuss that article in a great i detail i recommend of yours to check it out it's a very thought provoking read but bringing you a little bit back to your own political persuasions i am pretty sure that you are not a supporter of donald trump i think it's it comes out pretty clear in your interviews but would it be fair to say that the democrats brand of politics is

a little bit closer to your hard to spied their recognition and i think you articulated if very clearly in your book that it was the alliance of the democratic party with the neo liberal globalist corporate forces that ultimately created the conditions on the ground conditions for the rise of trump and trump has. well i would say so i mean i think that the movement represented by donald trump is very much of a far right extremist movement and democratic party politics are more literalistic in that sense and you know way. you would say much more open to debate and discussions were to go one of the reasons why it's so difficult to discuss these things in the american context is because us politics is very very bipolar if there is very little space for that paradox it's either good

or bad it's either extremist or progressive assists and. real live and analysis is always about holding the office it's i want to ask you not as a political person but is this caller as a sociologist ease trunk and trunk isn't really so eerie dim a bully bad as the democrats and their friends in the democratic pro-democratic media present it to be well my sense is to approach it. you know a social list. category sation. people and you know the movement that he has created is an extremist movement. and makes it exciting race that can you define what makes it extremist.

well my sense is you know that. it is pushed by a very strong streak of white nationalists. and you know and now it i would say that the republican party which used to be a traditional conservative party is now mainly responding to the white nationalist base of cum and that is what i mean by extremist in this american context at this point that it is basically being motivated by an social nativist and a racist push. and i think people in the united states if for instance if you are somebody who belongs to the minorities what you see happening right now in terms of republican politics is going to be very threatening

to you if i'm surprised you say that because i have many friends of different color in the united states and some of them happen to be supporters of don't chomp on some of them happen to be african-american who are the minorities but rather than arguing about that can i ask you a counter question because you are not the 1st one to point out that the republican party has pursued the so-called soften strategist since i think the mid 19 $160.00 s. but isn't it also true that the democratic party. also has exploited the aspirations of the minorities without necessarily putting in a full hearted attempt to correct the historic wrongs isn't it also true that the democrats are treating minorities as as a voting group rather than the people who they have to serve. well the democratic party has

a very interesting evolution because they're republicans pursued a southern strategy which eventually ended up you know with a very strong racist component as a motivating factor the democrats started out. basically a southern party i mean you know a market that had a very strong southern base. and evolved from being sort of the enablers of racism after reconstruction in the united states to becoming to spark it that eventually ended up being the party of civil rights so i would say yes there are elements within the democratic party you know that you know are very instrumental list interview off minority issues but at the same time this is also opened up to minorities and where you now have minorities being

a very central component in determining where disparity is going at this point i think it's pretty clear that the democrats returning to power in the out for revenge they not only want to punish don't know chum for being done a lot i think it's also pretty clear that they want to eliminate any possibility of him running again in 2020 for. his twitter and other accounts have been permanently caught the mayor of new york and had just announced the city's cutting all contracts with the trump corporation without trump standing any trial as a few yet so there is clearly no legal basis for that those are all political moves do you think though that they will achieve the goal that is eliminating donald trump as a public persona as a major influence in the american politics. my sense is they won't

and i think you know that you know donald trump is going to remain. i believe the most formidable figure within the republican party hish stature may be diminished a bit but i think seeing donald trump and having looked at him over the last few years you know this day is not going to go away and that's what they said jail and there are lots of democrats calling for just that this is a double edged sword for the democrats and the sens you know that. it might in fact create a situation where. we'll be no. restraint or . you know what happened in 1023 in germany right where you had the unique beer hoax that resulted in yet they're going to trial and using

that in order to in fact propagate his beliefs and his being in jail you know serve the purpose of the rights of the nazi party so i'm not saying that's not going to be the same thing that would happen in the united states but that is a possibility so either complet be restrained and he will become a smaller figure or it could also be a platform for the future for him well i think if history and psychology of any guidance the. prosecution or persecution of trump is only likely to far then his base. speaking about his base in one of his recent articles i believe it was the one on the parallels with the by my republican your role of that this 74000000 americans who voted for trump are. after it strikes me as such a common fairy tale fantasy on the part of the last they they seem to believe that

trump is this evil freezer it who curse than a fart of the electorate and it would only take you know. the laugh though at the progressive friday again as not as a night in the shining armor and kissing you know for voters to bring things back to normal is that's really the case is it really don't know. who is casting the spell on those $74000000.00 perhaps it's the other way around. in that 74000000 are asking him well yes i that's a good point you made when i said bella you know that was sort of a metaphor and maybe. i would not use the same method for it. because you know in other are to just believe that articulate shout i did say that is as much a creation of the base as

a creator of the base so there is that center kick in fact i would say and i wrote earlier in another article you not you know that if. she were to cease you know pushing very hard on a lot of the themes and issues that post in a in a very strong as i would say white nationalist way. from building that then i think that base would not support him anymore well let's take a very short break right now but back in just a few moments. welcome

back to well it's a party with bold and bellow author all counter-revolution the global price of the far right professor bello before the break we started discussing your comparison it's been modern day america and the weimar republic and you wanted that article

that the united states may be up for more street violence if it indeed goes the way of germany in the early 20th century because the forces off. when they lose at the ballot box often resort to street violence and i think this is an extremely extremely hot timely warning but i wonder if there is only one revanche is force here john she seemed the same revanche as street agang anger exploiting. democratic side as well. well let me just say that. i've looked at those in comparison to you know the riots that took place recently in the capital and you know i would say that most of those. demonstrations were quite peaceful and you know there were a few sunsets i would say comparatively in which there was you know as you know

some degree of violence. but i would say that you know that most of those were peaceful civil rights protest that that's the 1st thing i would say the 2nd thing is i've never been to the democrats sort of does anyone force in fact you yourself mentioned early on you know that i think one of their recent is that creates a dis base for come among the white working class less from clinton to obama day. a lot of the neo liberal you know narrative which ended up with de industrialization loss of jobs loss of jobs to china financialization of the economy from which a lot of americans you know both menarche obsessed about the white working class

suffered so i would say that. that. the democrats. over the last. several years. have also contributed to their right off the base now professor bell i know that it's an anathema to any progressive history here at the peaceful nature of those rides being disputed but you know just stating south fact they claimed at least $25.00 lives cost between $1.00 and she you $1000000000.00 in damages that frankly they rate the costliest rides in the entire history of the u.s. insurance industry and i understand that this symbol is not storming the the capitol building but do you think it's intellectually fair considerate that they that as a singular event something that has never happened before if you know are all the street violence that has been happening on the streets of the united states for

months and months before one if you look at what has happened you know. over the last few years in which there have been so many incidents you know the least killing afro americans. and then you see what happened in the george slade case you know that the outburst of anger from the afro-american community was very understandable. and yet who were the ones you know who really were provoking so much of the violence if you look for if you look at seattle you had broken come groups were down once that were carrying firearms if you look at arby's on a what happened during the elections you know fire people were threatening electro workers so i just don't think there's any comparison between what happened in capitol hill as opposed to the outburst of hunger anger on the streets that's where

largely the flow that occurred during the summer so i would not have this what i would close false equivalence you know between what has the there ike has done and what americans have none over the summer well i'm not blaming africa i forgot americans in fact i think many of the riots featured people of color and among the criminals there were people of color i think that's unnecessarily stigmatizing to try to sort of symbolize those kind of events and a touch them to any particular group but just in terms of. you know lives lost and property damaged. you're right there is absolutely no comparison between the riots and the storming of the capitol hill because the rights from much more damaging i mean like just pure fact that going back to the events on the capitol hill. but i

would just you know those figures i think i'm not actually sure. you know when you're saying destroyed lives were lost well you know what are we talking about we're dispy people that were hit by police guns you know so you know i mean there's this false equivalence that you're saying what you had on capitol hill was basically even mine for certain certainly one that was killed in the process and there were 4 others but when you're talking about what's happening on the streets. i'm not going to say that you know those lives were cost but after american activists that were out in the streets i. think that either i'm saying that violence has been street violence has been instrumental lies for political purposes during summer and fall events and it's going to well let's look at it this way if i

were out if i were an afro american i would be out in the streets and i would not let anybody the mental i the people's businesses would you be attacking his bio people are elderly couples enjoying that glass of beer on the street i bet you wouldn't because they that of course. i wouldn't do that but at the same time i think that to be imputing you know that those were begun by afro americans i never said. that's what i have. i said and. let us say there was a lot of evidence that where there were provocateurs maybe police people that were responsible for a descent to divide in many of those instances it's interesting you say that because there are 3 just now are investigating whether the police people and how many police people were present within the crowd that stormed the capitol hill and

. you know on some level you can understand their presence there as well because racism is a very entrenched problem in. the united states and putting it. on the would be problem also be unfair and with also be quite manipulative but i want to bring us back to the events of the capitol hill because it's very difficult to my heart because i've been covering color revolutions around the world for several decades and storming government buildings is it is a whole mark of a revolution that democratic administrations have always cheered the paan take events in the ukraine in 20132014 when pretty much all government buildings were overrun by protesters take the arab spring a bounce a few years prior they by then and a bomb of people cheered it on they described it as the will of the people despite the damage to property despite some people including officials being killed they saw it as an expression of people's will there was no talk of insurrection back

then what has changed how the events on the capital feel different from what we saw all around the world in the last couple of years. as you know exxon i've been quite critical of american intervention in you know some many other places throughout the world i mean a you know certainly in you know in the case of chile for instance and or all of the central intelligence agency in provoking you know. assisting those right wing groups that took place then so i'm not going to. say and i think positive about what obama and biden did in the past 6. clearly you had a situation for instance in the middle east where you know the obama biden intervention in libya created a much more greater problem what what i'm trying to say is that whether republican

or democrats americans. forces you know. i have traditionally. engaged in a lot of intervention in developing countries developing countries elsewhere so i'm not going to say republican interventions and democratic and they're very. worse than the other in fact you know that's what we've been so much against since we started speaking about breaking the law and i think it's really looks like one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter case i want to ask you. efforts and calls on the part of they a democratic administration to. change the definition of domestic terrorism the biden team even prior to the events on the capitol hill was looking into that they are all in favor of that do you think it's warranted and do you think it's going to

be good for america well i don't know exactly the details of this proposed so. you know but i think we have to be very careful you have a situation whereby domestic terrorism you know if defined in a way you know that illegitimacy or makes illegal. political protest that is peaceful and that is a legitimate protest and that's always you know very important fine line to to make sure it doesn't go in defining domestic. protest that is peaceful and legal as a leader i just want to. highlight and i don't exchange students that it was president of the philippines or dig a detective who. pretty much tied it out of the and domestic and to terror

legislation in his country in 2020 an. interesting case that has that it's a progressive administration of joe biden that it's going the exact same measure now putting that aside and when that being watched that has to be watched very closely because any restriction off legitimate expression of civil liberties have to be opposed to whether it is by the church or it would be by a democratic administration in the united states absolutely i agree and that brings us back to your i think great analogy with that weimer republic because that republican law. he player was sworn in as a chancellor one of the collator he is governments that have looking up its political opponents decreasing that our freedom of speech their freedom of expression and i think any comparisons with hitler are always many people that if

always ill fated but i just want to point out that it's the democratic party that is now calling for changing in the domestic terrorism law that it that is calling for lucking out people who served in the trump of ministration and who are restricting the freedom of expression for. trump supporters do you think there is a chance do you see a danger at all of the progressive administration of a joe biden going down that way that you pointed out in the article but i bet you meant. you know on the back of your mind here you are primarily focusing on trump but do you think the same could happen with his opponents because we all have a tendency of ultimately living out our shadows sure now and definitely i think that would be a danger and. i think that the progressives in the democrat democratic party who are very concerned about civil liberties you know will be

looking very closely at the biden administration would be doing if in fact a recent move to redefine the. definition of domestic terrorists so as to use it for parkinson's and that could then be used against everybody whatever party i hope that the democrats the progressives in the democratic party and i believe they are looking at this fairly closely at this point in time that this is something that they should not allow and i think it's not only the case of the weimer republic but also of the young soviet republic that is very instructive in this regard because unfortunately history proves that good intentions and believing that you and only you are the ultimate incrimination everything good ensuring that well they usually it leads to very very disasters outcomes professor bell it's been great for. you there oksana yes i think it is very important to make sure

that whatever party comes to power does not have dissed puritanical kind of mentality to be only are the ones that represent the good and because that has been an. attitude era mentality that's a smell that so much of the faster internationally. as you can see we are not so worlds apart and they need more updates on this for thank you very much for being with us today and thank you guys for watching folks here again next week and lots of parts.

i can't show you my face but i'm going to teach you must store in 9093 this man was sentenced to death. they could charged with capital murder even though he didn't have the gun didn't pull the trigger didn't intend to kill anybody imagine living in your bathroom for that week with his turn of the 23. to be. confined within 4 gray walls the phone it's using. him to leave defense room. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy to confront a shouldn't let it be an arms race in his office very dramatic development the only

personally i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk. 6 e.u. nations hit out of fines or after receiving fewer vaccine doses then they had expected the company says it was due to manufacturing upgrades designed to boost production . another obama era strategist is lined up for the incoming biden administration signaling a rocky road ahead for relations with russia speaking to r.t. investigative journalist glenn greenwald warns against being blindsided by the prism of the past. people. in the streets just like the democrats are very clear that is why.