but also to a congressman charging is that a reason for celebration of all perhaps the costs and not to discuss that i'm now joined by wall than fellow and international agenda professor at the state university of new york and author all counter-revolution the global rise of the far right professor bell it's good to talk to you thank you very much for your time and thank you for inviting me oksana now you're joining us from the philippines but i'm pretty sure you know what you get vents of the united states quite closely it's a very very complicated picture and we'll try to adapt some of that for starters let me ask you about your main filling your predominant attitude as you look to where the inauguration off joe biden and if you days is it's one of hold. well actually if i may just give you my sense. a realistic sense of what's going to happen. i think biden is going to be facing

a very difficult for years. and. i think the united states is entering an era that will be full of social conflict in which you will not only have elections but you might have many of those elections by disputes on the street as i said in an article that i just did and was widely circulated in the united states the u.s. is entering what i think will be the vine mark era in other words an era very much similar to the weimar republic in germany in the 19th twenties where you had conflicts electoral conflicts mixed with. street

battles for term in who come out on top absolutely and professor people discuss that article in a great i detail i recommend hour of yours to check it out it's a very thought provoking read but bringing you a little bit back to your own political persuasions i am pretty sure that you are not a supporter of donald trump i think it's it comes out pretty clear in your interviews but would it be fair to say that the democrats' brand of politics is a little bit closer to your hard to spied recognition and i think you articulated if very clearly in your book that it was the alliance of the democratic party the neo liberal globalist corporate forces that ultimately created the conditions on the ground conditions for the rise of trump and trump as. well i would say so i mean i think that the movement represented by donald trump is very much of a far right extremist movement and democratic party politics are more literalistic

in that sense and you know way. you would say much more open to debate and discussions to work to go one of the reasons why it's so difficult to discuss these things in the american context is because u.s. politics is very very bipolar there's very little space for that paradox it's either good or bad it's either extremist or progressive assists and. real life and analysis is always about holding the opposites i want to ask you not as a political person but as this caller as a sociologist ease trump and trump isn't really so if we deem a bully bad as the democrats and their friends if the democratic pro-democratic media present it to be. well my sense is to approach it.

you know a social list. category sation off the people and the movement that he has created is an extremist movement. and breaks it can you define what makes it extremist. well my sense is that. it is pushed by a very strong streak of white nationalists. and you know. it i would say that the republican party which used to be a traditional conservative party is now made her responding to the white nationalist base of cum and that is what i mean by extremist in this american context at this point that it is basically being motivated by an.

nativist and racist push. and i think people in the united states if for instance if you are. somebody who belongs to the minorities what you see happening right now in terms of republican politics is going to be very threatening to you if i'm surprised you say that because i have many friends of different color in the united states and some of them happen to be supporters of don't chomp on some of them happen to be african-american who are the minorities but rather than arguing about that can i ask you a counter question because you are not the 1st one to point out that the republican party has pursued the so-called soften strategist since i think the mid 1960 s. but isn't it also true that the democratic party. also has

exploited the aspirations of the mine aren't just without necessarily putting in a full hearted attempt to correct the historic wrongs isn't it also true that the democrats are treating minorities as as a voting group rather than the people who they have to serve. well the democratic party has a very interesting evolution because they're republicans pursued a southern strategy which eventually ended up you know with a very strong racist component as a motivating factor the democrats started out as basically a southern party you know a market that had a very strong southern base. and evolved from being sort of the enablers of racism after reconstruction in the united states to becoming to

spark it that eventually ended up being the party of civil rights so i would say yes there are elements within the democratic party you know that you know are very instrumental list interview off minority issues but at the same time this is also the park opened up to minorities and where you now have minorities being a very central component in determining where disparity is going at this point i think it's pretty clear that the democrats returning to power in the out for revenge they not only want to punish don't know trump for being done a lot i think it's also pretty clear that they want to eliminate any possibility of him running again in 2024. his twitter and other accounts have been permanently caught the mayor of new york and had just announced the city's cutting all contracts with the trump corporation of without trump

standing any trial as off yet so there is clearly no legal basis for that those are all political moves do you think though that they will achieve the goal that is eliminating john as a public persona as a major influence in the american politics. my sense is they won't and i think you know that you know donald trump is going to remain. i believe the most formidable figure within the republican party here stature may be diminished a bit but i think seeing donald trump and having looked at him over the last few years you know this day is not going to go away and that's what they said jail and there are lots of democrats calling for just that this is a double edged sword for the democrats in the sense you know that. it might in fact

create a situation where. we'll be no. restraint or . you know what happened in 1023 in germany right where you had the unique bear hoax that resulted in yet there are going to trial and you're saying that in order to in fact propagate his beliefs and his being in jail you know serves the purpose of the rights of the nazi party so i'm not saying that's not going to be the same thing that would happen in the united states but that is a possibility so either complet be restrained and he will become a smaller figure or it could also be a platform for the future for him well i think if history and psychology of any guidance. prosecution or persecution of tromp is only likely to far then his

base. speaking about his base in one of his recent articles i believe it was the one on the parallels with the by my republican your road that this 74000000 americans who voted for trump are. after it strikes me as such a common fairy tale fantasy on the part of the last they they seem to believe that trump is this evil freezer it who curse then a 4th of the electorate and it would only take you know. laugh though at the progressive writing in ass not as a night in the shining armor and kissing you know those who are opposed to bring things back to normal is that really the case is it really don't trump who is casting the spell on those 74000000 perhaps it's the other way around. in that 74000000 are asking him well yes i that's

a good point you made when i said bella you know that was sort of a metaphor and maybe. i would not use the same method for it. because you know in other are to just believe that articulate shall i did say that is as much a creation of the base as a creator of the base so there is that center kick in fact i would say and i wrote earlier in another article you not you know that if i were. to see you you know pushing very hard on a lot of the themes and issues that post in a in a very strong as i would say white nationalist way. from building that then i think that base would not support him any more well professor bella let's take a very short break right now but the back in just a few moments. the

world is driven by. dare's thinks. we dare to ask. the guy war in syria has lasted longer than world war 2.

who has been suffering the most there's almost no damage in long conflict regular syrian people need. is more than when you're going to hear your words rain resting i could see everything with my own eyes and hear the stories of its residents one group in particular russian wives of syrian man the whole school. they were too stupid to look up to it's in the national just world it's. welcome back to worlds apart and with all the bellow off there all the counter babble the shit the global of rise of the far right the professor bellow before the break we started discussing your comparison it's been modern day america and the by

margaret public and you wanted that article that the united states may be up for more street violence if it indeed goes the way of germany in the early 20th century because the forces of 3 batches when they lose at the ballot box often resort to street violence and i think this is an extremely extremely hot time early warning but i wonder if there is only one the evangelist force here john she see this same reaction. this street agang anger exploiting energies on the democratic side as well. well let me just say that. i've looked at those in comparison to you know the riots that took place recently in the capital and you know i would say that most of those demonstrations were quite peaceful and you know there were

a few. i would say comparatively in which there was you know some degree of violence but i would say that you know that most of those were peaceful civil rights protest that that's the 1st thing i would say the 2nd thing is i've never been to the democrats sort of does anyone force in fact you yourself mentioned early on you know that i think one of the reasons that create a dis base for come among white working class you know from clinton to obama day. a lot of the. you know narrative which ended up with dean best really sation loss of jobs loss of jobs to china china actually sation of the economy from which a lot of americans you know both minority access about the white working class

suffered so i would say that. that. the democrats both east over the last. several years. have also contributed to their right off the base now professor bell i know that it's an anathema to any progressive to stay here at the peaceful nature of those rides being disputed but you know just stating south fact they claimed at least $25.00. lives cost between that $1.00 and she you $1000000000.00 in damages that frankly they rate the costliest rides in the entire history of the u.s. insurance industry and i understand they dissemble is not storming the the capitol building but do you think it's intellectually fair considerate that they that as a singular event something that has never happened before and ignore all the street

violence that has been happening on the streets of the united states for months and months before happen if you look at what has happened you know over the last few years in which there have been so many incidents you know police killing. americans. and then you see what happened in the charged case you know that the outburst of anger from the afro-american community was very understandable. and yet who were the ones you know who really were provoking so much of the violence if you look for if you look at seattle you had protests groups were done once that were carrying firearms if you look at our is on a what happened during the elections. people were threatening electoral workers so i just don't think there's any comparison between what happened in capitol hill as opposed to the outburst of hunger anger on the streets that's where largely the

flow that occurred during the summer so i would not have this what i would close false equivalence you know between what has the there ike has done and what americans have none over the summer well i'm not blaming africa african-americans in fact i think many of the riots featured people of color and among the criminals there were people of color i think that's. i'm necessarily stigmatizing to try to sort of symbolize those kind of events and to touch them to any particular group but just in terms of. you know lives lost and property damaged. you're right there is absolutely no comparison between the riots and the storming of the capitol hill because their rights were a much more damaging and like just pure fact that going back to the events on the

capitol hill. but i would just you know those figures i think i'm not at all actually shooter you know when you're saying destroy lives were lost well you know what are we talking about were just people that were hit by police guns you know so you know i mean there's this false equivalence that you're saying what you had on capitol hill was basically even mine for certain certainly one that was killed in the process and there were 4 others but when you're talking about what's happening on the streets. i'm not going to say that you know those lives were cost but after american activists that were out in the streets i just i had ever saying that either i'm saying that violence has been street violence has been instrumental lies for political purposes during summer and fall events and it's going to well let's look at it this way if i were out if i were an afro-american i

would be out in the streets and i would not let anybody the mental i the people's businesses would you be attacking his bio people are elderly couples enjoying that glass of beer on the street i bet you wouldn't because they that of course. i wouldn't do that but at the same time i think that to be imputing you know that those were begun by afro americans. that's what. i said and. there was a lot of evidence that where there were provocateurs maybe police people that were responsible for a descent into violence in many of those instances it's interesting you say that because they're 3rd just now are investigating whether the police people and how many police people were present within the crowd that stormed the capitol hill and

. you know on some level you can understand their presence there as well because racism is a very entrenched problem in the united states and putting it. on the would be problem also be unfair and would also be quite manipulative but i want to bring us back to the events of the capitol hill because it's very difficult to my heart because i've been covering color revolutions around the world for several decades and storming government buildings is it is a whole mark of a revolution that democratic administrations have always cheered the plan take a balance in the ukraine in 20132014 when pretty much all government buildings were overrun by protesters take the arab spring a bounce a few years prior they by then and a bomb of people cheered it on they described it as the will of the people despite the damage to property despite some people including officials being killed they saw it as an expression of people's will there was no talk of insurrection back

then what has changed how the events on the capital feel different from what we saw all around the world in the last couple of years. as you know exxon i've been quite critical of american intervention in you know some many other places throughout the world i mean a you know certainly in you know in the case of chile for instance and or all of the central intelligence agency in provo. ok you know assisting those right wing groups that took place then so i'm not going to. say and i think positive about what obama and biden did in the past. clearly you had a situation for instance in the middle east where you know the obama biden intervention in libya created

a much more greater problem what what i'm trying to say is that whether republican or democrat american. forces you know. you now have traditionally. engaged in a lot of intervention in developing countries not only in developing countries but elsewhere so i'm not going to say republican interventions and democratic and they're very one is worse than the other in fact you know that's what we've been so much against since we started speaking about breaking the law and i think it's really looks like one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter case i want to ask you about. efforts and calls on the part of a a democratic administration to. change the definition of domestic terrorism the biden team even prior to the events on the capitol hill was looking into that they

are all in favor of that do you think it's warranted and do you think it's going to be good for america. well i don't know exactly the details of this proposal. you know but i think we have to be very careful you have a situation whereby domestic terrorism you know if defined in a way you know that illegitimacy or makes illegal. protest that is peaceful and that is a legitimate protest and that's always you know very important fine line to make sure it doesn't go in defining domestic. protest that ish peaceful and legal as illegal so that's that's that's. i am worried about that and i just want to. highlight and i don't exchange students that

it was president of the philippines or dig a detective who. pretty much tied it out of the and domestic anti-terrorist legislation in his country in 2020 an. interesting case that has that it's a progressive administration of joe biden that it's moving the exact same measure now putting that aside and one that i think that's being watched that has to be watched very closely because any restriction. legitimated expression of civil liberties have to be opposed to whether it is by the church or it would be by a democratic administration in the united states absolutely i agree and that brings us back to your i think great analogy with that weimer republic because that republican law. he player was sworn in as a chancellor one of the collator he is governments that have looking up its political opponents decreasing that our freedom of speech their freedom of

expression and i think any comparisons with hitler are always many people that if always ill fated but i just want to point out that it's the democratic party that is now calling for changing in the domestic terrorism law that is calling for lucking out people who served in the trump of ministration and who are restricting the freedom of expression for. trump supporters do you think there is a chance do you see a danger at all of the progressive administration of a joe biden going down that way that you pointed out in the article but i bet you man. you know on the back of your mind here you are primarily focusing on trump but do you think the same could happen with his opponents because we all have a tendency of ultimately living out our shadows sure now and definitely i think that would be a danger and. i think that the progressives in the democrat.

democratic party who are very concerned about civil liberties you know will be looking very closely at what the bite an administration would be doing if in fact a recent move to redefine the. definition of the best terrorists so as they use it for parkinson's and that could then be used against everybody whatever party i hope that the democrats the progressives and the democratic party and i believe they are looking at this fairly closely at this point in time that this is something that they should not allow and i think it's not only the case of the weimer republic but also of the young soviet republic that is very instructive in this regard because unfortunately history proves that good intentions and believing that you and only you are the ultimate incrimination everything good ensuring that

well they usually it leads to very very disasters outcomes professor bell it's been great. there oksana yes i think it is very important to make sure that whatever party comes to power does not have dissed puritanical kind of mentality to be only are the ones that represent the good and because that has been an. that so much the faster international. as you can see we are not so worlds apart anymore updates on this for thank you very much for being with us today thank you guys for what you hope to syria get next week and lots of parts.

i can't show you. but i'm going to. in 9093 this man was sentenced to death. they could charged with capital murder even though he didn't have the gun didn't pull the trigger didn't intend to kill anybody imagine living in your bathroom for the week with the son of a $23.00. i don't doubt that. but it had been. confined within 4 gray walls the phone it's using hot turn on to help him to leave dents room. it seems inevitable the new security regulations foust into law in the wake of the events on capitol hill the original day parade was made law to legitimize the

so-called war on terror well the patriot act you know focus on domestic terror and how will the u.s. and change the e.u. once. in the stories that shaped the week on r.t. the us house of representatives impeach president trump for an unprecedented 2nd time while many on the floor can't wait to see the back of others say it's more about revenge than just this. rush approves clinical trials of unexpressed vaccine sport nicol like today mr meek rising global demand. grim footage from a german crematorium is the extent of a resurgent pandemic in europe as berlin is a q.