hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle defenders of big tech often exclaimed if you don't like their platforms then build your own well on this edition of crossfire we talk with some intrepid individuals doing just that against all the odds will they succeed. to discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guest we camp in washington he is host of redacted tonight on r.t. america as well as author of bullet points and punch lines in cleveland we have taylor who doc she is

a journalist and activist for pre speech and free press and in moscow we have susie dawson she is co-founder of paying quake dot com all right hostile girls in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok we're going to taylor person in cleveland a lot is going on online right now we had right up to before the american election we had a sensually big tech colluding to crush a story that could influence the outcome of the election then we have after the election we have the events of january 6th in washington and a drums banned from most platforms and then we had another platform parlor that was gone and it seems like it's kind of crawling back and taylor what is the state of goa or what's going on right now because later in the program going to talk about a new platform that's coming up and it's kind of for me it's kind of like weekly leaks came into being because journalists wouldn't do their job media wouldn't do their jobs so. others are thinking about challenging be big tech because they're

not keeping the promise of a fair playing field where everyone would be able to participate in all voices would be valiant so where do we stand right now because from what i can see it's pretty dark go ahead. yes all of this really kicked off when we saw president trump removed from twitter and i want to make note that this is a huge disservice to the american people and to the public because we do have a right to access public officials and elected leaders and by removing president charm from twitter jack dorsey effectively removed at ability to communicate with the president just to i'm tuesday in fact president trump issued his last round of pardons unfortunately join a sergeant edward snowden were not among that list of pardons and if trumper on twitter perhaps he could have seen the massive call for a science to be pardoned but back to these platforms they are communication tools and communication methods that our politicians do use and we need to have access to

that to speak with them now jack dorsey also responded to his decision to ban the president and said that offline harm as a result of online speech is demonstrably real now that is somewhat problematic because it's a very broad statement that can be applied to just about anything in any speech and it also assumes a causal relationship between online speech in real world violence and we've seen a rapid decrease in twitter followings and we have further evidence that this is just beyond trump because in a race phone call jack dorsey in fact said that they will be removing more accounts about 70000 they said they will remove it this will go on extends beyond the inauguration and the great purge here you know if you know it seems to me that platforms like twitter and facebook and and google what they're doing they're doing is they're substituting their terms of service for the constitution of the united states i mean. they make they're above the law because they interpret it and then

they will discard what they don't like i mean this is the public square i mean as i said in my introduction if you don't like it you don't build your own well there are monopolies and they make it very difficult for people to build their own ok and they're in there and they're very devious about it too so if they went from having a great cause to just caring about the bottom line and power headley. well yeah a lot of people point out you know the terms of service and of these are private companies but in fact we now live in a nation in to some degree a world that is owned by corporations so the idea that these are somehow separate from the u.s. government is is kind of laughable the like you said this is the public square now we should have the ability to communicate without worrying that because we your are saying something that goes against the corporate talking points that are allowed on mainstream media we won't be banned from those platforms now i know i have this

crazy hot take that i believe that it is ok to ban people who have jailed jump hands of thousands of innocent civilians so that would include trump or hillary are you know a variety of other 5 is obama. but that's not why they're doing it if that's why they were doing it and i might feel differently they're doing it because statements that go against what is considered allowable in our like i said corporate media and they've heard what 70000 they say they claim she went on followers which look being wrong or in correct is not a reason to take someone off a platform i have many important and interesting conversations with people i disagree with and it will instead they are filtering us all into our tiny little bubbles of allowable thoughts and it is not just that just service it takes us towards it just so you know well you should read you can for being stupid ok now that's very cruel and i just can't let this pass me i'm here for war you'll never

get banned ok that is. exactly what it will get a blood check if you're bored or you know susie you're really being because of the new law or i'm thank you why are you doing this i mean there's these huge giants out there and it will be very difficult because they're censoring and control. the public spirit you believe to get to know who you are why take on this job going to . come to this absolutely necessary 1st and foremost before deciding so i'm quite dot com i start to a number of social media uses across a broad 'd spectrum of different generations and different types of people different backgrounds different experience and to her capabilities from a technical perspective and i was amazed to discover that all of them had very advanced awareness and understanding of the ways that they have being manipulated

and abused really by the big giants the ways that they are being tracked outside of their browser pages the ways that their relationships and communications are being met in commission allies and on so to big data companies to cooperations so governments and sometimes to even to security agencies and those uses talk to me about their feelings about the impacts on their personal lives and on their relationships and their feeling manipulated they are feeling like they have a total loss of control feeling like their relationships and the real world was being directly impacted and if it by the sense of an online sphere people spoke to me about their relationships and. being materially damaged i had and some people talking about how their friends had they not sit with them because they were no longer interacting with

a continent of course they weren't seeing their friends counted which is why they were no longer interacting with. human relationships friends things and unfortunately the manipulation of what constantly say is actually impacting the way that we feel about each other it's impacting who we relate to who we communicate with and then that has real will to fix you just mentioned about war and how. you weren't me since and for supporting war war is the ultimate manifestation of real world violence and so. for war online is the ultimate example of correction really well how but i can tell you that online since the tech some companies are engaging it is itself results and real world across the poet. taylor what would be essentially what they're doing is they're deciding who can produce a bagan line i mean it's extraordinary i mean not only can neatly shut your voice

but apparently no you can lose your bank account you can't fly me out of this is this is the whole process of giving people you disagree with the scarlet letter and we're going to have to live with him for the rest of their lives they're banning people from produce a patient in society. exactly what we're seeing is twitter facebook and these other big tech platforms essentially acting also as publishers as section $230.00 of the communications decency act which was established in 1906 this was still during the early years of the wise for use of the internet it stated that i s p s and other content providers cannot be treated as a publisher and therefore are not held responsible or accountable for 3rd party content it also ensures that no individual or person or platform specifically can be responsible for the speech of another individual this also impacts bloggers as well hell ever there is this good samaritan provision which it does allow for these

private companies to moderate content they can block and screen offensive content or harassment or anything that could be deemed even obscene and this is usually laid out in the terms of service of course we all agree to this and also in section $230.00 they cannot be held liable for taking any action in good faith to remove harmful contents of the problem. including yes so that's the problem here is that dorothy is up to her though they are removing content and removing users who are going against the accepted narratives and that is the problem here it's being abused however i also want to make note that the movement to repeal section 230 is a very bad mistake because while there is this protection and this being abused by these platforms in these tech giants it's also important to know that if this were to be repealed it's likely that these i s p's in these different tech companies are

going to censor content even more and probably not allow even 3rd party content to be on these different platforms because it is unfeasible bowl and feasible to actually moderate all of his contacts they could be held legally responsible if there's a. a lot of different opinions about that they'd like that to 30 cut out because it saves them an enormous amount of money and makes them completely irresponsible and they will never be held to account and they get to pick and choose winners ok. i've heard plenty of arguments about amending it and that's where i stand with it right now but leave it in this for me that it was so important here is that you know we have legal system a court system or people you adjudicate grievances here but what why should i accept and i do not accept the ideological outlook of someone like jack dorsey or people over at facebook i mean they're superseding what is called right in wrong

when we have a legal system we have a religion we haven't customs to adjudicate that and this is being all cut up with and then you need to have no recourse go ahead. yeah there really is no recourse and you know. the fact that they can bait you from these platforms it's not just like oh so why would someone you know doesn't have their twitter anymore so a lot of people's spend a lot years building these things up it's like building a restaurant and then someone just all those is it inside is there's no recourse it really is just drawings careers destroys lives as soon as he was talking about and the platforms are they have an incredible amount of control and that is you're saying they're deciding what is right or wrong what's allowed to be said they'd even admit such besides just opinion there or there deleting things that are just news coverage literally journalists trying to do independent journalism just the

other day a reporter was trying to cover a gun rally not saying she was for or against gun control just saying this is happening and literally that it's heard from you tube because you can announce that the outside world except for certain topics i covered the back of a doctor went in front of the senate where and after that more break we'll continue our discussion with the interns they. join me everything on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to a guest of the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see of.

if you take 2 good clocks of these one this is my grandfather was just got particularly good pretty good what would make one a little bit higher wait a little bit. and then come back and look at them then locks they don't indicate the same time because there's more kind up here that time down there. welcome back across not where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle remind you we're talking about the state a big check. ok let's go back to suzy here in moscow ok let's let that tell us a little bit more about pay and wait because how is it going to be different in the platforms that we're experiencing right now because of the kind of echo some of the things that you said when you 1st enter question is that all i hear is people

complaining about how. the the hope of these of these bottoms have been dash to ok people are very very frustrated and it's creating this a sense of anxiety you know will you be thrown off too and if you're strong enough why and you'll never know why you know i have a very extensive online existence and every day i'm waiting for something to happen because you know. i do hold very strong views and i'm willing to fight for those views virtually of course so what is your plan to how it's going to be different than the ones we have now. i think the pan quite dark on deaf as from conventional to products and almost every conceivable way from nor advertising. turning the years that enter our customer and building our entire product designing our product around and they all our customer died. as opposed to big kick

consider the customer used to be the product which they sell to the real customer which is cooperations advertises government security agencies so this and foremost the user for us becomes the customer and our whole world is built around serving that everything from no cookies on a website no tracking no collecting user information you can create a pen quite dot com user account without submitting an e-mail address or a telephone number we do not cash any mission not what is code in the quote a clients have a model which means they use the data goes from the device straight to the block china we are not an intermediary we do not store any of that information being a block chain product makes us incredibly transparent because every years a has a copy of the chain which becomes a public record of the public information posted by the user their content straight

into the blood chain we will obviously be moderating on that we're not going to allow the child pornography is to use and the web however when we moderate content on and every user on the net where can say on what at what time what use what mucilage was moderated by us and for what reason it was not our i said which is just an amazing new world of transparency by comparison to twitter or facebook who i'm moderating millions of messages without providing any real transparency around those moderation practices. with solving for tain major issues with current platforms way i'm not shutter banning accounts we are not jailing people and what julian assange has called the filter of someone with information coming into you from your friends and followers as being. late or manipulation. by

the platform and the information that you send out. with us is not being manipulative. i mean you know i suppose and donald trump was norm was online we would he be welcomed on your lot or. i'm a member of the public are sincere is our platform mayor is our platform and provided that they are not engaged in an act of lawbreaking they will not be moderates in our platform taylor is one of the things that really irritates me and you know i know the politics politics i know susie's politics they know my politics here but i bet you all of us together relatively easy to determine what should not be put on line i think that's common sense more or less dictates what that would be ok obviously child pornography not. inciting violence when there is a it's a real impending where who the it's possible. to simple things like that and i think we in the it is relatively straightforward and political speech well you know

the political speech if you don't like it you should counter it with more political speech see what i don't like about these big forms is they a horrid debate they just want consensus and the consensus is what they think i mean when i listen to dorsey and zuckerberg in front of congress i mean they're no moral support of superiors to me ok i don't i don't know what where they get off and being you know they they're the mandarins of the universe i mean they're not i mean jack dorsey is a an absolute fool because people are fleeing his platform right now and that and you know i have to wonder you know just got to get down to the dollars and cents of it how many angry phone calls he's getting from his shareholders because he's been he's breaking is the the spirit of what we're supposed to be doing online right now and he's in charge of you know enid's to go and we need a serious rethink and and how would

a decent conversation like we're having on here we have very deep strong different political point of views here. well what is acceptable speech should not be determined by jack dorsey mark zuckerberg or the staff at facebook and twitter and unfortunately that's precisely what is happening right now and there's a separate conversation to have in regards to illegal content that's completely different and censoring information that they do not like one of the things i found very disturbing this past year was mark zuckerberg openly admitting to interfering in the election in the united states and he does so by working with a publisher he was working with reuters as well as the f.b.i. in the intelligence community to prevent election interference but that is actually election interference because they change their policies and their behavior and they were restricting content a week prior to the election taking place and that is in fact censorship and this

is really problematic that big tank is working with the establishment and i would say probably the establishment democrats in particular as well as the intelligence community it's also a massive insult to the public because it suggests that the public does not have the ability to determine what is real and what is fake and again it is not the job of a state or a private company to be making these decisions and you know you know one of the things that you know i find really interesting is that if you go back to the founding of the united states. when the constitution was being written and the founders. i guess are not of the most popular figures obviously but the left here i mean what they said to each other about each other in newspapers i mean it was absolutely substantial is ok and but the public was able to figure it out ok and they respected the public and taylor is absolutely right when these big tech

companies they sneer at the publicly sneer at them ok i mean you know canning the hunter biden story i mean. that is such an insult in the democratic process as well i mean look you know let let the chips fall where they may ok they shouldn't be having an editorial decision about it ok and and the the lack of real reaction to that it's about censoring a best story i found really astounding and really terrifies me about the future in which if things do not change go ahead lee well yeah i mean if you think about the time of the founding fathers of the united states the way of communicating those newspapers are fluids and if there were pamphlets and if you could be jailed for handing out a certain kind of pamphlet there would be no united states which is basically what we're getting out you know at least people can't hand out the digital employed said they want to do want to give out their opinions and that you know something else i think we need to discuss has is is why we've gotten to this point it's because our

ruling elite realize how dangerous it is for people to actually be able to speak to each other it has created large scale change on a relative short period of time it helped create occupy and block lives matter and the bernie sanders movement and even trance movement so they realized they needed to get it back in the box where they are in control the corporate powers of corporate elites are in control of the message and they have worked very hard to do that we're seeing yes banning nowadays but because this shadow banning this suppression you know the number of you is that my videos can get is a tiny fraction of what it used to be so this has been going on or a years you know but is yeah but it's got much more extreme recently now as well you know ali all i can say is that they they want this control and they wanted to milk the more stringent because they are completely incompetent ok they run the country into the ground and run a good part of the world into the ground ok and they want to maintain that how ok

you know susie that's one of the things that i'm really frustrating is that there's . about all these ideals about you know capitalism in the free market a lot of these people these this is cherami tyranny in trolling the economy controlling people's lives controlling people's choices ok and the worst of all is that they completely they can't completely disappear you i mean that's when it branched into one your citizenship in money in your aunt gately and i don't want to get political here because we've been wrong nice to you each other here but that's primarily coming from the left right now and i mean that really disturbing and we need to push back conservatives. need to push about i'm sorry go ahead liberals are the last. baby great. liberals are not allowed. any conservative is not the g.o.p. . i think the entire political spectrum needs to be represented for it to be

a level playing field i think it's critically important and even formative experience particularly for your so you have access to different types of information from different perspectives to be able to talk with people with different opinions and backgrounds i remember when i was in school we went they are different types and maybe of. course very conscious thing opinions to study i strongly doubt that's happening these days are i would think that type of media studies were equipping consented threatening to the assessment as well but it's important for giving people the ability to develop critical thinking skills they must have access to information outside of a narrower siler such as they created for them by the big companies right now and i think that we're just saying more than in take out of supremacy in the online space from the big tech companies and we're saying more than a decade of incredible turmoil and to stabilize action as

a result and when i think back to the parents when it was much more free and the ninety's and the. we didn't have the type of social thing stabilization that we haven't experienced since they used to companies are taking control i think that it's time to go back to the future the ensign and online conversation started out as being pierce appear before there was a way of before there was any of these big tech companies years and connected to uses and exchanged information with other users there was no end so maybe you would see in about 10 seconds how can they find out more about your platform and quake adult company a n.q. your. home all right that's all the time we have only think my guess and washington cleveland and miles going to take our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time remember across something else. thank you.

thank. you. taste awful. first then a 2nd wave is coming now the virus is mutating and walk 2 blocks away from the apartment and i would get confused as to colleague it's not. meanwhile patients who've recovered from covert started to report some unusual aftereffects the symptoms were different but. my hearing has been ok i think. one of the things are at play research is all over the world are trying to determine the many pains and other problems and then turn it into numbers showing my hair. the 1113 there this is throughout the day my hair just. various sources reports that didn't just leave for 35 percent of recovered patients. so.

the push. ups there have been many complaints of feral vision loss joint pain and fatigue in the us these patients are referred to as post coded long holos i talk to multiple doctors and my doctor and they said we have a feeling that you're going to have a hard time in recovery you're going to be one of those people that they consider a long haul or. 3rd administration down the shaft for going on 12 years anyway you know a big zaman $22026.00 team was de dollars they should. now it's all coming to.

some rumors as soon as i'm. going to be known chris mccomb. among those who just can't stand for whatever they think i did hear that oh. i'm talking is a very international community. meeting yesterday if you could. just get the kids to keep is this stuff that i need to eat. there's a position at the with respect to the business for their new coffee. is everything because he was deluded live in front of t.v. with the above the. 5 i have i would have acted all day but i decided not to take his place. with my gig and tell you that.

pfizer cuts the liberties of its covert vaccine in europe and north america are off the production the latest problem threats of legal action from italy and poland. just talks with russia to start its own production of the sport make the vaccine we hear from around serbian film director about his thoughts on the job. russian joke will be in the future since it's going to new ration of production of the russian side is going to be much more spread that you believe before it started to. president michel promises for.