don't like. talking. welcome to visionaries me sophie shevardnadze. at that time the most unknown of all unknown thanks doug about its mystery i'm joined by professor got a little vanity fair article physicist and bestselling author.

professor carlota of a least theoretical physicist and bestselling author it's great to have you with us today welcome to our show thank you very much for having me all right so let's start with something blunt you say there is no time in the sense of the term and correct me if i'm wrong and that time exists only in the i would be holder and depends on what that i wear the beholder what they're looking at but we do feel and experience the passing of time or the sense of something being after something and here i am white and i don't know grabbing a phone for instance right and putting it down when it was in my hand now it isn't isn't that time. yes that is time and of course there is time there is time for us we wake up in the morning we go to sleep time passes we become older that's real what well when i say there is no

time what i mean is that there is no time in need sure by itself in the fundamental level let me make an example. if i see. the sun does not move or. it still does not move it does not mean that there is no sunset anymore we still see the sun going up and going down and going up and going down. but we understand that it's not really the sun which is moving it's a complicated story between us and the sun we're sitting on a big rock which is spinning so from our perspective we see the sun moving still the movement of the sun that we see is real but is not part just of the sun alone and the same is about time time it's a more complicated story that what we usually think that's what 26 has shown that time is different than what we usually think so the time of our everyday life

is not really in nature nature the kind of know it was more complicated. let me give you an example. suppose your clock. or watch. gives time and we all know that the the property of clocks is as a measure time for there is the same time for all of them if i look at them and they have the same time and i look again they're the same in time well actually if you measure precisely that's not too. good clocks. this is my grandfather watch is not particularly good but if you do good works we make one a little bit higher wait a little bit. and then come back and we look at them they're not they don't indicate the same time because there's more time up here the time there and this can be measured today in the in the laboratory so time is different that what we think the time of usually mage nation is full says an approximation is like the

setting of the sun. great but. we're actually going to come back to this experiment a bit later but before we get deep into the more scientific aspects of what your notion of time is i just want to you know get it right for us plain humans because for me the biggest proof that time exists will at least the way we feel it is in our bodies aging and mass eventually dying i mean we're part of the nature right we're part of the bigger picture as well i believe that lake i'm part of a something huge and that huge is part of something that is me. would you deny that time in that sense exists also for me in though that i'm part of that huge nature thing that you're talking about but time is very i don't there i don't make is and i don't and i don't i think you said it very correctly time it is for us we age.

is more than that we remember the past are right and we think about the future and we know we are mortal so we have all this story now ahead about or a life that the past the present the future this is all real but the guards us that's not the way a star leaves a star does not remember the past does not expect about the future so we are part of nature and we experience things which depend on our own natural properties and not universal let make another example that's the up to their action right and that's a down direction is that forced of course is it's true i mean that's up and that's none and things fall talwar down but i'm in canada you're in georgia when i point out that if you point up your pointing in a different direction so which one is

a true up it looks the same but in reality we are pointing in different directions because the earth is round of course so we point in different directions so which one is a true up which is all true up is up to me and up to you if we if your brother was floating and astronauts outside the earth that. doesn't mean anything because for him all directions are the same there's no up so there's no up in the universe the universe doesn't have an app there action in a down direction but there isn't up to me in one direction as in up for you in another direction in the same time there is no global time in the universe the unit doesn't have a time but we. creatures that are only vironment in these heat then there is a long story around experience. which is our own time and if you look very very carefully we see the differences even from a time a different altitude can i ask you something so why does time if it doesn't exist

at the mcchrystal topic state of things right have a direction i mean why is it never pointed backwards. and though this is a great question. it came as a surprise in the development of physics. slowly. that time is different than that than our usual way of thinking so this is they said that time goes at a different speed. it was understood about a 100 years ago in fact iceland is the 1st one did that and he 1st got to this idea theoretically sort of try to match since we know about nature but now we measure in the laboratory so it's not an idea by our standards something we do something to that we can measure but even before that a brick surprise was that the laws of physics do not distinguish the past or the

future and that's so strange because for ask the past is completely different for the future ride buses 6 it cannot change it i was born the someday they cannot change it there was a russian revolution in the beginning. and that's it the future seems open so they seem completely different stories but says it does not distinguish the past from the future so there was a a lot of discussion of what it this means and it turned out that the difference between the past and the future only can comes about when we don't look at all the details that what we do all the time because we don't see the individual atom moving then. the big story all things move in in one direction and this is what the physicist called it the growth of entropy this is a name for for this

a difference between the past and the future that we use in physics is hard to conceive of because we think in terms of past and future but once again it's because we are. very big being scum paid to do the atoms of the molecules the you see the new nolen film i mean would you is it possible theoretically whatever is going on in there. lowell took this idea of answer be. yes let and he took the idea which is. the basis of an idea correct which in principle it could be possible to move toward the past and toward the future by by by playing with entropy by changing their arrangement of the molecules in principle is true but then of course he made a movie. which is absurd that because we cannot arrange the molecules in the way so it's a bit of sort of hollywood stuff is just

a lot of fantasy in the movie and i found it a little bit confusing and complicated the beauty of the problem of time but what fascinates also all of us about time is that there is all this complexity there is there is some time aspect of time which is in the mechanical things in the temporal in a mix of things namely when you have many many other times moving in our brain and even in our psychology i would say because you you started and i think that was very good you said we time for us is our growing older and you know time for us is also what takes away everything we have right we know that we're going to lose everything we do we are today we're going to die all the people we love will not be going to be there we are going to be there so there is a sort of anxiety and at the same time time is also what brings us thing so we have a very emotional connection of by the way we are we're wired in our in our brain is that we attach to good grasp something in in the future and the future of losing

something in the past when you say time and that's what we mean to a large extent so. a physicist i'm a physicist i do science but a physicist make a mistake makes a mistake if you think that ok i don't want to think about psychology just look at the motion of things and then you don't see anymore what time is for us time for us is a lot. this emotional. i

think this is our 3rd ministration we've been down the shaft for going on 12 years anyway you know a big steaming 202026 team was de dollars they should dig a little as a show and now it's all coming to. right now all the. people who are overweight or obese it's profitable to self. and sugary and salty and the big it's not at the individual

level it's not individual willpower and if we go on believing that never change this obesity epidemic that industry has been influencing very deeply the medical and scientific establishment. what's driving the obesity epidemic it's corporate profit. and we're back talking about the notion of time is it an illusion or does it truly exist talking with professor god loto valley theoretical physicist and bestselling author professor eve time also is mostly human perspective because emotion is a very human lee thing grade or even a delusion in some sense. how come physicists like yourself use it to find

out what exactly happened during the big bang i don't know i'd always like sasin aided me when i read about how the story that appeared on the 2nd or 3rd nanosecond after the big bang is all that also a delusion. well it also fascinates me it's a big part of my job to try. to figure out what happened near the big bang and that's part of my daily daily work to to sort of contribute to the study of what happens when we study the big bang right was this long ago what does it mean i mean we say the big bang was what certain 14000000000 years ago well it means that if you take all the clocks and we go back in time they're different but only average if you go back 40000000000 years that's a big bag in then we get confused precisely because of the big bang or.

it was so hot so compress there when a quantum situation is a very different physics than the one we're used to the deep in a quantum gravity gene that even the physicists notion of time is a good anymore we have to change a little bit we're not we don't we haven't figured out exactly what happened at the beginning perhaps there was no time at all there started time so all these are trying to write equations. that tell us what happens and compare with observations of the sky and come up with a good story and one of the difficulty is precisely what you said that the usual notion of time even the physical one the one in them actually shown in the newton equation that when one studies at school when one study physics you know a pendulum moves in time even that notion of time is not good any more of the big

bang so that's really the good a physics it forces us to rethink our basic notions sometimes in a completely clear way we have understood right it's a copernicus tell us we're not still moving and so on and so forth sometimes like today we're over the border of what we know and even the notion that we use are not clear so not everything is clear about what exactly happened with time of the big bang is a topic of discussion. but can i ask you something said previously that you know that the time never goes backwards it's always goes forward right so time's an arrow which is moving forward do we remain static in reality because there is no time really or or are we moving along with it. no i don't think we remain static. and it's not that easy when when i say i will if you say sometimes there is no time. people try to imagine or write so the universe is

just a block down there nothing happens. but that's a wrong imagination because if nothing happens what you're really thinking is that there is a rock there in time passes and the rock doesn't change. so nothing happens it's a way of thinking time passes but nothing changes and the correct imagination is the opposite universes change you know as is happening a lot of things happening in the universe just imagine or just a many many happenings but they're not all do it in a common time they're sort of disorder it or it's our. our way of organizing them a lot to memory and 20 anticipation that we read the rule of happening of the universe as a single sequence of things happening that's

a mistake but there's no. there's no. you see when i say the sun doesn't move. right so we learned at school i mean the more. we see the sun going up and down up and down every day and then we are kids who go to school and the teacher or father or mother tell us you know it's an illusion the sun doesn't move but this does not mean that the sun in the sky walks and is not going to move if you keep going around is this is not the sun is going to move is just more complicated story. i wanted to also use the example of music if i may it's a thing that doesn't really exist but only does because it is happening in time rather instruments played together in a rhythm or a pulse that brings time alive and we only feel something when music changes in time and non-changing becomes a drone and stops having meaning like you know my refrigerator making a noise so if an elementary physics lab will time doesn't matter or doesn't exist

why does it matter on a non elementary lab or on a level of music for instance does this music essentially create tom. this is a great question and in fact you know in the history of thinking about time music plays played a huge role suppose you hearing music ok in a song and in some moment right now you're hearing one note not not the full song and then in the next moment you're hearing one so you're never hearing the song you only hear one note at a time in every moment you hear one note so why do you react to the to the song ok there is never a song up there in the in nature at every moment there is only one nor to turn i mean this was before harmony just. it was just melodic ok so what is the answer

the answer it's if you think for a moment it's obvious you know when you hear a note you bream's through. the members the previous notes right so what you hearing and using of the melody just think of your preferred melody in a moment you hear a sound but you at the same time remember the previous one so if you think of the time the militant cells is really a memory stuff there is in your memory that stayed together out there there is one not at the time and this sure the loss of our. our. feeling and perception of temporality is connected to the fact that we remember and in a sense if you want in let me put it in some way a stone or a cannot hear music. because he doesn't have memory to hear to hear music you need a memory and memory brain or

a computer that has memory not not the brain because we are spiritual beings different from the rest of nature i think that we are just pieces of nature like everything else but we are very cool or pieces of nature with a lot of wiring. and stuff it is this peculiarity that allows music to exist. in a very precise since music. can only exist because we have this brain which remembers and is all not only that because when you hear music. i think everybody knows those music you hear a piece of a melody and your brain anticipate what would come next and music's all of that the music is coming in part it comes what you expect ok the next note you know what it is so you're happy that you get it any imparted to prise you because it comes something it's all just game of surprising and satisfaction which makes music so music it's. in some sense this does not mean that

there aren't you know sound waves moving around that's all true that's all real but what we call music and it's all to me with all that. so interesting. so you can say your experiment you just showed me with your watches yes. i mean the whole thing really just blows my mind because i mean i see time as something universal right like a minute is the same here in georgia as it is i don't know somewhere in new delhi 9 hours on the plane to new york would be the same 9 hours here on earth if there is difference in the speed of time why don't we feel it i mean how far a bar do i have to climb to feel the difference and when my subjective perception you talk about memory but i feel like perception is also a big thing that actually distinguishes time will my subjective perception of time

even allow me to feel it even if i'm high enough. yes so let me answer both questions 1st 1st to the 2nd one and then 1st what would your subjective perception matched as yes absolutely. there is. there's some movies interstellar for instance in which the hero. has. goes near a very heavy things and so time slows down a lot for him so when he comes back for him. a few days are passed and when he comes back years past and in fact at the end of the movie he comes back to earth and finds his little daughter. who has become an old lady so the main character is still a man in his middle age and his little daughter now has become an old lady so the subjective. perception of time has been completely different for the 2 so

absolutely certain of that this is solid physics since when is that now you ask well wait a moment why don't you perceive that i mean as you say a minute for use a minute for me in a minute. well the reason is because as longer to stay on earth so ga can and daily go to the mountain the. highest of these differences extremely small and in fact in my when i teach physics i gave to my students sometimes the exercise will compute what is a difference of time your brother go up to live in the mountain the highest. village you can imagine and then it comes down after 50 years and what is the difference of time is always a computer the difference is just a fraction of a 2nd so too small for our. to get it but if you have instrument you can measure it and we do measure each and the spectacular thing is

even today we can measure it not just the mountains but even 20 centimeters higher 20 centimeters long we can see that this clock goes faster and this clock is slower and when you know the g.p.s. the little thing we use you know driving the car that locates us it was through some satellite and when the satellites were put up there at the beginning was americans in the seventy's and then it was done you know by the russians the chinese the indians now we have many systems like that when americans put the 1st satellites up there this is told engineering careful because up there times goes faster and since there is a clock in the in the satellite because essentially what happens is you know. a satellite was a clock and it beams down the time and then you're little machine uses that to locate yourself and this is still very careful because time there goes a goes faster. they nearly got to the system but that wasn't the hand of the

military in some general in the american military said oh come on this is silly time goes faster than i believe that so the beginning the 1st satellites and it experimental one would put that they had to use then to switch they could keep this into account or not and it doesn't work if you don't keep this into account so technologically today your when you drive a car and you have the g.p.s. system that tells you which where you're going the system works in a way that keeps into account the fact that up there time goes faster so it's part of about technology today really fascinating a present i wish i had another 3 hours to talk to the notion of time but it's been really interesting to at least have a little bit into the notion of the perception of time and what is it doesn't exist

is an illusion thank you very much for this wonderful insight and i was shown the best of luck and i hope we get to do this again soon thank you i hope so as well and thank you for your oppressions we should very much on the point and this is a fascinating topic and i hope to talk to you again definitely thanks a lot to be safe. i.

i wouldn't support sort of the banning of trauma per se i think long before we reached this point there should have been enough and there should have been a set of guidelines and rules. technology platforms followed around specific kinds of cases by which people might be maybe even not the platforms into steps they're on the way to their view they are stealing information that is going viral that is obviously false and or heat fall. by these

algorithms that are influencing the visibility of content that is heat fall and. in those cases we need to intervene. if there's a big pick up in exclaiming if you don't like their platforms think bill joel well on this edition of crossfire we talk with some intrepid individuals doing just that against god's will they succeed. become a battleground in the u.s. government people are demanding the shutdown of a local plant. right now my focus stake. it's a very dangerous. power plant the owner is attempting to run the reactor beyond its operational limit this case just sort of puts a magnifying glass on where's the power in this country where's it going is it

moving more towards corporate interests or is it more in the idea of a traditional participatory democracy is or powerline with the people this case demonstrates that struggle in the very real ways our struggle. cuts the liberties of its covert vaccine in europe and north america off the production of the threats of legal action from italy. just talks with russia production of the spokesman for the vaccine we hear from the serbian film director about his thoughts on the. russian drug will be in the future since it's going to do a should move production over good russian scientists it is going to be much more spread do you believe. the. president

promised his friend shootings will be able to return to university.