cision to suspend his accounts somewhat problematic why is that yeah i wouldn't quite say that i support sort of the banning of trump per se i think that long before we reach this point there should have been enough there should have been a set of guidelines and rules then every big technology platform followed around specific kinds of cases by which people might be maybe if not deep platforms take into steps they're on the way to there and that is not what happens and i think those cases and just a kind of weird out should be for folks for individuals who have huge viral it meaning what they say what they share can go very viral it's for those kinds of individuals if they are stating information that is going viral that is obviously false and or heat fall it is by these algorithms that are influencing the visibility of content that is heat fall and

viral in those cases we need to intervene in the very process a and i'm sure you know better than i do that obviously false and hateful and very very subjected to finish as in this day and age and i speak to you from russia i have covered a number of wars and hurricane leftwards before and i can tell you that you know. there is almost never an agreement on what is good and what is bad when it comes to your highly politically sensitive issue is why are you comfortable with all your criticism of the big tech companies and we will go into more details later but with all your criticism of the big tech companies why you're comfortable giving them this right to decide what's good and what's bad what's right and what's wrong oh no no no that's actually the complete opposite of what i'm saying i think we need 3rd party regulatory systems in place i mean of course in the big if the tech companies

themselves who are going to make decisions and disclose them to the public and we can all be on the same page and we can trust them and will do the right thing then so be it i mean that would obviously be ideal to be more collaborative and co-operative i don't believe in inherently trying to be imposition all however to the earlier point you need a. president trying to use twitter and other mechanisms as loughlin mechanisms as well to incite a riot that took over the capitol building and killed multiple people ok and so sir it's these kinds of conditions that we have to be extremely careful about and that's not just anybody i'm all for the unit being supporting free speech that is the foundation of our country actually just one sect it's also the commission of the country and the best parts of the country and it's the foundation of the internet its content that directly leads to violence that is likely to go viral which are clearly is where we need since you're but professor you know that the

united states has a pretty solid legal system this is one thing that many countries out of me and your definition of hate speech is also. very well tested and there have been legal precedents before and i think if you actually study those legal precedents i'm absolutely sure i mean like oh pretty confident at least that. comments could not be qualified as hate speech and that's that's that and that would be a decision harts up to him in legal means don't you think that it's a big dangerous substituting the law with twitter's own guidelines let them see you trying to lead them find him liable for what he did and then proceed wouldn't that be a better course you know my put my point really is is is that in cases where the content is likely to go viral and i understand he speech is an interpretive act in any way

be a 3rd party these are private corporate platforms they're not governments they don't have to necessarily completely follow these free speech guidelines because of section $230.00 which is part of the nature of the communications decency i just want everybody to understand this it basically allows these tech companies to not be liable for content that might be hateful or or false and i don't have an issue with that necessarily i just think in certain cases we're content is going to have real world effects that lead to violence we need to have some sort of system of governance or collaboration that's what i'm getting at but i think a much larger point which we agree on is that you know you can't just you can't just accept that private companies are just going to magically do the right thing i think what we're talking about are private companies and their decisions that are now when we look at their ratings and the profits other half are they get i think

it's it's pretty clear that trump and the media have benefited lastly from one another this actually because as you often talk about that and your interview as many media business models based on precisely on amplifying the conflict what i don't understand is how taking somebody off especially somebody with such a huge following not. in the united states but around the world how is that going to solve or even reduce the problem and yeah i mean i don't think that i don't think our long term solution to these issues are about the platforming or censoring i'm not we're not actually in much disagreement on this i think the much larger issue is that we have a parasitic system a system that is very dysfunctional for democracy or the health of any society anywhere including in russia and that system is one and this is not just social media this is also our television networks as well there is a relationship between. you know whoever can get people kind of going crazy in

their mind get their attention it's all you have already received yes absolutely but and if x. is noam chomsky's authorship a manufacturing consensus which basically makes the argument now our media networks are governed by corporate private agendas so my point is that my point isn't the isn't to negate that existence but to realize that there has to be a public private balance in every system and mediation or one thing suffers versus the other professor when you agree with everything he says that this is essentially a parasitic system that. uses. the public for its own commercial interest and perhaps even ideological interest and to get you support you know cases when it does it for its own purposes like when it's separate diplomat from somebody like donald trump because it feels you don't really write

wait he does you think that it makes the system even more parasitic i mean like it's it doesn't i dabble of the car my position is that there is a much larger parasitic system at play here and that is the system that we need to have some balance within it in a vacuum platforming trump this point i guess is is is the right thing to do i think that there should have been practices that were in place long before we reach this point and here's an opportunity here's the i'm going to tell you the optimistic vision around the us there's a huge opportunity i believe right now for us to get these things in a more balanced relationship so i don't you know it was pretty irrelevant at the point when trump was deep platforms i mean it was like the last few days of his presidency unfair there was a risk that equally symbiotic relationship between. twitter and trump that's and

the media more generally. now 2 you said that it's pretty much irrelevant because he is on his way out he is out there actually but there are lots and lots of people here not if they 74000000 in fact who have voted for him and. eve started communications are also started communications in the united states i found that we may agree that they will be for him not because of his great task admittedly grotesque style but probably because of some of the issues that he represents and let's be but you know honest in terms of political science here he has raised some of the issues that they at least have never at times before him dee dee industrialization of the economy the loss of jobs the ever growing monopoly of the big tech companies aren't you concerned that diplomat for it depart from him at this point of time will also silence those very very important things yes i mean you're right the resolution to the to the challenges that you're raising which i

completely agree with you around which led to the rise of president trump does not come from the part for a minute this point or another point that's just like you know like a little ants on an elephants or something like that it's not not the real issue and present it very effectively gave voice to people sense of alienation and in a classic new a fascist playbook he played the race card in combination with people's notions of economic and other forms of socially an issue because quite honestly you are correct. people aren't really needed because they're i mean look at this country right now the life expectancy is decreasing. the this generation in this country for the 1st time in history makes less than its parents and there are a lot of things we can do about it trump gave voice to that but his resolute his solution to that was to pass the biggest tax cut in the history of this country for billionaires. i worked directly and was honored to florence senator bernie sanders

there is a whole other vision in there and the one thing i'm very grateful about and i'm an optimist and progressive optimist is that we are seeing movement already on day one from president biden. resonates with some aspects of what our champion was about and i agree let me also ask you have about president biden because one thing that i was pretty surprised by is the softening of the tone bible trump and biden towards one another trying to wishing bin your administration all the success by then acknowledging that he received a very gracious and general letter by trump and what it suggests to me at least is that there may be some. efforts to reach out behind the scenes. because i think biden thousands and is that is that if they really want to bring together the country as they have promised trump could aid them in this regard and

i think jumble also understands that if he wants to stay politically active or politically alive he needs biden not to go after him with the you supported this unholy alliance of biden and drum for the sake of yet uniting the country and what do you then support reinstating the social media comes because he still has these immense influence within the. aggrieved parts of the country this illusion will never be to permanently form anyone including trump that's never the solution as far as the this sort of trump biden thing as we both know politics and soap opera. as far as some factions trump an ministration or maybe even trying consult having back channel conversations with president biden and his administration that's entirely possible but to me the resolution of the issues that led to trump. and are and based upon the experience of ilion

nation working people in this country those are issues that president biden must take extremely seriously and i believe he will be let's see what happens and i believe he will be because i think he recognizes that this is a different time in 2008 when president obama was elected people know better people know that you know promises by elites corporate elites liberal elites neo liberal elites. you know can often be hollow and you know as and so the real question for me is will try and do things that are actually needed to how to children to help people feel less alienated professor string of us and we have to take a very short break right now the people the back in just a few moments staging an.

elder forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for. i robot must obey the orders given all the human beings except where such orders to conflict with the 1st law show your identification or should be very careful about artificial intelligence. the point obviously is too great trust in the fia. conflicting very chummy with artificial intelligence where some of the themes of. the obama must protect its own existence which exist. right now there are. people who are overweight or obese it's

profitable to self. and sugary and salty and addictive it's not at the individual level it's not individual willpower and if we go on believing that would never change this obesity epidemic that industry has been influencing very deeply the medical and scientific establishment. so what's driving the obesity epidemic it's corporate profit. welcome back to worlds apart a bit but i mashed it in a bus and a professor of information studies at the university of california los angeles a professor you know openly called before for regulatory intervention and perhaps

even transformation of those big tech companies was the bast possible way to do that as far as your concern thank you for asking that question we have bipartisan agreement actually and for his own reasons president trump himself supported doing something an oversized outside of our there are many to last the way he is one of the very few high ranking officials who actually. guys that age. which is which is highly highly ironic given that his entire brand and in many ways his entire popularity and his hijacking of our journalistic system and his attacks on journalism were partly pre-condition based upon his social media presence right so you know the thing that's really remarkable right now look senate is we have bipartisan we have spent 70 percent of americans who support some sort of some forms of reform we have $47.00 i believe out of 50 state attorney general is looking at regulatory issues involving facebook with the trumps department of

justice was investigating antitrust issues and the federal trade commission and i as a as a registered democrat and a progressive have many many. folks in congress and their staff members contacting me about various bills that they have so what i think we need to do is is a couple there are 3 major planks to this we need to think about how economic livelihoods in this country are being affected as you pointed out very well with the so-called post industrial economy which is increasingly data and digitally oriented so we need to ensure that jobs and labor and economic issues are protected because it's incredibly unequal in our world today and in this country you know 3 people with equal and look at what happened during this pandemic all this money and he said that politics has only become sharper as the signal logical and that's what's happened you mentioned that you've been talking to people in power on this issue but what if they were here chances of any of these reforms being passed by

the new administration reaches cleanly supported by the big temper but it's not all the ideologically but also in terms of campaign contributions do you biden administration really has an outmoded base and to go against its corporate sponsors that's a really good question so i just want to just lay out the other 2 components just just side. what i was saying we have to think about economic issues we have to think about political to simper mission and the polarization issues we discussed earlier and we have to think about personal privacy issues as well ok so those are the 3 as you term light enters a station abscess in your building or you know you know question. i don't think they have any choice i don't think they're not there i don't i don't think so because i think that right now there is such a groundswell of attention and energy around these issues that i think some steps will be taken but this completely depends i'm who the advisors are in the federal

communications commission who just you know where the office of science and technology policy which was just named its top directors a couple of days ago where where where they stand i will say this because i can see this now publicly i was part of the bone in here of innovation policy committee who are the people on it. but they do know though that there was a common interest in our act so you always start with what you people say you in our meeting each other our 1st goal will always be to think about real collaboration can i trust you can you trust me when we start there we don't start by by demonizing her vilifying or illian being maybe that's a very naive californian like hippie progressive way of looking at it but you know there's a hammer you have everything and anything that's confusing people and corporations when it comes to campaign contributions that eats not the dollar trust professor

really thought about trust it's about going against very very powerful multi-trillion dollar financial issue yes and i think donald trump had you know even though like much bigger problems when he tried to challenge much similar interests do you think that the biden harris ticket is really up for that. cynthia and i very much i very much agree with you that the real power is in huge is entrenched you know multi-trillion dollar kind of corporations i don't think they issued a larger issue of corporate governance over all aspects of our lives are going to be resolved immediately or by the will power somehow of this administration magically this is a neo liberal system we live under the question is whether social movements whether organizations whether advocacy can move the needle you know we don't we don't we can't move from the status quo to say to some sort of

a deal like equal system but we have to kind of move things i mean this is the reformist perspective but it's a real reformist perspective i agree you can't just magically think that things are going to change through good will there are entrenched political interests and just give you one example that people don't realize for example mark zuckerberg people say that the shareholders of. facebook could choose to remove. a man is the surly supporting that that's actually impossible because of the dual class share structure zuckerberg has a different class an acquisition in facebook where he actually can't be removed he has total authority now professor if i hear him make me happy and me ask you a question that is very close to my heart as as a professor of information that is i'm sure you are fully aware aware of my channel's reputation in the united states and that's what i saw grateful to you for at appearing on my show but i think that reputation is driven by real

philosophical ontological differences big thing here liberal globalist world view and many tech companies happen to support that will be and the they also happen to be very very aggressive towards people or companies entities who do not support that that and it's not just about trying to jump is just the most vivid example but there are many. in many efforts you suppress channels like mine and many others who do not subscribe to the globalist agenda and you concerned that this term misinformation or dissent from nations that they buy that paris administration uses a lot of it in because their nations being applied very liberally pun intended here obviously. that term gets thrown around without be analytical rigor around what that means and i think that the be often in the room all was is that is that is the outsized power of private so-called liberal

interests over the over 99 percent of people especially around the world and definitely in the united states so you know you will have no disagreement from me on that all of us are compromised in some manner or another i you know and compromise demand we not like and like a lot not a political issue or something but i have a car that uses fossil fuel i have a facebook account i have what's right so you know we're all imbedded with in particular systems that are neoliberal so well for our team and you i see you as a legitimate journalist asking great questions i know other people on our team who are also very much like that and i'm open to having conversations you know does r t take money from the russian state which has which is problematic in many ways of course is the united states problematic and says that that's problematic but i'm at it as far as i'm concerned that's not me i'll turn into

a business model to you. there one that we discussed earlier amplifying the conflict there's a. there is there is there is i mean look at what happened with their with the sender's campaign we raise way more money than anyone else people are giving 20 bucks 10 bucks 17 but not all but we are talking about media and you cannot have a media with a global outreach. going to cover u.s. led war if you're not supported by the state because it's simply impossible to do that by corporate means you can't if you can a big profit driven but. i was joined by your colleague chris angelus on democracy now last week it's not it's not funded by the u.s. state department or the government and certainly not by big private corporations that it's very it's out of reach is also quite limited i'm not saying that there are no exceptions but i think in generally speaking you could be ugly to read that it's. in the in those are the 2 predominant business models for the media as far as

the international outreach is concerned if you want to do interviews on the let's say be as soon that's possible but if you want to go to libya and syria and see what the reader revolutions look like beer and let me tell you i mean they have events on capitol hill would look like a child a child's play compared to what happened in benghazi where people were hanged on lamp post and twitter wasn't suspending them back then so i guess. m. is actually in egypt 10 years ago reading about the arab spring and i wrote from 0 which is funded by the qatari state so my point again is that they're all war they're all sorts of their all was alliances that may not be pure or ideal and i'm and we're all in that world and all we can do is do the best we can to support the values we really but i guess what i want to ask is you mentioned before before that regard listen where we are in the world we are all using that infrastructure but most of those companies are privately owned and the u.s.

based and they have. an official ties to the american government assume for the sake of argument if you guys figure out how to regulate those big tech companies within the united states what about the rest of us how much they should be have. those platforms operate and what they consider to be appropriate. are inappropriate but the rest of do well and love that question thank you for asking it absolutely. like the state the russian state the state of sri lanka the state of the philippines the state of my own market where facebook has has created all sorts of problems for people in my big distorting reality which leads to violence and actual attacks against. you know and in many cases muslim minorities like it for example we saw it in my own mark. and we saw it in sri lanka right because facebook misrepresented the reality because they didn't know any better so the goal so any

form of mediation any network or social media system or technology system has to be kind of immediate it through the prism. of a state or a regulatory apparatus i mean i do applaud and i'm friends with some people who wrote the general data protection regulations for the european union you can't just trust a private tech company whose goal is to keep you on their stuff all the time who monitors you even if you never created in the account you monitors even if you're not online you know and where it's known in right there in moscow has made the point that these things are recording us even when their own airplane mode he's right he's right so like we can't be naive about this but you know this is we're going to have a health care point when these type of infrastructure will be considered with public goods. i wish especially because i the internet was you know i'm not saying it's the same thing that it is today but it was

initially obviously funded by united states taxpayers ironically enough kind of the arpanet and the cold war and all this nonsense right but like. it was it was set up that way but you know we have a real big problem in this country where all the costs get borne onto the 99 percent socialist and all the profits and now these days we're talking about valuation it's not even profits anymore who are doesn't make any money is not profitable worth hundreds of billions of dollars a great example this is what you need to verify because the greek minister of former greek parliamentarian caused the zombification of capital you know so yeah i mean this is this is a huge huge issue and challenge i completely. i want to share your optimism that they knew i'd ministration will privately address it i have my doubts but anyway we have to leave it there professor it's been great to talk to you add very much for sharing. that was so much time thank you thank you for having me today and

thank you for watching come to syria again next week a world apart. i. think . the world is driven by. those growth.

no dares thinks. we dare to ask. nuclear become a battleground in the u.s. in vermont people are demanding the shutdown of a local plant from my yankee is right now my focus because it's a very dangerous oh no claire power plant the owner is attempting to run the reactor beyond its operational limit this case just sort of puts a magnifying glass on where's the power in this country where's it going is it moving more towards corporate interests or is it more in the idea of a traditional participatory democracy is or powerline with the people this case demonstrates that struggle in very real ways our struggle. joined me every thursday on the alex sullivan show and i'll be speaking to get off

of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. in the stories you shake the way karen r.t. frustration mind some countries that opted for the codifies a jab at supply problems hit europe and north america some in the us having to travel to neighboring states just to get to know you like to the modern mass vaccination campaign kicks off in russia but it's been a big jab at an increasing number of other countries also what continues it or not in serbian filmmaker gave us his take on the facts. i'm very happy to be. exposed to the possibility of good. russian marxian because it's made as i was told by someone from in serbia. 1 of june.