right because you know when we're all working full we're all just connected or where we're people who are still going into work and now you know your job at the you know neighborhood grocery store comes with a side risk of getting a fatal disease i think it's clearer than ever that this idea that work is supposed to be fulfilling and sort of wonderful and pleasant is a big lie. but if someone is right now in lockdown in any country in the world and they are missing their work because they love their work why could this be on the part of their of themselves and me me false false consciousness homans well i don't necessarily diagnose anybody that's false consciousness like i am like a lot of parts of my job to getting to talk to people about this book that i wrote is pretty cool right i don't want to be like oh oh oh this ripple but i think a lot of the things that remiss saying by being in locked out away from you know an office where you might get to actually talk to other people is

a talking other people are great it's that part of of being in a workplace that's actually connection and collaboration and these are things that work under capitalism is sort of actively you know colonized from us but they are human condition that don't need to be exercised only in the workplace i mean that's the communication and that the move away from fordism in the conveyor belts in the factories that that's what we that's all we have at. yeah well if you think about it right when if you worked at a factory if you worked on the assembly line nobody really cared if you're smiling at the car that goes it's right you just have to make sure that you you know do whatever part of the assembly is your job get the drive that bolts and make sure that it's done properly and safely but it doesn't much matter how you look at but if you're working in the grocery store and you're waiting in my you know you're waiting on customers as they come through in line you do have to smile and you do have to sort of be. personable and at least project that you were happy to be there

and happy to see them i mean sector by sector if we think of housework i'm not sure how you emphasize the intersectional nature of the politics of the fact that women are complaining of not being able to get cleaners injuring joran lockdown but you do make the point that the whole way work has changed is that if households swap children they can get rain for it but if they keep their own children the parents control their own children they don't get paid for rand there's this inherent absurdity to whether we think the work that is done in the whole is work and not usually you know depends on whether you're paying somebody else to come in and do it who doesn't already live there but if you live there the same thing that you're doing all day whether it's your children scrubbing that's while it whatever is not considered work. it's kind of interesting right because what happens when both because of you know feminist demands for women to be able to have access to

paid employment but also because the factory jobs that might have been able to sustain a family went away when you get more and more women moving into paid employment what happens to housework well sorry matt but you haven't been backing up the slack and so instead what's happened is that less well off women come into the home as work and yeah we saw that it was a particular sort of cleaner gates in the u.k. back in i guess whenever it was in may or june when the risk directions on lockdown were listening a little bit and people were like yeah good like me are back again and other people are like so i can't have my mom come visit but if my mom comes in as a cleaner can i say that you know can i pay my mom became to clean my house and therefore see her right like the the way that these rules got loosened during lockdown needs again and it sort of underlines the arbitrary way we think about what is and isn't work well our authorities say they're just following the science to be

a political nothing to do with power structures not so you know you can't get prove it in a pub i heard. and that's where the hell you can get coveted a puzzle patriotism or whatever it gets right i think the prime minister said it was patriotic to want to go to take a eat out to help out everybody gets a well you know i mean we laugh at it but it is true that like the disparities in who's actually getting sick and dying are based on who is speaking for us to go to work right now i think a lot about a worker who worked at the make up chain saw for a for a lockdown and they you know they reached out to me as a journalist in sort of terror that they were going to be forced back to work and suddenly something that could be kind of fun you know before kobe putting makeup on people is kind of a fun job sometimes right but now you don't want to get that close to a stranger's face right. right and so this job that once was at least you know somewhat ok even if it was still not paid well enough and not terribly 6 here now

is it's just that much more obvious that you're only doing this because you absolutely have to pay the bills now why such policies should be enacted arguably depend on the education of the people in the elite and i suppose the education of those subservient to those elites that there's quite a big section about schools being a sort of incubator of new liberalism what everyone's talking now about having a home homeschool how do you think schools help to subvert the idea of love for work and this is particularly true in the us i don't think the history is off white same way in the u.k. although it is still a feminized profession right it is still there are many many more women teachers particularly in lower grades of smaller children but in the us it's sort of very clear and you can trace the history that the people who were funding the 1st public schools hired women for teachers because they would have paid them less because

women are supposedly naturally caring good with children right i can testify personally that i'm terrified of children i'm very much not natural to go to children but the way that then you sort of see like ok so the teachers are supposed to be caring for the children and they're caring for the children but then along the way it's not good enough to be caring anymore now because of you know you get the test scores right and then if the children aren't getting good test scores that it's somehow the teachers fault for not being caring enough but then now way and if you go back into the school you are likely to be again spreading coronavirus. the teachers are somehow being insufficiently caring because they're unwilling to march back into the schools again to potentially die such a fascinating narrative the way that like teachers care is sort of always weaponized against them in a variety of different ways so right now you know teachers are going out of their minds trying to teach virtually and like you know i find it stressful to stare into

a screen for half an hour i can imagine doing it all day every day with a roomful of 9 year old staring at me and so the teachers are bending over backwards to try to teach in these conditions and being told that they don't care enough because they aren't willing to sort of go back and do it in person when the reality that's being made clear by that is that you know the people in charge of that don't really care if the kids are learning because the teachers are not getting a ton of resources to help them a better more effective teacher is virtually they're just being scolded for not being willing to do the daily childcare part of the job that happens in person so that everybody else can go back to work. of course unlike the united states in a way have british private schools called public schools like the ones the prime minister went to charities you have big sections in this book about charity and of course when coronavirus charity became a big thing with colonel tallman

a former veteran trying to help the coronavirus you called challenge charity a relationship of power interesting splaying about the importance of charity and how it. connects to work i mean again that cove it is making all of this that much more clear right when you're hearing that we should just depend on sort of neighborhood charities to make sure people get fed when they've lost their job during lockdown. the whole structure of sort of private charity filling in around the edges of what the state isn't doing and you know you're in a country that actually has a health care system at least but in any case you have a variety of organizations that work in a variety of different ways to sort of you know some are doing more explicitly political work of tinkering around the edges of trying to you know fix this thing hearing this thing there some are providing food and i mean that just reminded me of the lovely privatized food distribution system where you've got kids getting you

know like a half a sausage in a coin bag or something isn't going to air america will not have outsourced school lunches right yeah but so thinking about what it means to have sort of private charities providing for the poor. it's a whole system built on justifying the way things are by saying like oh you know the rich people give back great bill gates gives back so much of his money that how does he keep getting richer it's a mystery that it serves as a way to say that you know the people who have all of that stuff they deserve to have all of that stuff and the what they distribute around the edges is good enough we should be happy with that rather than questioning why bill gates was able to accumulate so much in the 1st place well i mean. i have to ask why the ideas in your new book on on to more obviously known i know you talk about unpaid

internships in the media that provides us with our vision of the world in many cases i mean do you think they are propagandizing the market stonily stalinism is that why more people don't know that work is much more complicated than just we should love our workplace that's a great thing and that's part of life without knowing about all the structures that you explain in the book i mean there are both sort of conscious and unconscious processes that lead us to getting to where we are right like if you go back in rehab sort of managing the literature in the past 30 years you'll see a whole bunch of people writing a battle ways to you know convince your workers to be more motivated on the job but then there is also the fact that you know if you have to do something all day every day you know early wrestle hochschild who you're as the concept of emotional labor she notes that you know if you have to pretend to like it all day long it's easier if you can convince yourself but if you are finding ways to enjoy it in some way

that makes it easier to get through the debt so there is a part of it that is is insidious like that right that it is. to go along with it because we don't have a choice but i think once again a department that has been really. illuminating in this way that we can now see the way that that this thing that we were convincing ourselves we'd like is really not giving us rich. thank you after the break new revelations thanks to also go in a sound act or a finds of the dirty tricks used by nato governments to destroy democracy in the middle east. for more than 4 years trump was called putin's public yet fighting caved to

russia's demands to continue with the new start arms agreement also though is the lesson of ali and why is he so all in for. secret prisons are not usually what comes to mind when thinking about europe however even the most prosperous can be deceived we've been busy roads along the

way to view houses were our prison was located on only people had access to the story from investigators uncovered the darkest dealings of the secret services but i mean. the great unknown in. sore need. for justice. welcome back today marks 42 years to the day that ayatollah khamenei made his seminal return to iran during the 1979 republican revolution and speculation grows over restarting in the days e.p.o. a nuclear deal with iran new light is being shown on events that prove recent nato

nation back to violence against iranian interests has a long history osc attempt to 53 starring refines reveals alleged new dirty tricks in anglo-american attempts to destroy democracy in iran directed by veteran documentary filmmaker tag e.-m. irani the film is edited in co-written by 3 time academy award winner well to merge the editor behind such classics as the conversation the godfather films apocalypse now and the english patient they both spoke earlier to going underground deputy editor charlie cook and he started by asking them about the film in 1953 the united states together with britain participated in a coup in iraq. and his government was swept from power in favor of general zod he did. the running of the coup from our side it was my responsibility. this is the sort of thing you both find in a book. $253.00 is a story of grown up with the story of the coup is something that's embedded an ingrained in the psyche of iranians i grew up with as

a child and it took me 10 years to make the film and it's 153 it's all it's communism it's the british are just americans cia m i 6 and iran struggle for democracy and control of its resources for a short window that was crushed and you've called. the original sin and people watching it might see similarities between western foreign policy than western foreign policy now why is that case are important to today's political events in the middle east well in 153 coup is the pivotal event in iran's history and how its destiny and fate changed and how it affected not just iran and its relationship with itself but also iran's relationship with the west particularly america and the u.k. we can draw a direct line from 953 to the 1979 revolution when the coup happened was that that

was overthrown for control of iranian oil and the shah was put in place was much more amenable in dealing with the west he became a man in iran in the middle east for thought well for the americans and that you know to support him to stay in power he became a kind of absolute monarch dictator and that blew up in the 79 revolution and iran's relationship post revolution and the toxic relationship it has particularly with america to this very day to this very hour right now is rooted in 53 and walter people oversea know your your work on the godfather and the conversation and apocalypse now how do you become involved in this film. i met toddy in 2012 in new york i was working on another documentary then about the search for the higgs bows on talk he graduated in physics from nottingham university we met at a gentleman's apartment who was investing both in the particle physics film and in

3 and because of the physics connection we hit it off and had just had maintained a relationship over sense tell you and i right in saying that this sound was made over a decade while to how i was iffy to try and compile so much kind of content and data into such a sinked mv. time time and pressure how do you create a diamond you start with carbon and you compress it under great pressure and great each which is to say tension and you wind up with something that is both clear and dense at the same time. talking just just talk about the importance of nationalization when it comes to some very at the heart of the case and the kind of the legacy of the. well the british treated iran like it was a colony but it was never part of the empire and they had complete control of

iranian oil for decades until mossad came to power in fact he he ran for for the premiership he no he stood as prime minister on the ticket of nationalizing iranian along with his prime purpose and that happened in april 1981 nationalization was wasn't so much about control of resources and getting the benefit of iranian resource in or oil and the money from it but it was also exerting iran's independence and its sovereignty because the british treated iran like it was their thing it was india 2.0 and was sad and iranians were resentful of the way they would be treated by the british not only was there all looted and taken away running or the angrily running all company was the biggest overseas asset of the british state it british navy ran it ran on it they paid the war debts on it and it was a huge huge resource and most of it's a bastard enough already and we want to take control back and that didn't go down

well bit with the british particularly churchill who could have considered iranian oil british oil and other reasons for wanting to stand up to mossad there and they came up with the idea of overthrowing him pretty much immediately was like the moment you nationalized you had to go sooner or later we had to get rid of him is what they say he was also going to set an example a bad example for other countries wanting to follow suit and in fact that's exactly what happened with the suez canal and egypt nasser of hero worship mossad that there's a street in cairo named after him so that's why the nationalization was so important and through what means just explain some of the ways before the actual current 53 how they counted. destabilize the iranian government yeah it was a it was as a set ingredient it was like you're going to make this dish you need this you need this you need this in order to have a successful coup you need to have the media on your side you have to buy the media you have to get newspaper editors to write propaganda pieces against mossad on his

government to destabilize and discredit him that happened you have to buy m.p.'s and members of parliament to going to vote for legislation that's in your favor not the iranians favor you have to have the military on your side and the mob you need always you need a rent a mob and you have to assassinate a general or 2 that's right critical point that had a very loyal general very solid general and on his side and and he in fact had a list of conspirators who plotters and he was about to publish this and the health of m i 6 under the direct direct rect issue of m i 6 norman darvish or my 6 officer who was running this coup they sasson ated and in fact killing and devoted loyal army general became a bit of a template they did that in chile as well in $73.00 and arguably acars obviously of customs and on is assassination how do truman said there is nothing new in the world except the history you do not know almost everything that's playing out on

the world stage with iran and its relationship with the west in some way has played out before even sanctions and the oil embargo the british put an embargo on iranian oil boycott iranian oil and told everybody around the world they put adverts in international newspaper saying if you buy iranian oil you buy a lawsuit because you're actually buying stalling or you're buying our or so and you know we have sanctions right now so nothing is new you have to read history to find out it's all happened before fake news was invented by to cia and m i 6. i'm sure m i 6 at least definitely deny that well. he mentioned norman you know everything until recently mit united existed as an institution you mention norman darvish or walter just tell us about the end of empire this program that is kind of the crux of the film. that we discovered fairly early on that those those wonderful program had made as part of

a series issued by on channel 4 by granada television in 1905 called end of empire and it was the story of the british empire and how it was winding down and although as tidy said iran was not ever officially part of the end of the british empire it was operationally the so and had been for a couple of 100 years and so there was an episode dedicated to iran and we looked at it and saw it was as fantastic that we found out that the producers of end of empire had given all of the film and all of the outtakes of this to the british film institute which amounted to something like 10 hours at least and. what we were looking for was the film of a particular interview with this british agent norman barbara for and talk he had

discovered a transcript made by end of empire of an interview with norman darbyshire a couple of years earlier in a basement in paris this was an operational transcript that had been cut up by the director of the film because it was so amazing and the the good bits were put into some kind of a script. but when we got the stuff from the b f i there was no. so. this asian norman darby for no trace of it and that led us down many a rabbit hole we found people who gave conflicting evidence about whether this film was ever shot or not so we. found an actor in this case wraith finds wonderful actor who i had worked with on english patient back in the mid ninety's and he agreed and his busy busy busy schedule he was playing mark anthony

at the national theatre at the time and he agreed to come to the savoy hotel where many of the original interviews for end of empire were shot and read episodes of fragments from this fantastic 14 page transcript. and he as the originator of the coup he was one of the co-authors of you know how how do you do this. and and he was directing the coup by radio from cyprus as it was unfolding tightly that that could not a team deny being lent to edit out this interview is that your contention that the british government kind of next the normand obvious or into command of empire. well there's been a lot of discussion about this this this was potentially going to be a legal challenge that never happened what we don't we don't take a line in the song if you watch the film carefully and really watch the film carefully with kind of objective we simply interview people honestly and fairly and

accurately and it's very transparent there's nothing there's no nothing magical or kind of tricksy editing going on we could all these testimonies alongside each other we has journalists come away unclear one critical thing let's not lose sight of the most important thing nobody is denying that these are darker shoes own words that that transcript is authentic it's a real recording of his interview tape on tape to take 3 tape for and. it's out there it's for the 1st time in great detail in a magnificent performance by ray finds delivering explosive revelations that have never really been put out there in this form in a documentary before that's that's the claim to be the 1st to do that in fact it's even been acknowledged by. the vampire team that our film is the 1st to do that why do you think the u.k. government still denies any involvement in the case well it's one of the most absurd weird open secrets the whole world knows everyone knows it's one of those

like the biggest elephant in the room it's. in the absence of the admission and i see and i see an official admission because jack straw's talked about it people have talked about it it's in books it's you know it's been it's been out in cia declassified papers it's everywhere even and of empire of course clearly they talk about it it's you know it's been in the will the report published in 1954 it's you know it's everywhere it's like you turn around everywhere there's the british part and a coup out there why do not admitting it who knows it's that it worked they work in peculiar ways. evacuated creates a by not admitting to this gave open field open field to states for kemet who's about to take credit for this it has been known for decades as the cia coup the iranians come into the streets and shout death to america mainly because they saw this as an american thing the revolution you know the shah was the cia's man and dr

sharon abscissa list thinks enough already this was my gig i wrote the plan i ran this coup then then lyndon. johnson added something hit the fan then it was about to go wrong on fail and kemet was told to leave i stayed and 200 around i ran my mom and so maybe that's another reason why he gave this interview i have to say that moment is a fantastic character he unfortunately died in 1903 but as a young man during world war 2 he went out to iran as a of in a list of man age 19 in 143 he learned how to speak farsi he learned how to navigate the street and he rose very quickly through the ranks because of this talent and after the war was over he very quickly became part of the speaker of service which. became m i 6 and

rose through the ranks there. in comparison. kermit roosevelt who was the cia head of the coup did not speak or anyone was only in iran for 3 weeks what was your normal divers who had essentially been in iran for 10 years well to tell you thank you so much you're welcome thank you to yemen ronny and well to much speaking to going underground hippie had to charlie cook that and you can watch 253 online now might bring home that seventy's show back home when zach. until then subscribe to the time on you tube and join the underground on twitter facebook telegram gramatica.

secret prisons are not usually what comes to mind when thinking about europe however he even the most prosperous can be deceived within the zeros all there were to view houses were allowed to leave prison was located and only cia people had access to the story for investigators show how they uncovered the darkest dealings of the secret services but i mean one of. the great of nor been taught. pocky see maybe a sore knee yes or no for. crying for justice or nazi. one else seemed wrong why don't we all just don't call. me old yet to say proud just because as a kid and engagement because of the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground.

in the day's headlines a feud between the e.u. and a british vaccine maker intensifies with france and germany proposing at least astra zeneca gives new treatment. unrest breaks out yet again in friends over a security bill giving extra powers to police officers themselves say violent troublemakers are avoiding prosecution. and a norwegian a politician who calls for black lives matter to be given the nobel peace prize for

its fight against racial inequality we put the proposal for debate.