hello and welcome to cross talk or all things considered i'm peter lavelle u.s. president joe biden has formally presented his administration's foreign policy vision it's a mixed bag for sure here on this edition of crossfire we break it all down the good the bad and the ugly. to discuss joe biden's foreign policy i'm joined by my guest claimed these and also he is a professor in author of the book russian conservatism managing change under permanent revolution and here in moscow we have maxine shook off he is an expert at the russian international affairs council originally crossed up rules of effect that means you can jump at any time you want and i was appreciate it ok let's go to

glenn 1st here in oslo and looking at joe biden's 1st speech at the state department. was supposed to be his vision here and the mainstream media was positive towards it and he stressed at least in the beginning of his comments about diplomacy but if you look at he entire speech there is no diplomatic initiative being presented and very interesting way where there could be and should be diplomacy is afghanistan and it wasn't even mentioned once and i making a reference to the previous administration's deal to get u.s. troops out of afghanistan remarkably it was absent and we'll talk about how russia played a role in it so essentially i saw no restraint i saw no real as and in many ways the continuity of the of the trim foreign policy go ahead plan. well i think the way he referred to diplomacy was mostly time so this you had the democratic allies

us because it is also a common theme going stir and i got to get a little bit dangerous all for trying there are different but in some ways kind of similar because the main theme by his foreign policy speech was america's back. and this for me it's all there is a little bit similar to it becomes biden's hershon ohio trying so make america great again not for tropical siddur america economic the collide to reduce its relevance in the world so he wanted more return on investment if you want for their military deployments and. they're very practical in those terms are transactional while biden sees the liberal decline of the u.s. to be the source of us wrote reduced relevance in the world and also very explicit about this is all in a speech because i want to link also a cultural revolution going through in the us at the moment i want to refer to scourge of white supremacy and yes he was very explicit this is linked to foreign

policy as well because. our values at home will be you know how we lead in the world while trying to lead with economic dominance and sees it as leading on value so also this was. a lot of the king of the speech the folks on the product allies the values. that it's logical conclusion then joe biden is talking about a colored revolution in america ok so we can talk about that a little bit later i mean these things that end up being connected and i think connected in people where people don't understand the law of unintended consequences you go to maxime here. the overall thrust of it was america is back and he said that but my reaction to that was well american never left she's done a stage in a different way as we just heard from glenn well i think a total. i agree with you i don't think america is ever left is just perhaps the

feeling that there is within the democratic party and he is that and space that honored trump the american image for apps their miracle or ship is down and biden is there to you know bring america back in the sense that america will be more visible more committed to respond 1st and all that jasc will honestly i think america eased back in the sense of kind of moral lecturing us some of the states that sees its adversaries and i think there is no coincidence of course that russia going to dominate especially in the 1st half of the speech biden's rhetoric is perhaps the biggest spoiler of the international system where the american dominate international system as biden sees it. but i ain't seen in the in the series i think it would this be it wasn't really much of a surprise in moscow is people pretty much expect it saying rather and i think we discussed even in this program in the run up to this administration that there will be

a lot of this emphasis on human rights and democracy and moral lecturing he mentioned volatile it's not so the reason but at the same time i have to say on the same day and i thought of mayor markable that was the 1st phone call between the foreign minister lever off and state secretary of lincoln and if you're right the state department readout of the conversation you get a sense that pretty much the conversation was the way that you know clinton was lecturing lateral fundament rights and then all the other things and leverage just mistaken notes reza when you read the russian press release i thought it was more substantive and i get a sense that was a more substantive conversation in the sense they discussed i mean many areas but i thought the most remarkable were the. possible or exchange you know the americans detained in iran and russia and possibly the russians the team the united states cop or asian in the demick. and you know these aren't. control thing. it and then means perhaps if there is kind of managed confrontation this is the

best what controls were in this circumstance yeah isn't it glenn it might seem that brings up a very good point i mean look at the readouts and you know and again what biden had to say it's an enormous amount of bluster and hot air and it's for domestic consumption to mean they if you look at the foreign minister in the secretary of state yeah there was the bluster in the hot air and all that but then it was some brass tacks to which i thought you know it's maksim rightly points out i think that's going to be basically the basis of the relationship because the russia gate hoax is bled into american foreign policy any you just cannot ring that bell you know i mean there is no and it's going to say well you know we've moved on you can't do that ok and it's really put the bike in ministration in a bind not the russians because the russians are on the receiving end of it go ahead. you know well i think this is this big horse are actually i

wouldn't be too worried about it i think actually come produce better policies now it was very specific he said you know america will no longer roll over for russia again there's no clear to me how the u.s. has rolled over for russia under trump so what do you really. just shiva trump in our relations spiraled out of control somebody who thinks this is going to distinguish between speech of policies and the 1st was always this policy is is so kindly to him and biden has reassured us that he's very strict the tough when he speaks to or didn't so this appears to be this being so to speak loudly and carry a little stake in terms of policies and what can move the u.s. do now i mean to have maxed out on the sanctions against russia but again i you know call me an optimist but i think this is a bit of a positive approach because the most important thing that u.s. and russia can do now is to manage this conflict as might or might manage it also the competition. realistic cause i don't think there's much that can be accrued in the foreseeable future so there will be no reset again i think this is probably

a good thing cos there's so much animosity at the moment any efforts to reset it will get caught up with out there the met it's kind of interesting because this is the 1st american administration coming to power since the end of the cold war but is that as it restive posture towards russia every single other missed new admission ministration coming and was looking at for some kind of reset ok and the biden ministration to say now we're not going to try that so i think you're both writing in from a baseline and maybe that in a very odd way counter to counter intuitive way that's a positive because if you're not going to be disappointed go ahead. and listen really we're not discipline from from the onset right when a bit disappointed further down the road but not that the beginning i agree it's a it's a new approach of the american administration and i think the want that moscow is history rather happily embracing for now we'll see where it goes perhaps i mean

it's really hard to find a new substantive agenda for the bilateral relations in the moment that's why i brought brought up this i thought it was interesting that the russian press release mentioned this cooperation and then i don't think it's going to happen especially when they mentioned you know that the russians americans are going to come up with a joint vaccine resource thinking about that i think there's you know big pharma think that's really hard to deal with in the united states and that's not really where that's about that right moscow's going to go there but perhaps the little small steps such as they also mention the restoration of normal functioning or normal operations of the diplomatic missions i think that's one important thing that will perhaps disability some context doesn't really require a lot of i mean it does require political will but does not see does not require a lot of concessions or sacrifices politically i think you know restoration of diplomatic missions were not perhaps a necessary. possible prisoner exchange i think would be big and demand much more

political will specially in front from the united states perhaps it's one other option but policy weiss i don't think there might be a lot of movement in a positive direction so perhaps and i'm personally more of a proponent of the what i'd call a strategic loss in the relations at least for some time when the 2 parties can focus on their own kind of domestics and not use each other as as the kind of galvanizing element for political reasons. i don't think it's going to happen either yet the russia as you mentioned. being led yes i am just want to point out because in united states being on russia is a very much very important far luke alleges it so people speak against moscow like reagan he had the political legitimacy and political capital to go to moscow and make deals you know people are trying to say oh let's get along with russia we you know in common they will be cut out in size and that you know that take that us agency and relations will become orse ever before so again i would agree with max

point that this thing is to a certain extent an extend existing arms control treaties and cooperate on pragmatic issues like extending it in this arms treaty and again this is what biden said let's extend this arms treaty and you know the magic issues you know on that you want here if you will embrace the rhetoric you know to point out america has this moral authority and dominance over russia and maybe that's a good saying at least the stabilizes positions and united states then you do have to speak to that arab domestic audiences as well could be because of their be the level and kind of rhetoric that biden is starting out in his secretary of state during his mation hearings. i was you used reagan as a storable president i would go even further back i go to nixon nixon went it's 9 so i mean. witness with all of this her and and we never would have bought that

rushed the russia gate hoax would have sent to be so versatile ok and it's working great you can use it in domestic politics even used on the internet asked stage it has a lot of use since ok but you know if they keep up this type of rhetoric and bite you know because biden is going to be the last i mean he was in he was in the all office in the last days of the old obama administration and saw his apparently starts ok with michael flynn all right and so he now has its uses and who knows maybe uses behind down but i mean he could be kind of a nixon type character and so i don't you can you can trust me because i think all of us and our viewers going to agree there's a lot of important issues that you should all be armed as. you know fiery rhetoric here i'm extreme let's kind of spread it out a little bit you know i think one thing in the in the speech like i pointed out afghanistan wasn't meant nidal which i think was kind of interesting when there's

a lot of focus on saudi arabia for some reeds and i mean i had an interesting week you know he said you know it is a continuation of the trumpet administration with what was 1st more distant west to reoffend. right well i think it's just things i actually don't know and i guess that i was i thought to be a new administration has taken a very different approach from the one that the trump adopted in the sense that they're not really are very good they're a lot more focused song on talking with you know them being here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break and continue our discussion on the bike need ministrations foreign policy save r.t. . elderly forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. i robot must obey the orders given by human beings except where such orders would

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welcome back across top where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're talking about joe biden's foreign policy. ok let's go back to mexico here in moscow ready for a little break we're talking about what you just said is possibly a different approach the bite to ministration is that is going to have with afghanistan go right ahead right and you know the trumpet ministration advocating kind of these negotiations with the taliban as an important element on the ground and then and you know one foreign element to embrace a safe there or there should be a settlement on afghan conflict by demonstration seems to be taken on more a kind of tough approach on the taliban and more conciliatory towards the afghan

government and the taliban are obviously not happy with that so there might be a lot more instability and we'll see if there is a space for for moscow and beijing to jump on saudi arabia i thought was really interesting but i have to say that the biden policy team kind of composed. you know the so-called press pragmatists such as say blinking you know what let's say that it's on air so called i would exactly exactly the local reformists such as solid who thinks of yourself as kind of a new henry kissinger you know willing to do some. superb thinks and that is the progressives who are mostly working on this economic and domestic agenda up there very unhappy that they did not make its way into the you know the foreign policy domain so punishing or castigating the saudis for the war in yemen and you

know kind of over all of human rights abuses is an is in a way a in these it's argot for the biting to placate the progress that's. and you know ending the war and in even yemen basically does not require a lot of you know bipartisan consensus or. you know any vaccine is if i could just jump in here look at the wording the u.s. you would stop supporting a saudi arabia's offensive actions ease of the am i'm paraphrasing here i don't have the text but you can parse that in so many different ways it's not saying that we're going to make the saudis stop now there are at a red just horrific war against him and he's didn't that's not right and here that's why that's why 1 i say it has more to do with that with kind of domestic appeal to the progressive wing of the democratic party a morsel done to these foreign policy changes go a lot for say you know they need perhaps to do something that will look at the progressive will appreciate and then to get package it as

a transformative foreign policy approach which in fact will not be such you know i mean i'm glad that there's no downside in doing that because we still don't know the fate of these arms agreements that the trump administration made in the in the waning months of before the new administration came into power as that's left open ended here we don't know about that ok but there is plenty of arms agreements made during that the trumpet ministration here so there's very little doubt but little downside at this point here but it's also they you know you know castigating the warrant against yemen but the same time again i was really surprise and we will protect the sovereignty of the of the kingdom ok i think you know that was going to the election we see would spread to sovereignty of the united states the southern border it's a topic for another program go ahead it was a common theme throughout the foreign policy speech was that it was a bit contradictory because he wanted to be very strong and firm in language but

really it didn't take a session saw for example this obvious a good example so the u.s. it was very clear like because of their more about moral values the u.s. . office or against yemen but it's the us all still support saudi arabia against iran now by this previously also said that he agrees with this assessment that the yemen war is the main conflict between saudi arabia and iran so so it's a very difficult to have it both ways a lot doesn't mean that the us has mainly provided support for saudi arabia in disorder in yemen they want to help us out but again i did not ask saudi arabia to start or so so in some ways this is their poor souls issue it could actually mean absolutely nothing or what exactly would change and this is coming again is a running theme saying well china we will be very tough on china however sure we will succumb to the understanding and you know russia will get tough on russia you know we don't really have any more sanctions we really need this trade so i dislike

this foreign policy speech it really tells me that the u.s. is still trying to find its place another outlet changing world and it also tells me that the u.s. is still very divided domestically so has to appeal to all groups i mean the terror credit on itself is very fractured and he speaks to all sides of this divided party he has to throw out some something for everyone which is why this is you know a mixed not so you know i mean that speech resist a mixed bag of virtues signaling all the way through here maxy on the 1st day the biden ministration there were reports that american troops in iraq were transferred into syria now we have to remember that we have mr blinken who is in the obama administration very much involved in the syria syria conflict you may think he may feel that there's unfinished business there and that if that doesn't bode well for syria obviously and for regional stability. i'm very worried about

that because he waken if you look at what he said in the recent past is that the u.s. didn't do enough for regime change didn't do enough. to change syria now is secretary of state her yes absolutely well i think he's pretty. committed sin or in terms of generals transforming his words into actual policy and i think it eco's well across other agencies of the u.s. government the gentry really topple us militarily we're 3 who are a special operation right now and strangling the regime and who can more costs an additional burden on and on russia and iran for support and damascus as i think is going to be the policy of this administration in the in the in the coming days one aspect to watch for apps is the u.s. relationship. with turkey and it's a kurdish groups on the ground because the movement of troops that you mentioned

from iraq to syria is reportedly this is kind of trance from additional military hardware and other support for the kurdish groups and this is something that not just russia did not like or syria obviously did not read like it is this is basically fortification of the american and british positions around some of that will reserves but also turkey did not relax and it will be a bunch of very difficult relations to to manage is initially you know for going back to what lincoln and others mentioned before they entered office whether they were willing to expand this kind of cleavage between moscow and entre and including on syria but now you know by its by support an additional kurdish formations it just makes for a more angry. well it's very interesting i mean again it's kind of a very weird virtue signalling glenn you know i mean it's a stirring things up here. during the trumpet ministration now in the early days of

the by the ministry no one has really explained why the united states needs to continue with the illegal occupation of syria it's never explain what is their strategic goal and when and when what does it mean to win quote unquote it's never made clear. well this want to go. on for a start of this social is that discussing the topic biden this is about many differences you know in one camp it began to out well occupied the oil fields on syria on how we got their oil we're going to make some money you know. i think it was a difference of 1st 1st day in office he intensifies doctor patient in syria you know he speaks the language of them are christians for uganda. and you know shimon rice and rainbows if you use them are different language but the policies are very similar so. yeah i mean but and that's just talking nonsense like i mean how can you be talking about diplomacy and democracy when you're occupying

a country illegally under international law it's complete nonsense here let me stay here with you glenn you said something that probably more than anything else caught my eye and i really didn't understand what it meant and i thought it was in some ways it was kind of a him you lation or copying of trump emotion he said he wanted a foreign policy for the middle class did you find that interesting is i'm not really sure what he meant by that is that mean that you know america 1st you know build infrastructure jobs for americans control immigration because that's what the middle class would like i didn't understand and the reason i'm thinking about it now is because you said and i think you're absolutely right is that he's talking to different constituencies in the united states is this say is this a. something towards moderate republicans or something like that because i don't and i don't know where that apparently is the big proponent of this i don't know what it is all it could be i mean even more recently hillary clinton published an

article in the i think foreign affairs for a man argument effectively comes argument i cannot mix nationalism so we have to regain our technological advantage to get back industries from china you know has to control as for teaching technologies to trust haitian or gores those are the banks are very much there are the same arguments that i cannot make nationalism of trump now again and that's a good reasons behind this oh he might be going after some of. the trump orders because the problem for the democrats is ever since occupy wall street they haven't well it's from long before they. addressed the middle class in terms of any one address economic issues because what can you really do it was the economic issues if you still got a piece or a daughter so they can shift the discussion now is the problem isn't economic inequality is racism and so it's transsexuals it's you know we need more equity in

it and it's a lead became. anything but economic something that doesn't cost you money to. deal with so you might be so he has a different. approach strip young old people who abandoned the left and they went with trump i mean this is a theme we saw not just in the u.s. on in britain as well that the right wing populist are suddenly taking a voting base from the political left and their failure to address economic questions is a big reason for this ok next 20 seconds you know you see nato expansion the bite ministration. us and that's a big one. factor in this mansion crane in georgia into context self kind of solution. again there also as for nature it's sending an alarm signal and moscow i'm not excluding this entirely but an interest if they don't might be some pushback against this and in turn longer west european countries and germany and

france in particular. are personality. by foreign policy i want to make my guess and also and most of what i want to thank our viewers are watching us here are he's the next member. of. the world is driven by.

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