i think there is a moral imperative to get this about seen when he's off air i think refusing is a vaccine now is it morally irresponsible. as is responsible to delay the execution approve of like europe for example because every every day we wait before approving or get out of that scene it means the more nice will be lost so i think that it is a moral responsibility of our ng to do us good about seem on the collective to create a system whereby as many vaccine as possible are distributed and on governments to approve and are allowed to expansion program as quickly and effectively as possible only a moral question do you think elites fully understand why the dispossessed as it were do not trust elites when they tell them to take vaccines after you know arguably being repeated and they lied to over so many things whether it be the colony whether it be you hadn't of the iraq war i agree so there is another

mistrust also within despondingly there's been a lot of either misinformation or lack of clarity around certain issues in the last 10 months for example around whether mosques were effective or not i don't know whether looking down is effective or not it is a lot of conflicting information i think it's quite understandable that it's a lot of distrust that at sobeys isn't bishan to tip normal and background and sentiment that has been growing in the last month so i think these are quite the dangers approach. building up the public's trust is a priority or it is a moment because. as a set. like lowered your chin up dig means more than ice we lost well i should say obviously the british government still gives no mandatory advise about having to wear masks outside famously the world health organization served there weren't effective up until relatively recently what do you make though of the fact that the

so-called mainstream media that always talked about anti vaccine and fake news itself has been saying questions over the astra zeneca vaccine because of the south african variant questions over this or that vaccine when well sometimes like in the south african variance cases not even peer reviewed a study over apparent allegedly lack of effectiveness now i think personally that that mystery meat you are is being or still quite irresponsible you respond to me around a number of issues and one is the one you mentioned so on of oxidation. for example there were these headlines a few days ago about one 3rd of the people who are going to be. seen are reporting a side effect oh sure it is headline sounds like the vaccine is actually dangerous . there saudis are most of us majority of cases these are very very mild side effects every rock scene has some mild side effects and not sports for permission to flu vaccine for example so you should not be the most sore in your arm there

comes a side effect but is there not a big deal so it's kind of reporting is a bit irresponsible and the south african. it seems that scene is less effective use if you're less effective on your body and to that of the virus as you said these are not peer reviewed yet but the important thing is that again how you report information makes a world of difference so what what what we what it seems is that it's not as affective. prevent teen contact don't present a virus of preventing infection but it seems that it feels very effective at preventing the most serious case of preventing hospitalization so is that your strength or your correct scene even if it doesn't prove easy vs not as effective as your marriage can be seen at preventing infection it is very very effective at preventing a serious symptoms and hospitalization and these seems to be the case for the south african variant as well so it is still quite effect significant effective at

preventing and after all death is there or we need to keep this virus under control and we it is not so much about limiting infection is about limiting the seat as it is that there is out of the host be the musicians and deaf so we need to be a bit more balanced in the way we perceive it and we are poor is going to be from asia especially since as you said it's the in the not peer review i mean us. when do we get to the stage where we start calling calling these variants not covert 19 because i mean it seems amazing that they still call covert 19 of a mutant can attack someone who already has the antibodies for over 19 and make them ill yeah that's a good question how that is very much a scientific question but. that's that's. not too relevant i would think as long as we know that we're going to succeed we have now can always be tweaked and changed to adjust to the new body and so to be effective against humanity so it

seems that so listen to the consensus that peace will always be possible you might think sometimes i think if you months to do that but as long as i'm at the same pixie that we have developed can be changed and tweak it and be adjusted accordingly variance i think that even though we might want to call discovery $21.00 and but then you're sort of x. even let's call it you know a square box in 21 and as long as we can catch up with that i would think that is a major issue and i do moment it seems that we are we are in that same assumingly existing tests that only detect changes in a particular bot of the genome sequence actually detect elements of the new variant . new variants genomic sequence i would i would assume but i mean these are i suppose complex epidemiological issues that haven't been established yet yeah you're right some of you do think you think these are new virus and we don't wish to be behind so that you know it's always about catching up with the virus how it

spreads how it was how to mutate unfortunate deaths this question. because it's a pandemic we've got your battles. seen we have testing technology we have developed everything in the last 10 months so we don't it's always about catching up so and that that somebody unfortunate about. and impression going to be pretty about well a prime minister of ours johnson said will be world beating but you've written about this subject but did it not even surprise you how quickly the european union immediately it seemed sought to endanger peace in ireland over the access to vaccination. yes so i personally am a big us order but i have to say in the specific case. you can't it was a bit embarrassing i think they're probably going to be a stat they have delayed a vaccine approval for too long which would cost price and they probably signed

a better deal with from a secret companies so what it tried to do it was to protect their own internet interests. using rexx it were using receive court there using their right to do so they had a right to do that but it would have been a bit. irresponsible in a way i don't mean necessarily juicing a lot of the european union because similar battles of taking those geopolitically whether it be obviously the the elephant in the room being africa and the and the very little that the nations given there but how do you see the geopolitics playing out in this country belatedly after laughter about russia's 5 vaccines in the mainstream media here 0 reporting it appears to be would be albeit less effective as far as we know sign of a chinese vaccines how do you see it playing out in this information battle. where it's a problem because. so there is this now isn't it independent school boxing nationally and so. each country tried to program their own using their own interest the u.k.

is doing that europe is doing that every country is doing that and the result is that certain countries have a large availability of many vaccines the u.k. was had 5 but since i made about many countries don't have a mixin because of their resources likes them to political power to strike deals with some of the company is that he's got phone calls callbacks that does rituals to target to government. x. the blast of a scene we're right but it's not really working very well because of which countries who commits to that are not really living up to their commitment so the geopolitical factors would play a huge role in their way in the speed at which we get out of this pandemic it will be a very uneven way out some counties will get better with a get out of emergency much quicker wealthy countries so that's a problem because it's a global pandemic so we need a bit more of consistency in the way but see certainly if the good were right well

for ethical reasons but also because it is in each country interest to make sure that the vaccines that this would exceed we would write because otherwise the virus we come back to being the mutated for if we don't keep it under control are going to work given the speed of development vaccination programs and so on is it obvious now that when of when an epidemic breaks out in a country the response is going to be dependent on whether that country is seen as important in the mainstream media let alone within power structures yes unfortunately that. we saw it with bridges and they make we have the ability to make a break in. western africa we did develop a vaccine it was not as fast as it happened now previous outbreaks of other coronavirus imprudence arce 1000 that didn't result in a vaccine so one reason why we don't have an accent now is that. when

a previous coronavirus emerge. and we didn't put much effort to develop a vaccine because you managed to contain the virus and if you did locally you know so they were aware when a major concern but once it calms the virus comes into you know western country a rich country and that's where. course we are more concerned it's very important because as we saw it want to be very much better because. if we can we should be required to address. the kind of programs what i would advise but also because these things backfires so the reason why we don't have a car seat now is that when we had a previous can about as we know with enough effort to develop a vaccine back then. albeit that the big pharmaceutical companies will say actually we didn't do badly that should say there's been a new outbreak this week i'm not sure that's in the news headlines in parts of africa ultimately what do you make of the it seems

a direct correlation with class war why is there this direct correlation within the rich countries of death and class many explanation have been given one is that. people from lower such a common background and to the jobs that were there at high risk. mortgage we can access see and have true services larger programmed out pre exceeds the pandemic but when major crises occur any kind of social economic inequality that creates these things to become more marked so it is often the case that you know those who are really well off are not much affected by any kind of crisis economic crisis. we are now there will be an economic crisis there is an economy cries that would be one as a result of on the measures enough so again goes from forced from my background would be most affected and they have been affected the 10 richest billionaires on

earth now have all money to they could solve world poverty overnight apparently in vaccinate the entire world basically do you see the epidemics like there's pandemics like this is just enriching the job of society even more and that there are actually very good things for the richest and. got through it whether so before it is always the case that the top and 50100 people in the ward who to solve any kind of crisis or it could sort of though the problem of. people starving even before they've been desperate to kids even before the pandemic one problem we have in the moment to be vaccine is not so much about. financial resort. this is not so much about well it's about it's about the fact that we don't have enough vaccines at the moment to give to everyone in the long run of course we might want to think about. it distributing where to special welfare group is proportionally

throated condemning you know way that benefits dogs who are worse off as a result of the exception would be the most obvious where we in fact you can think of other measures could look at dr alberto jr learning thank you after the break we examine the ways britain's empire in which the sun never sets shines on its internal colonies is covered continues its disproportionate kill rate against the poor the rich get richer. internet censorship is happening at an accelerated pace conservatives and progressives are mean to monetise to any platform more times than not the censorship is never really explained we are left to assume when the phrase community standards is invoked we somehow we're threatening but that's what you said here is all about.

the new gold rush is underway and gonna thousands of ill equipped workers are flocking to the gold fields hoping to strike it rich. as. those that work children are torn between gold. my family was very poor i thought i was doing my best to get back to school which side will have the strongest appeal. welcome back today marks 115 years since care hardy's british labor party was formally named now run by knighted kier starmer but the patriotic divide in hardy's opposition to world war one seemingly lives on after leaked internal strategy

documents recommend labor embracing flags the military and dressing up smartly at war memorials the game of national identity politics and union flag known by some as the butcher's apron are explored in dr james trafford's new book the empire at home internal colonies and the end of britain he joins me now from london james welcome to going underground what a what a week for me to be talking to your business in the past few days the labor leader has a guest star is being told by focus groups are wrapping himself in the flag and the entire country has been mourning the loss of an iconic coronavirus figure captain tom a veteran of cologne your warren in miran more. you say that the union flag is redolent of cologne your violence just intrinsically went when one sees the flag which makes it all more ironic perhaps that we're seeing the flag again again joins virus yeah absolutely i think it's not by accident

so i did notice that in ireland. as the secretly symbolic role which we seem to crave these kind of national cliques or longer. or a strength for roots and colonial. and dad or are they the requirement the way he produced forms of national belonging against another for example the racialized either through 3 clone your wars through 3 clay or extraction 3 empire in the way that we use the strategies at the end of all and when you as an opponent press. i mean we want to explore we want to explore some of the attitudes about imperialism but human coronavirus is the big issue what do you think about

the invocations of world war 2 in the battle against coronavirus and the use of a flag as our armor against microscopic biological from home. i think it is it's quite telling the way that coronaviruses immediately processed through this lens or insurgency and threats and enemy right and then boris we saw with this supposedly churchillian moment and using this kind of british exceptionalism to almost laughed off the idea that it would affect us as badly as a kitty as in china. and the way we dealt with that was to put in place incredibly strict lockdowns calls for authoritarian policing across across the board politically together with the continuation of work for those who couldn't work can be furloughed in service of the protection of the citizen and

protection of the economy so there's a kind of yes certainly a kind of covert nationalism that we've seen stoking. dowager for empire. as our response means as part a way that we respond as a country with the way that we've dealt with responding to threats as if they're always from outside we can see this now in the way that we're talking about south african variant for example this new kind of super virus. berent. in fairness we did mention the kent their e and they try to call it the can vary enormously over seas call the british mutant mutation but you all asleep think the coronavirus response and certainly the issues you were talking about as regards are a civil defense response are redolent of something in britain's internal colonialism yeah absolutely misses to do with the way that we

differentiate and i are coyotes people in science research the way that certain people. are put become closer more carriers to arms and. the inability to survive and in the case of cope it's literally so that black people are 4 times more likely to die in britain off kovan yeah absolutely and we know why that's the case we know that this is because over crowded housing and conditions of it see almost half of black children in the u.k. are in poverty but some. reliance of the charisse work so in jobs you know coming from home necessarily and require commuting long distances i should just say you know very well that the windrush scandal where are people who are being deported to the caribbean briton british black people the government. journalist said

this is an outlier and it was that's why it was a scandal you see the wind rush scandal as emblematic of this. yes absolutely and i think one of the ways that we told this story 'd about rickson being non-racist multicultural. one of the ways that we continue to do that is by drawing attention to the most virulent acts of racism and supposedly outliers we draw attention to them as if they're an anomaly rather than looking at the wider systems which are supports it and make those things. there's no there's no wind rush for example without a hostile environment. but equally there's no one fresh without all kind of ways that we develop citizenship and nationality acts since the 2nd world war to the internal colonialism i mean we soon act has been accused johnson's chancellor of

privilege and those who own property to those who rent it again you see echoes of imperialism over centuries so what i mean one thing i'm tracing in the perk is the way that wealth was available for accumulation primarily 3 things like home ownership it all largely white middle classes and ways it was absolutely impossible like a nation explain your migrants to access for a long long periods of time and this is hashish not on impacts. you know you have something like 30 percent of white households saving their own properties out rights and only around 80 percent of songs in the same position. so you know this is and we see part of this is related to the way in which we can accumulate wealth really. inheritance so the weight of well built up 3 families and

3 communities and this has not come impacts on. the ability to control what you're able to do right so for example if you're living in a primarily black community in london. which becomes. possible for developments that becomes the objects of a kind of managed decline put into the hands of property developers. so make possible except so gentrify or the people are called a socially plans you're not in a position and see to sort of. fight against that in the same way that you might be if he if you own property safe rents go up and there's very little you can do if you're incapable of meeting the rent demands then you'll be pushed out further out since and this outskirts of london. and you really see justification for

instance the coersion the grazing surveillance state all these factors as. you can draw a line from i don't know the 800 year occupation of island to. a matter of the boer war you can draw a line to that to now and our program response absolutely we're using very similar strategy so using strategies for example of financial extortion that were used in the restructuring of the world that until your resistance and decolonisation. the strategies of depp's for example are really important in the way that we've extracted wealth extracted over and above the wages. it's always i make it public intentionality everything as it was i took us a little bit in the book it's one of the problems with the way that we've understood racism is we make it into an individual acts of

prejudice or bias or exclusion. where is both sing on colonialism requires us to look at the material exchange the way that all of us he works the way our legal system works a policing works and the way that all 6 gather these things add up to produce hugely differential impact on certain communities inside the u.k. and the outside as well and just finally and briefly if anyone's getting depressed by all of this in the years or hundreds of years of never pressure and yeah you do mention the heathrow 3rd runway where there have been protests during coronavirus you believe that the existential crisis of climate change as well as the importance of trade unions the climate change activism can do something there were overturn a century old colonial legacy. this is this is tricky it's difficult we

say and one of the major maidment that we've seen active in the u.k. is the next thinking about it and i was very critical of that stance from the outset. because they they had they made me implicit nationalism espresso if you like. so they talked about the way that we needed to protect ourselves our children and generations against the threat of climate change maybe they connected nafta rats with climate refugees. so there's a kind of we as we know it is there's been what's been called an unequal ecological exchange to create for all nations so we know we don't we don't waste we extract. liquid natural gas we extract resources and so we police and we you know we replant huge trees in order to carbon emissions right

. so as a result of some of these things that there's this climate catastrophe these i mentioned the cyclon i die and mozambique is one of them. and when and with we're seeing climate. refugees increasingly as you would imagine there's a kind of perfect storm of seat and inappropriate on. climate crisis and. economic instability which is leading to a massive massive and migrate migration and as we know europe in britain has been involved in attempting to soften him and particularly from. southern areas of africa up towards the north and through an insurgency europe. so extension rebellion there and making this connection between climate refugee crisis and the survival of our children and the speaking about it is incredibly nash. this boils

which draws our attention away from the way that we approach used these problems across the global south. and anytime naturalizes our ability to sit sit sit see that that is just somehow either their own faults or it's somehow down to natural disaster somehow that i just happen to be in a position that's that's near its. stability the way our. announce joins onto this site there that you know bricks and call copra taking in all these refugees. we need to look after the by which we mean british people for the continuation are using this kind of thing so i think. i've been quite critical of police reasons i'm sure they'll than i would say they're all internationalist in that the colonial talk james traffic thank you will be back on saturday with one of the world's greatest antiglobalization scholars not given the shiver until then join the

underground by following us on twitter facebook instagram telegram to vincent. imagine picking up a future textbook on the early years of the 21st century what are the chapters called gun violence school shootings homelessness 1st it was my job it was my family. my savings i have nothing i have nothing and it's not like i don't try i look for resources i look for jobs i look for everything i can to make this house. in iowa doing. the road to the american dream paved with dead refugees it's this very idealized image i want. americans look pos to the deaths that happen every single day this is a modern history of the usa. america.

the world is driven by a dream shaped by phone person with those words. the dares thinks. we dare to ask. a dark industry comes to life in los angeles every night. dozens of women sells the bodies on the streets many of them under-age. los angeles police reveal a taste of their daily challenge if you're going to exploit for a child here in los angeles all they were going to come out you see officers going

undercover as 6 workers and customers to fight. in the day's headlines a world health organization find us and best to get in the origins of 19 question the reliability of u.s. intelligence after washington says it wants to conduct its own probe in china. also this hour the european commission president admitting to block was too late in authorizing public vaccines as e.u. states struggle with supply shortages we heard from w.h.o. adviser. it's not a matter of race between countries who should get 1st and each block should get earlier countries and european union need to plan for foreigners population to be covered by a certain period of time. plus told defense team accuse us democrats of turning the country.