idealized image of this older america makes americans look at the cost of the death star how about every single day this is a history of the usa and america. welcome to so you. sure are not humans are neither good or bad it's just life situations that make us behave one way or another we're there but is it true what makes us right is it odd circumstances never the less well i asked philip zimbardo psychologist professor at is it stanford university and author of the famous chant

for christmas here. so there are there psychologist professor emeritus at stanford university and author of the famous stand for prison experiment dr z. it's really great great to have you with us today hi welcome greig's i'm happy to be with you and why we are broadcasting to much to moscow we're broadcasting to moscow and actually all over the world not on the jury me out ok yes we're globe what so less about the famous stanford prison experiment right continues to being one of the best controversial in the history of psychological studies being possible it would visit it range heard it used and by the results saying that the social world imposed on us and external pressures can influence our actions even without us knowing are you saying that humans are powerless against the

circumstances i don't know. what i should mention from the beginning is that on august 14th 2021 in 6 months my study will be 50 years old it will be the 50th anniversary so in fact there are 2 film companies each separately making documentaries about my study and trying to relate it to current events in america police brutality and other things and and brutality and in american prisons so the basic reason for doing the study and the reason it's. most controversial and still important is that it demonstrates the power of social situations and playing roles that can lead healthy good ordinary people to do really bad things in fact to be could do creatively

evil things in oh in that situation so my study which it is part of the whole social psychological approach to say we overestimate how much our behavior is influenced by free will by our choice by our personality and we minimize in fact that we're always in different social situations and that in those situations those situations bring out the best or worst in us so that's that's the main main thing now i should say when you say controversial. there's been a lot of. people critiquing the study actually recently but the reason they are critiquing it is they discovered in quote. things in my study but way where they discover it is everything in my experiment is available on the stanford historical archives all 14 hours of videos 30 hours of audio knows every single record is

there and and stanford has digitized it and they make it available to anyone and i want any media and so when they say they discovered it they discovered what i put there. ok so let's go step by step. let me ask you this does absolutely anyone can fall prey to circumstances do atrocious things if the situation implies that other words is there a potential addles apeman in any of us or does one have to have a certain inclination to it. well i mean again the situation. ceases doesn't say every what it says that most people most of the times can fall prey to situational forces. and and but most of the time those situational forces are good i mean they are. we are in families we are in

schools we are staying home because of the pandemic but again in many times the situation changes and there are revolutions in every country including russia including before in america now actually. january 6th americans did horrendous things attacking the capital killing killing american civilians killing american policeman. said so. so so the situation message is take that one example. and january 6th and the world saw thousands of american citizens attacking the capital going to attack the congressional leaders who were about to certify that trump lost the election and biden won the election and trump who is now really like

a lunatic still saying no he won the election he actually told those people go and protest and you know essentially what he said is by all means necessary well that now gives them permission to do things they ordinarily would not so here's a very powerful man he had been the president of the united states for 4 years also powerful because he's a billionaire and he is now telling. let's say ordinary good people to do evil things and many of them did it now again if you are there maybe you just went to protests and now you're caught up in this mud people all around you yelling and cursing and screaming that you get caught up in that situation and when you're in that situation. your usual normal rational analysis gives way to being part of the mob being part of. the crowd so that's that's the mob

mentality all right. if you once said actually that giving people power and anonymity is the recipe for disaster power abuse seems to be as old as humanity itself and you've just given us example how can you explain to them psychological point of view that humans tend to abuse power when given one this it have to do with exploring the boundaries of our own nature like how far can i go how far can i push it or is it something else you know that's a very good point is that. we need we all of us need a certain amount of power to survive i mean. in a broad sense need the power of speech to say what you need need the power bishan to see where you're going but again there are people who get blind there people who

lose the ability to talk. and so sometimes we also need physical strength. to to oppose an attacker. so we need we need to have a number of skills abilities talents and and and active brain in order to deal with everyday challenges. and and usually most people most of time are a rational be kind and caring. starting right now but not always there are parents who abuse their children their husbands who abuse their wives and for apparently during the pandemic it's been much worse it's much more physical and verbal spouse abuse of husbands against wives but if we get back to to our original question of. the power of power over human nature do you do

you and wait makes you do things that it makes you do or do you agree that there's this thing about the ultimate test say money and power and if you pass those 3 and if you stay and intact human being without abusing others with your same money or power that means that you are just like a really strong ultimate human jihad member that yeah well again many rich people. use that money to make life better for other people they set up foundations to give money like william gates soros and others so that they use their money and power. and the fame just gives them attention so that that they can use that in really positive ways to change the world where if you disciplinary middle class person you donate a few dollars to a charity that doesn't change anything now it's the other rich man in america he i

think is the richest man that we're on that jeff bezos who started amazon. he has not done anything up to now a constructive anything outro mystic he just courted all that money and now he's stepping down from being the head of head of the amazon and the question is is he going to start charitable foundations to give away some of his money to do good for the world you know so money corrupts power corrupts absolute power could corrupt but not necessarily. it's it's the question is. indifferent what is the limits of that so it's like when there's a revolution. all revolutions are by a small group of people who say that the current. the current and people who are running the government are corrupt are in an act and they they can do a better job but but as we know from all many many russian

revolutions that. when the once good people come in they get they often get seduced into evil things as well corrupt things professor we're going to take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue talking to philip zimbardo psychologist professor emeritus at stanford university and author of the danish stanford prison experiment stay with us. small seemed wrong wrong wrong just don't call. me old but yet

to shape out these days comes to educate and in gains from an equal betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. is your media a reflection of reality. in a world transformed. what will make you feel safe. isolation or community. are you going the right way or are you being led so. direct. what is true what is faith. in a world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the

depths. or remain in the shallows. a dark industry comes to life in los angeles every night. dozens of women sells their bodies on the streets many of them under-age. los angeles police reveal a taste of their daily challenge no if you're going to exploit our child here in los angeles there we're going to come out you see officers going undercover as 6 workers and customers to fight the 6 trade. was a pandemic no certainly no borders and the flight into nationalities. has emerged we caught up with the we do a back seat the whole world needs to be. judged

. commentary crisis with this system things. we can do better we should be. everyone is contributing way but we also know that this crisis not go on forever the challenges create the response has been masked so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together.

we're back with philip zimbardo psychologist professor i'm right is that stanford university author of the famous stanford prison experiment foster if situation makes people do bad things to each other. and they conform or at least do not rebel can really judge those people on account of not being here is i mean the majority of people aren't mate for he really yes i mean i'm not like that i know for sure that's the definition of heroism it's a unique qualities in it it's like being mad at your kids for a day i'm not being geniuses or some of them and what i've done recently is to turn around i orientation 180 degrees and essentially in the last chapter of my book the lucifer effect the subtitle is understand he had good people can turn evil i did i flipped it to say is it possible for ordinary people

any of us to become heroes question mark now for a civil war we have to challenge the usual definition of heroes are an extraordinary people who gave their whole life to moral cause. mother teresa martin luther king nelson mandela. and fury these are the names that pop into your mind. but on the other hand. it's ordinary people who help on this now so my definition is a hero is anyone who is willing to come to the aid of someone in need. to help them help then in the when they are in need and they do it sometimes there's a personal risk. that he is helping somebody in an accident.

and you could get hurt as well or in some cases you blow the whistle so here is also whistleblowers you work in a company and you realize. the company is a corrupt fraudulent they cheating people out of money and you blow the whistle you go public well you know that you're going to lose your job or your 7 definitely not going to get promoted but still willing to do it so heroes are ordinary people who take extraordinary action to make the world better for either individual or for many for many individuals and so again but my pro i have a program i started called the heroic imagination project in san francisco and now it's global were in 12 countries around the world not yet in russia i hope i hope i get invited to russia and i will present my program but but the program is to teach people how to to understand social situations i give them all the

knowledge i have in interest the lessons with videos with a question answer with. critical thinking approach programs and we have evidence that it works it reduces bullying and reduces prejudice and increases leadership and so i mean i'm excited the program is out 10 years old and we have it's been. in america but now in hungary in poland in italy in czech republic in many many places. so dr z. we are very conforming social species and we usually go along with the crowd because you know that's how nature made us and standing out is a terribly anxiety provoking think but this is exactly what heroic behavior is about standing right out saying no when others say yes and vice versa would that be

to far fetched to say that here is a man on call from his and that it acquires are in fact in contradiction with human nature well i would say that for most of us. phrases we go along to get along we try to be agreeable if we have a difference of opinion we we come in we bargain we come halfway but sometimes we're in situations where but we see is someone or some group are harming of this and no one is defending those others and so this is so heroes 1st of all i mean potential heroes in a funny way have to come social psychologist little doctors east many a they have to analyze a situation saying what's happening here. but what is wrong.

what like what needs to be done in order to correct it do i have the ability to make that correction and am i'm willing to take a risk to be the one to do that be the one to challenge corruption be the one to help somebody who has been in an accident. and and so so so what i'm saying is we all have the potential we don't we all have the potential to be compassionate to be empathic and what i'm saying is that most of us egocentric we always say you know what's in it for me we always say you know i don't want to do anything which will harm my reputation which you know i could lose my job i could get hurt and heroes are socio centric heroes always think what can i do to make life better for you. and now the idea is suppose everybody so i sat in the world so

i'm working to help make life better for you at the same time you are working to make life better for me. and you know in so we can in the course of a life normal healthy powerful middle aged people become old. because time passes and when you become old there are many things you know can no longer do that used to be able to do when you were younger. and now so old people need younger people to help them survive not in a war but every day so again and hero is somebody who during the pandemic will buy groceries for a neighbor go out of their way to call a neighbor to say i'm going to go to i'm going to go to the grocery store and buy you anything you need it doesn't mean you're going to pay for it necessarily except if they're poor and have no money then and you were. in quote loan them something but heroes are always thinking about what can i do to make your life better.

and then when i do it i feel pride i feel that i did something good today our culture tradition recedes as this image of heroes who are a real health and health guardsman legged creatures with supernatural powers real life heroes and exists no doubt about that but is it still seen as exceptional behavior rather than ordinary one i mean does that mean those conventional images of heroes need to be maybe reviewed replaced yes well me. saying the conventional. everything every nation has conventional heroes but if you think about them more often than not they are military leaders people men almost always on horses all the statues you see again all over moscow and i

guess that in america you see men on horses with as a sword or a gun you know who won a battle so they they protected your your nation but how do they do it they did it by killing the enemy so that's one definition of heroes that is they preserve the freedom of their people by being willing to die in battle against a powerful enemy. but but but a we want it we want to stop having wars we want to stop having. adversaries we want it we want that's what the united nations was about that's when you nest go is about trying to create a world filled with peace and understanding so therefore we're not going to have those military heroes anymore and in fact what we really want to do is have ordinary people not on a horse and horse but statues ordinary people sitting in

a park bench helping a child helping a blind child you know. to walk to see things all right dr z. we often see heroes invest something that implies self-sacrifice self-sacrifice goes against self preservation and should mechanism wired in us the genetic level so why do we still do you heroic actions in your opinion if it means going against our evolutionary purpose. well but it's you i mean. usually that the kind of everyday ordinary actions i'm talking about not threatening to your life clearly we believe in self preservation. but in fact. the carnegie foundation has and every day the carnegie foundation in america on is heroes in almost every case they're heroes of people who have

died helping out this these are and these are always soldiers police men. etc and so that's one kind of hero that so these are people who do just opposite of what you said instead of being focused on how how can i preserve my life in a battle they say what can i do to help my my fellow partner partner and so in many cases they are willing to die protecting someone else protecting someone else in there pretty soon in their battalion and somebody i'm saying my sense of heroism is not that at all it's that. event you're not going in you know going to take a bullet rather than have to have somebody else die for you what you going to do is going to make the world better not in terms of helping them survive statistically

but survive psychologically to live socially. to. you know. to make the world better for other people is a simple thing getting a compliment i mean so so it should be in every situation you go into in every and every school every party every bit and when you go to the office the 1st thing you is in your mind what can i do to make somebody in this room feel special well you get a compliment you say wow i really like like your hair style and it goes so and your blouse go so well with your hair. and then then i would say wait you buy that blouse i like i like to get one for my wife so. when people when people get a compliment they always feel good about it especially it's justifiable we stop thinking about what we can do to show our appreciation to someone else our parents

or teachers to our bosses for making our lives better. such as eating session a pleasure talking to you thank you very much for this wonderful insight and i wish you all that. you know based on. the strength. after to seek. help so. how do you define the word reality something like this the state of things as they actually exist as opposed to an idealist state or notional ideal to say the least

this is a philosophical definition let's throw in politics is there one political reality can and should one be enforced with this in the end use a ministry of truth. new gold rush is underway and gone up thousands of ill equipped workers are flocking to the gold fields hoping to strike it rich here's a good day our 1st day oh those that work children are torn between gold. my family was very poor i thought i was doing my best to get back to school which side will have the strongest appeal. seems wrong why don't we all just don't call. me old yet to

shape out these days to come out ahead and engagement because of the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart. just to look for common ground. 3 headed vigilante coming our way the bond vigilantes are coming back. drug dealers shorting bonds now. is going to try to force. the 93 so. he's talking about gold and so others just a gold. coin vigilantes i've been here since 2009. they're growing exponentially now and the price of course as it goes under a trillion in this year 2021 it'll be worth more than 4 trillion so those are the 3

headed vigilantes that are now coming for the dollar the dollar is just sitting ducks. the headlines in r.t. russia's foreign minister warns that moscow is ready to end ties with the european union but only if the e.u. imposes new sanctions on key sectors of the country's economy. we don't want to distance ourselves from the international community but we need to be ready for this if you want peace for. a member of the world health organization just back from the coronavirus the center in chinatown says that humans probably didn't catch the virus from bats but from other animals instead and that rage came from scratch and that being forced on the country that is the renowned paris to diversify performances after complaints from black dances we hear from a french.