in the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then. china fires back at the can all of the states off the washington question the findings of a world health organization probe into the origins of the corona virus. with the u.k. still in locked out new rules now obliged people's property and from the red list of countries to quarantine for 10 days in selected hotels but concerns remain over the plans implementation. and a conservative journalist is harassed and assaulted as she covers black lives matter protests to get her take on what life is like a reporter in a divided america. i feel that being conservative. now very physically threatening to journalists up next cross talk looks at the reality check russia e.u. relations go last week at the scene when i will return and i was taught all of the

nikki are and will be here in the studio with you to get you up to speed on the morning headlines to join us again the. lowing welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle russia e.u. relations got a reality check last week russia's foreign minister said again love it off read the riot act to the blog also washington never ceases to lecture the world about democracy and the rule of law how are both doing in the u.s. .

to discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guest marcus papadopoulos in london is a historian and analyst and author of the new book a rise. rossi had to make china russia to world politics in budapest we have george samueli he's a podcast or at the gavel which can be found on you tube and rumpled original ink 1st up rules in effect that means you can jump any time you want and i was happy she is going to budapest 1st george we saw something quite remarkable at the end of last week we had the high commissioner from the european union with the foreign policy portfolio basically got his blank handed to him here in moscow the tone of this relationship despite my lot of relationship has changed remarkably what accounts for it george well i think the russians have really got fed up with the attitudes of both the european union and the united states where they think

that they can get some kind of agreements and deals with the russians a whole host of things that they want agreements with. the russians of so said look if you want to work with us on issues of energy on issues of vaccine issues of migration drugs and so on we have to to work with you but if you want to play these games and constantly use us as a football and say well you know you're interfering our elections you will be hind a coup in montenegro. you know you were poisoning people in our streets using chemical weapons on our streets and then what about in the valley if you want to play that game then we're not interested you know we got our own agreements with our own relationships with other countries we'll go to do it so he pretty much said to your alan through him to europe what do you want you what do you want to working relationship or do you want confrontation we're ready for that and i think that

this came as a shock because at the europeans are just not used to this kind of talk in russia and i think there is now a new tone. coming from moscow you know mark is this something that we've all noticed over the last few years i think it's been only since the overthrow of the legal government in general been to in the spring of 2014 this really overt hostility and we have to point out the bike and ministration is the 1st incoming american administration that has not talked about reset since the end of the cold war so very hostile very hardline it's unclear how that's going to be translated into policy but when burrell it was in one month in moscow and rushes to her being lectured lecturing his hosts he seemed to have drawn the line with the russians and it's the end of quote unquote strategic patience i don't really like that phrase because it's very cliche but it may be appropriate in this case go ahead. oh

a surrogate laugh rovs exceptionally stuntwoman so you're in union has evidently a sense shockwave sprouts brussels because the european union's leaders understand a laugh rose on in effect the words of lad amir peretz an author who say left off is not responsible for russian foreign policy making bad lies we've made coats and now it is not in the interests for the vast majority of e.u. member states for there to be a further deterioration in relations between the e.u. and of us a federation i say the vast majority of e.u. member states would not want a further deterioration. and there are some the both $68.00 and poland and those are merely conduit for western aggression against russia but ever since 2 fouls and 14 western companies for example construction companies and agricultural

companies have been severely could say words in their ability to export to russia and they have suffered extensively as a result of that now if the european union does impose additional sanctions on russia then russia inevitably will take a very direct response who is going to suffer more its will be those companies within the european union for example agricultural companies in spain italy and greece who are no longer able to export. to russia so then we have to ask the question. who really benefits from it it's a further deterioration a further worsening of relations change brussels and most very clearly not the european union with the exception of the states opponents on a subcommittee pizza that it is america. who benefits because the americans and the

british do not want an improvement in relations between the e.u. and russia and georgia marcus is absolutely right that's why these representatives in brussels they talk the language of values because values has almost nothing to do with policy and if you are something about policy and you going to have to start making choices brussels doesn't really want to make any choices right now and i think that there is an echo coming from washington and in london and of course you know when you can stand to national interests i would say that this hurts the national in the block interest for the e.u. but russia has gotten used to this the same funny i mean if you don't if you don't want to dance we don't have to dance if you don't want to have a dialogue we don't have to have a dialogue but if you don't want to have a dialogue stop talking to me then. that exactly sums it up perfectly. because the point about the values is that it's always one way traffic so when the

europeans talk about values it means our right to interfere in russia's internal affairs our right to lecture russia on their shortcomings 1 and when 2 the russians don around and tell us well we're not really very happy about the way you've been treating julian the sunset all around 2 you know what about all of the people who are protesting against the code restrictions and who get beaten over the head with truncheons ok how about the people in the spain organizing the referendum in catalonia being sentenced to prison for 10 years when the russians turn around and say well we're not happy about that then there's just shock and indignation so this business of values is itself of the hypocrisy because of that the russians have said if you want to discuss human rights issues the. it

has to be you know 2 way traffic you know you know you can lecture us about our shortcomings we know lecture you about your shortcomings but italy the values is there is a silly idea foreign policy because foreign policy is supposed to be about securing the interests for your own peoples and of course the interest of the peoples of europe as marcus has pointed out is in trade and economic agreements and they're the russians have been very reliable in this and it is the europeans who have been very unreliable something the it was pointed out by love pro in constant is only sign an agreement and then they stop talking about sanctions as onus of the russians or say well we kind of fed up with this don't you know with which do you want if you want a confrontation we're ready for a confrontation you know we're actually in pretty good shape now militarily strategically now we've with the new the split the vaccine with shah ahead of

everyone else well but i think a right for comfort if you want to work with us on a whole range of issues we're ready for that but we're not going to have this kind of batting to and fro that the europeans and the americans want that that's just not going to happen any more. from this side of the. discussion here is that you know this but by concert we are rating russia bring in her being in the domestic politics of european countries and a united states and the same time the same admissions are willing rushed out to run in support system and how to apply the law to individuals i'm speaking of mr no bomb me so so if for example lodbrok would say yes you know we will read the volley but then that would be breaking russian law so this is what they want they want russia to respect the rule of law but by but when you do that you must break the law because we like this one individual and by the way about mind your own business markets. yes we hear european politicians and journalists together of

a council of america and britain saying about the russian authorities have sentenced alexina valmy to a custodial sentence know who are russian coupes of the law has found alexina valmy guilty and has given him a custodial sentence but the problem in all of this is that alexina valley is neither here nor that certainly he has no standing in russia when it comes to western powers the e.u. america and britain they understand in private that he has no stand in amongst the russian people however he is a useful tool to use against russia in maintaining that this argument's this theory of. arguments that russia stance against freedom

and the rule of law and democracy and when it comes to the rippin union i am very confident pizza that if you sat down with the vast majority of cases german and french from the make it an aston do you really want a worsening in relations between the european union and russia on account on accounts of never i don't believe they would say yes i believe that it is de americans because america of course is the outside dominant force in the european union the e.u. is a strategic partner for america the e.u. coordinates its fall policy and defense policy making with the americans alexina valley is a tool that the americans are using against the russians and i believe the americans i hope to scotch no strings or the germans have kept so they counsel i will not allow that to happen so that is a good indication that the e.u.

will try. draw each of the 5 you merican stones from italy the americans all the dominant force in the e.u. that's the problem you know george and he the argument coming out of washington that we are trump and now we're leading into the bite when was that run russia will have them ally in the dominate influence over europe's energy policy but i mean if you step back and say well no you won't be the europeans you want the europeans to buy your american liquefied natural gas so you will be reliant upon american but he's an american boy and policy i mean if you step back here it's pretty obvious that obviously a big mirror i mean gassed is a company that has shareholders that is invested billions of dollars into a pipeline that was in agreement with the german government ok the russians want to return and they are best mint why in the world with a kind of light wind that would be cutting that would be spiting themselves i mean the logic of this argument doesn't have made any sense whatsoever go ahead though

if that's exactly right it was the germans who came to the russians and said we want to do this deal because the old pipeline that went through ukraine was unreliable because the ukrainians was stealing the gas and this led to continual interruptions of the gas flow to europe and there's a jones who came to the russians and wanted this will turn to route for the natural gas europe as a signal of me not to go to a hard break now or break you know what is a real news state or. the british and american governments have often been accused of destroying lives in their own interest or you see in this these techniques is the state devising methods to him to essentially destroy the personality of an individual. by scientific. this is how. undocked his theories were allegedly used in psychological

warfare against prisoners deemed a danger to the state that was the foundation for the method of psychological interrogation psychological courtroom the cia disseminated within the u.s. intelligence community and worldwide among allies for the next 30 years and other victims say they still live with the consequences today. seemed wrong. just don't call. me. yet to say proud. because as a kid and engagement equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart. just on the phone common ground.

in the 1920 s. and thirty's several 100 african-americans moved to the soviet union and many of their descendants still live in russia. again at the risk of no no rush cross the upper. woolsack on things on their way. back home black american suffered from racism and a complete lack of prospects. is that columbus month the real. one by else a store or by doing. so they decided to leave everything behind and start a new life in a country about which they knew almost nothing at all some of the troops who were through during the night. around great crowds. to move a few you're going to call. you and now almost a 100 years later history is repeating itself my great grandfather george time went

to russia. probably the worst time to go anywhere why not me. when i come here. welcome back to crossfire were all things are considered unheeded lavelle remind you we're talking about some real news. let's go back to george in budapest george where in they post impeachment environment year and as i said in my introduction of the start of the program that washington likes to lecture the world about democracy in the rule of law but will in washington snippets i was going to waste you know precious hours of my life watching their change a record here i mean age the rule of law. was flaunted here and in about democracy

well the way i look at it dispassionately from a constitutional point of view it wasn't donald trump that was on trial it was his supporters go ahead george that exactly right the whole point of this impeachment suck us was to denigrate those supporters to teach them a lesson never never never vote for populists such as donald trump every game and that's all it was a solo there was not even the minimal pretense all of a judicial process 2 there was no evidence collected or you know we we don't even know the barest 2 minimum about what actually happened on january the 6th i wasn't even a part of proper investigation of the events of general say it was no attempt to present any kind of a wholesale relationship between anything that donald trump they all said and what happened on capitol hill they rush this through you know trump's

a little boy is one of president. trump was unable to answer any of the charges and then they dumped it into the hands of the senate and they gave they really had no evidence after all it was really. just an attempt to constantly bash trump denounce him and trotting out all of the try it cliches from the pos for yes and it was quite shocking to be honest to see every single democrat voting to the peach drum and then to convict him every single one i mean and you know that if trump is still president and it is going to be no the impeachment in 2 weeks' time every single democrat will fall for it if it be true that so if this has no connection with anything at all that trump was done we'll set it's just. a political tool you know to the bashers supporters and it's clearly it is. violation of the

constitution because it's clearly not what the framers intended when they put in the calls about impeachment really they specified that it had to be something very extreme and it's not just a matter of you know the political opponents say i don't like him i like his views so let's just impeach him you know marcus or me this whole impeachment sharod was added to the it's real point was the beginning of something is to normalise the vilification of half the electorate this is is that is the beginning ok we're talking about domestic terror laws we're getting down into political purity tests right now we the 1st step we saw was the kind of cleansing of the troops securing the capitol from what no we're never told that there's a hearing from but i mean this is this is this was the opening salvo and george is already said it is to make sure that no populous from the left or the right ever gets close to power again so not another trump not another bernie sanders ok but if

you look at a lot of trump's supporters and a lot of bernie sanders supporters have a lot in common that's what they're afraid of they're afraid of that ok the they're using this political rhetoric to keep that divide there that's why they desperately need trump in the political conversation they desperately need that is much as they vilify him go ahead mark be impeachment trial was nothing more than a politically motivated it's false firstly joe biden has filed suit the friend america's fresh out of office say yes he was quite content to save the american constitution violates it because the american constitution clearly states that an american presence who is no longer in office can be impeached secondly if donald trump was. guilty of inciting his supporters

to storm capitol hill and then how many democratic politicians last year were guilty of inciting the b.l.m. mobs to ransacked american towns and villages to physically and bilious americans including the black people how many american businesses shot straight since were destroyed by b.l.m. malts know this as you have said and as george has said the impeachment trial was all about and since ensued impose or further impose the little status quo in america and therein lies the danger of the future danger for the very unity of america because i believe that not says we're speaking now of some time in the future but the union will be in serious trouble under less

decisive clinical action is taken against the likes of all people such as joe biden and nancy pelosi because based people. but they proclaim to believe it in diversity and to being respectful yet they do not tolerate different opinions they do not tolerate difference arguments bay have one opinion they have one ideology and their pet sense insert impose that on the whole of america and that is a very dangerous states face and it just exposes as ludicrous and not since the notion that america is the most democratic is the most free country in the world it is absolute nonsense is nothing more or it is certainly emerging as nothing more than a little tyranny yanar your. the thing is the b.

you list listen to these the ideological voices from the left about deprogramming we've programmed programming about the big station and all of this is one small problem but these voices fail to address what happens if people resents they don't want to be programmed to deprogram ok because these people again the deplorable idea that we got from hillary clinton is that these the morals they mean have enough intelligence no awareness agents that's not true ok and that's the danger that we have right now because people are going to turn to run say who are you what kind of moral authority is facebook or google ok you're not god you're not my church and i don't want to join your cults no head. yes there are the resistance issue is indeed a very serious one which is why they want to pass legislation

about domestic terrorism and why they want to make an example of the people who are involved in the capitol hill disturbances so you know normally if you look at what really happened you know you would you charge them with breaking and entering. a resisting arrest whatever they want to settle for less they wanted those on except disha conspiracy to overthrow the government all sorts of nonsensical charges so that they can hit their own people who just went into nancy pelosi is dest what his feet are on her desk and took them and amused them below i want to get that guy with some charges then said 25 years in prison. and of course you know it's not just wanted out you know everyone who was involved 'd in the black lives matter arrives last year they they were. i get

a free pass so it's a matter of trying to intimidate the population and say if you have the wrong views and your engaged in anything that we deem illegal you're going beyond decades 1 of this you know whose view is we're pro they war i mean it's a way of trying to just intimidate the public and to break the resistance it's untenable here you know you know mark is that these are the same people that peddled today the russian gate hoax for well over 3 years 4 years and they call the rest of us conspiracy theorists ok i mean asking a question is now someone that it can be called a conspiracy theorist ok and we question the hoax from day one on this program from day one we said it was a hoax we were proven absolutely correct one of the very few news outlets that watched that story continued with and to the very very end but still it lives on

and the the what they want to do is they want to take the tragic events accountable and they want to create their own conspiracy against half the room half the republican. the problem is that. the average american and the average briton did not show sufficient interest though actually in many cases no interest whatsoever in the lies which the american governments and the british governments were exports in about us afraid for example russia interfering in the internet or face a lot just america but also britain why because those americans and britons for well it doesn't concern us the problem is that they didn't actually consent because those people who are who are peddling these lies are actually the same people who pose a terrible inferno friends to americans and british people so this just have

a look at the nature of these little politicians and jennison america and brits and they don't just pose a tremendous threat to women's rights they pose a tremendous frets to the very identity of women they pose a terrible threat to children they are coolly for children to be taught in schools how to masturbate they are head in little boys as young as 78 and 9 years of age if you do not feel happy in life then it is probably because you should not really be a boy and you should have sex changing surgery this is the nature of the people who lost telling us that we must respect diversity we must resist we must be progressive no they have hijacked the was equality what it is to be progressive diversity theys paypal and not just frets to

democracy in america and in britain they are all 4 or 4 frets to morality in by the american president. they hooked a nation up here i mean children are not allowed to drink alcohol or buy alcohol you're not allowed to drive a car until you're a certain age but you're not looking to let children under the age of 10 make life changing decisions about their body when they're not even. really aware of their entire human ness and that age here it's a real shame and where we're going to really regret it we're going to read this are our society and our culture is really going to regret playing with children's lives like as i write gentlemen that's all the time we have want to thank my guests in budapest and in london and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are see you next time remember.

join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm showbusiness i'll see.