i'm after it had to you're watching another lot them additional going underground 18 years since the largest peace demonstration in history when up to 30000000 people in 600 cities worldwide protested against the nato nation war in iraq orchestrated in this country by labor prime minister tony blair in part 2 we'll hear from the rapper looking to replace arguable iraq war supporters of the current as london mayor in may but 1st let's speak to the award winning author of a new book on political lying peter oborne is the author of the assault on truth boris johnson donald trump and the emergence of a new moral barbarism and he joins me now from wilcher peter thanks so much for coming back on the show you know f. scott fitzgerald said keeping 2 opposing ideas in your head of the same time still functioning that's a 1st rate intelligence how come in this new o.t. the jurors already should walk and chew gum at the same time so. yeah all of his job more than alive then one minute boris johnson is impressing you with his intellect when you are as close colleague the next minute he is this appalling

almost unprecedented liar how do you keep these 2 ideas going in the. well i go through my time working for or instructs who i say merced. or regional genius political mind art i know that deal and also i find a very straightforward colleague sorry totally it's straightforward truly and a kind of liberal internationalists in many ways a nice. liberal internationalists least or 6 so i. try to go to castle. suit for a short screener. you mentioned liberal intervention liberal internationalist and liberal interventionist arguably after his record on yemen the world's worst humanitarian crisis i was you know i went yeah i've been very extensive ottley on

the failure to insert free. you use the fact that we are an older united nations. and to that boris yeltsin didn't just do nothing to help the yemeni people during you know what genocide as far as well of course he would reject there was a lot of aid no i easily been given as well as muslims you know he said he's right there is an aids here and but only if the problem is the british rejection. were to reject the idea of who were injured and to the best station inciting war crimes that the heart of this work is the argument that people should not just law for the person before initial behavior on the part of the british prime minister why why do you think it's so important not to just find or a stone thrown or a funny politician well because he's our prime minister and prime minister is

a very serious joke and if you fabricate the truth then you are the time to analyze the people you're taking away that. right sense one of the cool reasons why democracy needs troops now if you're looking at all talk rhasis kitchen's rusher or sheaves china. eat we get used to the idea of appreciation and that's because there is not. just a chronic system are the same way we have it in person. it operates under true basis if you want to have a democracy and you're going to sell large british people in order to get elected all in order to justify your policies then. then i thought you were stealing the democratic rights but those countries reject the charges they're not democracies and in your book you say that putin's russia and she jinping china

are places where it is a crime not to lie i mean as you do name check in the book of julian assange hunch is a worldwide symbol of from where i'm talking to you of the fact that it is a crime not to lie here in britain. have a law is in jail you know life sort out a great deal. sit on your butt i suppose what i'm getting at here is that your drawing the the ancestry of lying in britain to the left i mean of all people men who is a revered figure as the person who beat the united states after its brutal war on that country you say you know the left for a license to be able to cover up his crimes. i mean why pick on what i think on the what. is the there are 2 different personal logical

traditions there's the left which because it sees itself as more virtuous than the lights believes that it has a license and i have which is honorable to law and to cheat and to deceive in order to make the world a better place i cite the example of soviet russia for instance where they are on lenin or star in which they feel the ends justify the means the rights as a difference is the best of a logical tradition namely that we should have served you cross a street in attempts to make sort of prove the world a newt you know great john way of june is we really need to just pay attention to the things we can affect like telling the truth slightly better be courteous enough friendships and so our people and to making sure again rolls their bellies are 2 different ways of seeing things you mentioned by the way the iraq war

so the left tony blair from a left wing tradition he used that enormous lie about w.m.c. in order to justify the invasion of iraq with calamitous consequences that mr blair again deny that it was 9 burlesque it was a massive stomping on troops justify the war that is an example of what i mean no worries knew what is very frightening as we now have the ruts. using lives in order to win par i mean some of our viewers are going to bork airplanes in your book like in britain we have long prided ourselves that we do things differently do you mean pride your thought you said there's a tradition in britain of these things and you know you have to. 3 knowledge of the 800 year occupation of violin let alone this week the anniversary of the mao in kenya to the bangor family and the lies have been part and parcel of the british

tradition since time immemorial a feudal times to capitalist times who. i cherish over idolatry and i think we should all acknowledge that income unlike other countries of committee krantz us well i'm talking about very specifically is the history of parliament and political discourse in britain. and those 2 things i point to in the book when he made a procedural rights are the other one is the ministerial code both of which explicitly say that ministers representing the government's use who say force and troops on the floor of the house of commons must come back and correct and i don't stray a very great deal of dates so that since mr johnson became prime minister in july it was 2009 as this goes through the roof so i've sent a list of those of the speaker of the house or sent a list of them to mr johnson himself what's in the list of the leader of the

opposition and i sent a list to jacob race not a no response so it's become normal and acceptable to lie it just wasn't your role or some traits it was not permissible to lie on the floor has been so very beast you know give examples of how people 8 ounces or lying on the floor house before until very recently. ok i'm going to go through hand so and from now listen i swear to you readers that leaders also untruths are you know i've done that job and i should happily allow no i'm saying further back at least time in the malaria merge and see the fun in the n.h.s. the korea war ok let's not go back there specifically you've written and we'll get on to the lies that you allege i mean you sent the book to lindsay hoyle the speaker. an ardent supporter of the war in iraq norman fowler of course infamous since since it's in iraq anniversary time fowler of course is in

the in of that or administration that supported saddam hussein. any reply from the speaker in the lords or the commons done hands received any response absolutely these letters of for 2 weeks ago almost no response from the harald no response from the speaker of the lords. and i had a nice letter from caroline lucas the. senior aide the green party are now what about mr johnson's lies it's very hard sue nowhere star he lolis as i showed you only general election systematically jeremy call. you know georgia has got ones that want it to sort of disband the british army or the security services or not since may fabric change state spending triggers of the court date a lot about rex's you know don't you know there are no job no trade barriers for it

since you couldn't one make the case that johnson didn't understand what the outcome of the negotiations were he didn't technically lie about the fact that ireland overthrew agreement that he set if you have a sense that was very telling film in 2 businessmen say you know if you get if somebody says you would ask for documents to do business with do trade with northern ireland so it's mean are 6 knots so that's a lie i mean i mean that some people watching and some people who support war as johnson would say this is there's very little difference to other election campaigns in previous times and the lies against corbin. who would say it was the lies from his own zine about anti semitism the war worse than little lies about spending plans in the name of manifesto anywhere. well this is a. mrs johnson is in a special position because he is the british prime minister. and i think we we if

we have a political leader for a minister who lies to us we are being stripped of our them of our rights as votes and so am i right to concentrates that is why i concentrate on mr johnson you know the example of the lies and i think this is really all points it is i show how they use the course and complicit c. of the mainstream press to smear political opponents so i found this particularly disgusting because i believe that there were many may fail that much of the time as journalists we have a duty to try and do our best so truth but i mean shock horror the profumo affair let alone what happened to the government scientist david kelly in the briefing room which i suppose you had there mark out is important campbell in the blair government i did i want to get on to you because. you were a victim of this complicity you think in the book your 30 year career in mainstream media was ended or once the i wrote i tried to expose johnson's lights out

so we story in the book i try to get various papers the run piece about it and i try to get a chance for to make a programme about ship. can do that but show open democracy to not only so well so nonprofit kind of website and then after that i think last year i wrote 2 pieces of mainstream papers circled mainstream papers you know and that was it and i'm not a want to try to sort of be. beat but it's not your place to be a specific artist lashley or trusts nobody has been it is a very serious point that if someone has established it as you for the hill that is one article that you saw as a pivotal point where the entire firmament of journalism in this country said no that. i just offered pieces all are. also no she's the boss has

been reviewed we have been the guardian of the it so yes it not be but of papers of review of the telegraph it was a review of the associated factors review of the b.b.c. he's not gone yet this is a book document so you have a prime minister of the day it's a bit short on systematic line and uses the mainstream press in order to get many of these rice knoll entirely by the b.b.c. . he thought all these organisations really nice of you to me oh by the way for you . yeah i don't think we should have your own actually clearly those institutions would defend themselves and say there's plenty of robust criticism of boris johnson his team dominic cummings the previous advisor that it's all there it's something that you wrote that was this effectively not. not allowed and

i suppose it's what's not allowed is calling boris johnson a liar. i think that was what was certainly in the 2019 election campaign they were . these 8 these lights went on inspects it. joined jerry very largely during the campaign the guardian did run i should say 2 pieces i think one or 2 pieces by me during the campaign itself in the mirror on the election day rank case but i sense that that's more that's the my loss or us. journalists will stop you there more from the award winning author of this all the untruth after this break. though do you.

know what. machine the center of the beach will store move lower street view of us rule. when you go to the movie. that still has the soul of the. family to keep keep the. l. look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the 1st law show your identification for should be very careful about official intelligence at that point obesity is to trace. evidence here.

take on various chops and with artificial intelligence will summon the demon. the obama must protect its own existence as a mixer. with . welcome back i'm still here with award winning journalist and author of the assault on truth peter oborne we haven't touched trump which is another factor in this amazing amazingly controversial flies a book as regards mainstream opinion you do mention the fact that your recounting

of these lies they will have an effect on other members of the cabinet regime the chancellor of the exchequer because they have to stand up for them but how serious are the issues in this book as regards his dealing with coronavirus as people may realise if you're in britain no if you're what you outside britain you're think britain is a. is the one of the worst hit countries in the world by a long long margin coronavirus. but if you want british media now it's amazing boris johnson has been a great prime minister and his vaccinating the country a par excellence compared to competitors what he does to serve all the british government does this great. for the back seat. great. contacts nation and i think it's look. well i wrote a book. for sort of not much pressure just. and the

i listen particular allies talk during the coronavirus all the full search so they're in the tourists and demick about checking trash. as they didn't hurt immunity situation and compare. mr johnson really with angela merkel he's a very interesting comparison with angela merkel she was so steady she didn't try to heighten a thing up. johnson is the sort of language is inappropriate so excites it far too optimistic and not engaging with the nature of the tragedy if you look at all absolutely crucial sensible pragmatic and johnson is someone halfway between merkel and trump who course was just the facts and he bought it or not since he is probably closer to trump in the in the sense that he doesn't have any doesn't

have a proper respect truth or i'm just. well just finally i mean on the the masses on the people do they care obviously people are reading in watching reading few newspapers. do they care that their politicians are lying to them the birthstone from presiding over are and his readers as the ever ever growing disparities of wealth food banks just where i'm speaking to you do they care are they too busy trying to just live their daily lives to care what's happening i think is a very interesting underlying issue race here has the nature of truth itself change that we lost something very precious in our society a common ground common system of values a common sort of benchmark of troops and all we know moving into

a different world where. there is some sort of tribal just a molecule where the truth is what your site says your service if your if your a if your a label person a left winger that's your truth and the economy great and you just truth truth has become that sense a manifestation of power and the least truly cherished terrified is that of course is what happens in all sorts areas sheets peter oborne thank you and your fault and truth is that now boris johnson launched his political career on the world stage when he became mayor of london now an insurgent candidate rapper drill minister looking to take the role going underground deputy editor charlie cook caught up with him and started by asking about his strategy of backing now the right nor left politics is what is going right in the us is it a grant without having the gender of no gender but your gender people right now night 2000000 of government funding has been to be directed to ensure fair

elections how well for 31000000 of that is the input to what the mayor elections i want to know who all. these private firms and who are going to be the people not position to profit off of a pandemic once again but now with the name of the elections remember lections as as as the device to enable these people to make profit just as we saw with the p.p. just as we saw with so many things from the government coming forward with a good good intention but the intention result in is something negative once again i'm trying to stop this elections dismember elections from being stolen from the people i don't try to make sure that it's democratic and fair we've been proven right no. so and you've been alleging on twitter that your voice in a way is being silenced just how iran are how the mayoral election works and how the pandemics in fact in the riding out we all do is as you can see i'm

following by the guidelines of the government following by the guidelines of well been set however the people that want to vote for me to people that are independents you've got so many people from different backgrounds in this very actions not all that i agree you know trying to say but they all have a voice that's what democracy is and knowing that these people just let myself like i heard sean bailey a conservative guy is in trouble for something about tried to pull this in people's doors and breaking covert guidelines i'm hearing people like pryor rose getting in trouble with the far east for trying to come clean with his campaign bus but yet the budget towards advertisement has gone up from the labor party has gone up for city con in this period i'm see mostly because pollsters we've got guys of cold feet and restrictions but yes a member of the london mayor of london he has a snap chat campaign going on a whole lot in a house this guy is not using i'm hearing is people trying to find out the

information about being in the e.u. and what their rights are he's not using that as an advocacy for his now or even pushing it along that may initiate for him so so all of this amounts to unfair elections and democratic elections and that's why i came into this to do to make it fair oh i'm going to always point out to people you know being rude does a ruse going on and the rules are not when it was a last stand and not a plain day judy will play day and expose the that's why i'm here to do so were you saying is that you're not the only candidate who had trouble i mean see come out of his league deny that he's been part of any sort of malfeasance when it comes to the election draws about your manifesto what separates you from city gun. my manifesto maybe is made for the people and by that people have taken in so many suggestions so many symbols of so many me ins with the people and

a range that all the way through transfer all all the way down to vironment and outs of homelessness that's all the facets are reporting evened out the crime if things that are ugly and taboo and i should be talking about how i know how to help i don't know what is the solution so well i'm good at tackling all of these problems but it's really because i'm part of it and city converse a that he's actually been tackling these issues during the current of his crisis he's presumably got plans to restart london once the coronavirus crisis is over it won't be your plan to kind of restart london. if you an assigned a city call is one in a competent london os the motor is how they feel about these new blockades and every road at each track to go down with city contract to make a greener london into london that is making is making a lot of people really annoyed by the systems that is in implementing 'd without asking the public via even considering the public is it's basically like i said

a dictatorship right now in this economy well under a dictatorship to start the dictatorship this is not a communist country we live in a country where we have got freedom we've got rest to do whatever we want to do and see if the current can't be implemented in what he believes is right for london. and that's what he's doing under the guidelines of kovi so he would say he's challenging a lot of things because we haven't got to say we do not have a fair democratic elections right now i believe personally we're breaking the human rights bills right now that's what i want to look into because we have pro quo what an awful free to right to free elections the high contracting parties undertake the whole free elections at reasonable intervals by secret ballot under the conditions which will in short a free expression of the opinion of the people in the choice of legislation so right now the constituents what conditions have we got to have a democratic process we need to postpone to marry elections and so we have

a more clear understanding of what's going on with the pandemic almost going on with our democracy and see congress buffed trump and he can't learn would you welcome joe biden if you imagine he can plan. well i will control bad and he's just the same snake with a different face it makes no difference to both of the same thought the same political system they both love the same thing it's just another side to the coin is the same coin you spend the same claim to make the same money so it's the same thing it doesn't mean because what he's wearing blue and he's way red what that day a different kettle of fish to sink out of the show if you want to write this is the same man that call away millions in costs or even millions of black men across america for pay crimes take it away from them that they're from their families breaking whole communities century in mid century in the market for himself so they can profit off of private private funding of

a private prisons why would i ever welcome as a lawn to mess somebody that has a city that damaging a community and on a generation. that man knows what's coming for we'll have to make a one date and let's widen out from london you're the only candidate i've seen has been talking about things like smugly on foreign wars about julian assange and why do you think the you are one of the any candidates is talking about these kind of wider global issues. oh i don't intend to just talking with these things because i think out injustice where i see i don't pick and choose i see an injustice i speak out and i don't have like i said an agenda i don't have legion says we've big corporations. governing bodies don't reason maybe compound policy makers as well the same situations that judy in a song and people a seat of plates an injustice and that is just merely trying to highlight to the world in justice he's not

a whistle blower he was not actually chelsea manning but yet he's condemned he's the one that is put on trial well i mean this man publicly hangover and everybody's watching it happen yeah michel i see understand the ethics of a robot understand the ethics of the world economy i understand the ethics of what's going on in the well i don't understand the players and he's trying to make a change and is definitely not going to make a change for my people can survive with i'm not of 3 years or 4 years a city called well people die i want that to happen again and would deny those things journalists i thank you. gentlemen to speak to going on the ground deputy had johnny cook then after the show went back on saturday evening but not rejoined the studio jones founder of britain's past major newspaper which is that until saturday he would talk to us social media.

join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm showbusiness i'll see that. the british and american governments have often been accused of destroying lives in their own interest or you see in this these techniques is the state devising methods to him to essentially destroy the personality of an individual. by scientific. this is how one doctor's theories were allegedly used in psychological warfare against prisoners deemed a danger to the state that was the foundation for the method of psychological interrogation psychological quarter of the cia disseminated within the u.s. intelligence community and worldwide among allies for the next 30 years and other victims say they still live with the consequences today.

child trafficking and forced labor those are the allegations followed in our lawsuit against some of the world's largest chocolate producers we head disturbing testimony. and he says but yoko were not given any of those help visible scars from machete accidents. such course declares the government's covert curfew to be a legal ruling that ministers misused emergency powers. french lawmakers approved a 90 separatism bill which critics say would unfairly target muslims and opponents to the legislation had been rallying for days in paris. and as u.s. democrats announced plans for a $911.00 style commission.