join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to get out of the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then. i'm after attaching your watching another log jam edition of going underground 18 years since the largest peace demonstration in history when up to 30000000 people in 600 cities worldwide protested against the nato nation war in iraq orchestrated in this country by labor prime minister tony blair in part 2 we'll hear from the rapper looking to replace arguable iraq war supporters of the current as london

mayor in may but 1st let's speak to the award winning author of a new book on political lying peter oborne is the author of the assault on truth boris johnson donald trump and the emergence of a new moral barbarism and he joins me now from wilcher peter thanks so much for coming back on the show you know f. scott fitzgerald said keeping 2 opposing ideas in your head of the same time still functioning that's a 1st rate intelligence how come in this new order to yours for a. second job so. yeah all of his job was not alive then one minute boris johnson is impressing you with his intellect when you were his close colleague the next minute he is this appalling almost unprecedented. how do you keep these 2 ideas going in this book. well i go through in the book my time working for parts johnson who i say is the merced gifted or original genius political mind i had i

never had to deal with and also i find a very straightforward colleague so i wrote totally as straightforward probably and a kind of liberal internationalists in many ways a nice kleck 6 liberal internationalists in these politics so i. try to go to puzzle out what has happened to the boris johnson we now have in dynamics. you mention liberal intervention liberal internationalist and liberal intervention is that arguably after his record on yemen the world's worst humanitarian crisis i was you know i went yeah i've been very extensive oddly on the failure rates are 2 in surgery. you use the fact that we are an older united nations. and to that boris yeltsin didn't just do nothing to help the yemeni people during you know what genocide as far as

well of course he would reject there was a lot of aid no i easily been given as well as muslims you know he said he's right in his late eighty's urine but only in the problem is the british rejection. to reject the idea of what will it depended investigation inside the war crimes that the heart of this work is the argument that people should not just law for a person before initial behavior on the part of the british prime minister why why do you think it's so important not to just find boris johnson or a funny politician. well because he's our prime minister. prime minister it's a very serious show. and if you fabricate the truth then you are lying in light of the people you're taking away that democratic rights that's one of the cool reasons why democracy needs troops now if you look here it's

also crysis 2 chainz rusher or sheaves china eat we used to the idea of application and matter because there is not. a chronic system are the same way we have it in person. it operates in a different basis if you want to have a democracy and you're going to sell lies the british people in order to get elected or that in order to justify your policies then. then i get you are stealing the democratic rights of the voters country reject the trio's they're not democracies and in your book you say that putin's russia and she jinping china are places where it is a crime not to lie i mean as you do name check in the book of julian assange hunch is a worldwide symbol of our from where i'm talking to you of the fact that it is a crime not to lie here in britain. is in jail because you know life

stirred up a great deal. i think on your program but i suppose what i'm getting at here is that your drawing the the ancestry of lying in britain to the left i mean of all people men who is a revered figure is the person who beat the united states after its brutal war on that country you say you know the left for a license to be able to cover up his crimes. i mean why pick on what i think on the what. is the there are 2 different person the logical traditions there's the left which because it sees itself as more virtuous than the lights believes that it has a license and i have which is honorable to lie to cheat and to deceive in order to

make the world a better place i cite the example of soviet russia for instance where they were on lenin or star in which they felt the ends justify the means the rights as a difference is the best of the logical tradition namely that we should have search you cross a street in attempts to make sort of prove the world a new you know great john way of june is we really need to just pay attention to the things we can affect like telling truths like the better be courteous enough friendships and so our people and to making sure again rolls their bellies are 2 different ways of saying things you mentioned by the way the iraq war so the left tony blair from a left wing tradition he used that enormous lie about w.m.c. in order to justify the invasion of iraq with calamitous consequences that mr blair again deny that it was 9 burlesque it was

a massive stomping on troops justify the war that is an example of what i may know what is new what is very frightening zwi not the rights using law rights in order to win i mean some of our viewers are going to bork at the lines in your book like in britain we have long prided ourselves that we do things differently do you mean pride your thought you said there's a tradition in britain of these things and you know you have to. 3 knowledge of the 800 year occupation of violin let alone this week the anniversary of the mao in kenya to the bangor family and the lies have been part and parcel of the british tradition since time immemorial a feudal times to capitalist times who. i shy show my knowledge and i think we should all acknowledge that income unlike other countries of committee krantz us well i'm talking about very specifically is the history of parliament and political

discourse in britain. and those 2 things i point to in the book when he made a procedural right arm the other one is the ministerial code both of which explicitly say that ministers representing the government's use who say false untruths on the floor of the house of commons must come back and correct and i don't stray a very great deal of date so that since mr johnson became prime minister in july it was 2090 the number of full sorts on met by missed the job of prime minister and his ministers are going through the roof so i sent a list of those of the speaker of the house or senate a list of them to mr johnson himself present a list of the leader of the opposition and i sent a list to jacob race not a no response so it's become normal and acceptable to lie it just wasn't your role or some traits it was not permissible to lie on the floor or hassle very beast you

know give examples of how people 8 ounces for lying on the floor house before until very recently. ok i'm going to go through hand so and from now listen i swear to you readers that leaders also untruths are you know i've done that job and i should happily allow no i'm saying further back at least time in the malaria merge and see the fun the n.h.s. the korea war ok let's not go back there specifically you've written and we'll get on to the lies that you allege i mean you sent the book to lindsay hoyle the speaker. an ardent supporter of the war in iraq norman fowler of course infamous since since it's in iraq anniversary time fowler of course is in the in of that or administration that supported saddam hussein. any reply from the speaker in the lords or the common sense received any response absolutely he's let us off for 2 weeks ago almost no response from state harle no response from the

speaker of the lords. and i had a nice letter from caroline lucas the. senior the reports here now what about mr johnson's lies is very hard sue no worse start he lolis as i should join a general election systematically jeremy call. you know georgia has got ones that want it to sort of disband the british army or the security services or not since may fabric change state spending triggers a mystical age a lot about rex's you know don't you know there are no job no trade barriers all the traits we couldn't one make the case that johnson didn't understand what the outcome of the negotiations were he didn't technically lie about the fact that ireland overthrew agreement like that reset if you have a sense that was very telling film in 2 businessmen say you know if you

get if somebody says you would ask for documents to do business with do trade with northern ireland so it's mean are 6 knots that's a lie i mean i mean that some people watching and some people who support war as johnson would say this is there's very little difference to other election campaigns in previous times and the lies against corbin. through would say it was the lies from his own zine about anti semitism that were worse than little lies about spending plans in the labor manifesto anywhere. well this is a. for mrs johnson is in a special position because he is the british prime minister. and i think we we if we have a political leader for a minister who lies to us we are being stripped of our them or of our rights as votes and so i write to concentrates that is why i concentrate on mr johnson you know the example of the lies and i think this is an important points if there is

a show how they use the course and complicit c. of the mainstream press to smear political opponents i found this particularly disgusting because i believe that there were many may fail that much the time as journalists we have a duty to try and do our best so truth but i mean shock horror the profumo affair let alone what happened to the government scientist david kelly in the briefing room which i suppose you had there mark out is important campbell in the blair government i did i want to get on to you because. you were a victim of this complicity in the book your 30 year career in mainstream media was and. once the i wrote i tried to expose johnson's lights out so we story in the book i try to get various papers the run piece about it and i try to get channel 4 to make a programme about ship. can do that but show open democracy to not only so well so

nonprofit kind of website and then after that i think last year i wrote 2 pieces of mainstream papers circled mainstream papers you know and that was it and i'm not a want to try to sort of be. beat but it's not your place to be a specific artist and actually have it trusts nobody has been it is a very serious point that if someone has established it as you for the hill that is one article that you saw as a pivotal point where the entire firmament of journalism in this country said no the. idle often pieces all are. also noticed the thought has been reviewed we have been the guardian of the it so yes it not be but of papers of review of the telegraph it was a review of the associated factors review of the b.b.c.

he's not gone yet this is a book document so you have a prime minister of the day it's a bit short on systematic lie and uses the mainstream press ignores it so. many of these lies nowhere entirely by the b.b.c. . he thought all these organisations really nice of you to me oh by the way for you . yeah i don't think we should have your and actually it clearly those institutions who defend themselves and say there's plenty of robust criticism of boris johnson his team normally coming the previous advisor that it's all there it's something that you wrote that with this effect leigh not. not allowed and i suppose it's what's not allowed is calling boris johnson a liar i think that was what was certainly in the 2090 elections they were. these are these lies went on inspects it. joined very large feature of the chap in

the job you did wrong i should say suitcases i think. by me during the campaign itself in the mirror on the election day right. but i sense that that's more that in my last source. peter will stop you there more from the award winning war through the assault on truth after this break. by the pandemic no certainly no blood is just blood into nationalities. doesn't work with the we don't look like the world needs to be.

judged as coming crisis like this until. we can do better we should know better. everyone is contributing each of our own way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenges created with the response has been massive so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together. the british and american governments have often been accused of destroying lives in their own interest or you see in this these techniques is the state devising methods to him to essentially destroy the personality of an individual. by scientific. this is how one doctor's theories were allegedly used in psychological

warfare against prisoners deemed a danger to the state that was the foundation for the method of psychological interrogation psychological torture of the cia disseminated within the us intelligence community and worldwide among our allies for the next 30 years and how the victims say they still live with the consequences today. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm showbusiness i'll see you then. welcome back i'm still here with award winning journalist and author of the assault on truth peter oborne we haven't touched trump which is another factor in this amazing amazingly controversial flies a book as regards mainstream opinion you do mention the fact that your recounting

of these lies they will have an effect on other members of the cabinet richie's and the chancellor of the extract them because they have to stand up for them but how serious the issues in this book as regards is dealing with coronavirus as people may realise if you're in britain you know if you're what you outside britain think britain is a. or is there one of the worst hit countries in the world by a long long margin coronavirus. but if you want british media now it's amazing worth on to has been a great prime minister and his vaccinate in the country and of compared to competitor well he does deserve all the i mean the british government does deserve a great deal of credit for the good vassie they have and it really well and great i think what along the u. the european common fascination and i think look at that but when i wrote a book about the 1st and i must say i went to press and december and the

i listed particular lies told during the great virus all the false notes so they're only grow virus and demick about checking. those they didn't hurt immunity situation and compare. mr johnson really with angela merkel he's a very interesting comparison with angela merkel she was so steady she didn't try to heighten the not the problem with johnson is the sort of language is inappropriate so excites it far too optimistic and not engaging with the nature of the tragedy if you look at. absolutely cautious sensible pragmatic and johnson is someone halfway between merkel and trump who course was just the facts bought it or not since he is probably closer to trump in the in the sense that he

doesn't have any doesn't have a proper respect truth. well i just. will just finally i mean on the the masses on the people do they care obviously people are reading in watching reading few newspapers. do they care that their politicians are lying to them the birthstone from presiding over or and is breeders as. ever ever growing disparities of wealth food banks just where i'm speaking to you do they care or are they too busy trying to just live their daily lives to care what's happening i think is a very interesting underlying issue race here has the nature of truth itself change that we lost something very precious in our society a common ground common system of values a common sort of benchmark of troops and all we know moving into

a different world where there is some sort of tribal system ology where the truth is what your site says your service if your shoes if your a if your a label person a left winger that's your truth and the economy great because you just truth truth has become that sets a manifestation of power and the least truly scary terrified is that of course is what happens in all sorts very rashid's peter oborne thank you in the assault on truth is out now boris johnson launched his political career on the world stage when he became mayor of london now an insurgent candidate rapper drill minister looking to take the role going underground deputy editor charlie cook caught up with him and started by asking about his strategy of backing now the right will left politics and what's going right in the us into the ground without having the gender of no gender but your gender people right now night 2000000 of government

funding has been to be directed to ensure fair elections however 31000000 of that is the input to what the mayor elections. i want to know who are these private firms and who are going to be the people not position to profit off of a pandemic once again but now with the name of the elections ameri lections as as as the device to enable these people to make profit just as we saw with the p.p. just as we saw with so many things from the government coming forward with a good good intention but the intention result in is something negative once again i'm trying to stop the selections dismember elections from being stolen from the people i don't try to make sure that it's democratic and fair we've been burned right now. and you've been alleging on twitter that your voice in a way is being silenced just how you are not how the mayoral election works and how the pandemics the fact in the. right now we are all indoors as you can see i'm

following by the guidelines of government following by the guidelines of open set however the people that i want to vote for me to people that are independents you've got so many people from different backgrounds in this very actions not all that i agree with you know trying to say but they all have a voice that's what democracy is and knowing that these people just like myself like i heard sean bailey of the conservative guy is in trouble for something about tried to pull this in people's doors and breaking kovi guidelines i'm hearing people like pryor rose getting in trouble with the far east for trying to come clean with his campaign bus but yet the budget towards advertisement has gone up from the labor party has gone up for city con in this period and see most of the current posters we've got guys of cold feet and restrictions but yes a member of the london mayor of london he has a snap chat campaign going on

a whole lot in a house this guy is not using i'm hearing is people trying to find out the information about being in the e.u. and what their rights are he's not using that as an advocacy for his now or even pushing it along that may initiate for him so so all of this amounts to unfair elections and democratic elections and that's why i came into this to do to make it fair oh i'm going to always point out to people you know being rude does a ruse going on and the rules are no wonder also not say and not a plain day judy will play day and expose the that's what i'm here to do so are you saying is that you're not the only candidate who had trouble i mean see come out of his league deny that he's been part of any sort of malfeasance when it comes to election draws about your manifesto what separates you from city gun. my manifesto is made is made for to people and is by the people of taken in so many suggestions

so many symbols of so many me ins with the people and a range that all the way from transfer all all the way down to vironment and outs of homelessness that's all the facets are reporting evened out the crime if things that are ugly and taboo and i should be talking about how i know how to help i don't know what is the solution so well i'm good at tackling all of these problems but it's really because i'm part of it and city congress a that he's actually been tackling these issues during the current of his crisis he's presumably got plans to restart london once the coronavirus crisis is over it won't be your plan to kind of restart london. if you an assigned city call is run in a competent london asked the motorist how they feel about these new blockades on every road at each track to go down with city contracts and make a greener london into london that is making is making a lot of people really annoyed by the systems that is in implementing 'd without

asking the public via even considering the public is it's basically like i said a dictatorship right now in this economy well under a dictatorship to start the dictatorship this is not a communist country we live in a country where we have got freedom you've got residue whatever you want to do and sidique khan called me into the man in what he believes is right for london we ask in london and that's what he's doing under the guidelines of kovi so he would say he's challenging a lot of things because we haven't got to say we do not have a fair democratic elections right now i believe personally what breaking the human rights bills right now that's what i want to look into because we have procol what an awful free to right to free elections the high contracting parties undertake the whole free elections at reasonable intervals by secret ballot under the conditions which will in short a free expression of the opinion of the people in the choice of legislation so right now the constituents what conditions have we got to have

a democratic process we need to postpone to marry elections and so we have a more clear understanding of what's going on with the pandemic almost going on with our democracy and see congress buff trump and he can't learn would you welcome joe biden if you imagine he came to london. well i will control biden is just the same snake with a different face it makes no difference to both of the same put the same political system they both love the same thing it's just another side to the coin is the same coin you spend the same claim to make the same one so it's the same thing it doesn't mean because what he's wearing blue and he's way red what that day a different kettle of fish the same cattle fish i love you want to write. this is the same man that call away. cause or even millions of black men across america for pay crimes taken away from them that they're from their families breaking whole communities century in mid century in the market for himself so they can profit off

of private private funding of a private prisons why would i ever welcome as a lot to mess somebody that has a city that damaging a community and on a generation is it that man knows what's coming for we'll have to make a one day let's widen out from london you're the only candidate i've seen it's been talking about things like smutty on foreign wars about julian assange and why do you think the you all want to hear any candidates talking about these kind of wider global issues. only attended us talking on these things because i pick out injustice where i see i don't pick and choose i see an injustice i speak out and i don't have like i said an agenda i don't have legion says we've big corporations. governing bodies that own armories and 1000000 pound policy makers as well the same situations that julian assange and people are seeing a plate an injustice and that is just merely trying to highlight to the world

injustice he's not a whistleblower he was not actually chelsea manning but yet he's condemned he's the one that is put on trial well i mean this man publicly hanging over and everybody's watching it happen yeah michel i see understand if it's a robot understand the ethics of the world economy i understand the ethics of what's going on in the well i don't understand details and he's trying to make a change out of it and it definitely nobody make a change for my people because of i would get another 3 years or 4 years a city called well people that i was about to happen again city can would deny those things careless or thank you. speaking to going underground if you have the charlie cook then that's it for the show we're back on sunday the eve of the birthday of nudge rejoin the school year jones founder of britain's 1st major black newspaper the west indies that until saturday. last social media.

child trafficking out in full play by those of the allegations walter not. a wild and largest producer says we can't just stop in testimony. and. we're not given any. visible. accidents a top school declares the government to be illegal warning of ministers and misuse of much power and. israel's prime minister proposes made me sit and talk to me to be graded by response to stimulate the country's ongoing and collation campaign a move that some say violate privacy rights and convince the people like you force them to do. the right too.