could have come straight out of his mouth what's more significant is that coming out of the liberal camp which friend is of rather more shocking because as he said you know support of the west is very much russian liberalism about it it's all very very closely associated historically with westernization and this idea that we should become a normal i.e. western country so when people start criticizing the west from within the liberal count. an interesting idea logical shift you know claim that it also is happening in international relations we had just a burrell the high representative for form of policy for the e.u. he was in moscow and then turned into a real fiasco because again lecturing about values about western values and that russia needs essentially big you know paraphrasing here in between the lines that you know russia has to learn oh oh bester new ways for it to be a genuine legitimate partner of the west in this case particularly the european union your take. they're all i going to liberalism consistent some very good ideas

about the central role of the individual which shareholdings obviously to service a role in society the point i was making was that the really international system contra would be couples from power politics and in a sense that a liberal international system in europe effectively meant that we would keep some of this block all it takes and also making russia responsible for its own exclusion by not living up to the west ideals and also to some extent 3 reshaping the relations so again the e.u. nato they tend to conceptualize some softness you know socializing agents they are the teacher some liberalism in russia student so under this format you have you know it's for for a sovereign equality and indeed we don't under this format we don't really discuss russian policy since to discuss their behavior so again these are going to approach and you know so we are closer aim to reward or punish russian behavior until their line along with ours which is a very strange way of looking at competing national interests so i think that this

is what's russia is now also rejecting and that was kind of the message of a lot of 2 that you know we we can discuss we should you know set up a magic format for partnership but if you feel liberalism means that the west can interfere in our affairs but we counter interfere into western affairs then this is not a tolerable and not a tenable format for international corporation and i think jim you know this is where the tensions are focused let me go to d.m. here in moscow you're in the think a bit here vienna i mean where did this conversation income coming out of bastions of liberal publications and in and what not because me is addressing what western woke ism as i said in my introduction you know questioning the family questioning patriotism while a lot. russian liberals are very disparaging of their own country for even for even

these that these ideas coming out of the west now are quite frightening because i suppose and you guys can all tell me that that's not part of their definition of what a russian liberal is. wow i think you know that on the stand what a shock russian numerals had more than a week ago when the construction boom off that infamous theater director obvious yes call him in no way as yet that you know and let me make such a comparison i remember him i would friend to and a great specialist from russia and a goat you know when gorbachev started making his 1st statements and the west was very disparaging about them saying oh this is just a smokescreen and it won't take it in order to explain to them the gorbachev was serious you said imagine a pope saying to the people or to he has come to know so that the going doesn't exist this is the same impression that the soviets had when or much else thought at

that making his speeches now the whole of it is the most pro western has been the most protest and the most and they traditional theater direct that you know russia so when he started to criticize the west it was like the 7 saying that the ghost exists i saw him you know this was the same impression that trashes had when they read that call and if it had come from to get off from some but you want to crush an author it will not make a sensation but but the more ease the warst you know he is the more sed. people go into the barrel but in russian he barrels op you know they're the most elitist the most disparaging all of their own people kind of political a tramp so when but almost said guys the west does not treat you have that people do you know and seeing every free thought in the social natural acts you have pressure from the state and not only from the state that was there. you know and

and i think that it was very important that the russians are starting to review who they are traditional views on the west and on themselves and. sound it out but he well in his article but speaking about this visit by mr borrero you know i watched 3 times you know these press conference where we bora was lambasted you know. even when he returned you know to to the west and i couldn't find anything impolite you know or humiliation. from our foreign minister lavrov even though all the western press all the european newspapers all the american jews because they all wrote oh this is unacceptable this was such a humiliation well i just said that the e.u. was an unreliable partner well if you have sanctions you know coming without and then for 5 years of course it's not their elavil partner but when mr biden said if you any a days ago when he opened the insult that the russian president who what he meant

when he didn't even call him president general biden was addressing base munich conference and he said the following let me just you know quote him. the kremlin is born in and threaten individual states it's a me starting to mine allah do you all christian. who are generous trying to convince the won't that our government ease ask as they are all war well now we see that definitely it is wars right because what we have seen from you know from mr biden himself and from lee he's team is just outrageous you know the i think all of this would agree unfortunately the russia gate hoax is led into foreign policy something that i'm worried about it's actually you know well let me go back to the essent in your article that they've written the russian liberalism can be very illiberal what do you mean by that because i think one of the problems that was. some of our viewers will have is that we have these ideas of conservatism and

liberalism but they have different meanings and different places go ahead you know as an update and they're not watertight with tight categories i think we tend to sort of think of liberals conservatives socialist fascist as entirely separate things but then not by a over a lot and they intermingle you can be either grow pot the socialist party conservative pot a communist i mean it he sings can mix up in any number of ways and i think we should be surprised that that's true and a russian context but what we certainly seen in the past few years is that while not totally identity politics of western liberalism is not very popular among russian liberals and i mean but the most off. the mat just mentioned as one example but in the same nice paper he wrote for just a few months there is no article by a woman called yulia latina which was very similarly outspoken denouncing what she

called woke socialists who she denounced as a bunch of loses. and use some quite inflammatory language about butterflies matta we saw also by the us why fix any assumption that famous socialite and one time presidential candidate was used to be the face of audi and russia was fired after making what some people said was a somewhat racist tweet under a number of racist comments which appeared to come out a liberal countering the. movement. on the language i don't know if you know it when you are happy degree it when you agree that. racism and bigotry isn't one of the hallmarks of russian liberalism is something that i've been telling people for years i mean the west likes to fixate on mr know bali but you can go to you tube and you can see what he what he thinks of migrant workers from the south i mean back kind of language in england. move over to. glen here that kind of language

would get you canceled in the united states and pretty damn fast ok i mean this is there's a misperception in the west of what liberalism is and the right is in russia go ahead let. oh. well i guess the problem and often why is that the ethnic component they did doesn't always come up in the west as much as it does in russia what is the basic i.p.a. there after the colossal soviet union i guess many liberal saw it us as yet a stronger ethno cultural core that it is a democracy or that. the liberals who want to democracy that that. at their most effectively us it was present in democracies only link every must decide they are yet ethnic nationalism too liberal democratic ideas so i guess i wasn't. dismissed but it's also important to see why russia has been about this trust

historically tour cities to tourist liberalism because often it's with some other good reasons oh and innocence i had none to mention in the article the soileau us. liberals so. often they have linked liberal ideals directly to wit loyal loyalty towards western powers now this is a long long history i mean you can go back today early 18th century with you know where the great 20 want to. push for his liberal ideas and western i see europe is also actual cultural revolution so remaking the country so he will see us or treasonist worse service again he saw this in the early 19th century a smoldering been the only course and sitting french revolution and you see it also now with only 6. to say some cold color revolutions and they took specialists and idea. that this is something that should be welcomed. again it's a very. it can be defined this illiberal is some way and illiberal so see their

goal ass effectively toppling the government through violent means to take a journey with this idea that only we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the price . this is a brush liberals say. it's been decades since the fall of spain's fascist regime but old wounds still haven't emailed. me from a go. make coffee to market economy suppose. you me on the bus at the source me note of that i notice that the same question which we know. of newborn babies were torn from their mothers and given away and forced adoption and only.

to this day mothers still search for grown children while looking in hope for their birth parents. the world is driven by. the dares thinks. we dare to ask. them to max kaiser by their full survival guide. looking forward to a year that's without. yanks this is what happens to pensions in britain.

watched kaiser report. welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm futile don't remind you we're discussing the crisis of russian liberalism. ok let's go back to in moscow here glenn was alluding to dip into the break here you know i've lived in this in your country for over 2 decades and it's for me that it's so astounding how liberals are so disadvantaged and disparage their own country and idealize a west that does not exist maybe never ever existed here and then maybe we're

getting to some point of an inflection here i don't know but to me it would be it would be very difficult for russian liberals to start reassessing their role in their cultural role because they think of themselves as like the cultural intelligentsia so they the best of the best that russia can provide and the best of the best are usually disparaging of their own culture in their own people go ahead oh well it's true they feel history you will see a lot of off steam on things happening in the 19th century usually you know i agree with glad you brought us all viewed with suspicion in russia for 2 reasons you know the main reason is because usually they were pretty assessed over who should show numeral swung in fabry in 1017 and then they basically surround a poet to an extremist group which has ruled russia for 70 years after that you know by people also themselves had a very interesting evolution in the 19th century they began asked people who were

more or less you know loyal to russian people you know a but also idealized and the west people like child die off you know battle a you know when the russian liberal so. so of the west if you're in for example an exam to get some you know some as he's name is pronounced in english he suddenly became very critical of the west when he knew that you know he's sad you wrote that in russia you have a policeman next to you in england you how policeman inside every person you know tell him he knew more of her what to stink and what is indecent you know so in fact there are some in these ways and what predicted the social networks and he just saw them inside society inside the western us themselves. so then is quite right on that one but yes i think that basically if we look at how that is all going to play allat in general you know when sergei lavrov all foreign ministers sad if you days

ago that if that you imposes sanctions against our strategic sect us where we're going to put on hold our relationship with the you just 2 or 3 years ago it would be a scandal you know in 2011 this would be a huge scandal you know all the liberals or even that mordred the position would say oh you know he is you know disconnect an os from europe oh oh how awful now it is viewed it was accepted actually by society as a normal diplomatic move i think that of course our own doesn't want to break up with over relations with the e.u. but he wants to warm up in advance so that certain bet things don't happen if i can make such a comparison you know the 1st of all who all started because the british government did not make it clear because of germans that if the war starts we will support from so our office sending that message if you impose sanctions don't expect it to be on onset you know as as it happened many times before we're going to you know

patrol ations on hold precisely because we don't want you to ration relations when doing that right now i'm saying that right now so this is a message that the majority of hugh. majority care all russian public could be in supports now you know the state no. you can't just times over the many many years that i've known you so would you agree with me when i say love or austrian t.j. patience has come to an end. well i think he's patience easier and less and i will never i think i will never be able that it came to an end i think a lot of people thought it was i mean prize they should you know he just said that you know in an interview with a russian going to nest i think with the offer of who not having provides ations even when he's very and i mean that's why they always called you know if i take it so seriously because i you know i've met him a number of times he doesn't speak off the cuff easily very very focused on his message or you know call one of the things that when i study european liberalism a lot and in when in talking with russian liberals you know i think for us we think

about in terms of ideas the role of the individual in society express freedom of expression. freedom of assembly freedom to protest here but the lot of the liberals i've come across it's more of an i a european identity it's less about ideals and ideas then a. being transformed into something that you see at a distance you know that i want to be like that but it has nothing to do with really values per se my wrong about that go ahead because it brings in the ethnic element here that i find so. disgusting sometimes when i when i hear references to people of other races go ahead i think you shouldn't throw the baby out with the water there i agree cheri they should because he because he saw aspects of liberalism he disliked to incite liberalism is that because you know i would describe myself as a professor. and i think actually most people even those who strongly

criticized liberalism actually. fairly liberal and some of the affected by. but you wouldn't want to see it go away oh god knows i mean it's interesting for instance he told us of a lot of rough you have not spoke up years ago and the magazine russian global affairs attacking western liberalism that he did so entirely from the perspective of western liberalism basically saying you know the west says a democratic but i'm not democratic right so so i think many below carol have and i think as as glenn suggested liberalism takes different forms in different countries right and in the form it's taken in russia has very much as you say has had association to a large degree and it is i would say it's identical a western i say sion because you can get you can be a westernized and a conservative nonetheless has been a very strong historical connection between this idea of western isn't all of making russia into and more western society. being

a home market liberalism and it's associated with lot of you know force or as a local positivism which is the idea of it as a sort of almost historically determined paf right but. everyone's going to end up in the same pot and the end of that part is the west because the west is the most advanced society so therefore you know ultimately valve is where we're all going and we shouldn't stop it and the reason that we're not might fit into the ethno nationalism is because. people from say france and central asia who be the main immigrant group in russia seen as they you know further back on that process all of historical development and therefore if you have lost all immigration from central asia you will hold back russia's progress because these people just not i don't sound. as not what i'm saying i'm trying to explain what i know it's a word. but in this understanding. you know these people who are central asia or back could bank they don't have the advanced western liberal values that we do take

to suspicious of islam in that regard i'm baffled we shouldn't have them hypocrites i hope but the elements of democracy and i think this is something about the sank and survival there is you know an association back for of after nationalism of liberalism which actually historically has been quite common you know glenda and it again you know it's when we look at it. in the ology about modernization and that's always associated with westernizing here but i think you know the big debate that's happening or starting to happen in russia is that people are mistaking a westernization modernization with post modernism and i think that's word search starts hurting into a train wreck for a lot of russian liberals go ahead. and there are russian liberalism how it seemingly is undergoing some change but is also due to in my opinion you do changes a bit in the liberalism in the west i mean you can this walk you some you can see

it as being very radical liberalism which tends to liberate itself from all former structures because. if you like western society has traditionally been defined by both a balance between conservative values and liberal values so conservatives and tends to look at the collective identity of the group through religion culture that traditions of family values and this dense do exist with liberalism which is putting their liberal laws are the individual at the center now is there some contradictions but they also tend to balance each other successes so this is usually when you see that society is thriving and they can assist in themselves between this conservatism and liberalism so between continued team changed now i think over the last few years this is what's referred to as wolk ism is a lot of this is a liberal idealist now decoupling completely from conservatism i mean. now refuting often family values people don't you want to be defined by gender it's that you

know that there are radical secularism you have the multiculturalism instead of having a common cultural a form that everyone belongs to so it's all i think there's a lot of unraveling going on between the allens we had before so i think more often now in use our russian liberals look towards the west and thinking well we were under the west between you know in 1950 s. and 1000 a.d. really we don't know what this is about this is not what we want for russia and again i think it possibly can be positive because you know liberals do need their representation for presentation in russia a son's oliseh are sent us being this you know a suspicious group you know possibly more loyalty to the west to russia itself i think that's what it was in so many did he cut loose from western liberalism liberalism could have a better future in russia. that's glenn brings up a great point it's going to be my next question in russian liberals are doing it more hermetically with you know with russians raw material instead of looking for

a reference i think for the lines about many liberals i know does not exist anymore in the west they never so we're working with your raw material here is at last well i'm afraid the huge majority of all the people who are old liberals by western media they are financially dependent on the west and sources inside russia then i'm going to change that's why 90 percent of all of their reactions to become offside to kl inside the new broker and we're very neck and most of them are just you know he sold out to fulton that's the only explanation they can have right. of course the thinking numerals and the thinking people are not yet decided which side to join they are reading this now observing this and i think in some more general trends you know i think it's not only russia in eastern europe in general you know when even france even bradley you know when poland to hungary or the czech in

bosnia which used to be talk so i can then when they joined the last when they joined the european union they kind of a very different image on what they were going to see and participate in the than what they want and i think it's an interest in i think the rise of a western sentiment in paul and maybe a very good point in fighting and i'm sorry point is racism because for me a for example is a kind of compete see for the poles they rolled into before the west you know the poles have a huge inferiority complex before 'd the french the british you know they are the civilized people we have to admit they've been this is still humiliating bottom there is an asian to the east a wasp that's. much morris made you need it right out of what i think yes i'm on it well and i want to thank our viewers watching us here r.c.c. and.

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a dog. in the bush at the source mean older than just the scene in which we know. of newborn babies were torn from their mothers and given away and forced adoption. for feaster. to this day mothers still search for grown children while looking in hope for their birth parents. l. look forward to talking to. that technology should work for people. must obey the orders given by human beings except when conflict with the 1st law show your identification for should be very careful about artificial intelligence and the point obviously is to create. conflict areas with artificial intelligence where some of.

the obama's protect its own existence. the british and american governments have often been accused of destroying lives in their own interest or you see in this these techniques is the state devising methods to him to essentially destroy the personality of an individual. by scientific. this is how one doctor's theories were allegedly used in psychological warfare against prisoners deemed a danger to the state that was the. foundation the method of psychological interrogation psychological torture. disseminated within the u.s. intelligence community and worldwide among our allies for the next 30 years the

victims say they still live with the consequences to. the e.u.'s lock down showdown brussels pressure is reluctant members to open up their borders to get the block back on the move but 6 states say that they shot. across the atlantic hoffer 1000000 american deaths and counting yet no mass vaccination in sight but despite the president biden escapes the criticism previously leveled the donald trump's handling of the crisis. and we hear from a canadian man who received hundreds of death threats and felt forced to move after testing positive.