watch kaiser. hello and welcome to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle according to a new gallup poll over 60 percent of those asked are dissatisfied with the 2 major parties the country is divided politically where the parties themselves are divided within and to this the fact most voters do not belong to either party is it finally time to move on from this diwali. to discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guests gloria laurie of up in san

francisco she was a 2020 presidential candidate of the party for socialism and liberation and the peace and freedom party in pasadena we have great job to what he is the co-host and co-creator of the independent media show congo couch and in austin we have wes benedict he is former executive director of the liberation party are across up roles in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciated ok let's go to 7 so gloria you heard my introduction here why do you think over 60 percent of people are dissatisfied with the 2 major parties because we keep hearing the country is equally divided. and that's a media me but i think it's far more complicated than that because i i i mix with different circles and the majority experience i come across personally most people are politically homeless not a democrat and not a republican go ahead gloria. well i believe for many years people have tellt

disengaged from the political process and it's reflected in the fact that maybe 40 percent maximum usually vote in the presidential elections and far less in the off year elections but i think it's because. they don't feed their life changed by anything that the politicians do and they hear the rhetoric they hear the promises that they want to get elected everything goes out the window and i think that's part of the cynicism of this past year in the last 4 years trying to. exacerbate that situation and i think there's a lot of confusion by people but i do believe that with the higher the record number of voters in 2020 showed that people were shut up with trump's politics they want to change and i think we're back to the same cycle of seeing in these last days of the biden administration the fighting debate

and the lack of action inside of congress so we're back to square one well i hope we're not back to square one because i hope we can start moving forward a great let me go to you in pasadena here it is that it seems to me and this is the way i look at politics i look at it all up with the rhetoric that's being thrown around all the time but it's still the kind of basic economic issues that people are dealing with particularly during this pandemic an economic turndown and you know with this administration not just that you know that can take on trump and i can pick on by an equal measure here you know when they talk about you know of the 2000 dollars check thing ok and they are who we know we have a female secretary of treasury right now i mean is it down moves the needle for anyone in the middle class and i guess my point is is that you know i don't think trump addressed the middle class enough and i don't think biden is either he's just doing the culture wars which is infuriating for a lot of people including myself. yeah well i think you hit it right on the nose

there peter it's just a scrapbook a theater going round and round and round and you can pick on biden just as much as you can pick are donald trump because once he got back into office it's the same old thing back to business and it just needs simply because whether it be i don't trumpet the republicans or joe biden the democrats they don't represent the people they represent their donors i mean everything is so awful 80 percent of people still before this pandemic working paycheck to paycheck you know and now this game stop situation where you can see where the big guys are still protecting their own and once again the little guys are shut out so i don't think it really makes a difference who's in office peter it's the same old same old and that's a good just not that divide and conquer strategy people can that each other while he never addressed one economic issue and who suffers we the people do wes the same same question to you and so many people are are dissatisfied he went and by that is the major parties and the parties themselves with there's

a civil war end up in both parties right now was it go on i mean well at what point do people show their dissatisfaction by saying i just don't want to participate. yeah i think there is a lot of infighting within the republicans and democrats and it's kind of natural to expect that if you think about all the major important issues in the world or in the country there's taxes there are social issues terrorist trade issues personally research you to to group everyone into just 2 major categories along so lot of people into a category where they're not going to agree with everyone else within their party even within a small libertarian party we have some minor disagreement some things so within the republican party you've got to i see 2 categories you've got the social conservatives who vote on religious issues and social issues and then you've got

the economic conservatives who most maybe more libertarians stand for free markets those 2 groups don't necessarily agree on a lot of policies within the democrats i see it as you've got moderate democrats and then you've got the more extreme socialist leaning democrats and there are say a tension there and so you're lumping a lot of people like i said into 2 big groups who are just naturally not going to agree you know gloria i mean i i i i call myself a conservative for many reasons but i think i actually have more in common with a lot of progress on economic issues and i am fanatically anti-war and interventionist so you can see that i'm not very i welcome you can see why i'm not a member of the republican party never have been never will be because there are too many people in there that represent vested interests that i just i can accept and i think that you know in the and then i look at you know i was on the jimmy

door show not very long ago and you know it was interesting that here is this really left wing progressive guy when jimmy door and i could agree on so many different things which i thought was so amazing because this is. do wabbly this binary that we're pretty presented all of the time in the media is either or i don't want either of them i could be a plague on both their houses ok i've had enough of them because they're not moving the needle on issues that affect majorities in america go ahead laura yeah i agree with you and the plane is if they're not really 2 sites it's the same the same stuff they are capitalists they are big capitalists the fact that they. gathered billions of dollars in presidential elections shows they are represented at all and now you have i want to talk about 2 issues that are so critical to people one is what's taking place in texas that. deregulation the vultures just

picking on people's bones right now and 4000000 without electricity their pipes broken and the poor the most effective but really everybody is a result of deregulation that has developed in this country over decades since the 1980 s. and then you have the fight for $1515.00 minimum wage biden proposed it but now being pulled back on it and had to fight for a shift just $15.00 memorization proposed over 5 years that doesn't mean anything and on the other hand the people are the ones who made it happen it's the lowish workers and the unions that 1st made it a possibility and the reality in some cities and i think that's where people are going to start seeing where action really takes place and progress is by our own civic action by protests by organizing and mobilizing in the population the politicians as well wait wait wait can we get around issues where we can all work

together ok going to go back to your infrastructure infrastructure in a little bit more infrastructure that might take care of of the $15.00 an hour issue i'm not a i'm not to die on that hill i've read different reports here as far as dignity regulation in principle i am fortier but i think that if we had a joint goal of rebuilding the country and rebuilding industry where people can have good paying jobs actually that might help the budget because you can tax them you know it seems to me i'm not trying to be simplistic here but i think that you know they lose sight of a coming coca-cola can everyone can win ok it's either i only or you win and either if you win i lose that's. not of the duchess not a civil politics anymore go ahead. once again peter you hit it on the nose because here in america we have this cancel culture which means if you don't agree with what i agree then you're out if medicare for all is not at the top of your list

then you're out which stops us from coming to that common goal and the funny thing is peter though i think it's all about the establishment whether it be the democrats or the republicans who've kind of implemented this kind of divide and conquer tactic so if you ask somebody else might one person might say well you know the establishment is doing a terrible job but i think they're doing the jet exact job they wanted to do because right now i mean everything is so polarized everybody is fighting with each other that we can't even come up with something simple like an infrastructure bill which we can all agree on and therefore nothing gets done and then they hold on to their power. you know you know it was you know as a libertarian on this program here what majority hereon ideas we do present to people to get past this artificial divine go ahead with us. yeah i'm a libertarian and so that means i support free markets and when you think free markets are the way to economic prosperity and making everyone better off whether

you're rich or poor it's hard to to let go of that concept and i i fully believe that and so when someone says the deregulation in taxes caused blackouts site to me it was poor regulation and it was in a free market situation and i think if you look around the world countries where people are doing pretty well are where they have the freest economies in countries where there are very core is where they have unfree economies and lots of corruption is so. i i think someone like biden has done a reasonably good job of unifying the country by rejecting some of the more extreme anti freedom economic initiatives if you raise the minimum wage if you could last a regulation is if you spend a ton of money that hersey economy i think truck hurt the economy with his stimulus

spending and growing the deficit to trillions in one year or so to bring people together 8 you know. by who won the election he's done the best job of bringing people together i'm not i'm not buying supporter but that's just the way i see it dammit gloria in its early days when it's a month and 40 days of this administration here but he's already walked back quite a few things that he promised during the campaign and not necessarily things i would agree with here but it seems to me and misses by my problem with libertarianism it's not an attack on wes or anything like that is that again you know trump and now by they pick winners it's not the market that's picking winners is politics that winners here and that i find very frustrating is far is that you know a $15.00 an hour of just trying to make your case you're going to give me 30 seconds before we go to the break go ahead laura i think it really much more than that you know this now or i think when you have in the last year billionaires getting $1.00

trillion dollars and well floor taking advantage gouging of people in a time of the worst housing crisis in history shows that if the system is capitalism that's a crisis it's a crime and no in fact it is deregulation that costs this disaster in texas ok on that point there we're going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on america's broken political system stay with our team. the british and american governments have often been accused of destroying lives in their own interests or you see in this these techniques is the state devising methods to him to essentially destroy personality of an individual. by scientific.

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back to crossfire for all things are considered i think you. were talking about the party system in the united states. ok let's go back to pasadena craig. this is a i have this thing that i'm fascinated with and i'm trying to get people excited about i'm very much for 3rd parties i think there should be 5 parties 6 parties why not ok maybe i won't be politically homeless anymore but in lieu of breaking this to wobbly which almost seems impossible they seem so institutionally ingrained and there's just too much corporate money sloshing around just so much of it but there's in lieu of all of that and i think you'd be on my site here realignment there's a realignment going on in politics i mentioned earlier i can talk to be aggressive

you know if you look at trump supporters and you asked them about health care but you don't use these these toxic terms about health care you know the socialism or something but if you ask them you know do you think that you should have affordable health care we want and you know what the majority would say yes i do you can be good idea ok and ok but of course you know this is dennis waitlist style that you know maybe you get used to but actually cuba has a good health care system but my point is that a lot of conservatives and a lot of progress isn't it's the way we talk about these issues in many ways and not let the middle man the media and these political talking heads and these you know in think tank to stay in and all that be the filter if we take that filter away there's a whole lot more commonality there and we don't have to talk about personalities all the time which annoy me ok yeah you know it's funny because i consider myself a leftist libertarian i voted for gloria and they and their general election but

there's a lot of things i love about the left part of the libertarian party as far as their protection of civil liberties or whatnot and like you said peter we can sit down and come to a lot of agreements i lot of things but the powers that be do have a spoke is that each other rather than talking about the nuances of these policies and you know there's a lot of clerical work. there needs to be done to get a 3rd party as far as signatures or getting a certain percentage on the ballots and we're not but that's actually the easy part the hard part peter is getting people in the same room getting to be comfortable with uncomfortable conversations and that really is the hard part because it seems like american culture is so set on these you know cultural issues where we're fighting each other rather than sitting down and saying hey man what do we agree juan and yes the nuance of conversations are important because i do believe there are a lot of people out there who are somewhat libertarian my did that do want you know health care what not and but it's the way we go about it because there's also that

argument that with incomes the socialist parties that they have this little kind of a storage area and streak in them that if you don't go their way that you can't get it so i think we the whole ends of the spectrum back junk we have to find a way to come to the get together in the middle and find common ground with people like gloria and people like to the libertarian right up there you know any westmead i think really hasn't really on the head there is that all our politics are it's identity it's all purity tests if you have to pass a purity test and you can't deviate i think that's more a problem on the left than it is on the right because people on the right are usually lazy and a lot of them are just stupid ok because they they do you know they do they do it their donors wanted them to be done i mean how do you know how many republican senators do people know they don't ok because they're not there to serve the people they're there to serve their donors and democrats do in a different way the left doesn't aim for a way they can because and they're much more in tune with the culture wars you keep

their coalition together but at the end of day it really is about the donors here so i mean this purity test we need to get away from it wes the libertarian party definitely has spirity tests and i don't think the green screen party this well we we you know we. if you could an outsider would look at our platform and hear what we say and say wow you are all on the same page and we all get together on occasion want to rip the page and the smaller pieces and we tear each other up look the republicans do have a purity test it's pro. pro-life and the democrats have a purity test is pro-choice. there are some other examples but that's the that's the biggest one and i think if you had if we had something like a proportional i'm sorry but isn't it pira the test because it's a barrier to entry is it an intentional barrier to entry i mean it and i think the

data that plays a role in there it's a cudgel in that sense i don't think it's really about the issue of your conscience your consciousness about it a moral issue is that it's a way to keep people out and it's a form of entryism to we'll let you win if you believe this that's what i just think it's kind of just a straw man and i and i think that's an area that we need to start discussing and not to completely dismiss someone because they have an attitude on that issue. well it and i would say i do think the vast majority of americans are pretty moderate and pretty much agree on a lot of issues. when i do a lot of door to door campaigning and that kind of work and talking to voters and forums and when i talk to republican they're not extreme free market supporters most of them are not extremely religious or bigot is a lot of them are just pretty moderate in the same thing with democrats

a lot of them are not extreme socialists a lot of the more moderate capitalists and sort of support civil liberties but not too many civil liberties sure i think if there was if we had something like proportional representation i think you'd see more like 4 or 5 or 6 significant groupings. and political parties which survive and libertarians would be one of them but probably not the biggest even though we should with. well a glory i mean. pluralism i mean they take it they always talk about diversity again this is my criticism of the left but it's not it's not diversity they want uniformity and and that and that's very lean ating in many way for a lot of people here is it again this purity test has to be applied here like you you know you will openly criticize capitalism i have a lot of problems with the economic system but i don't approach it by saying can't we have to destroy capitalism i think there should be free markets real free

markets and helping them they the the middle class middle class business as i said i'm very pro i'm pro union is well people should have choices and they need to have power ok and again by kind of this language of. excluding one idea for another i think alienates people i mean that is my everyone has a right to their opinion but you know i do travel around and let him lead the circles and i i'm very careful my language and people know i'm very careful my language should because i don't want to be a barrier for us not to agree go ahead gloria. well you know this discussion today and what you hear in the media in general is about the left and the right and the polarization but the true left has never had a voice on television he looked at the presidential debates of 22 like you might like a number he sense you mean part of bernie was saying he certainly was raising issues

and talking about socialism as a democratic socialist and i think it open people's eyes to accepting there is there is some legitimacy in what they're saying we're talking about something completely different i am a socialist i was a candidate for president for the party for socialism liberation and peace and freedom party and we got the highest vote in 44 years even with the lack of any media access even with the base being solely between one billionaire backed candidate and another it's less like area and fighting all the time show and people just their eyes glaze over like where do i fit in that's here's a simple way to talk about health care it is the same health care that each member of congress gets very very with that we my health care they can have care that truck got when he got sick. and the fact that we have happened 1000000 people who have died and they were going to die because they can't seem to get that vaccine to

everybody's aunts i think the crisis is capitalism the political system is a reflection it comes from the economic system and perelman that that's an argument to create i would say the political system now is designed not to take people's interests. into account whatsoever i mean i think they. i think during the republican party is making a big mistake by not embracing the working middle class that because that's something that is really a huge change but the mcconnells of this world they just who these people you know i don't really you know you know he. this is simply to some this professional career is a position of not embracing people that want to embrace you but you have to recognize our needs 1st and this is to say this is a historical moment but he said most republicans in the g.o.p. leadership are just dumber than nails they can understand it go ahead and then also

reject any candidate that gets a little bit of both sides what not really speaks to the people i strongly support it's also gabbling gabbert in the primaries because i think it's both sides and i thought she had these great libertarian views i met so many great libertarian people and we talk about protecting our civil liberties and stuff but then we talked a lot of socialist people you know who wanted good working rights and whatnot and i did vote for gloria and general election but that's the problem i often see too as well i'm with a group of people we're talking about where do we go from here or do we go into the green party try to take it over try to change the party or do we go into the libertarian party start to left this caucus over there because we do need a mixture of both sides of the libertarian minded people talking about our civil liberties protecting our elections and we also need social safety nets if we have all this money for war and that's the reason why i voted for gloria because he was the biggest anti-imperialist candidate on the ballot then we should have money for education money for health care but they never want you to have that and you have

you fighting with each other so it's one of these situations peter like i really wish we could just be comfortable with these uncomfortable situations say hey gloria what do we what do we take from the socialist party hey wes welker we've taken this limits area party summit to gather it really gets of work done for those people who are you know so we stream for either sides west are you what are you when. you're ready for less pay randi kaye i am i love to see a good strong 3rd party and i say i stand about 20 years trying many others have tried for longer than i have and i guess hard to do did. the way this or parties have been majorly successful in the past is stave coalesced around a major personality like ross perot and i think. you know someone like trump if he was younger and interested could actually form a 3rd party it might not be a party i would agree with but i think he you know he is the type of person who can

make it happen so i don't know if that answers your question for a 3rd i'm for more thar nice i'd like to see the libertarian party do better but. for me it's still the issues and i don't want a bad big 3rd party is a very good point here because unfortunately there's a lot of bad political actors and with that a lot of bad policy that ignoring the fat that the majority of the electorate the majority of the population political system isn't for them and we need to take it back i want to thank my guests in in san francisco pasadena and in austin and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here arky see you next time remember. when a trauma happens it changes us literally it causes

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division's. opponents of the prime minister are spending a 2nd night outside parliament demanding his resignation. u.s. intelligence report claims the saudi crown prince approved the murder of journalist . 28 in what may become a game changer for u.s. saudi relations joe biden. come out against plans to make coronavirus vaccinations obligatory for workers. and the head of the e.u. with german. claims that. will have to be used by all member states.