only while of societies can afford it how did you come to that conclusion it's not i think it's it is it sounds probably. beat on the other the acts of but this constance democracy always dies it is one of the ways 1st of all it's one of the ways of a magic complex societies. it was born in and in want to weigh as with as we know it increased and died because then the report of a roman republic. empire then. republican republic of more easily one accuses french republic but it's been it's been a long time ago since then we had a no i'm sorry and then an emergence of liberal democracy and it's a raid around the world then the let me roy do that more of the liberal democracy brought about rick revolution because february. we had a liberal who was what evolution in favor of 17 then who had 70 years of.

and germany and then they had the end of the cold war and they triumphed. historically then. just by chance europe didn't succumb to it the whole came because of because he made a strategic mistake of taking some of the attacking russia and so now we see again probably. a station where democracy isn't treated by the way everybody says that. sooner or later on the new though of developing the society elements of democracy was removed but now we are with this in there we've for a term. always everywhere including in socal in the democratic countries all so-called democratic countries and also i mean the

absolute the common sense and i think one of the 1st people who pronounced it was the quote you i mean tomorrow see you smiling is hardly an ideologue of democracy to be honest i. don't sense i mean democracy is only for rich countries and for east countries for stable societies and whenever there is a. challenge from within or especially from without democracies crumble it's not that i am happy about that it's. like it's true now i think it's important to stress that you make a distinction between democratization a political faith made it sound almost and democracy is a form of governance and social engagement and i think without the latter it would be like without the sounds of people being privy to their they affairs of their own country i think it would be very difficult to foster a genuine sounds of national conscience and janie and sounds of patriotism which

i'm sure is not an active concept for you how do you build that sounds off so. so an emotional engagement made to your country without democracy and it's very strange question there have been. many societies almost to the size in the world which have had emotional deep in gave to their countries with societies and thousands of people dying for their country or doing fantastic things in countries where there were no democracies democracies would just deliver these kind of democracy is. a privilege of last 6 or 70 years. to huge countries the united states and soviet union that blocked. really a real strain historic strain who have a. big war for 7470 years. democracy. well there's

only one of the ways of governing and i am a little bit distressed guns and they called democracy a value of values family values faith. is law for your country but democracy is an instrument and when the people are. saying that. this is a value that is a strange and we are distortion of history but do you recognize that it's important that to keep people engaged to make them believe that they have a stake in the development of that country but there are many other ways. for doing that and move but to democracy is one of the ways and by the way this is obviously it is the most comfortable way of governance including engagement. we should have. i would have loved that all countries been would have been democratic my country.

even on the on the level of the development acts some of them and some democracy obviously. i'm losing that historically and also i know that democracy has always failed when the reserve strain when there's a crisis of crisis when there's a. war there is own country in the world who which has been born is the most of a special group and would survive as a democracy that's united states now even mention this crisis of crisis and in your writing here you say that we are now in a very particular time in history one of several long simmering trance suddenly coming to the boil and exploiting exploding in our own faces you mentioned the crisis of capitalism the crisis of western civilization the global pandemic or what is being sold as a global pandemic an environmental degradation which one of those i mean maybe some

others preoccupied in the most which you find the most challenging intellectual one their refusal of people to acknowledge the truth. and right that one of the crises is the fact and that that we are using that intellectual tools which were created in different times for different types of societies muesli of course these were on the western times and western types of societies by the way russia was in the west and to the started to depart from the west. a decade or maybe to the cade's ago but we are you better. methods of thinking are absolutely absolute and you know and this is the but that means that we are absolutely in a way and that is the biggest challenge that our we are. not up to the challenges we face. i don't know if you were the grave in that. thinking over

some of the ideas in. any articles that occurred to me that maybe of this crisis may have a common denominator and i would call it for myself. excessive consumption or in simpler terms pure basic pure human greed and i see that 19 as an example of that because in my view at least it's primarily an metabolic challenge not so much a viral one and metabolic challenges always sound from poor self control people eating too much consuming too much which is exactly what the capitalist system is encouraging them to do as it's more of development would it be fair to say that essentially all these problems stem from the ethos of enough never being enough. well greed is one of the great drivers of so the zation without greed so this would never be. the sole develop of people who want to consume or want to live

better the problem is that in most of the times during the history is this really was either the contained either by set of moral values including by the way the more about as in the west. and dated by. external circumstances like wars threats etc etc and then during last 70 years of there was there was very unique in human history we were we have. these external know. containing factors then who have the degree of normal values in many countries and combination of excessive bluebell excessive. consumption and by the way it is of all it is provokes on the daily basis by. by the whole environment i mean that we what we watch what we hear is consume

consume consume plus again that chain is the change of that is in many of the societies. that is the biggest it is their deepest problem i would say of course and they said that that is the what i call the crisis capital and it's only excessive consumption it is a relational model well also in a sound sense what you refer to as the crisis of western civilization because this alternately you know what the western civilization and i think we both consider russia party to be part of that civilization one of the greatest the hallmarks of the enlightenment was the recognition of the sanctity of of the individual and yet you call many of the of this new current. movements and a humanist can you explain what you mean. in life and of course was a great step forward in the in human history but because it put the human

person into the center of the problem is that in lent and. was once a one sided in the in the if you bring that. trend in order or behavior to the to the. historic end which is what with finishing we end up with in human society. human you're not going to mean the meaning of the of the of the person. be him a man and a woman. used to his family. so his society his country the world and got and that is and that is absolutely in every civilization in the rosen and what we are nearing now. is. that of some of those asian because. and that is their core problem which the western societies

face and that's why i am very much concerned about that and because we are there much part now of the western civilization however i'm happy that we're turning east and this isn't some of the that is who have you know i would say it but it's also turned from this was asian which is probably now which will probably bring us today gravitation while mr carr going to france a fascinating topic to consider but let's take a very short break right now we're back in just a few moments. the

british and american governments have often been accused of destroying lives in their own interests what you see in this these techniques is the state devising methods to him to essentially destroy personality of an individual. by scientific. this is how one doctor's theories were allegedly used in psychological warfare against prisoners deemed a danger to the state that was the foundation the method of psychological interrogation psychological torture. disseminated with. in the u.s. intelligence community and worldwide among our allies for the next 30 years. the victims say they still live with the consequences.

since it other than. pay them in. other words the money to let. a. croc get. types to use a pen in. the in the next. moment going to have. been. used if you get in though it is a. little village in the midst of it but again it was on those on the a. welcome

back to worlds apart oppressed and gay crackdown that didn't have this call up world economics and international relations of the car school of economics in moscow it's a crime going to before the break we touched upon this very touchy subject of the enlightenment values which many of the new western movements be for gender right. it's a racial right so the rights of the minorities put the dissenter and you said they are misinterpreting it i would suggest an alternative explanation because i think. it is impossible to become a self-sufficient thinking adult person of without sustaining some trauma and reality is always more than in human psychology can bear but what those. movements

are doing is lionizing and instrumental lising the trauma rather than the human spirit which can overcome trauma and in this sense it's indeed inhumane because it actually suppresses the human spirit for some instrumentalists goal but why do you think it's so widespread why do you think so many people are in sync with that. or 1st of all so maybe. it is. in the us and countries these neglectable minorities in the humanity in the whole of humanity. but the to do exists for the reasons one of the reasons which you mention but i agree with with the question which. is of course that we have been living through the. long period of comfortable. life without big wars you mean that we or people

in the west there with who we we we we the people. in the west we also show they belong but most of the people most of the pupils i mean there were some that is will never will never be influential in africa all that an american missionary and i think this is a very important point because there are many. values or sort of world views that we genuinely share with the europeans but there is a great. difference in that our history is far more traumatic has been far more traumatic than there is over the last let's say a 100 here is and you know there is an expression i think in both russia and in ways that man's suffering is cuts up or change i mean the more you suffer and the better you understand human nature at the end of the day the more in tash with the reality you are and i think this is also one of the ideas that you. elaborate on

your writing that the west has essentially been fascinated by those ideas because it hasn't had real problems for a very long time. one of the prong that is one of the militias another nation of course is that. their own kind of injustices and balances in them in most societies including the us and societies and the ruling circles. the elite whomever you cone are using all these strange ideologies. to disunite the people. to distract them from real problems number the waco covered is one of the greatest examples of how people destructing hearing him from office no it is no it is not a but is it is a problem but it is a problem say 40 percent of that 2030 percent is that it

by more than media and 30 percent of course artificial we have pumped up in order to distract people from those real problems in their lives in the end these and these ideals is which we have some of them which you have mentioned are of course dividing people who are making i mean cutting them from themselves by the way from history there is a widespread belief here in russia that the racial justice moment in the united states was used to. get rid of trump and i wonder if it's perhaps a bit broader than this because presenting racism as the main source of all america's evils also allows those transnational elites shift the focus from globalization which in the real in the real fear to fickle terms undermined the middle class and exacerbated in quote income inequality regardless

of race i wonder if all these efforts to a patrol trump on his base as racist are really about that views on race or is it perhaps war about their views on globalization that is all because. i mean these elites or some of the bigots who. were born out and born by going to position are fighting for their turf and that's why they openly or discretely support. all these movements by the way i mean. black or less measure is also his or the salutes are me in that situation with the black or i mean racial discrimination is everyone's filming and it is everybody's moment i mean but of course it wouldn't have been anywhere close to. their prominence ms also in europe or even in the countries i do you know we should have haven't had any problems with reese's do you think it's mostly political or

economic in any it is both political economic and it is destruction from real problems which have been building up is one of the ways of distrusting from real problems which built the however a reflects a real problem now i want to mention one more of these ethical narratives that appeal to our better angels but they also serve somebody else's bottom lines this is. a pair of environmental isn't vs jane in concern for the environment where is the difference for you. oh it was all i mean environmentalism as a religion which is becomes as a is not about of course in them though it helps i mean those who care for them ironman. but let me just give you a very simple example i mean all these rooms which are being into use in your. pushing away i mean the production of goods elsewhere but

then they come back and europe or they're to say it's consume all these goods they are pushing away the problems but they are no no no no no wait a 2nd they consume all this because then they ship all this waste you know we're seeing yes but always a lot of the last just those are the real thing all it is is i mean by the way it's all. by oprah because i consume too much have too many rooms and so hose why on earth do that and the other one of those who are. preaches but not practice and you know there will be i know i have to practice a of course i try to serve its interests at ricks but because i lived in the food through that period of excessive consumption there especially coming from very well to do but relatively. scars. a lot of mint and

soviet union and when it opened up i started to consume to watch and now i understand it was absolutely a mystery why but it we can joke about this but this is actually a major problem because it's not only the problem of wasteful spending all this consumption makes people sick than it's written assess that they are spending more resources on curing them and they end of the day the resources of the planet are indeed finite and they have already reached their limit absolutely contouri plays this system because as you talk about this crisis of crisis you understand if you cannot destroy. everything immediately you will have to start somewhere making adjustments where is that area where adjustments are 1st for dozens of areas on my table those are the reporters who are now preparing and the bills to some of the government but who which will cause assist the server. it is of course 1st of all i

mean. leave it to excessive consumption i'm a liberal one doesn't mean that he's the returning to planning economy and telling people you can only eat one apple has no i mean if you want to buy 2nd the whole home or i mean you have to pay for that i mean thrice that says if you want to. hold booze which i. know that beyond a certain level could be should be taxed. or you're welcome but then you have to pay and the money is collected from that these taxes could be used to your environment too could be sent to medicine and elsewhere but that is one of the ways but then they will start to change people's minds because before that we were. pushed towards consumption now it is this survival of the planet plan and transnational elites and those big corporate enterprise and now using to continue their course and i think they're pretty awful

and that they see a national governments as impediment for themselves i mean if you look at some of the documents produced by the world economic forum and i was it's pretty clear that you know corporate elites blame all the social ills on governments how do you see these very real tension between national and transnational elites evolving in the next 10 years i think that the nation of these will be winning for the time being i've been in the business phone so remember when people probe of a signing that does a shell corporations. and juice will run the world. was young person i was also in the faith aided by these ideas where these term social corporations they are fighting for the turf but now they have moved. almost all of them are marching on the command of the of the governments of strongest countries

if the countries are weak i mean then of course they will be we can even further but this time not by the transnational corporations by the but their own social corporations more and more governed by governments and these the so i mean solar and it will be a very expensive. commodity and only a few countries will be able to afford it russia one software that you mentioned if those corporations are usually under the control of the government and obviously we know that they the main country here is the united states because at that has very strong transnational elites it has an emerging new media companies or contribute a great deal to. making peoples hour around the world more how how margin is regardless of their claims and support for diversity in the case of the united states who is the dog and who is the tail. there were then there was

a rouge and. the nation ill leads and and of major business trump roche of course it was doing not only by the levy elites but by the common folk. for the time being. is being had been pushed away but i think that the sooner or later he or. she will reappear because. countries would not and even the united states could not afford any more so than their friends that are special interest. transnationals when they say that we have they are paying for europeans not paying for their for their security. that is common sense europeans has not been paying but the system benefited benefited us national corporations and now i think. with biden or with not with biden it

is a retreat but trump is and will win by trump and you mean being the sort of be uprising of the common folks at a polling and the. nation's capital. these are the transnationals and the way of the one of the reasons why there is such a hatred towards russia or china is that now previously those sort of national. elites were governing except for soviet space. but now i mean they have the best sense of independence toward it which are showing that you could do without them or well b.o.o.b. and independent but one of the main reasons why. there was such an attack on russia few years ago and who accuse of being on the edge of hearing and merican the action that was there. in the willingness of this ruling elite to

take on the control the media corporations and the old days for years they have been fighting to take control over their well but at the end of the wall and now it is interesting and now when they overthrew trump and invent term whether it was a truce or was the victory of the state over in the state it is a very interesting subject for the next conversation absolutely it unfortunately we have to live in there but it's always a pleasure talking to thank you very much and thank you for watching hope to see you again next week on all of the part. barbaric.

leg. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to us from the

world of politics sport i'm sure i'll see you then. in the headlines this sunday morning from moscow i mean he is prime minister raises the stakes this week. to dismiss the country's top general to the president. setting the stage for a constitutional showdown as crowds in the capital continue. as people refuse vaccination over. the same time as the world health organization. the world health organization special envoy to.