i magine are tense and you want to know the log then additional going underground is the united states assumes the presidency of the un security council but how will the usa use its role to advance the nato military alliance allegations against nato nations are rife in a new documentary speaking truth to power charting the rise of platinum selling artists tankian of system of a down he joins me now from los angeles so welcome to this lockdown edition of going on the grounds of tell me about truth to power in the old age old question can the music change the world i sure hope so. so truth to power is a documentary of an activist journey starting from when that activist myself does not have a large voice without music as

a coconspirator and then music and the success of the band system of a down gives me the ability to project that message and activism and then you see the results of that activism and also the repercussions of an activism on an artist within the film. because the 1st 20 minutes are you know i'm not saying stand a rock human tree because there's an element of identity culture the armenian quarter of los angeles and hollywood and then suddenly 911 changes everything in the program right well it was kind of like that in our band's career as well because we launched our 2nd record toxicity right as 911 hit and it really changed the complete landscape our song was off the radio along with everyone else's song clear channel at the time had censored a lot of songs off the radio and yet we still had the number one record on billboard in the united states with a song called chop suey which talked about a self-righteous suicide you might have to remind people why on earth your music

was banned after 911 because in the in this film i mean the idea that you specifically were questioning u.s. foreign policy and somehow. you get accused of. so most supporting 911 i wrote an essay called understanding oil what i was trying to do is understand how something like this could happen in the 1st place and part of that was trying to unravel to 50 years of unjust propping up of dictators us foreign policy and basically calling for a multilateral approach to deal with the issue not some jingoistic kind of you know cowboy response to the whole thing which is kind of what was going on with the invasion of afghanistan and iraq which you know iraq specifically had nothing to do with it and the whole pretense of weapons of mass destruction that never existed so you know it was a reaction to that at the time and knowing that this is just another this might

serve as another ploy to. to to turn into a resource acquisition type of thing for the u.s. rather than truly bringing justice and that's what i was interested in and trying to understand it and it had a huge backlash back req lash because you know people were not ready for that there was a lot of reactionism going on a lot of flag waving a lot of. patriotism but also not really understanding what was going on you know there were a few artists that spoke out along with myself and the band donna spoke out maynard from tool spoke out the dixie chicks spoke out but it was a handful of artists and we all got backlash for it. yeah dixie chicks got into a lot of trouble how was the atmosphere in the band system of a down because after all us foreign policy questions were raised well just by dylan but the clash of course the great british band members you know band must be aware of how music has long been associated with these deeper foreign policy questions.

you know the band the band generally been supportive of the a but there are times where it's you know it works against the music which is what the film portrays because not only do you lose fans that may disagree with you but you know you might get death threats and you know a lot of reactionism prevailing and that's what happened right after i wrote that essay called understanding oil and i was on the howard stern show trying to protect defend my words and kind of show my intentions and what was going on the band set me down it was the beginning of a tour loop we were on tour a week after 911 with all these are red and orange danger signs on television george bush getting on t.v. and saying that there might be other terrorist attacks large numbers of congregations were in front of 20000 kids a night you know it was scary. but the band got you know brought me in and they're like what are you doing to try to get us killed like what you're crazy you're smart guy are you trying to get us killed you know and i was just naive lee i was like

but it's the truth it's the truth and that's been my defense and and skep you know . critic criticism because i'm always fighting for the truth irrespective of what public opinion may or may not say you had support is tell me about rick rubin famous for run d.m.c. and other bands. rick was it yeah rick's our producer for system of a down he's produced all 5 records of the band a very good friend and he was very supportive of the political undertone undertones and social political actions of the band he understood it he is a he is a fan of the clash and all these bands you know political bands and he understood that that's a part of what we do along with all the other you know musical. kind of gymnastics and everything that the band is known for. so he's always been supportive i mean he's gone from hip hop to johnny cash to chili peppers to us and so many different

you know pop icons and yeah and then you get michael moore i mean stall if you get michael moore who already thank the dixie chicks on the also has to direct this video with. our old prime minister here tony blair you still think just talking about how we should deal with coronavirus actually and bush for a tell me about getting michael moore on board right so i had met michael in new york through a good friend of mine's number a look around rage against the machine and when we were when we were putting out our 3rd record which was called the old us record was the old us album sorry we i thought of using that song the song boom was a political song about dropping bombs and the effects of you know dropping bombs literally and you know i thought it would be a great idea to get michael moorcock directed by we got a lot of it was a difficult road to try to get the label to help pay for especially since we didn't want to release it as a single it was in a commercial effort and so there was

a lot of challenges there but we were able to get it michael agreed sends an amazing team out to los angeles to tape us joining the anti-war protests that happened before the iraq war started and then put the video together and the video i want to say landed on m.t.v. the day before or the day of the war starting against iraq so what happened to axis of justice now because i was with tom morello ready against the machine. yes it's a nonprofit organization that tom and i started years ago to bring kind of. fighters of just the you know seekers of justice as well and music fans together in the same space well i have to go back now to the beginning of the film is it was song hunting again and again and that's your armenian heritage to be to the news because i'm going to karabakh of course recently why does the country i'm speaking to you from the country you're speaking to me from not see the math because as the

armenian genocide well the united states congress formally recognized the armenian genocide in december 2019 both houses of congress so the u.s. has recognized the armenian genocide as britons turn to recognize your meaning genocide. you know russia's recognize the armenian genocide european parliament's recognized genocide the vatican number of countries around the world most of europe a lot of south america. i don't you have to tell me why britain hasn't recognized the army genocide i would say that there are too many cozy relationships with b.p. a survey john turkey having to do with the gas corridor the southern gas corridor and it's basically playing geopolitics and using genocide as political capital which is discussed you know he denies it is in the united states didn't sign off on the congressional approval all this phrase the armenian genocide i mean how do you define genocide and tell us what happened where you can look up the definition for

genocide it's basically getting rid of an ethnic race religious or ethnic race intentionally and that is exactly what happened during world war one when turkey decided to massacre one and a half 1000000 armenians greeks and assyrians as part of their plan right the day before and sacked forces landed in the political. and so you know the armenian genocide has been something that you know i've been. i've learned from my grandparents all 4 member all 4 grandparents of mine are survivors of the armenian genocide and for growing up heard their horrific stories about how their families perished and and what they had to live through and you know my my grandfather grew up as an orphan you know the reason i was born in lebanon is because of the armenian genocide because we were displaced as a people the majority of armenians living in diaspora outside of armenia because of the genocide. it's a huge national grieving for us and in 2015 i'm proud to say that with system of

a down we played armenia for the 1st time 100 commemoration of the armenian genocide and it was an incredible show it felt like we were designed to be there like almost built to play that show if nothing in our career made any other sense that night made the most sense in the world because it was a show where we were able to disseminate the truth about the genocide to the world because it was streamed live on rolling stone not comics outre and it was a show where we can also lend support to the people there of vying for a better life for themselves under a post all the dark a corrupt kind of government so it did many many things that entertained and it you know made those type of differences at the same time you know we'll get to that gig and what happened afterward a moment but why do you think president obama and well biden was is vice president

they refused to be convinced at the time of the obama administration that there would i mean you know the phrase i mean genocide is not right. candidate obama had used the word genocide and had scrutinized criticized george w. bush for not using a term as president when he became president there there were these protocols called the turkish army and protocols that were supposed to bring peace to the area but they were not well thought out and i might even say that there were an attempt for you know genocide denial by turkey and so they convinced the administration that these 2 countries might be getting closer to a relationship through these protocols and therefore it might be best not to recognize history as what it is which was a mistake samantha powers who recognize who was the u.n. ambassador will tell you it was a mistake and i think biden after recognition of the armenian genocide by the u.s.

congress i think that by going in ministration is in a much better position to speak truth to history i mean do you expect that any moment now they're going to finally do you could have done it by executive order you know now i do i think it look today that we commemorate the genocide as april 24th every year which is when. they started kind of rounding up. intellectuals in the stumble and putting them in on train cars to be shipped to their death. and so you know that's the day we commemorated and that's the day that we anticipate and expect president biden to formally recognize the genocide. well as i say as we know turkey denies it at disturbing a moment early on the underside also denies attacking ourselves with azerbaijan and syrian mercenaries turkey keeps on denying everything so that doesn't mean i think they did and i don't want to show in fact and in fairness some

of those mercenaries are linked to british backed. in the in the syrian war we've investigated that on the program so just stop you there more from the system down from man about speaking truth to power after this break plus we hear from the former turkish ambassador to the u.k. . joining me every 1st day on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to a guest of the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then. are all those driven by the dream of.

the day or thinks. they are going to ask. since that other day when. they pay for them is going. to let them do so. thank. you that's. just the type to punish when i mean that. mom i'm going to have. always been. there you can feel good in though it. will. be good again it was on those on the.

welcome back i'm still here with the down lead singer says thank you since a lot of what we're talking about is the whole being in a sense tell me about that great legendary land records boss that's again famous for ray charles that zeppelin and you you came to suspect him he would deny any lobbying well that's the that's the funny thing i didn't sixpack them at all it 1st i had a band that we had signed to my imprint my label and there were a number of record companies interested in doing a distribution deal so we met up with universal records atlantic records at the time and a few others in new york with the band. and after the meeting i remember the c.e.o. of atlantic taking me saying hey do you want to meet the old man he's still here his office is right next door i'm like going to look at love to he signed re charles and led zeppelin and all these bands so i went and sat down with them and

had a nice 10 minute chat and you know i can't tell you anything else but i got an inkling that he had some defensive aspect of me being armenian when i said listen just so you know i'm armenian you know i grew up in los angeles and you know this that and he kind of got the offensive and it didn't really affect me much so i got on google and i typed america gun and i typed genocide after and i realized that he had been responsible for funding foreign policy institutes and chairs at universities who hired authors and writers that denied the genocide and that was an awakening for me . who i thought will be to fans of fans of the music arguably i'm sure he would say he was just finding what he sees as the truth back to you after of think long you know he called me and he said yeah he said i think the armenian genocide should be recognized and i said ok great why don't you write it on

a letterhead and send it to me and i won't publicize it until unless my back is against the wall with my community and he said i can't do that because i have homes in turkey i don't know what would happen to you know to that and i'm like then don't do it i wouldn't want any violence and acted upon you or your family or anyone else but he was very clear that that was an incendiary issue and even though he was very close he said to the prime minister and government officials there he didn't want to take that's going to us here what do you think of the what would your great grandfather thought about how your action on trying to get countries to recognize the armenian genocide leads you to be in armenia like you said doing that gig and then being welcomed in some kind of hero because not only if he made enough enemies talking about. these crimes as you see it you then criticize post soviet all agog corruption in armenia. i look in 2018 armenia

experienced a very unique positive event for our history it was the velvet peaceful revolution of 2018 we have helped. documented in another documentary called i am not alone and you know i've i've been very active politically against injustice everywhere in the world where there's in the u.s. whether it's around the world always speaking truth to power if you will and and army as well you know we had a post soviet all the guard kick really corrupt regime that really stifled people's vision you know their they couldn't get justice in the course they acted with their feet as they say and they left the country there was a lot of the population and it was very very it was a horrible situation and i'm just going to rush now to 11 other element of injustice here over the past few days then when israeli warplane flights only your birthplace lebanon to bomb syria just remind us what is

a song occupied he is on how rick perry will why did you write that song you know the bernie sanders was accused of anti semitism when he talked about the israeli occupation of palestine occupied tears talks about you know it basically talks about the need to create peace in israel and palestine it talks about the concerns of both sides but it does talk about the injustice and the kind of single one sided support by the u.s. for israeli policies in the area and you know that's an injustice of spoke against many times as well you know i think we need to really you know an activist has to be an activist with everything you know because the truth is prevalent prevalent everywhere we look yes finally i mean system of a down fans are going to be disappointed there's no full new album coming out but there is an e.p. on march 19th. yes i'm putting out an e.p. called to last the city on march 19th the 1st song title track elasticity is

already out and with a video by a good friend of mine he produced a video his name is ilya nice schuler's a great director and a good friend of mine and a system of down also put on tues put out 2 songs during the war in ourself in the going a lot of as a way of bringing attention to the truth of what was actually happening and to fight a survey john this information and box on social media we've also gathered a large amount of money to donate to non-profits in armenia for retrofitting soul soldiers with prosthetics who had lost prosthetics to drone attacks as well as laser therapy for soldiers suffering from white phosphorous band weapon and weaponry burns dropped by as are many army. well there's a by johnny government of course disputes this previous fact so staggering thank you well let's now hear from veteran tucker's diplomat the form of taxation method to the u.k. have

a cause who currently serves as the vice president to his main opposition party the republican people's party thank you ambassador for coming on so we just heard from surges treated like a hero obviously in armenia is pressuring the biden government in the united states to think that biden that alone johnson here is going to recognize the armenian genocide you think that's a good idea or do you think that's going to happen doc if they don't happen because it's already a contentious issue and they're all to be his administration's all be a previous presidents have always been strong their agenda. survey will give support to this it's that they've been a different game i think they have used the word mess yet again something left that there is the armenian work which is that i don't think that it's waiting to be used by a by the i mean 'd it worked genocide is going ringback to be used. by them because he has been in the west as in the past and he has to him on this.

acquainted. issue between turkey and armenia and there particularly during the obama presidency. the 2 countries were very close to finalize protocols were signed they were very close to finalize this understanding that respect unfortunately didn't put out so the president by them give probably take it from that position when it is obama administration has left it so people probably try to keep things under control the turkish. 37 station i don't think that is going to create any of the protests because we have already built. difficulty is actually in the united states and quite quite a few probably one time now to go into all the different bilateral issues obama promised to recognize it is a genocide biden promise to recognize it is

a genocide congress said it was. this is all a sign of turkish power in nato is that why u.s. presidents keep breaking their promises i don't think it's about nato nato is of course or going to. be nights together 'd for more than 60 years now but i think it is not a matter of nato it is a matter of understanding what it issues. mean the story events and turkey has always argued that this is something to link the. history of the 2 countries to india i mean yes and and this should be left to or sank or just almost an arsenal the way the russian government sees it as you know well i mean mad to nato do you think this time around biden could argue with her to one and say we're already on the happy about the russian has 400 deal if you don't if you don't

change your mind about russian defensive weapons arriving in turkey we will recognize the armenian genocide i don't see this is comparable. to independent comparable but. yes it is a very different issue and i think as for how the issue is going to be made as a main action that i can do you know the states it back the secretary general make those of them back i mean again mention that each and every member of nato has almost the independent right to choose its own defense oversee and to procure any. to master your diplomat m.s.e. or a diplomat you know that there are conversations probably going on in whitehall down the road from where i am this notice through the learned leader in washington it does not take the air by by. general i think that is a matter of nato should be turkey and they took it as still refer to as it should

be turkey and the united states and i think that's the reason why turkey is unfortunate that they see these concepts sanctions now from the united states so they did remain 'd as an issue between turkey and the end states some members of nato mention that decision for turkey to procure discipline this was of course creating some serious security to make sure but this is very simply to be handled in turkey and the united states don't give way the mate has proposed that neither should perhaps mediate it be turkey and united states to resolve this sure. we have not that we have not to see any incursion steps forward from just from the 4 minute wait organization one of the other allegations as tank him of the band system of a down made was that turkey has been hiring is a mr marson reason from the war on syria on how assad of course backed by britain

and the united states to fight in azerbaijan against armenia. in the not going to care about conflict is that true you know the president macro has backed that. accusation up that is appeared in the international press and i think you. also mention the syrian opposition misha or syrian opposition or human rights mission but this is being refute the fact is that you know how many if you sat and like the character we have to rely on weapons and what he said to what the french president on about what is the french president talking about he said 300 syrian islam is militants now from aleppo deployed to nagorno-karabakh you may have perhaps you've heard of the news we should be circulated by certain of separation missions but i do not know what kind of evidence he has and that space but it was actually there but how might he have made it clear that this post just an

allegation that it reacted so probably in michigan i don't but in how many of us that when you think about the by did ministrations view of syria more generally do you think he'll start up a war again maybe back islam ists again against i think the isis is coming back and this is going to be referred to by a. lady u.s. administration and there probably isn't going to be a very serious issue there could be pursued by bike and steam but souci any united states are actually the operating in the east or your great east and 'd even every appearance on isis happens i think they will be equal coordination between turkey and the united states is that there is a danger there and there i think it isis is also coming back in bases they are out as well so this is going to be a mean agent that i am for by the station men present by them when you as you heard

of the foreign policy. his visit at the state department even then told them about the middle east so we estimate in 4 to grant me this that it's to meet pronounced by the by that decision he has there already made that phone number see. i mean is that then i mean this as any of that act and i think he has i have a little bit spoken about. someone also get it yeah and then there are probably. other. facts that is not it. or well. middle east studies that you heard from but by the mistakes you saw our ambassador thank you that's if it is going underground we'll be back on wednesday with yemeni nobel laureate telescope on the future.

they are tactics that can be used to get innocent people to confess to crimes they didn't commit i don't even think people in the us really get that the police are allowed to lie to the person who falsely fast actually came to believe the lie that they were told about their own behavior once a false confession is taken the case is closed and nobody really can tell the

difference between a good confession and one that isn't. breaking news on our t.v. political unrest in armenia grows as protesters stormed government buildings in central europe and. also in the headlines several countries in europe are rocked by violent protests after a tightening of one of our skirts. plus we look into the plight of the kobe the long haul are still experiencing health problems in the months after getting the coronavirus. and the proposal by the israeli government to use electronic tags to ensure people sell price late when returning to the country is matched with a mixed reaction.