sponsibility for political defeat on the shoulders of the military is an acceptable and even those who are absent from the streets today they understand that there is no future with the current government so all in all it's quite tense situation it's unclear how other countries go on this it is indeed on the week's political turmoil . more great programs get going in moments find out what's on offer where you are today after the short break to close this is. the world is driven by dreamers shaped by the person.

thinks. we dare to ask. i'm ashen returns here we're going underground for a special lockdown episode as britain one of the world's top financial services capitals issued new budget plans got to see a former goldman sachs johnson a risky so knock they join the show will be getting analysis rocks of universities professor danny dorling in the consult and editor of the london daily mail p.s. but 1st joining me now from seafood in the sussex is the biographer of towering 20th century economist john maynard keynes. welcome to going underground i want

to get on to what you describe as a silent revolution going on there in this country about economics but as to this week's budget what do you make of it continued feeling amongst commentators certainly that. we must understand the economics of a nation is the economics of a a grocery shop. yeah well that's the that's the standard line isn't it i mean they're not they're not connected the purpose of the budget is to balance to concert the nation that's what the purpose of a government's budget is and therefore it is the only grace show up so to speak it alone has access to money and it can print so in that sense the government isn't a tool like a grocer's shop a grocery shop your shop has to go to a bank if it gets into debt it borrows from bank it has to repay government to have to repay government can borrow without limits technically it can simply print the

money it wants to spend now that is a fact whether it wise to do so when you want to stop it by law from doing those kinds of things that's a different matter but it can do it and if it wants to spend 300000000000 in supporting the economy during the cove it it will spend $300000000000.00 and it'll tell the bank of england to provide the money which is in fact what the bank of england's been doing it's been financing the whole of the kovac 19 pandemic follow expenditure you say the standard view when does it come from i mean you can. assure us all at the back of england we're go all the city police city of london police and arrest the chancellor of the exchequer view doesn't balance the books no he won't do that the governor of the bank can go to the chancellor and say look

you've given me an inflation target. i've got to make sure that inflation doesn't rise above 2 percent that's of the bank of england governor says now i think he says to the chancellor you're spending too much money and therefore risking that inflation is going to go off 2 percent now you've given me the mandate to keep it to 2 percent therefore if you go on spending money at the rate your doing i will shove up interest rates and i will shove them up to any extent necessary any extent necessary to meet my inflation target and that means the money you borrow will the cost of the money you borrow chancellor will go up and up and up and in the end un be able to afford it any longer and much of it was which of course he will do despite him being an independent governor underbelly is this corruption between the so-called independence of the governor of the bank of

england chancellor issues and some people would call it cool usually between a bank there and the treasury but the banks and others to call it coordination and cooperation and and and therefore not not challenging the independence of the bank what the bank would say zoners the government spending doesn't push us up against our inflation target we are prepared to go on financing it without a loss of independence it's only if the government spending threatens to push prices up bombed the banks to get that the bank will then say stop. we do not want you to go on now whether the government pays any attention so that in the last resort any sovereign government can tell a bank to do what you want in the last resort and that's what you've got extent

there's never a bank independence even the european central bank in the end it's the most independent central bank there is if the council of ministers spawn the set which sped up with what you're doing you've got to do this rather than that there's no way an unelected banker can you know tell the politicians go to hell well you know show him christine legarde the former i.m.f. was knowing running the european central bank do you think the reason i used the word corruption is the word collusion is that the accusations are leveled the chancellor issues an ak about corruption whether it be known domicile status he denies all wrongdoing of course why do you think he he well small businesses say attacked businesses the head of the c.b.i. saying that hacking as a whole business is that right rises in business tax and left amazon facebook the massive beneficiaries of the current

a virus pandemic relatively untouched as regards tax well i think they haven't decided on a policy a proper policy towards the big that forms and they don't have a policy this is not to be international. i mean these are global these a global things you can't just do you can do small businesses they're your own they're your own concern you can do what you like with them preserve an economic historian what's that like looking as you find out that say the 20 pounds extra on universal credit for the poorest and the 20 percent of the british population is living in poverty that that 20 pounds over come the autumn and yet those companies. we have to give them time to for an international consensus about taxation for the richest companies on a well that's that's the reality of it i mean politics is the art of the possible isn't it it wasn't macchiavelli who said that just macchiavelli who said that but

everyone said it never once known it you can it's much easier to tax small people than to tax large people have got to have more political will more more cooperation to do it i'm not saying you should but it's just a bigger bigger bigger job and of course it's right people on universal credit should get more we did a report on that in parliament and it was intolerable were an awful lot they were doing to claimants but now they've only they have now only done the many raised it temporally. the upper limit and they should make it permanent. so yes i'm not i'm not i'm always you know the government says giving up the government says it's giving in other ways it is giving to this 20 percent of the population. that are under the poverty line. what do you think also that there is 00 pounds budgeted for the effect of the pandemic

come the next fiscal year well this is a very very serious point you say. is going to go on until until september he's an hour and that says going to extra $60000000000.00 but what they're expecting is that the further money will tail off as the economy recovers so as the and the for cost is that we'll be back to where we were before bye bye by the middle of next year why do they think the economy's going to recover so quickly because they think there's a lot of pent up demand that there's a lot of savings that people haven't been able to spend and then as the shops and entertainment places reopen people will flock to these places with the extra spending power and that'll make the whole thing revived but if you look at it realistically i'm very skeptical about this because national income has fall it's

fallen by 10 percent cent in 2020 that means savings of their own you know some people will have extra savings but what about all those whose incomes half full they're not going to have extra spending power that's an interesting way of looking at it obviously is not the way the former goldman sachs banker is she sort of looks at it i mean i have to ask the biographer of keynes what do you think john maynard keynes would have thought of the british government instituting a thought of soviet system of firm or effectively i mean presume he knew the cambridge spies but do you think he would be amused or do you think he would have backed or do you think he would have been surprised by a response which involved the soviet ties ation of the country in the sense of for . well you know there are many ways he would have he would have wanted the economy supported while there was this big downturn sure but how you support it whether you

supported by giving people. a paid holiday or an indefinite amount of time and just paying their wages whether you do it that way or whether you try and give them work you see what we've forgotten about as the old concept of public works i mean in some spin for hand when when the government spent money to spend money on keeping people in work and if they were being made on employed by their companies the government did work now and i'm in favor of a work work guarantee for people especially for young people and as we come out of cohabit i would have much preferred instead of the firm no money going on and on and on until september that some of it to tenney right was given to local authorities and and with that with the with the mandates spend it on what you need doing in your area there one of the world leading arms exporter this and there's an arms credit guarantee fund and public works. kent keynesian militaristic public

works. obviously manifest in the war on yemen selling weapons to saudi arabia the building of weapons the trident obviously a multi-billion pound expansion there do you think that's the way the government to seeing your keynesian public work expansion leno i don't think so because i think that's normal we're talking about people who are being made on employed because small businesses are closing going bankrupt and or cutting down on their stuff and rather than keeping that population on 1st. i would try and provide work for them and especially young people it in it's it's not just the headline unemployed that will to be worrying about their lots and lots of people on short time work part time work there's 20101520 percent of the

population which is really only very low precarious income people again the government might come back at you and say well in this week's budget there was plenty of talk of free ports and the idea of us being i don't know like. caribbean tax haven in the north sea. you don't think that could be one post bricks a future that would benefit the people you're talking about well i think i think there's a good a very very very promising the i dare say people i mean it's good. you know it's not going to it's not going to do anything for us in the next year it goes back to the enterprise zones that was started in in the thatcher periods in over 5 years of cool shit so barry very good at it i'd add i'd actually report i'd have hong kong hong kong abroad just for people in the u.k.

because lots of people. leaving leaving wanting to leave hong kong because of the new regulations and the oppressive regulations given in the most reports in the u.k. so i think the whole idea is good but it's not going to solve the problem of the collapse of an economy of 10 percent that's happened this year and it's not going to guarantee any rapid recovery nets year olds could elsie thank you after the break more on a budget in a country with some of the poorest financial and medical coronavirus records in the world.

welcome back to this u.k. budget special let's go straight to oxford to speak to oxford university as well from akin to professor danny dorling his latest book a slowdown the end of the great acceleration president calling thanks so much for coming back on the show you've written a book of the book about wealth disparity who has money who doesn't receive sooner what did you make of his budget you think he deliberately wants to punish the poor or he doesn't understand your work or he sees a different world to yours. i'd be amazed if which he seemed that could ever come across my work i doubt it's recommended to him some of his officials tell him that what he's doing is reducing inequalities and it's possible that he may not realize they're not telling him the truth if last year when he did the budget last year they produced a report saying oh look at the reduction we've done in income inequality but to the

polls they reference they've said it didn't increase so the government mislead self chanceless the exchequer repeatedly in the conservative party mislaid themselves that somehow and using the gap they're not and certainly this budget they have that the i.f.'s of come out their strongest ever criticism of any budget is this budget over what it does even the baby say. it was very doubtful about any claims being made this budget would in some way help poor people you case a man in the b.b.c. haven't heard of them there who are some talk about an 800000000000 missed in the treasury recently i mean this is civil servants a servant or advisors who might be misinforming the chancellor if we are going to forgive him for threatening the removal of universal credit increases of 20 pounds in the autumn i think in in the treasury over time chances of become surrounded by a particular set of civil servants with particular set of beliefs ones that fit the

conservative party so for instance a lot of money has been spent on the budget trying to prop up house prices again a new kind of help to buy the kind of prices are as possible and the certainty of belief in the treasury that the higher house prices are the better business doing so you can see they have money to spend when they want to spend it they can reduce taxes on stamp duty again to try to keep house prices i these are deliberate choices over their priorities but they can't keep 20 pounds a week extra universal credit after september. you know the civil servants all say and the cabinet secretary would say they are completely impartial they've always been impartial and forget the idea of continually encouraging the housing market and the freezing of fuel duty that environmentalist on about 3000000000 on the n.h.s. is still going to go on the long term plan and the chancellor on said criticism

about fraser in n.h.s. spending would saying 40 hospitals 50000 nurses 20000 police i'm not sure that's to replace the nearly 1000 people revolt it's also lay out election campaign. not like weaver i think i've been hearing about these 40 hospitals where over 2 years now they will be a bit. we don't know how big that they have a very small but 40 of all that's all it doesn't get you are all service we're spending let's spread or gerry's for your schools is a sound that always johnson used in this election let me even come up with a new soundbite let alone to get it. and just very briefly on coronavirus i know you've written about the geographical spread of it and an enormous relatively low number obviously britain is the worst in europe in london as compared to areas of the countryside do you think that will continue. well

hopefully we have on the state of downward slope. and hopefully this is towards the end of pandemic but it's not just the worst in europe. we are near the top of the worst in the world. 18 that for every 10000 people who were alive at the start of 2020 the death toll from the pandemic is now around the same level as the death toll from austerity in the years before the preventive which which i p p r said was 131000 people so we've had by far the worst pandemic outcome in europe and that's despite having had seen so many frail elderly people die before the pandemic began president going thank you will the morris don't think government budget here in the u.k. will arguably be seen through the lens of our only garko media joins me now from london is andrew pearce consultant editor of one of britain's and the world's most

clicked media organizations the daily mail and jury thanks for coming back on going underground as lock down special budget edition what did you may give people an universal credit they'll lose their 20 quid or term and i don't know if you have shares in facebook or amazon the great news is. alleged tax dodgers. well there are less hassle using veils ass of use and i was very disappointed this chancery she said you know that who is who had to say oh you are probably even more difficult to crash easy 1008 because when i tell you that i mean injure me less. about. these even more complicated for a prime minister do you know if the ceremony all several are all serious for the enemy is not security rishi will you not see that i'm the prime minister loose coalition government united causes united this is different we cannot see the

deadly enemy sir yet graceful hands at length he resists the all the sensations of the last axes straightaway so. will go our special next year after that since as he 3 will be friends be how he corporations that horrify it yes on one hand because they have to raise as hats. on the corporations crawfish rather than wacky on the a c. wacky old people's even sas war v.a.c. is no mean corporation to have a profit to have inthe corporations businesses who have profits above $50000.00 pounds a year the messages per se is a massive 250000 r.c.s. if you're below that you'll be ok but up already sensi 1000000 pounds at this task site from one issue i can recall in a very long time i have

a hunch you know i see this each year e r 3 share less she said she $23.00 which is low bad news is person off and still had only nest year we're expecting gross unprecedented seminar that is dramatic now he's got a dramatic arc to the. story it's actually called only all code which. or worse. 300 years so dramatically increase growth next year ok jobs back. then groups are selling 7073 and boris johnson the silver leader says i'm the man and i'm the man when of course even the speaker allows a commons said. here's your budget speech rishis or neck but most of it i mean in the press earlier how do you think the earth tones is viewing the p.r. spin coming from number 11 downing 3 heap credit is due soon asshole's the

work never has a chance and as it so much use economies in such a bad place the days are not all truth. that war. is such a lawsuit disability got and if he needs the shots it's easy just to be successful boris yeltsin yes winston s. an action he prices leader next actually good to see is i eat the word out badly yes it got me worried and he wants to get out into the crowd he says it will become all pseudo very quickly he johnson even johnson's my leg he think johnson minority. yes i see you don't see that question in this. post that a nice on story and says he's innocent mary cary lost much remarkably about the moustache the post people say since it was no use are here is about

us. really. isn't that assay as in again soon or that he's on his economic policy to get racing corporations ass governments he's hiring who pose. seems excessive. areas of the year you will now need the 40 percent people. were disagreeing here me there he said remain as as you know i've been very quiet about them in the european union has and because it's accusing ripple of for the 2nd time breaking international law over the island protocol and the border they think that some sort of getting back a brit over the vaccinations they're the ones who ought to brake is an absolute lie counted in tandem. massey's maybe i slice it brussels commercial or the place like the british government all is or is the essential power is there anything like the mass media oh. and they can be

a long serving actually horrid cold is it not drug your he commission. president i'm disappointed that it has a british sas because if we can i think we could or chaps more countries to invest in britain we could can see for your well our corporations have either worries us 25 percent below or the troops and considering. that there's ross's 30. 2 yeah the only front may you go and you know i may. a drunk just says he likes a drink and obviously the european commission deny completely any any kind of signs of being like the mafia back to so neck i suppose you see in the magazine private eye talking about his personal links to non domiciles do you think there are personal signs that we should watch for is regarding actual corruption in

a former goldman sachs executive i mean were all of these free zones that he's announcing which around the world are known for are known for corruption arguably i know you probably back these free zones but britain's ports going to be like those of. nations that are accused of smuggling larry idea and let's. see. your source of corruption. just because he was a very successful bank that he's married. to he's also very success you know right . just. last week we saw. all the success very very one can see exactly. what they say but it's.

easy to. liken it to share charts actually. we'll have to get back to what private eye said about you at another time actually more than the budget of the people of britain and many people around the world will be looking to this feud in the royal family you've been very mean to markell talking about the wearing diamonds of saudi crown prince a moment when someone why you attacking meghan markle and their oprah winfrey interview when when prince andrew i think is wanted by the f.b.i. for questioning. that means and you resorts to a lot of him and i think he should talk to the f.b.i. he tells me. he wants to talk to us a suspect there's a hell of a screw. he's insaf. messy anywhere he's disappeared from. the revelation that. she really meant starr

who left the policy to say the same thing. no he's denying this email he says these people lest the sheep are just an amazing artist jesus asked our warrior one who are else here she takes a barrier it's worth millions in the crowd this area missy who has asked us when it shall we allow this angry christian who did what he did now sit in the same restaurant as us to any use she will as earrings we do then 3 nice article. harsh and slightly crown trees with salt to all did that murder was murder in the forms and shots up nights in a saudi embassy and she started her start knowing the presses it gosh they are expensive wonder agent rock she didn't say oh yes and to the enormous interest that

is it so are known. for her crown prince she got questions to answer as usual questions to ask about how she. does it she has it makes you look rather hypocritical and paris evil to campaign against if you take on the police taking over. ok well are you sure you know where the crown jewels actually come from that the queen where has the film where where there were so atrocities apparently as well and their peers thank you or that they're for the show we're back on monday but until then go underground with or others will maybe. and videos on you to. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to us from the world of politics. i'm sure i'll see you then.

this hour's headlines stories this slovak prime minister rejects the call to use russia. as the country's vaccination campaign gets balls. also. u.k. medical workers are all great stuff when the government offers them a pay rise of just one percent. they leave holiday turned into a nightmare we hear from a passenger who was trapped on an italian cruise ship during a cope with break which resulted in the dead some 3 people. refused to inform us the couple cases. that they had tested positive and there was no suspicion that what. they refused to give.