protest they continue to engage in their civil disobedience movement it is absolutely. our aspiring to this to to watch and to see. what's happening in the and more right now you see. the very best and the very worst of our humanity unfolding as we speak now you know the generals will be quick to say here that suit she was arrested popped off means protest. she was guilty of already 70 accused of violating the boarders directions on walkie talkies and that also of course the charge against our president when meant you don't believe these charges are true as for operator of the united nations they're completely absurd and i think it is the evidence that the generals are completely out of touch is the fact that they would actually think then we would believe that there's any

credibility to these charges or to that or to the justice system it is an injustice system there's no question at all in my mind about what's going on in myanmar and the protests were not sparked in my view by the arrest alongside suchi in the president or start by the fact that this democracy has been overturned that a country on its way making its way to respect for democracy respect for human rights. on the road was completely overturned how is it possibly on the road when the un is saying in testimony of these 2 men in december the worst paul graham's of the century. i mean i mean the i.c.j. said it wasn't genocide against the rohingya but and the i think given for months but how was it on the road before these present protests to some kind of democratic

nation. where it was a developing democracy and by that i mean if you look at what me and more looked like before we began to see elections we saw thousands and thousands of political prisoners. in prison under horrific conditions you had a total military authoritarian state in which people had absolutely no rights whatsoever then you have an agreement then an agreement to begin to make our way into democracy now the generals call it discipline democracy they had control of key ministries which of course we understand there they controlled. i want to poison a quick history you mean it was like that when hundreds of thousands and tens of thousands maybe were being killed when the united states government was backing the gent i have had throughout my career concerns questions and i've been very clear

about my criticisms of any inconsistency is with the united states government or any government when it comes to this but my point is this things are bad in the end more but sanctions that were established. before the elections that happened in 2015. had the effect of forcing there to be at least some semblance of a democracy so that you had some civilian leadership controlling some ministries the military controlling key ministries and 25 percent of the parliament so it wasn't what i say on the road to democracy i meant it is incremental progress it was steps ahead of when there was a total military authoritarian regime but by no means was it a regime that fully participate in democracy nor fully respected human rights the atrocities that occurred in 2017 and the discrimination that has continued with

the previous government in a kind state i have been very clear and we all should be very critical of the way the regime to have been and we're continuing and continue to be treated but my point is this is that what we're seeing right now aren't. hundreds of thousands if not millions of people coming out in the streets from every corner of me and more cities large and small all ages all social and economic backgrounds to protest this coup and to protest this violation of of their of their country of their government that my answer your question was that is what is clearing this that is what is generating this not the arrest or any particular. the arrest of well over a 1000 people. including uncertainty and including the president of me and one but

it's an assault on the relationship that is what it is that is my point this is a lot less than the numbers arrested in paris during the john but as you say it has been deadly and the pictures are awful coming from me and ma why are you not in beijing the united states flights apparently have been occurring between china and myanmar in ma a really important component of china's built the road initiative the bangladesh china india economic corridor or. is it is china not the. china is very very important very important and it's why when china issued statements criticizing the coup when china has publicly called for the release of political prisoners. china has expressed its deep concern about developments in iraq that is very helpful of course china will be very very critical when it comes to trying to address and resolve this this crisis because

a china is very important is it difficult as a special rapporteur given your defense of an thank sujit in the past knowing that before latest arrest she seemed to be excusing human rights crimes she had said in testimony to the u.n. cycles of into calming all violence. not the worst program of this century yes we've been very critical of the government of me at this crisis it's not about her or any individual leader or political party or entity this is about the people with me and they're under a shot and they're sliced into focus it has to be now you know the and some might say you know exam rooms against me and now are just the poorest people there war would you would you say to companies like gates you know. who still in me and my understand there have been some companies that have been were drawing from the

country kiran beer razor gaming the company from singapore. well i think what's important is that we have a sanctions regime that has garden recipient we want to make sure that the sanctions have the maximum impact on the generals and their interests the revenue flowing into their pockets and the minimal minimal impact on the people of me and more so that is why we're calling for targeted focused sanctions and we also want them to be coordinated between countries will have to step up and engage in them in a sanctions regime so for example people ask well what about 8 there is going into mean more development aid communitarian yes it's important that that flow in the degree that it's possible if donors can provide those funds to i n g o's to the c.s.o. those on the ground the humanitarian development organizations were providing vital services to the people of being one that's very very important every can. in energy

use every added possible to avoid funneling that money through the the government of the and all that all that to the good while u.n. security council members like russia china the united states. written they're all condemning this is this violence much less about where the crowd control weapons to fire these peaceful apparently protesters. where that's coming from using u.s. special reports or may investigate where these weapons are coming from or is it the case the weapons are coming from. members of the u.n. security council well it's a good question it's a very very good question but what we're calling for is a is a global arms embargo the security council of the united nations certainly has it within its power to establish a global arms embargo but short of that if it's not possible to get there through the security checks there what we're asking for is for countries to coordinate

their their their arms embargo regimes so that again we can have a maximum impact right now there are 41 countries in the world that have some form of arms embargo in place we want to increase that number and we want to make sure that all of these indoor goes are coordinated so that we can make sure we keep track on not just us but also dual use technology so that we can we can control what is going into that country and to the extent possible started from getting into the hands of the whole or may have called me a joyous sanctions in the past have caused untold misery to go balls out of countries i just want to ask you. i'm not saying your job is easy but. the other special report says the u.n. that we have on the program have terrible times convincing people about the freedom of julian a son giora poverty say here in britain is there

a geopolitical context that makes it easier for you to convince governments about the myanmar issue and human rights throughout the cia on your side in the and the communist party of china. well you know what what we're trying to focus on and i think what is. extremely important and i think we see evidence that is it is getting emerged is that this is a crackdown this is horrific what we're seeing on the streets. of me and more and it requires a a unified response that is outside of the context of geo political backgrounds even though they exist and obviously that dynamic is there. but it seems to me that we should be able to say. as a people no matter where you're from and a matter what their ideology is is that what we are seeing in me and more is borne out and it has to stop and that we need to do everything possible to make sure that

it's does so which china comes forward and says we we find this this coup unacceptable that political prisoners need to be released those are encouraging signs and encouraging steps forward and we're going to be able to build on those encouraging steps of the we can have to the greatest extent possible a unified stance against the horror that's going on in me and right now so as robert thank you my pleasure after the break we'll be speaking with david bowie photographer and lead singer morg why about challenging politics through art. this is. the key to actually physically pump it out of the ground you have

well well well well well well well well well well well well well. a lot of money for your oil. and with that comes. a lot of a lot of people from all over the country. you don't make a $100000.00 a year. there's an issue. they were told to ignore that a hard work well work is not easy. and so they want to relieve their stress of how do they relieve their stress. these name means that outlay these men that comfort these many. people have been murdered up here people been raped they are massive drug issues up here you have a boom you have everything else that comes along with money.

welcome back and among the claims of the liberal corrective action and promises a future cuts universal credit you catch on to the regime so that's a recent budget also include an extra $400000000.00 pounds for the 0 ups but with the musicians union raising the alarm that many are still falling through the cracks what hope is there for a cultural revival here post coronavirus while one photographer reminds us what greatness in all it looks like is make rock who captured the defining images of legend reality it's like david bowie bryan ferry and debbie harry as well as taking iconic photos for all booms like the reeds transform and he pope's rule rock joins me now from new york is new collaborative work title my daughter is on show in sale only west contemporary editions make welcome to going underground tell us about this new interpretation of this new i'm going to go

a little. i love to. tell me about this new interpretation of your work made with finn. dak some of the proceeds are going to the cash down argument cash of n.h.s. hearing of it later why esther's records are both mary and famed bachche i think that was the 1st singer lois about to. about 3 it was the name. but what really struck me. as the ileum know it was maybe a year or so kind of people. so one of my agents about. her america. the graphic novel we were looking for a summary. only. the words were all right but you see the pictures it's a graphic novel anyway yes i saw something that trimmed back

a train it was just a rough sketch or something but i assumed that would be poetical army stuff because i wanted it i assume since bush it was liam's idea the thing is utterly finch and that we were all here with. my foot a bit wrong the 1st 2 sets of the beach apartment which is m.r. a. g. a a r a so i was there to prove that. maybe you know where the word say pictures and what strains of barry coke are a lot of these were printed early certainly was admirers. of the literary. lot of pictures. then and send the significance of this date to have the release of an r. o. the 2nd of march why hasn't someone willing to openly say they have an infinity of

ethics if. it's the. loo is a significant artist's early for british rockers as a spin around the block over the last 40 years still nobody sounds like bubbly. but it was my mate for many years. and so it's a made isn't significance in a modern culture sure. unfortunately. a lot of their friends including. and david instead freddie and. rory gallagher make runs i mean there's loads of. nola story in the course really so years ago but it was you know the all mine it says whatever quiet were in my ear he was. challenged how. because if you are saying this

law if you're coming up here so far that's a very grim isn't it terry o'neill gave his last long form interview for going underground and he said that it was about is it a lot of things you know was going on in the ground because he actually answered i think he had it when he when i interviewed him and he was he was talking about how he looked from the outside in and he was also saying photography was pointless now bands because they're being run by managers and p.r. to an extent that you can actually get a photograph done everyone's of that sort of where are we showing every moment of the rickets or the figure that sort of phrases so excessive my own i don't you get to start my wife's sex good pictures of her firm but. they could sew a similar thing or they need to be under more and i will never know why is he said

hey you're from the inside out because you were inside the rock when i was a really sure 3 story i wasn't anybody i just got to know it. it was true that the early days of really doing yoga little earlier and still do it every day. probably saved my life for which actually i was staying in some dodgy behavior is. the violence as a as a commission maybe giving money to the national health service and and to repairing repairing hearts here i will what i also ask you because woody woodwinds the last surviving spider from oz came on the show and he said he said the amazing thing about david bowie who you of course photographed so memorably made videos for the amazing thing about david bowie was he involved different classes of people social

economic class some people might say yeah cambridge medieval. english railroad alt i mean this very. strong. how is it how how is it that you came to be working working with often working class artists often new middle class artists arguably is worth. of the blues a sense of middle class he was. well if you go solo sings it. and david david was very struck. and i love it's over story but willie was a be are all are are one of the war and they were called me or around or i just remember this well it's very should. do or think of shopping. because i've been rich very very so 'd i need a lot more. to explain. oh you're a lot better something's. sure. he knew something about it.

it was like mama it was for. core work but he was very still for it you we always you don't condone drug taking on this program we give in the span of your work. do you think it not only influence obviously the arts it influenced ideas about war i mean could you have been a war photographer i mean sometimes you make it sound like you were a little while no one. you know that so i have a great respect for those. who consider. true of our records and i wonder how they could hate the pictures they took worse the very famous imbecile i don't mcmullen exactly. 3 years is only certain pieces of man skirts i mean we've talked about roma camp or a lot or on the program i think and we've also talked about l.s.d.

and most recently most recently about m.k. ultra and the new revelations about the cia's use of it for the beat poets and all sorts of experiments with this with this hindsight what do you think the influence of l.s.d. has been on not only western culture but international culture. well i think it opened up western approach or so eastern. so the influence of the late sixty's where really you know it's a ship all these different discipline and they're very powerful so i can seriously which i do best write so serious that it was a summary of interviews musta been a success with. with the surgery were very risky i was obsessed with altered states as a get there was no use. tell me seattle again say we don't condone

taking any drugs although some drug influence people are still on the curriculum here the romantic poets who you have said you you got inspiration from how how did the romantic poet influence the photography i mean we know shelley particularly at the moment because of jeremy called men and the fact that shelley was a socialist. you isn't the environmental element in there and you know no one has all anything illicit other than 'd somebody who certainly have a very intense dislike but that monstrosity without trying and they are alleviated so that is the poetry work in the photography writing this just the way our problems sit over so experiments or sit through david a fairy i saw them through the prism. oh mon of

the saddest things you may have said you say in the amazing documentary actually about he was like a spiritual mentor of rock his how rebels get absorbed by establishment culture i mean it's been said said before but given the you've worked with the world with the sex pistols and work with some of the most and important valuable rebels of ever continuing in fraud only you were with lou reed a very popular summer of no into no one sits sort of. if i sort of. stiller this far because there. is so heavy i really was of crystals but that starts. it was icky restart in 67. so. who says sarah so it's so so and there are and. it was also you know what the who the lindsay chair of the. great choreographer

a bit of states from the make up you know mess where i snatch it i mean this is a political program i would ask you given that jagger obviously is without a vietnam protests debbie has there and he war protests any nuclear protest bowie the celebrated line about nixon on young americans. we are conscious of the politics and the antiwar messages of all the artists who are most famous for photographing. logic fairly was that just as. he played so he lived anywhere one time with him is a lesson i don't recall having you know when sexuality you know is phobic i do it. so you know it's the. no you think they were. you know they're into the our they didn't really go into

politics and ruin our lives. yes i have the issue ations and sentences but i'm not going to go or oh go a whole change for. us but clearly your pictures are so redolent all these stars the importance of these stars i know. you. spoke to david bowie about it when bowie told you we don't exist these stars so is it really only your photographs clear for y'all if you say we were you. know actually. it's this he does this that they did was good philosophic if you're sure. but charlie resurrected sure it was better look at them all silent so i just want it when there is your photographs that are the way the way they these stars appear in our minds i'm going to also ask you how safe your archive is because in the

documentary i saw you've got them all in cardboard boxes i hope there is no metal pins and thing on this earth that where there's a lot of stuff goes oh still life you don't know the right somebody to as. the stakes are much much chair in the box is a good enough shoe for. climate change and the effect on the boxes. so i'm scared there's a matzoh yuko you that. that's not true you. should if you are interested in the pictures there were no more lots that's for sure thank you in the middle our images are on show and sale on the west contemporary editions platform well going underground evenhandedly charlie cook has also been looking into the future of working class art and recently caught up with stuart braithwaite lead singer of the scottish post rock group more why we're just

come from scoring hit italian crime drama 000 to secure their 1st number one in 25 years with a new album as the love continues here is talking about the future for working both musicians post look at your actually see you know already if you look at the kind of artists the major labels are sane and most of them are from pray wealthy by kone's because they can afford to teach him how to work and the music you can afford to go until there was a need and help from their labels because labels have less money and yet i think we're going to see less less people from kind of normal to be honest i mean. it's almost glad of a support i mean we're talking about normal people because most people are working class most people haven't got rush parents or loads of money in the bank so my guess is still to be a struggle for for music to come from who is going to people which is a shame because you look at the has city of new music. just thinking off the

top man has bands like. happy mondays times like deals like the store nosies you know late there are no it's over status that i think is a danger to sure this year there were no and that full interview where they discuss everything from political music to nuclear weapons can be found on going underground you tube channel make sure you subscribe and hit the bell like want to tell those occasions of the never listen interview that's of the show will be back on wednesday see if. there are tactics that can be used to get innocent people to confess to crimes they didn't commit i don't even think people in the us really get that the police are allowed to lie to the person who falsely fast actually came to believe the lie that they were told about their own behavior once a false confession is taken the case is closed and nobody really can tell the

difference between a good confession and one that isn't. one else seemed wrong. just don't call. me. yet to shape out just to become educated and engaged equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. the binding ministration. policy particularly in the middle east. ministration simply just not a learning curve also does washington really support democracy in the world ukraine's crackdown on independent media should you be.

profiting from a senior german quit in a major scandal for allegedly earning hundreds or thousands of. claims of financial mismanagement during a pandemic to buy the u.k. government spending millions of pounds on the media briefing room. just to. class president biden's long awaited relief bill passes the senate people may end up getting even less than.