i think then we will believe that there is any credibility to these charges or to that or to the justice system it is an injustice system there's no question at all in my mind about what's going on in india and more and the protests were not sparked in my view by the arrest alongside suchi in the present or start by the fact that this democracy has been overturned that a country on its way making its way to respect for democracy respect for human rights on the road was completely overturned how is it possibly on the road to end the u.n. is saying in testimony at these doing in december the worst paul graham's of the century. i mean i mean the i.c.j. said it wasn't genocide against the ring yeah but and the i think given for months but how was it on the road before these present protests to some kind of democratic

nation. right it was a developing democracy and by that i mean if you look at what me and more looked like before we began to see elections we saw thousands and thousands of political prisoners. in prison under horrific conditions you had a total military authoritarian state in which people had absolutely no rights whatsoever then you have an agreement then an agreement to begin to make our way into democracy now the generals call it discipline democracy they had control of key ministries which of course we understand that they controlled for. over i want to pose a quick history you mean it was like that when hundreds of thousands and tens of thousands maybe were being killed when the united states government was backing the gent i have had throughout my career concerns questions and i've been very clear

about my criticisms of any inconsistency is with the united states government or any government when it comes to this but my point is this things are bad in the end more but sanctions that were established. before the elections that happened in 2015. had the effect of forcing there to be at least some semblance of a democracy so that you had some civilian leadership controlling some ministries the military controlling key ministries and 25 percent of the parliament so it wasn't what i say on the road to democracy i meant it is incremental progress it was steps ahead of when it was a total military authoritarian regime but by no means was it a regime that fully participate in democracy nor fully respected human rights the

atrocities that occurred in 2017 and the discrimination that has continued with the previous government in a kind state i have been very clear and we all should be very critical of the way the regime to have been and were continuing and continue to be treated but my point is this is that what we're seeing right now are. hundreds of thousands if not millions of people coming out in the streets from every corner of me and more cities large and small all ages all social and economic backgrounds to protest this coup and to protest this violation of of their of their country of their government that my answer your question was that is what is clearing this that is what is generating this not the arrest or any particularly. the arrest of well over a 1000 people. including uncensored sheehan including the president of me at one

but it's an assault on the relationship that is what it is that is my point this is a lot less than the numbers arrested in paris during the john but as you say it has been deadly and the pictures are awful coming from me and ma why are you not in beijing the united states flights apparently have been occurring between china and myanmar in ma a really important component of china's bell road initiative the bangladesh china india economic corridor or. is it is china not the. china is very very important very important and it's why when china issued statements criticizing the coup when china has publicly called for the release of political prisoners. china has expressed its deep concern about developments in iraq that is very hopeful of course china will be very very critical when it comes to trying to address and

resolve this this crisis because in china is very important is it difficult as a special rapporteur given your defense a man thank sujit in the past knowing that before latest arrest she seemed to be excusing human rights crimes she had said in testimony to the u.n. cycles of into communal violence. not the worst paul graham of this century yes we've been very critical of the government this crisis is not about her or any individual leader or political party or entity this is about the people with me and they're under a shot and they're sliced into focus it has to be now you know the and some might say you know exam rooms against me and now are just the poorest people there war would you would you say to companies like gates you know. who still live in me and

my i understand there have been some companies that have been were drawing from the country kiran beer razor gaming the company from singapore. well i think what's important is that we have a sanctions regime that has garden recipient we want to make sure that the sanctions have the maximum impact on the generals and their interests the revenue flowing into their pockets and the minimal minimal impact on the people of me and more so that is why we're calling for targeted focused sanctions and we also want them to be coordinated between countries will have to step up and engage in them in a sanctions regime so for example people ask well what about 8 that going into mean more development aid communitarian yes it's important that that flow in the degree that it's possible it donors can provide those funds to i n g o's to the c.s.o. those on the ground the humanitarian development organizations who are providing

vital services to the people of being one that's very very important and everything in it in energy is every added possible to avoid funneling that money through the the government of the it all that all that to the 'd good while u.n. security council members like russia china the united states. britton there they're all condemning this is this violence much less about where the crowd control weapons to fire these peaceful apparently protesters. where that's coming from you think u.s. special rapporteur may investigate where these weapons are coming from or is it the case the weapons are coming from. members of the u.n. security council well it's a good question it's a very very good question but what we're calling for is a is a global arms embargo the security council of the united nations certainly has it within its power to establish a global arms embargo but short of that it's not possible to get there through the

security checks there what we're asking for is for countries to accordingly their their their arms embargo regimes so that again we can have a maximum impact right now there are 41 countries in the world that have some form of arms embargo in place we want to increase that number and we want to make sure that all of these indoor goes are coordinated so that we can make sure we keep track on not just us but also dual use technology so that we can we can control what is going into that country and to the extent possible started from getting into the hands of the all me have told me a joy you sanctions in the past have caused untold misery to go balls out of countries i just want to ask you. i'm not saying your job is easy but. the other special report says in the u.n. that we have on the program have terrible times convincing people about a freedom of julian a thunder or a poverty say here in britain is there

a geopolitical context that makes it easier for you to convince governments about the myanmar issue and human rights who were the cia on your side in the and the communist party of china. well you know what what we're trying to focus on and i think what is. extremely important and i think we see evidence that is it is getting emerged is that this is a rule crackdown this is horrific what we're seeing on the streets. of me and more and it requires a a unified response that is outside of the context of geo political backgrounds even though they exist and obviously that dynamic is there. but it seems to me that we should be able to say. as a people no matter where you're from and a matter what your ideology is is that what we are seeing in me and more is borne

out and it has to stop and that we need to do everything possible to make sure that it's does so which china comes forward and says we we find this this crew unacceptable there that political prisoners need to be released those are encouraging signs and encouraging steps forward and we're going to be able to build on those encouraging steps of the we can have to the greatest extent possible a unified stance against the horror that's going on in me and right now so as robert thank you right pleasure after the break we'll be speaking to david bowie's photographer and lead singer morg why about challenging politics through art. indeed it is.

this is. the heat actually physically. he would have well well. there's a lot of money with the oil and with that comes. a lot of a lot of people from all over the country. you don't make a $100000.00 a year. they were. a hard worker well workers not easy and so they want to relieve their stress and how do they relieve their stress. these men from the outlay that comfort these many. people have been murdered up here people can raise their massive drug issues up here give

a boom you have everything else that comes along with money. welcome back and among the claims of neoliberal corrective action and promises a future cuts universal credit you catch on to the reason that's a reason budget also included an extra $400000000.00 pounds for the 0 ups but with the musicians union raising the alarm that many are still flowing through the cracks what hope is that for a cultural revival here who's coronavirus well one photographer who reminds us what greatness in all it looks like is make rock who captured the defining images of that in reality it's like david bowie bryan ferry and debbie harry as well as taking iconic photos for all booms like the reeds transform and he pope's rule. rock joins me now from new york is new collaborative work that only daryn is on

show in sale only west contemporary editions make welcome to going underground tell us about this new interpretational than if you are i'm going underground there is a because we're certainly i love to jam but further underground mystical tell me about this new interpretation of your work may daro with thin dak some of the proceeds are going to the cash down argument cash of n.h.s. touring covered later why esther's records are both merry and streamed bachche i think that was the 1st thing a los about. about truth was the name. but what really struck me. as the ileum know it was very well you're all so kind of people. so one of my agents about. here in america. the graphic novel we were looking for somebody to own is the words they're all

right but you see the pictures it's a graphic novel anyway it's i stole something that trimmed back to pay tribute was just a rough sketch or something but i said that would be. regular army stuff because i wanted to do a census but us it was leader was our idea this thing is utterly finch and that we were all in. my suit a bit raw the 1st 2 that says a very chipper which is m.r. a. g. a a r a so as to. maybe you know where the word. pictures strains of barry koch are a lot of these were pretty severely ill she certainly was admirers. of the literary . love of pictures. then and send the significance of this date to

have the release them in r o the 2nd of march why hasn't someone really terminated inferior methods if. it's the. loo is a significant artist's early for british rockers as a spinner of the last of the last 40 years still nobody sounds like bubbly. based on a mate for many years. and certainly to me isn't significance in a modern culture sure. unfortunately. a lot of their friends including. and david instead freddie and. rory gallagher make runs i mean there's loads of. nola story in the course really so years ago but it was you know the almighty says whatever quiet one of them are here

he was. challenged how. because if you are saying this law if you're coming up here so it's a grim isn't it terry o'neill gave his last long form interview for going underground and he said that it was about is it a lot of things you know was going on in the ground because you know your answer. but i think he had it when he when i interviewed him when he was he was talking about how he looked from the outside in and he was also saying for photography was pointless now bands because they're being run by managers and p.r. to an extent that you can actually get a photograph done everyone's that's. where are we showing every moment of the rickets or the figure that sort of trees it's so excessive my own you get to start my wife's sex good pictures of her firm on. they're good so as

civil as they are they need to be under more and i will never know why is he said they you are from the inside out because you are inside the rock well i was a really sure 3 story i was an anybody i just know it. is. it was true that the early days of re doing yoga little yoga and still the reader. probably saved my life for which i was staying in some dodgy behavior is very. famous as a as a commission maybe giving money to the national health service and and to repairing repairing hearts here i was one also asking because woody woodman's in the last surviving spider from oz came on the show and he said he said the amazing thing

about david bowie who you of course photographed so memorably made videos for the amazing thing about david bowie was he involved different classes of people social economic class some people might say yeah cambridge medieval. english rather old alt i mean this very evil is that true for all. how is it how how is it that you came to be working working with often working class artists often needle class artists arguably is worth. of the blues a sense of middle. he was. well if you go solo things are. and david david was very structured. and i love that serve the story well when he was a be are all are aware of the war and he will call me a around or i just remember this poetry should. do or think of shock when he.

goes up in the story so ready on your. explains. oh you're a lot better some thirty's but st barua sure. you knew something about it. the result mama it was fur. corps work but he was very skillful. we obviously don't condone drug taking on this program or given the span of your work. do you think it not only influence obviously the art it influenced ideas about war i mean he could have been a war photographer i mean sometimes you make it sound like you were a little while you know why it should have been a war that sort of a great respect for those. who consider. our records and i wonder how they could state the pictures they took worse the very famous in the school don't mcmullen exactly. 3 years is only certain

pieces of man skirts i mean we've talked about robert kapper a lot on the program i think and we've also talked about l.s.d. and most recently most recently about m.k. ultra and the new revelations about the cia's use of it for the beat poets and all sorts of experiments with this with this hindsight what do you think the influence of l.s.d. has been on not only western culture but international culture. well i think it opened up west. to east and. so the influence of the late sixty's where really you know it's a ship all these different this is it and they're very powerful so i can seriously which i do that's right so serious that they produce a summary that interviews must a bit of sassed with. with the secretary were we were i was

obsessed with altered states as a get there was no use. tell me seattle again say we don't condone taking any drugs although some drug influence people are still on the curriculum here the romantic poets who you have said you you got inspiration from how how did the romantic poet influence the photography i mean we know shelley particularly at the moment because of jeremy corben and the fact that shelley was a socialist. you know he's in the environmental element in the raw you know your show scherzo anything illicit other than somebody who certainly have a very intense dislike but that monstrosity without saying they are alleviated so that is the poetry work in the photography writing this just the way our problems sit over so experiments or sit through david

a fairy i saw them through the prism. oh mon of the saddest things you may have said you say in the amazing documentary actually about you the psycho spiritual mentor of rock here's how rebels get absorbed by establishment's culture i mean it's been said said before but given the you've worked with the world with the sex pistols and work with some of the most and important valuable rebels who have a continuing in fraud only you were with lou reed a very popular summer of well into no one see it sort of. if i sort of. still have this far because there. is so heavy and we was of crystals but that starts. it was icky restart in 67. so. who said summer so it's so so and there are and. it was also you know

what the who the linseed chair of the. great choreographer a bit of. states from the make up you know mess where i snatch it i mean this is a political program i would ask you given that jagger obviously is without a vietnam protests demi has and he war protests and a nuclear protest bowie the celebrated line about nixon on young americans. we are conscious of the politics and the antiwar messages of all the artists who are most famous for photographing the logic fairy was there just as. he played so he lived anywhere where we can we can learn some lessons i don't recall having you know i mean sexuality that was from which i do it. so you know it's. surely. and.

they were you know they're into the our they didn't really go into politics and rule our but i've never voted. yes i have issue a shows and sentences but i'm not going to your room go a whole chain from. us but clearly your pictures are so redolent all these stars the importance of these stars i know. you. spoke to david bowie about it when bowie told you we don't exist these stars so is it really only your photographs clear for ya'll if you say we were you. know actually. it's serious that they was good for the subject if you're sure but charlie resurrected sure that he was special look at them all silent so i just want

it when there is no photographs that are the way the way they these stars appear in our minds i'm going to also ask you how safe your archive is because in the documentary i saw you got them all in cardboard boxes i hope there is no metal pins and think search there where there's a lot of stuff goes oh well it still but if you don't know the right somebody to. live in sochi russia must share in the votes is a good enough shoot for the moon climate change and the effect on the boxes. so i'm scared it doesn't matter if you call you that. that's not true either or. if you should if you are only interested in the pictures there were no more lots that's for sure thank you in the middle are images run through and sail on the west contemporary conditions planned for well going underground

evenhandedly charlie cook has also been looking into the future of working class art and recently caught up with stuart braithwaite lead singer of the scottish coast rock group more why we're just come from scoring hit italian crime drama 000 to secure their 1st number one in 25 years with a new album as the love continues here is talking about the future for working both musicians post look at your actually see you know already if you look at the kind of are as the major labels are sane and most of them are from pray wealthy by kone's because they can afford to teach him how to work and the music you can afford to go until there was a need and help from their labels because labels have less money and yet i think there were going to see less less people from going of normal to be honest i mean. it's almost glad of a support i mean we're talking about normal people because most people are working class most people haven't got rush parents or loads of money in the bank so my guess is that it be

a struggle for for music to come from who is going to people which is a shame because you look at the has city of new music. just thinking off the top my hands bands like the happy mondays bands like the deals and seeing the store newsies you know late. there are no. i think it's a danger to sure this year. and that full interview with these guys everything from political music nuclear weapons can be found on going underground you tube channel make sure you subscribe and hit the bell like once did to the never miss interview that's of the show will be back on wednesday see if. some control from middle. of the night most of them are very hardworking people who want to get ahead that have either have some some health issues or have some of it out of stricken bad luck a full time job he's paid for

a place to live and missing just a month's rent can get she was a victim to the point if anything bad happens to any thing that just throws your budget off slightly. you better catch up real quick or you're going to have a judgment of possession against you and get addicted anyone that's homeless is history like garbage people look at you like a monster or someone bad or you chose to be there most of the time it's not the case see how it used to be in the world's richest country.

the or tactics that can be used to get innocent people to confess to crimes they didn't commit i don't even think people in the us really get that the police are allowed to lie to you the person who falsely confessed actually came to believe the lie that they were told about their own behavior once a false confession is taken the case is closed and nobody really can tell the difference between a good confession then one that is. in. the binding ministry she is still young but its foreign policy particularly in the middle east is an echo of past failures just ministrations simply just not

a learning curve also does washington really support democracy in the world ukraine's crackdown on independent media. headlining this hour profiting from the pandemic to see a german politicians have quit saying that a major scandal for allegedly earning hundreds of thousands of euros after brokering deals for face masks. meanwhile the u.k. government faces claims of financial mismanagement during the pandemic frontline health workers a pay rise of just one percent but it spends millions on a new media briefing room we gauge reaction in london. interest stories the story here is about these i mean interest people save the lives of the public and when i'm going to hospital table i think the nurses are not safe for me then. president biden's long awaited relief bill finally passes through the u.s. says.