oh you mean there's a downside to artificially low mortgage rates don't get carried away that's cause report. this is crude oil. so they need to actually physically pump it out of the ground you would have well well well well well. there's a lot of money with your oil and with that comes. a lot of a lot of people from all over the country. if you don't make a $100000.00 a year. as a minimum there's an issue. here in the. they work well 16 hours a day hard work well work that's not easy work and so they want to relieve their stress of how do they relieve their stress these may move back out like. that

comfort these men that. people have been murdered up here people can raise their massive drug issues up here we have a boom you have everything else that comes along with money. flow in welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter look according to secretary of state linkage china is the only country with the economic military and technological power to seriously challenge the stable and open international system all of the rules values. relationships that make the world

work the way we want it to is china really a threat to washington's global system. discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guest says coarsely in washington he's a senior fellow and director at the center of american sea power at hudson institute also in washington we have sort of ghouta he is asia pacific international relations specialist at the institute for china american studies and in letting me cross too many case she is a policy analyst and senior lecturer in chinese international political economy heart across the bulls in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it when it's going to set in washington i found lincoln's statements about china quite remarkable because basically what he said is that he didn't say and complete words but basically the international system that the

united states has built since the 2nd world war designed by the united states directed by the united states everyone must conform to it and china must too and if it doesn't conform to it and that's how they define the threat is that a fair thing to say said no that's not our concert like what it ought to do them in the beginning my introduction we're blinken said was not international or exists right now. and which near as fate has been. a party to along with other democratic countries is under threat by china and we're trying to use call everything with chinese characteristics. that free trade freedom of navigation. certainly free enterprise nonworking to list system. one where there is. something right out of the cooperation. on trade and where there is not an acceptance of our intellectual

property theft whole scenario that that's the kind of world united states seeks to preserve an increase not to enforce wrong others were children girlie they're only getting it if they pay for your game but and lincoln is saying is that china is challenging it well i mean it is a multi-ethnic polar world right now one party doesn't make the rules or should make the rules because then it will cause conflict when he let me go to you me it seems to me number one the world that the us is the architecture that the us has been at being at the meeting since the 2nd world wars hugely benefited china china likes a lot of those rules ok so you know i i think also during that after the 2nd world war all the way up to now the united states has never really had a peer so it has to start thinking about how the internet with international order

is going to exist with the peer power go ahead wendy i'll only be with china has vanished from the currents of the river or they will 'd not be not was that faith it's not eternal issues to change it to challenge will think it's own statement in his speech because i have read the speech it's very interesting to see. flight is that he suggests that america is alone. saying that it's a powering nation basically trying to. fight against. that you know how could this obviously isn't true china is not able to challenge america we're here we know how to do we not only in this region not home we think that the fact that americans have a lot of allies that have nato from when it comes to economics china has roots cordoning to the rules of we gain that has been sent out here and it is still considered finally found and there were

a lot of demands in america putting on trainer at this time far demands that we were part of a developed upon the american really should be doing the assessing that step it's firm that's likely to be again i think it's also important really to highlight that . while the speech really really emphasizes the fact that the end society and prioritizing american values interests the american people is that you're not no longer who we think that this is an international system that's that film for movie after world war 2 this is no system that actually is very true at the phone company and so the game is very much team has you know blink and you know also you know he talked about when he brought it up because i stopped in my introduction how it benefited the american people absolutely right i was a continuation of it when said china also has its national interests and has to

look after its own people i mean why can't the chinese jhoom what went down in the washington must do tyrants on people china will do for example i mean it seems to me it's like our parting if you want to could if you want to participate you have to do exactly what we say but the united states doesn't own the international or it's a member of the international red sox you know there are no diagram often show if the united stance is that china is a moral. yes playing by the rules of the game that the united states laid down and china playing by those same rules is going to goal vasili ahead of the united states in terms of material capabilities particularly economics just think about it this is a. talking of decades hence if china gets to the level off productivity that south korea is the act to date china with china's economy will be 2 and a half times the size of the united states playing by the rules of the game that

the united states laid out china will be wait ahead off the united states and this creates a fundamental die lemma of how to manage china and the problem has been that china does not want to change the setup because it works more or less pretty well for china but for the united states something needs to change in strategy and that's not yet figured out how to change that in strategy and so instead we have this doubling down in rhetoric that china's cheating china's doing this love love love love 2 love trying to create a coalition against china but the fact of the matter is one needs to have a backup criteria one needs to have better accusations against china to be able to create that coalition against china and that's not looking at i think this is to some extent trust tradition and ceo at the u.s. and and that should not be the case because china as as we just said is just still end up won't include income economy and it is not

a given that the chinese communist party will be there for her that's not been the case in taiwan that we have hardware in systems have come down it could could have been in china and we could have a much looked nurul i set up at some point of time in the next couple of decades in a decade or 2 and that could completely change the conversation so the u.s. needs to stay true to its values and observe the rules of the system that it itself laid down and of course court others who. well the seat to the fire to sunday to do some of the same sets you want to reply to that go ahead well you are. wondering whether there are clashes on the border between china and india cost to rot here in studio international order but the other guests are saying the united states now. doesn't strike me as the. means to conquer border of that into the united states or any other democratic country or

non-democratic want it what should the united states do if there was a conflict between india and china what should the united states didn't i don't think. that statesmen have the luxury of making plans based on what could or what might happen i think one has to look at what is actually happening and judged by that. china represents a threat to national the international order liberal and national order and what did i deduce that what one should try to do i mean he would mr blinken what should china do if just. agree to any kind of demand from washington i don't think a degree into demands from washington is not anything to do with how the chinese treat the readers in their own country or threaten tyrone with force flashes with the with the indians on there are on their own a lesson from that if it's go to war with china no of course not ok

winnie go ahead jump in i see what it says what you're suggesting is number line that you that america wants trying to achieve just saying here what your rights for i i receive who are who are the injustices there are fans we will keep on board with this that he was out for i think that there's a little bit there. this is hard to see that we were talking about the fact that the line to the current situation in india the poor fashions the how they've been having territories she was rejected it's funny i had clashes on and off for decades and they have is oh it's so nice for now who are the people you know how they want to view the situation where his heart goes out. there in the passions out or potentially contradictory to him who would have been sure sure call those white americans doing you know the country for the release i am that i'm not saying i

want to take it there but if you are going to for china or for america wants to hold china to the rule of ensure it then it's necessary for america to fully itself should we who is of international think we're safe as you say america is not a leader america is not trying to control everything it is just part of a full justice now it's not a question of holding trying to the rules of the american order. it's a question of what sort of a warder exists in the world united states is not a this part shall now the fact that you are the threat to the international order is recognised not simply by the united states but by your well is demonstrated by the fact that the british are sending a carrier strike the south china sea the french are sending a submarine the german hearst the germans you sending a certain share and so there's a growing awareness of what china's aggressiveness and you envision well who

ambitions mean not just united states but for europe as well and i expect that will continue. sort of to in washington sort of that it is china a military threat we came in why are the british going all the way around the world to to the south china sea which is far as i know as the you know where china is the south china sea is called that for a reason here i mean it seems to me that we're seeing so much of a military response i mean is i would think that's a kind of the last thing you would want to be presenting what there are so many things you can diplomacy the can happen for that i mean you know when this is all that all that does is now in a react military let's go to our other guest in washington mr good to go. you know that this one of. the perfect find out if one talks globally expansionists in terms of china being doing this this globally and then all the issues that we talk about a frankly right act at stirfry in which something many of which are tests already

pretty legitimate claims i mean if i come to the south china sea you think about they can get china and get more disturbed actually china prior to what happened on the border at what sort of boundary resolution proposal with regard to a certain segment off the bottom 3 what do the indians do they ians instead went and declared that kashmir was a union territory not really the question and as a certain area which is also disputed by china because china does these things everybody jumps to the side even when when the other countries do it sorry if you have to jump in here we have to go to a hard break map about heartbreak were discussions around us china relations stay with our caps. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics score business i'm show business i'll see you then.

ironic that all the people that are in the big point bubble talk about the other bubbles that the fed is inflated without recognizing that they're in a bubble themselves and it's like a bubble is generally in the eye of the beholder nobody can tell their own bubble as though you've got all these people who are involved in the crypto bob all they can see it. being. welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered and peter is about to remind you we're talking about the us china relationship. oh yes go back to mr good in washington d.c. we're talking about perceptions of chinese aggression go right ahead yeah exactly perceptions of chinese aggression you know let's let's be clear about it you know

the chinese are plush it seared in terms of the way they handle many of these territorial aspects sources is an extension off diplomacy and politics but force within certain limits this is not force which is going to be used on the other side of the world and phobia says it cetera et cetera it's something very limited use of force and those that don't use of force has done more for political reasons think about it in time from 979 to 2021 china has had little bit of all that so should we see any movements on its territorial fronts it had less than 150 casualties those last 40 years it's not think about it with regard to the e.u. legal wars it go home any zeroes you have to add to that in terms of casualties but let me get to a larger point don't you let's regard to china again china is very territoriality oriented and therefore all china is not a military threat to the wooden floor seats but in terms within those sorts i. an

inch and a 2nd island chain in the western pacific china has very serious territorial claims and and strategic interests and it in regard to those interests include and show that there is an anti access anti denial's fact that she has to prosecuting a conflict of contingency which might arise within these waters but that also means that deep beyond these geographies there's actually no basis whatsoever for china to be involved in a hot conflict and that includes places like the south pacific all the string off forums in the e.u. notion there is no question of conflict military conflict happening out there but that is obviously with taiwan it is especially and you can see that that conflict is potentially possible there so again it's a it's a qualified out saying to himself military it's not in the streets fact of the

earth but it has military interests and there is a potential for a very serious sessions in zoos that you had the odd man out so i'd like you to reply to what we just heard go ahead well but. you know this is. there's a certain amount of speculation here which is understandable. but when the question is asked or when it's asserted that china is not a threat. that may or may not be true but i think that it's important to look at what kind of ships. chinese are building because ships are the way that the principle way for a country to project power china is working on is working on laying the keel for its 4th. aircraft carrier which will be a very large aircraft carrier and very modern one with electromagnetic catapults and all the tribute of a modern ship. you don't need 4 aircraft carriers for the south china sea.

you need aircraft carriers for one reason alone and that's to project how how you used. question chris speculation. that the pacific is a pretty big place. but to say that china is not a threat or who are merely concerned with regional issue is the ride by the fact of building amphibious ships which are meant to project power and building aircraft carriers new creasing numbers which are meant to be the same ok india sending 3 aircraft carriers already has and will have 3 aircraft carriers by 2030 i don't know anybody saying india is the expansionist i'm going to south america i'm going to get somebody so i mean we need to have a little bit of shared interests in this in the context of this debate from. me let me get any air limits but when and if you know we just have we have the quad you

know we have in the events being. it's being designed at least by some people in washington to be kind of in asia nato obviously to contain china and so i mean when you see this containment policy being encircled encouraging the quad to even to to militarily cooperate which i i find really problematic i i don't i just can't see how the australians are going to get involved with a guy just be to south koreans out with the we've with china and you think you know south korea is going to really come to the aid of japan and i doubt that too ok but i mean if. this containment is real ok we have ships you know going into the region here ok and obviously making it clear they see this is all a protecting power against china not for freedom of the seas but you know they're keeping their eye on one target and one target only go ahead when and so the idea of the chinese containment is the jennet in $89.00 bills after. we

still. has the major economies are within the world and the rise of the chinese economy naturally means it's more concerned with americans as to why it might mean for a region where you have japan which is a major ally poor americans foreign as well as now reality are concerned about whether my poor creative in consumer stevie need to think about where it comes to high the you know china has a military rank in the church there are 3 ask it's easier for them so our events are how are not idea china and the major military power in terms the onset for ups plane phone 4 we're talking about with south reserve the fact that china's trying to develop its for a fresh carrier america has to be 3 so sense that we yes china it's idea of china being a major military power and growing but it's in terms of challenging america is exactly the sense of power this is not exaggerated in terms that i think can see the says

how china is prioritizing its concerns and its its our presence in the region it is fundamentally focusing on defense of power trying to ensure that nothing happens of course the markets for one it's hearing within this issue because it's so and it's eternity because it is easy. that you have no trading routes in the malacca straits is one of the reasons why we have to go through initiative because china recognizes that night you chinese the team in is one team prioritize potential risk it with one of the treatments and therefore you leave the hospital and there's a growing discussion of health care when it's right for a constant arms exports america and nationally at least that is the world's leading events for acquirements 175000000000 for 20 for china exports 9000000000 per year over the last decade if not a challenge in that in that sense though in the big picture yes china i can see why

there are concerns but it's regional for the mentally regional in terms of where china is trying to protect its interests for whose didn't disappoint her territoriality absolutely china has never wavered from day one about what its own heart. mr go go go go go back to i mean it seems to me you know it'll be in the rise of china the international scene has been actually spain calculator if you look at the course of history i mean unbelievable and if i can just really give a really broad picture here i mean this is the 1st time in 500 years that a non european power is becoming a peer when the only single superpower in the world this is what blinken is talking about i find it really insulting it's all couched in values and democracy considering all of the illegal wars that the united states participated in in this century alone ok and it's just because china is becoming

a peer and nobody in washington understands how to deal with that because it's this whole exceptionalism nonsense starts short circuiting because there's someone else out there that is growing in power and there's really nothing they can do about it and that's why they don't fall back on these barrel things that i you know i think are hypocritical if you look at american foreign policy and nato also go ahead mr. perfectly correct on that on that trying to you know the fact that we are going to have a non west our which is going to be sitting atop the mountain all summer and there are about cities of sacked that is very hard to digest because the one that we live in is written has been written by the judeo christian west frankly and it's not it's absolutely not easy to accept the fact that chinese have been immense far in the process they're coming back to that's. to being that that sort of thought and

that clinging to at a time when the rest of the water died he says suddenly he shipped over there safe is rising and doing very well so this is a rice i'm like japan but it happened at the expense of asia it's happening with the asia and that that makes it that much more harder and that's why i mean even he knows try r.p.c. are pretty. questionable i do not take it for granted that he has just stuck in the quad let me expand in trenton 19 the. pacific forces come and never come on to say you know what you need to kind of quit on this floor business because it's not really going anywhere because that he need an ample head of the indian naval command cordon like you know what we're really not too much keen about this business because the intention we're doing having a good relationship at that point of time and of course relations have gone down and suddenly the quite has gone up and it might just go the other way around but coming back to china as i do the important takeaway from china is to do it in terms of its prices not so much to focus just on the military element you know that the

chinese run from 2000 years of conflict that for a free is at it is not what's trying to squash your enemy because you will not be able to do that better to play to that after a set and greed and trying to find divisions within them and that is what china is going to do as a 50 trillion 70 trillion dollar economy it is going to find differences but then branches off the west as it did with branches off the mongols and best practice of i think the west needs to be needs to get its game together and frankly as you're seeing out here the comprehensive agreement on investment if china's going to play by those rules advanced country rules and you know the subsidies they are betting to say hey let's give the energy to shake hands and to then also what happens that in that case where you go in with that well i think they think that's very interesting i'm going to seth for the last question here i mean is it a neo liberalism what the u.s.

did was financial eyes its economy you know just got the industrialization part of it and the chinese embrace a very different meal liberalism there that the factory of the world and they make all kinds of things we saw this you know these production change during the that and the ongoing crisis here i mean the ad they've been braced neoliberalism in come out on the winning site when the middle class in america came out on the losing side in the same ideology go ahead sir. now. of course the. contest between nations. is not it certainly should not be considered in terms of military balance or economics but rather the combination of. a claim. made a moment ago by. winnie about the defense of character. china's regional see. by their treatment of the show

genomes to be and can easily be the japanese but their threat to use force to take taiwan most are not the 1st i have to jump in here but that of times i don't sincerely apologize for interrupting that's all the time we have one of them i guess in washington washington and in london i want to thank our viewers for watching as the iraqis see you next time remember. the 2021 variant of a housing crisis is to pump money into the economy so that all the assets held on the balance sheet of warren buffett and other banks go up in value and that the people that lost a lot of wealth in 2008 the rally people of color are now getting raked over the coals again through this inflationary pass at their assets.

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