cowering is the new name of the game. leverage out for this weekend that's more of a news review of the we can just about half an hour from now though for me kevin 0 in on the rest of the team here as well in moscow in our world do you say thanks for watching have a great rest of this week. the

trouble with donald trump is that he exploited entirely the counter unlike my legacy he was much more successful than hillary clinton it appealing to people on the level of culture and heart and national identity and all that sort of thing but as demagogues through human history here exploited emotion especially dark emotions like fear and hatred and resentment to serve only his own interests not the interests of the nation at large. god. you were a police world with 2 homes i think you're talking about a murder case you're going to ensure. you leave that up. i just stand there watching i mean. you're not going home tonight i can guarantee they.

won't come back to wrongful conviction which you something today we're going to be doing a deep dive into an issue that is fascinating incidents. which is the phenomenon of false confessions and my guest today is going to be jane fisher already also was currently working on more cases involving false confessions and each is fascinating its own way so jane while some confession and jane is an attorney who is an expert on false confessions jane how did you get into this work i was a public defender in manhattan here in new york city for about 3 years and we saw a lot of police misconduct you know we were doing arraignments up until 1 am in the morning and you see people beat up or you know people whose cases get dismissed who

get no compensation so my husband and i left the legal aid society with the hopes of doing civil rights work. my name is old castle i'm a distinguished professor of psychology at john jay college of criminal justice once a false confession is taken the case is closed and nobody really can tell the difference between a good confession and one that is a problem with all of this is that you know or tactics that can be used to get innocent people and i don't just mean vulnerable innocent people i mean people who are sitting around in this room to confess to crimes they didn't commit.

anytime you do an exoneration case where there's been a false confession it's like trying to write a trice. everybody's already against you the person's been convicted by a jury the judge thinks he's guilty the jury thinks he's guilty now you have to convince everybody that they're wrong. so a case that you're deeply invested in is a case over in a village who has been in prison for 20 years renee lynch. was a case we took about 2 and a half now maybe 3 years ago now and she was accused and convicted of killing her landlord in buffalo new york in 1905. and it's also obviously a false confession cases the police are going crazy and if they can't solve it 18

months go by and renee's connection to the victim was that it was her landlord and so they are start looking into renee who at the time was heavily addicted to drugs crack cocaine and because she gets arrested for something else and they start interrogating her and she confesses to killing her landlord with this guy karim so she says kareem and i went to my landlord's house we were going to rob her the robbery goes bad and karim stabs her so if she's a good century it can make it a felony murder being present during the commission. a crime and somebody gets killed we started sort of doing you know just regular google searches on the players' names and detectives and everything in this t.v. show women behind bars comes up and they've done an episode case where they got in the in the prison and interviewed her and then interviewed this joseph court was the cop on the case the way her body. when she decided to go you just saw it was

time to go in truth. i believe her confession is kind of nonsense there's inconsistency between the physical evidence and what she says and during the show he says well i mean we knew that corinne walker was in florida at the time of our crime. kareen was afforded the time of our. i guess they knew kareem walker was in florida at the time the crime then rene's confession can't possibly be true because she's confessing to going to rob the landlord with karim and the defense been able to put that on her confession would have made no sense but the defense was never told. the whole thing is so full of holes and so bogus i can't put my finger on and say like you know this is the thing but i think if we dug in it we could find that thing that could get her out because it's all. it's just all of it so it's messed up how

do they record this confession and didn't know i mean they make you know they typed it up and then read it to her and made her sign it so there is a type of confession is the only version of the confession there's no like original notes they have or something that we have. to wonder about. she says details about the crime scene because they showed her photos of it. that she you know how the body was lying be shown her those photos. of some kind of new evidence. didn't exist at the time of the trial. or didn't know didn't exist at the time of the trouble it wasn't known right and it wasn't presented during the trial and then we have to show that it. could have been a different outcome and. i think we can but it's going to be hard.

our goal is of course to get renee out of prison but it can take a really long time sometimes many years and one of the 1st things we do in cases like this is to comb through the confession and find all the consistencies to clearly show that the confession. there's a cream walker drove me to 90 longmeadow and the plan was i was going to go into the front door and karim was going to come up the back door. he was going to tie her up with a piece of white extension cord that he brought with him at babson time kareem hit louise in the side of the face and louise fell to the floor and kind of went out if that happened he would be standing punching her here right. on cream head here in the face he knocked the wig off the wig landed on the floor in the kitchen.

kitchen. he tried to tie louise up with the plastic or he had then carry comes from behind louise he stabbed her at least twice however we know it's 8 times. louise fell to the floor again it was a large amount of blood on the floor next to her body so the only thing she gets right is that the way it was knocked off that there's a plastic cord involved in this case that's correct and the phone cord is where the extra d.n.a. is. ringback. hi ms finley it's gene fisher by rios and renee lynch's attorney i have a call with her this morning. oh good things. hi. hi.

why are quite right. i. well i know it's hard. i. went to trial she testified. very incoherent way she was high during the trial. was she was not a good witness for her so she recanted right away afterwards and her confession is that is it was a coerced when i talked about this this i would never say contests when people say i've been talking about this for 30 years and that's the 1st thing everybody says

but it wouldn't happen today it's not one kind of person that gives a false confession we are all into the circumstance of interrogation we all know there have been some train detectives i've spoken to who say i can get anybody to press to them from any of the little boats that they have a 95 percent confession rate. and see a lesser of a lesser near perfect and identifying the perpetrator that is every suspect you identify is the perpetrator right if you've got a confession rate at that level you produce you know for false confessions when i talk to her about it she explains to me. i was so shocked that they convicted me she said because there was no evidence of a confession so powerful it can stand alone so here's the jury on the one hand they've got the confessions on the one and they've got. the confessions trump the d.n.a. changes everything is sometimes not like in the final product of

a confession hollywood production is scripted by the police theory of the case it is rehearsed and. action camera ready to go. and that's what the jury sees they don't see the whole production they just see the final i don't see how a judge or a jury can look past a false confession if they don't see the presence and. we have a number of documented cases in which the person who falsely confessed actually came to believe the lie that they were told about their own behavior. which is. a whole nother level of insanity and some of them believe it for a long time afterwards.

and you can see there you. see here. in the melted thompson case we had he was a danish inturn who came. he was a danish he was a college student studying to become a teacher and he came and interned at i.p.s. which is really you know like a $20000.00 a year preschool up to the u.n. and it was a code teacher who accuses him of molesting all the kids in the class. and he's on the cover of the daily news they take his focus his facebook profile pictures him with his niece on his shoulders so they put that on the cover of the daily news and write sex monster and they go arrest him in the morning and bring him into the station and they have a female cop interrogate him she tells him well you know we have video of you

molesting these kids which they had videos but he's not molesting anybody so they had this woman who accused him had taken videos of him in the classroom interacting normally with children and so either the cops hadn't watched it or they had watched it and were blatantly lying to him but there was no video of him molesting kids but he hears that right and he thinks holy well if i'm on video i must have done it right they let him continue to believe this lie that he's cut red handed on tape molesting these kids and i think that that you know he started you could tell through the hole when they finally are recording him he's doubting himself you know he's he's wondering did i do this. the world is driven by

a dream shaped by those. who dares thinks. we dare to ask. banks geysers financial survival to know they say money to develop. a look planted using this is the central plank support dying at the moment i don't call them i now say stop the. mr thompson. can you tell me why.

i'm here because for. my colleagues and. for inappropriate. behavior it was ok so why don't you tell me. privately and then how this started what happened you know what. you know well. and remember to send a few moments about. this as a. person and. i had taken. its. place and playing around. to insular in my shorts and.

you know short of going forward in that or question where we were going. and so what when you say gave him pleasure at one time that a central resident. of it would have to be. i don't know you know. never ever dislike does not do it if you read out and demand it that's your handwriting and if i am just waiting over briefly because it looks like it's been changed in any way. and that's your signature at the bottom of page you read those that are here today they're going to show you the camera. i don't even think people in the us really get that the police are allowed to lie

to you i think most people would think that if i am speaking to a police officer he's telling me the truth but now to times i mean in denmark it's illegal for the police to lie to you so he really i think was. really says extra susceptible to something like that it took us filing the civil rights suit to even get access to these tapes the district attorney wouldn't give it to us when the criminal case was pending we asked the court we moved for a court order to get at the judge just wouldn't give it to us but they sat on these tapes for 8 months he had this case hanging over his head and they knew that there was nothing in the tapes right. there was the only evidence there was yes luckily mel to never got convicted right we were able to stop it before that happened but it took i mean it almost killed him. sexual abuse involving very young children were brought to the attention.

district attorney's office. to thoroughly investigate and involved. in the children particularly in this instance. one. of them in just this case after carol and. gather in our investigation we have to have.

you know have you ever seen anybody use like a piece of a foam court to prop up the waves or put it. just all the way forward to i don't know if i have a case where there is a piece of foam cord found inside of why would you have a phone cord and. lay it on your head to give a little for a little while but it's. better if they're flat. because if there is some clue feed then the hair is not like it's. like just like a like 3 to 4 inches of phone cord. in

a space we're trying to get permission to test all the old evidence for d.n.a. but to do that we have to collect as much information about her innocence as we possibly can and. go back and interview all the witnesses. documents go back to the crime scene. i keep coming back to this thing that the cops knew he was in florida and kept going with the story that they did together like wife if they know he's in florida why don't they like. your lives. you're lying to us because he's in we know he's in florida why don't they are confronted by hearsay that how can they be permitted to

go forward with a serious of a case that they know is not true name a trial basically match or as you say oh that's why that's as trickery and the only way to convict somebody of this was to do it that way yes. it just makes me so jaded and really disgusted with the district attorney's offices and i feel like you know the you know they're supposed to be at the top of the chain right there it's supposed to be the ones making sure the cops made mistakes or people below the cops made mistakes then they're the ones who are responsible for fixing it why not do d.n.a. testing think why not me we're all we're not infallible we can all make mistakes why not check i mean her name is going to be in prison for the rest of her life why not just check you know they can never answer that question so you just end up in court with you know them opposing your motions for d.n.a. testing and unending ability gating instead of working together in rene's case it's

especially frustrating because i mean they certainly believe that this was done not the stabbing was not done by her right so there is a set of the i mean they're basically admitting that they have a cold case and there's a murder out there and they still don't want to do it you know it's did 2 people either 2 people or somebody other than renee committed that crime and that person is out and about and d.n.a. contesting could show who they are but. they're still posing as. am. you know the central park jogger case was my 1st interaction with false confessions

our firm represented corey wise on his civil rights case way to start i mean you're diving right into the bed there you know the circumstances that play in that case were huge amount of pressure on the police and the authorities to make arrests and make. actual traitors step forward. 7 years in prison. was one of the most notorious crimes in the history of new york city it was a crime in which a woman who was a wealthy upper east side investment banker was out jogging at dusk and was

dragged into the woods in central park and almost beaten to death and there was front page news every day everywhere and they are out to get arrests and i got him . when you get to the false confessions in that case it was a classic you know. mismatch they were totally overmatched underrepresented if represented at all i don't know what they could their core even have anyone in the room without his consent is 16 so he was considered an adult sadly and so his mom was not allowed in there and they you know had given them lawyers they all waived their their miranda rights. rights. where you live chris. says.

that if. this is very very serious in this neighborhood we don't know it is there. any. way to use an example we. are seeing there are stages and surely you can see where this point is. it is hard for people to understand how this can. help produce a confession something they didn't too and there really is a complicated set of stories there is no one reason. you know why is

confessed to get out of this bad situation he was under pressure from many many hours he was likely be told that others were giving stories and that to to cooperate or to go home and it is very telling in the central park 5 case that every one of them every one of the boys and every one of the parents who were present were surprised the boys were arrested after their statements every one of them i was going home right well you know what that sounds crazy right here thought you were gone or confess to a rape and go home right but you know that one false confessors were interviewed afterward and they've been exonerated and the 1st question everybody wants those i don't understand why don't you confirm the most typical response because i want to go back in this and people often say after wards you know i was so. tired i was so stressed i figured let me sign this confession it'll all work itself out in the end

the time to soften say you know we have d.n.a. we're going to send it to the last. 3 of these things that claiming they have t.n.a. law is a way to scare the criminal into submission it may be right but if the person you're talking to is not the criminal but an innocent person then the law becomes a promise of future exoneration paradoxically makes it easier to contrast run into a crazy we're going to do some tests we're going to take blood samples from a lot of different people. i just want to know that if we do that we will probably get an order to take a sample from you. and then we'll compare it to tests. or this. area because you're in a position now where you know that there's going to be a match. day even better off tell us about it now or the stairs instead of saying something that's natural part of the story. one of the

things i think they made you say was that you cut her on the legs and where did you how did you come up with that i don't know. came from no i don't know. made it up i don't know i came from i don't know. the trouble with donald trump is that he exploited entirely the counter in lightman legacy he was much more successful than hillary clinton at appealing to people on the level of culture and heart and national identity and all that sort of thing. as with demagogues throughout human history he exploited emotion specially dark emotions like fear and hatred and resentment to serve only his own interests not the interests of the nation at large.

in our top stories for the last 7 days the deputy head of the e.u. admits critical flaws in the blocks of vaccine strategy and it's made worse as a group of european states suspending the use of the astra zeneca job over reports of significant side effects. shut down for brand new covert emergency hospitals billed at a cost of half a $1000000000.00 pounds at the same time was probably going to boils over a mere one percent pay rise offer for those frontline health workers. this is that equates to around 3 weeks and in many hospitals sites across the. uk a car to.