welcome to cross talk for all things considered i'm peter lavelle to the summit in alaska representatives from china and the united states will meet for the 1st time since the advent of the ministration what can beijing expect what will washington demand and the 2 sides agree to disagree will it be a meeting of low expectations. across talking china u.s. relations i'm joined by my guest daniel is our in new york he is a journalist and author of 3 books on the u.s. constitution including we have daniel mcadams he is the executive director of the ron paul institute for peace and prosperity and in north bill we cross to tom watkins he is president and c.e.o. of t.w. associates a global business and educational consulting firm right gentlemen cross-talk rules in effect that means he can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate danny let me go then you make adams let me go to you 1st here i suppose it's a good idea they're meeting in and because i think the way the format has been

displayed to the public and the lack of traditional diplomatic at a kid is going to be a pretty frosty meeting appropriate place your thoughts. yeah and i've heard they're not even going to have dinner together and that doesn't sound like a lot of fun doesn't sound like there's a lot to do there the chinese are upset because they're being forced to take some code test before they even can join the summit so it's not starting off on a good foot weather wise or relations wise ok so daniel is our same question to you here i mean i guess the big question for all of us right now the administration its early days i mean how much different do you expect a biden foreign policy toward china as opposed to the trump policies go ahead i think i think the big surprise was how much continuity there is we haven't troubled by yet that's the that's the big story i mean biden came and promising a chair that he's carrying these of the china ran venezuela and russia as

well and then another what he's being even more aggressive than trump was i mean he's he's taking this these phony charges of genocide and then she engen on just just to banging on them for all they're worth i mean how do we explain that that continuity because i've noticed the same exact thing and it's a very it's a very boisterous position towards china of course what we've heard about the weaker is as being as continued as if it's been proven. it seems like it's this very early summit or meeting is to show a very aggressive stance which you agree with that i think what you're seeing is a continuation. sham what in. certainly not and. are representatives from the united states were in asia this past week meeting with

allies the quad talking about ways that they can join forces and so i think that. was a tip o'neill that said that all politics is local. and one. other things that china has done is what democrats and republicans together regarding standing up and finding ways to assure that china's rise doesn't come at the united states tomorrow ok well daniel mcadams how can that be assured because the is so different now and you of the younger generation won't recognize this is that it this summit it's interesting it's the 1st time the united states since the end of the cold war is really dealing with the pira power and that's something that washington and the foreign policy elites cannot comprehend and they don't what they did they won't accept it and that's the one of the problems that we have in this relationship one of the reasons why it is so tense because the united states simply

won't x. acknowledge that china is appear go ahead. well this is one of the characteristics of u.s. foreign policy regardless of who sits in the oval office and there's this kind of intellectual sclerosis that permeates the entire u.s. foreign policy establishment the u.s. genuinely believes that it's going into this summit from a position of power from a position of being well above china and that way will continue in the future and that's why the entire u.s. agenda from what we've been told by the media is to hector and lecture china on how and how not it's being toward the wiggers and toward the hong kong freedom fighters and climate change and all these sorts of things so the whole idea of the u.s. is to lecture younger brother while the younger brother is no longer a kid brother anymore he's grown up to be a pretty good size and he's not in the mood to be kicked around daniel's are your thoughts on because that's exactly how i feel is that chinese will not be talked down to and they're going to make that very clear i don't know why anthony blinken

feels that he has a position of moral superiority i mean how many wars is china have been been fighting in this state in this century alone i mean they're not going to be lectured about international law they're not going to be that sure about norms and they're certainly not going to be lectured about democracy when democracy in the united states itself is under threat go ahead daniel is our new york well i totally agree and the the the u.s. us of our prosy has been all too apparent the last 10 years the u.s. talks a big game about human rights and then violates them freely. one of thanks no one else is looking at of course the rest of the world is looking and following american flip flops american double standards with great interest. that the chinese and u.s. trajectories have been opposite directions less 5 or 6 years the u.s. has u.s. power has. the process started now under the obama administration can you do under

trump and now it's. that's also under way under biden and that china has done the opposite howard has increased its economic clout its military power its ability to handle crises like a like a cold but 19 etc so the 2 countries are moving in opposite directions and somehow the biden team thinks a lot of lot of tough talk i could make all this go away but it can't well tom that the same question to you i mean tough talk it says talk ok i i i i i you know considering what we've heard from this administration to date i don't think it would move the needle with the chinese whatsoever at all i mean and and having this kind of frosty environment literally and figuratively i don't think really big i mean from what we know from chinese media they would like to seek some kind of reset but what we see from the by the administration is know that you're going to have to get in line i mean that's it that's delusional go ahead tom now you know

look i mean all blacks are lone wolves boxing champ and when you get into the ring anybody has a chance to knock you out. of china certainly has seen miraculous growth over the last 40 years holding back china at this point is like building a chain link fence to hold back the tsunami but what you're seeing i think in these talks is that is there going to be some feeling each other out some body blows and certainly they've been thrown on both sides over the last few weeks and the last few years i think what you're going to see though hong forward is america building its strength with its allies there laying out its national interests china is going to lay out its national interests and we're going to have to find ways to compromise on big national internet national geo political issues such as

climate change what's happening on the korean peninsula nuclear proliferation coded . both on the health care and the economic tsunami that it's time we in america one of the things that's there it's changing and perhaps some only $1900000000.00 has gone now to the american people this is part of an investment strategy which has been desperately needed in america china has been investing in infrastructure in education in a i am the south china sea $2.00 to $5.00 g. it's about time that america begins to invest in itself and we're beginning to see that happen yeah it's a bit so late in the game i would say i don't know if we could turn the corner daniel mcadams and what's interesting is that one of the problems i've had with american foreign policy is that it does it very rarely recognizes other countries have national interest know what we just heard is that the united states is going

to have to do that that would be breaking with tradition and quote unquote norms wouldn't it go ahead daniel. that's true and let's not forget that us foreign policy is to a large degree driven by military spending driven by the pentagon the entire idea that the us is that is an enemy of china that is the result of pentagon spending requirements and those are driven by the military industrial complex which does in fact fund the think tanks that say china is a threat so round and round you go it's a sofa looking ice cream cone you know the idea that we need a surface fleet out in the south china sea to fight a war that will never happen with china is absurd the whole purpose of our foreign policy is to prop up the military industrial complex and also the the push for more power for a larger budgets by the military so this is what drives and so if washington loses its enemies it loses its own internal sort of mechanism for continuing to function

and that's the real problem that's not being discussed. and i'm going to have to jump in go ahead tom yeah i mean i think it's important to point out one of the things that you're seeing in a transition now and i think that it bodes well is that domestic policy is being linked with foreign policy what i was talking about a minute ago is beginning to invest back in the american built better biden's campaign team in installments or what this is something that i think that you're going to see well and policy going forward is a linking of what happens on the global stage impacts what happens to magically and by stars well i would tend to agree with you except for this this 1.9 trillion dollars a lot of it is just for a very temporary amount of time it really doesn't address infrastructure specifically and i know that's the next big package of their interest that they're interested in doing here but you know let me go to daniel is our before we go to

the break here i want to if i could what daniel just said here i mean is this threat to inflation we're seeing when it comes to china because you know i keep hearing you know we have all of these reports coming from the pentagon and think the think tanks you know about china as a military threat how much of it is a military threat to the united states go ahead daniel. oh i think china is very i was a minimal military threat and united states. absolutely i mean i think was daniel before he was saying describing the. domestic and foreign policy i think his conception is just way too rational it's i think that america is a it's a crusaders day yeah what sort of a kind of you know basis foreign policy on a very murky section of morality in which america is always right wherever it may be on the ticket before you go on i'm not hypocritical no we're going to go to

a hard break and after that heartbreak we'll continue into the discussion on u.s. china relations stay with our to. join me everything on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guests of the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then. that's right the sand had to be here from us and. our all all over the long white house. said i'm a smart traveler and our brother democrats are the 44th down together.

only and that compatibility question then you. can keep an. eye and flew to china for all that it is no. longer work then i'm all in hi michelle the downside of. the queen the only a mild. member set up around the hey i'm not doing. good for its whole food place choice i knew you didn't pay i think time in syria says. a. mile farther and then after that i will fuck around with mr hague for jim and then i hope that our family.

welcome back across not for all things are considered i'm peter lavelle trying to be discussing us china relations. ok let's go back to daniel mcadams include. as i was mentioned briefly earlier we had the secretary of state and and we had jake sullivan doing the rounds as it were with the quad as it's called here so daniel let me ask you a hypothetical question so if the chinese and the south koreans get into

a dispute and it's escalating so australia is going to jump in or let me change that china and india have a border dispute so japan is going to jump in i'm sorry i keep hearing this i think it's nonsense go ahead daniel i think it is true but you have that kind of insanity here in washington you had a bill recently introduced that if the chinese take any moves against taiwan the u.s. is going to go to war or if they make any move against u.s. allies as you point out india or korea the u.s. is going to go to nuclear war with china the difference is it's being seriously discussed in washington i think the other capitals you mentioned would laugh off the idea that the u.s. would do something so that they would do something so foolish because their foreign policy as i think the other daniel said you know we have this crusader mentality and the other countries fortunately for them don't have that mentality ok. let's go

to tom tom tom one of the things that we have you know if we can look at the cold war against the soviet union there was very little trade with europe and the soviet union very little american russian trade. but in this case we have we have countries in asia that the united states of and that these some of these countries the ones that have a treaty relationship look to the u.s. for security but those same countries are very heavily invested with trade with china that's where the parallel with the cold war comes to an end because containment of the soviet union. worked it worked ok primarily because of economic reasons but in this case here you cannot contain china this is ridiculous and going back to my 1st question in this block here having a asia nato is also ridiculous here the leverage just isn't there tom go ahead. oh the connection with china and the united states alone some of the other

countries around the world is like a bolt holes to get a new were entangled and multiple ways china homes i believe the trillion dollars worth of our debt our farmers which are seen every barrel some of the greatest trade going on right now with their agricultural midwest year in the heartland of america so certainly that is a major issue and china has used its economic silencer to hold other countries in check don't raise issues about hong kong or the weak yours or taiwan or will cut you off and certainly that is something that's transpiring whether you look at canada around the way and the issue with the united states or with australia today so clearly and it goes back to the earlier comments by the 2 daniels that the clout of china certainly has

a lot more today than was when we form. that's right a number of years ago you know daniel is our if. we have a situation where the country a major country the 2nd or equal to the united states an economic size maybe even bigger depending on your metrics here is a country that can say no but something the washington elite can comprehend they can say no and it's a new mcadams points out you know you're creating all of these trip wires you know go to war over this cold war over that where it where it is that's have nothing to do with the national interest of the united states how do you how do you convince people in iowa what we have to go to war over a dispute with vietnam how do you do that you can't go ahead daniel. well i mean. as the global legal sovereign in other words the ultimate are are. not and that is a that's a position of it attained following the collapse of the soviet union and it's not

one that it will happily relinquish so so essentially that deposition allows the u.s. to dictate policy to china now china of course is the positions to start saying access with a struggle is a struggle is so over who is the top global dog and the u.s. sees itself in that role and that's begins yeah but daniel mcadams those days are over see this is the problem that we have empires rise and fall and a falling empire a fading empire has some choices give up negotiate or go to war. with this mentality that we have here and it's based on exceptionalism they're always going to go for the military option which is a losing option for everyone involved well unfortunately you know as people age as

empires age dementia sets in and i think that's what's happened to the united states it starts to believe things that aren't true and you know some of all of the things that are going to be discussed in this summit with the u.s. lecturing china or issues trying to kranz gresham's the actually the us is the aggressor and this just like with when the u.s. claims that russia is interfering with its elections when the us is the biggest election interferer in the world higher world but if you look at the south china sea where the one running ships through the charts yeah we're the ones running ships were the ones talking about financing the hong kong regime changers where the one screaming about the weaker and in fact samantha power who is biden's nominee to head usa id which is a regime change factory has already reached we did a very dubious report and thanks to the gray zone for pointing out finding the right wing militarist links behind this independent report on the genocide of the week the u.s. is hyping all of these things up and blaming china for them that's no way to

preserve any sense of the of the empire or any sense of international standing and so you know peter i can i mean what are the things that your formula is 50 percent right and the right part is china's rising whether that's economically politically. militarily any way you want to put it china is on iran but to suggest that the united states is on decline i think is just not true in fact i would suggest that the better days are ahead of the united states of america that's not to suggest by any imagination that there are not major major challenges that this administration and future administrations are going to. to address both at home and abroad but i think that you're going to see a reason to the nation an american spirit in the next few years and hopefully it

won't be the chest thumping kind that somehow or another that we can dictate to the world because we cannot do that but the moral leadership of the united states is important and it's something that i think we would be out of use just a megaphone in come dealing with some of the realities that we're going to have to collaborate who operate community and cooperate with the people's republic of china yeah but but tom is what evidence do you have to support that do you think that's going to happen here i mean we've had 3 election cycles in a row where you have public opinion strongly against these military adventures around the world people keep voting against it and they never get it how can you have been a sion if public opinion what people actually say they want it never is put into policy for all of donald trump's faults and they were legendary it least he got

that right he wanted to end these wars because it's a drain on our economy our reputation in the world i mean the it's so easy to call the united states a hypocrite when you talk when they talk about democracy promotion when at the same while on the other hand they're doing illegal regime changes i don't see any we juba nation i think if i go to daniel it's our i mean actually what they need to do with this relationship with china is at least to say the following let's agree to disagree that's a beginning i hope we can get that from this meeting ok i think that's the best we can hope for agree to disagree that's how we start go ahead daniel is our new york . oh i agree with you peter i mean i don't see any signs of us rejuvenating and i think quite the opposite i mean to me joe biden the person he reminds me of is a constantine chernenko who is you may recall was for a period of 13 months the head of the soviet union 45 and he was a man whose physical the crapper to perfectly with reflected the the political to

crapper to that of the soviet union and and joe by the same wife if i could get that thing the other daniel said they know the empires you know enter a stage of dementia on their way down mug joe biden this clearly is suffering from seeing all the magic is he's making wild charges that the u.s. these charges are increasingly divorced from from reality i mean that the wig or the whole wig or uproar it just has no basis in reality at all and i don't want to say that you don't consider all the time and i'm suggesting comment that it's not based in reality is that we're beginning to see. for the 1st time in a long time investment back in the american people i agree with you peter i don't want to see a lot of. around the world a minute terry of conflicts those are dollars that can and should be invested.

but they have money and. will continue to prosper and we don't want to see what happened but see tom what i would do if you were with him on this issue is that the government distinct ring on the margins it's going to have to be business american businesses and financial institutions that have to start thinking about the the quality of life of the citizens of the united states because there's no there's no way of the way the by doing ministration is moving forward they're not going to appeal to lies companies for exporting their jobs that's the problem here we have a business elite but doesn't care who about the condition of the country and its future and i think that's the problem that's running them along but $1.00 trillion dollars is a 1000000000 and i think it is. a lot of money to begin the investment. said one time in the chinese history the longest journey begins with

a person now we're beginning to see that 1st here in america we have a long way to go ok but i hope i tell him how i hope we're not bankrupted by our in the $1.00 trillion dollars our debt to the our you know the debt you know that's something we have to consider too hard gentlemen we've run out of time here a fascinating discussion i want to thank my guests in new york no it's bill and luke and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r t see you next time and remember rostock rules. debate is is it fair for transforming our plates to compete and women scout of course and sports. as a society we have decided to categorize sports based on sex i definitely need to do

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