join me every thursday on the alec simon show and i'll be speaking to guest on the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. i imagine origen's in you're watching a special edition of going underground focusing on democracy in europe as in the u.k. boris johnson indicate he'll veto a referendum on scottish independence that would break up the united kingdom the e.u. has arguably been threatening democracy itself after

a german prison the man much you gotta learn here in spain regards as its president as it is immunity from prosecution for calling a referendum on independence revokes called wisdom or joins me now from brussels thanks so much president for coming on on the show the politicization of life and death here in britain is more about the corona virus vaccine and how the e.u. is politicized that for you personally it is the politicization of democracy by the e.u. arguably that is a life or death matter that just tell me what their removal of your immunity from prosecution means well thank you very much for inviting me right clear a threat against one of the bases of the european democracy. which consists in finding fundamental right human values that are up and when a member of european parliament. is politically prosecuted and the parliament found to defend his immunity well that is

a very bad time to share with the rest of the world and that is not in the frame of the law. and order minus fact moral authority. to be in union to teach others regions in the world. to protect human rights then blundell used in front of such or the congress a question made by an interesting. just very briefly take us through it because the spanish prosecutors want you to answer for the calling of a referendum on cattle and independence and then to belgium court decisions said the spanish courts didn't have the right to. take you to spain for trial is is that right well what 1st of all was that decision made by the german corps in this letter none that they said really they would be they refused to

extradite me to spain as a guilty of 3000000 or sedition and and now the 3rd attempt by the spanish authorities announced in front of the bottom court but one colleague of us was leaving home. to former qatar minister of culture. in that case the belgian corps be cycle regimes also extradition best moderate reasons. because there is a height release x.-plane violate. his right presumption of innocence so it's probably could be the same as a vision in our case once belgium court. restart the person you are our extradition us minus burning your heart. i mean i'll get my jewel case in a 2nd but to be clear what the e.u.

has done means that for anyone in the e.u. if they are wanted by a nation state in the european union and the regional court says you will get a fair trial the e.u. will say no you still have to be extradited is that the result of this e.u. decision are they actually practical terms there nothing has changed i continue to be a member of your parliament. participating in hands as in me be. but not naturally there is now civility to be extra right misspend. which for sure i will have not a fair trial so that is something shameful for european institutions to have a clear proof that is a political persecution. made by a member state and to cooperate and to be accomplice of that could be a part of the persecution allowing the state to park prevent my mandate

as elected by more than 1000000 people to represent the same idea as the pain and using poor persecuting us so it's something new for me at very disappointing but there is not the last step of our high. i will continue billy corgan court of justice in luxembourg can you even imagine that if something like this happened in britain the nicholas sturgeon would be on the run and threatened with jail extradition to britain of course it's different because of breck's it which complicates a bit i mean that that could theoretically happen to any you know hundreds leader and it happened to them mislead is no absolutely not isn't believable not only in the case of the scottish scottish friend and your individual cry of honduras or individual quebec canada are they done unilateral referendum twice.

and haven't no one was sent to criminals who are getting prison like in spain from 9 to 13 years in jail or calling a friend that isn't believable. for that for my part of that is more simply want to use the behavior of european institutions in front of that editor or not but violation of human power like that is very disappointing i expect that. prospect in reaction around the line of authoritarian reaction but. my heart i feel you are all we know will say send a clear message. not in that way you must to show what you call conflicts you want to prove prattles other spanish reaction is is nuanced now pedre sanchez

is in power and on on to that but some people with longer historical memory might disagree and say this is europe as usual because as you know and maybe you can tell me i mean but catalonia means george orwell to people in britain and arguably world war 2 was created by european powers not paying attention to catalonia joe writes. in the other hand i am very happy to be a member of european because thanks to repeal a rule of law here meaning as a free european citizen protected by different people and acting as a member of her grandpa and what wasn't possible to do if i. remain it in a spain because i was jailed. for. but for a while you were in jail in schleswig. what did it personally feel like to be

a president in exile in a german prison well i was not the 1st time when the german police arrested the current president because one of my predecessors who was arrested right in 40 friends when he left along after the fall of arcelor because. he was arrested by german police who were central government who he was executive but fortunately protected and i changed and after 12 2 days in a prison they decide to release me because the charge that spain has presented are not acceptable you know western democracy work what kind of crime is sin ition or 1000000000 so i was very comforted we have an hour of good religion russian in my case because germany probably germany is against government should

never been but at the time and germany is a democracy so. far mean and form was already a thing of german people our it was in believable to acceptable edition in a german prison secluded and supra primus hillary 1000000 or solution that means that sound from our 19th century. your father says about it given your father and his dad was a spanish republican on the side of. the communists and of guests there were in that cauldron that were the start of world war 2 now i am my father dies in. one year ago my father was a young young guy when. she were struck my grandfather my grandfather was an example to after the pole

a car you know and he was interned in the. regime come trans and he finally disappear in poor peace of invasion of nazis in the french treaties own i well i can tell you there is a. history. of fight fishies. and there is a on experience very interesting experience to fight. against all kind of her she's moved and all cut on families which are out of these experiences. memories or. fighting promise i'll from inside having troubles because there are so it's not it's not the 1st guy generation who needs to go examine or reason but our hope is to be the last one. except of

course back in the thirty's we had george orwell we had brilliant writers hemingway writing about what was going on do they live on going there and giving us a live under leno's the mainstream media won't be covering what happens to go toward joints and and that she she has heard of because i was going to go after the mayan nazario very well history of europe. i think because she's an. only peace but obviously european institutions are in the hands of the big states in their interests are at states obviously georgia are all experiencing get along or soon the mental in order to understand all. the right after he's experiencing government not only of heights took a toll on you but also. i'm not sure injured or. in and for understand exactly what

to do europe you need to read or all and it's impossible to understand or without to know exactly what happened in catalonia the mission we want to share with the rest be appearance we'll catalans we are going to europe and our. crises european crises because you're going to mock us. well examine it it whole you know wait what. europe will matter right i don't want to sound like vox the fascist neo fascist party that sent to the catalan parliament but don't you think that there's more to it than just independence after the 2008 economic crisis as the chinese call it the western european crisis what your party represents what a left wing independent catalonia represents. is a threat to you near liberalism that's why you must pay the price

while early could be processed because it is some ways around missionary process but on. where we land in the hands of the people who are going today the classical democracies. but in the other hand for our primary priority point of view that who will enforce european democracy because we believe in the fundamentals of the predation of european union after the 2nd to the 2nd world war are based on peace dialogue box receive respect for. diversity and respect for several identities interact and that is exactly the contribution the congress or independent exactly based in the hair. i can understand why some of the expressions of my brow democracy feel

threatened by. such. kind of a revolution but unfortunately that is the core of them that is the sign of our time when there are always action a division revolution. more empowered thanks to knowledge thanks to access to information it's time to change the way that our managed democracy that for which the revolution real real cruel significant a huge change in the way we what kind of state managed our and now isn't it dears a new attitude. just citizens. more power we have tools like these with a lot of our in our pockets so broadly some traditional

states feels threatened by that new and powerful process. some of that could be heard in the words of petra sanchez when he was seeking election in madrid coverage of our stop you there more from the gotland president in exile after this short break. that's geysers line it looks like they say made the girl. closer to the zip this is a central perk support dying a common problem right now so you start to. welcome

back i'm still here with a 138th president of the government of god alone you're called was double why do you think could a more spears and changing their view of catalan independence i mean these are not just you is it other people are paying the price tell me about henri all you care us who care us where where is he right now of course right here he always in jail was he was condemned stooping nearly 13 years in jail for organizing my government referendum but i don't understand your question when we must be i want to be clear it is. the new spanish government the coalition government socialist barking and the most party. change each book will aren't now that strong nothing to do with the language of the corollary used

by dirt farmers prime minister. parking money in our. but that's all nothing has changed people remain in jail in the remaining so i am generally pretty quick there is really getting i.d.'s coalition. that the coalition and the coalition now spanking me yeah in terms of the ideals you speak of as as you said because sanchez seemed to say much warmer to you than previous balash politicians under the right it seems your you use exactly word seems but it is not. because of. a change yes and they ask about dialogue but in a very rhetorical way it's not a case where most i also wouldn't want to stress the race for them or seize clearly

committed to political solution and to allow the possibility to call for our. router and all our non-binding consultation about. that it's clear but unfortunately the vice president especially by president and leader of the mosque as resign 3 years ago he theys ago so we loose one of the most powerful writers in the spanish cabinet 5 or a political solution and the rest of the member of the cabinet. nearly socialist party are clearly against not only. brushes of southern nation but even. a kind of amnesty and are shot at conflicts so it seems it's not. the amnesty bill doesn't look like succeeding this week when it's not just the infamously

institutional socialist party in sway it's also the progressive voices no one can say that the mayor of the learned it allowed is not progressive why do you think you don't get much of. ward as much support as you might from a gallon by us alone i have you look at the feeders of the latest town elections in barcelona you can see close parking. several the feet. of bigotry in brazil so that my arsenal is not really supported by a majority so he's vice and her voice doesn't explain the feel of the majority of the people of barcelona probably. he's more and he. most worried about. of his fortune all with your future don't. count on project of the barcelona project. i'm sorry. yeah yeah i mean she says

she's doing well but of course there is and i think she was asked about whether there were parallels with the season she said there weren't but but what do you make of the rise of vox in catalonia you might have to rebel our viewers around the world who they are this this is this looks like a frightening development to those on the progressive left surely well a fact the far right we're what we're always present in the current politics represented by the spanish policy our it's our prosperity. our in catalonia close to the strand right zeeshan song is the rule is another new phenomenon what is a part of yes but there is a part of the times of psyche. minority minority are who will. share the symbol use vox and walk

express. clearer than the others that a yes but if you look at the time parliament you can see the far right. these representing. the union east ideologies of union east positioned but no one far right remember a couple and i remember handing the independent the power is very important it was the far right are a canonical idea used always defending the unity of spain. and pride and. elected members are always in the privacy site lot of cattlemen parliament top marks has collected that 100 angry mark on process. peace very strong nationalists. people and indeed i am.

some kind of not only from the frank was there are frag of course supported by britain all through those ears i have to ask you this question seriously because allegations are made against you that you have been working with julian assange who according to the un is being tortured here in london and would snowden who has asylum in moscow for availing secrets of the us secret state and the russian army i don't know about russian soldiers being brought in to create an independent catalonia what did you make of those allegations made by any you judge i had. something you said is a joke but in the span you're really you would say that yazid. for meat and renewable and jascha believes trust in that kind of fantasy

obviously we. actually agree julian assange which absolutely snowden and they fight for freedom and i personally has moved a publicly demanding the release of international munch i could scream here. at what. about that kind of connection sure release the connections. well that these are nora people frank knew that song political parties were people hours. mailing spangle not on a spending try to put on the agenda in order to be security to attack our. repudiation our credibility so if they can't find you. in the field i did x.

may try to use that dark tool called nero's how you are trying the russians on who are friend of that cream outre well if you look into the past there is nothing nothing some fantasy in order to attack our probation we were spared spain is famous for serial or starve and culture of course but i mean it affects this this channel you're on now my my effective boss margarita simonyan name by the judge i understand that you are working with her and thousands of troops were being prepared from russia to help you carry this debate. there is not one single fact losing your group there your single in danger of that and in haiti will usually edge $1000000.00 was yeah now if you are if your. thing on this do you think i will be.

you know so it's something surrealistic. and i'm very far at 1st when i say days my smiling well i know for a joke it is about and then i realized it was a construction of the fake reality in order to undermine our credibility is that the firmware i mean just from just from new york in the year of the judge or from other forces in. the state mistakenly spain and the deeper state the spanish state the same as the franc were in the same ground the team on the spanish king was in power right franco there was no one single referendum in spain about it of people prefer a minor she or a republic and a jack most of them are part of the far far right party box in the media sponge me

here are the same the sense of right so it's quite normal. to have the state who are using. if you are against these events it's not new unfortunately we we know that what worked what was happening in the case of the basque country. for the kates are kate and you and are and now we are doing the same catalonia constructional cases against a leader of politically very busy bench or even lawyers my lawyer my lawyer is big name or a loafer process. believe all but he's a victim and he's in there. and your trial. link of by. dr who came catalans it around something absolutely incredible name not only

a josh it's a part of the published article just these are some of the critique of our part of the movie yet at spanish people state europe would say it is a cradle of democracy although of course i know you support the a lot of people supporting breck's it here and in other nations would say the deep state has a hand in preventing a withdrawal from the european union what advice would you give now to your colleagues tony common glare upon society who are facing prison as well what we are on the same team were hiking together. they are breaking. are some people. right now and well just to be clear someone could i'm not sure there's no interpol notice as far as i know but someone could break down your door tomorrow and haul you back to spend one hour no outlet and i mean remains as

a member of european parliament. and the remains here you have no immunity from prosecution yes but we haven't immunity for reelected members or empowerment but we fight. for our freedom. for us nothing has changed. we can be arrested if we. go to another european country we will continue. i think we need to go to our my senior grand parliament be announcing my emotional commitment to rights as a matter of peace train or the whole european union and don't. last in jail we will fight against that. and you're prepared for a 13 year sentence and has managed jail if there is no alternative there is no

option in my life. well until i right even right we will fight very hard and our once we are no where of europe former president thank you and that's it for the show will be back on monday to speak to a lawyer defending the rights of native americans from the survival of climate change threaten humanity and we go to yemen this british weapon sales continue to worsen the world's worst humanitarian crisis see them. join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then.

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