the empires kind of coming to a halt unless we focus inward and look at infrastructure so you have these corporate entities that own the media the only information. and i find it stunning when i see them criticize other nations about propaganda when actually we need to look inward and clean our own house. and i should use for now cross talks up next after which i'll have your latest outings in less than 30 minutes. join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guests of the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then.

hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle take your pick the great reset or build back better both sound but what do they mean is neoliberalism mutating reset for whom better for whom you don't people have any say in any of this. to discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guest when he's an in-house so he

is a professor at the university of southeastern norway as well as author of the new book great power politics in the 4th industrial revolution and in budapest we crossed in georgia said you well he was a pot caster i think well which can be found on you tube and rumple originally crossed up rules in effect that music can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok glenn let me go to you in oslo build back better at the how the great reset as i said in my introduction these sound very nice they don't sound threatening here but the more you kind of dig into it and the way it's being applied in some ways you could make the argument that neo liberalism is it is mutating because it's the form that is existed when say before the election of trump before break break said was suffering illegitimacy and they're trying to. you know put new wine in old bottles something like that. but the biggest problem for me is that when i look at the all the things that they're going to apply and to

there's that singular thing that's missing democracy is that anybody going to vote for any of this because it's professional manager real class they think they know everything they think they know the parents for in the last 60 years they've created only chaos and wealth for themselves my opinion go ahead mine well you're going to build better and great present that they are not the same talk concept but they are now some big overlaps obviously and because they're ill defined and we don't really having much of the right of debates around them gently ill defined it is very easy for build back better to incorporate the great reset. the great reset all this it is or did because are difficult to discuss the topic as well because the greater you say attract a lot of attention is for good reason because it is based on a meeting at the world economic forum you know political and business elite so

again it's not being debated and voted on i think they're late and they're discussing the need now to create a very different world after 19 so again looking a little bit of the consequent building back better. than once the political economic lift decides to create a new world it doesn't deserve attention but it also creates an immense i'll suggest she had all kinds of a conspiracy theories that is there for the court to differentiate which is why i also want to be very careful with my horse for example the great reset is based on that day and i mean it can be used as an opportunity to create a world which was not sustainable before and therefore make it sustainable now this is a very sure she is your body so of course not the same a state thing and then it was a hoax you know created by elites so it's important to not get because this is just because it is happening a lot of democratic. it does open our for a lot of other impulses but again it doesn't come from

a reasonable point under the economy as i mentioned it is moving into an era area where there will be less public control or so the great reset is based on this technology so the 4th industrial revolution just would promote my book while i'm at it so i recently read power politics on the 4th industrial revolution and the whole idea is that the 4th industrial revolution is a technological era we're entering more technologies emerge with the physical world and also many political wrong you know we're automating the cognitive with robotics . very simply put the digital companies that organize your search engines emails and social media will also now build their cars yourself driving cars transformers transportation producer products reorganize the financial industry grow your food and all revolutionize agriculture operate the restaurants deliver your food restructure cities transform pharmaceuticals medical industry build armies of the future so i think a little bit thinking or over very much every aspect of society knowing that it's

and something that sounds like you don't need people george clooney to be going to you you and i have similar backgrounds and studied the same things go over the decades theory they had scientific socialism ok because it was scientific that made socialism sound like it was viable ok but now we're having this as scientific modernism which you know present saying kind of rain to me here meaning it is solving all problems at the same time this is a revolutionary idea i would say and be at the same time a very authoritarian one because it is there is no public input because these elites they know what's best for us they think they really do george you know what they have done to so western society for the last 60 years go ahead it's well that's a very interesting parallel that you. wrong between the scientific socialism of the

months isn't leninism and the great reset because whatever else you can say about scientific socialism and how it manifested itself and in stalinist wealth or a tear in ism there wasn't least a utopian goal that mankind was supposed to be pursuing in which you know what would become tied to water happiness and all the great conflicts with come to an end the great reset has no humanitarian end to it i mean it has glenn was describing it it's. let let's just brink take humans out of the equation altogether it will be kind of created by robotics an artificial intelligence and governance telling people what to do and that's why this this vision that underlies the great reset is one that is very anti humane and is unlikely to generate any

great popular in suzi as some but there's no question that the bigotry of biden in the u.s. election has been a massive shot in the arm for all of the doublespeak a because they are very concerned about the dissolution of the globalist model suddenly which trump national sovereignty was coming back i mean they had a lot of problems already with russia. and china basically pursue their own national agenda biden is explicitly say no no you know we need to pursue this a globalist agenda and i think that's a big shot in the for the davos proof but ultimately it still says he how do you generate any kind of popular support for a movement that is so anti-human. in clay and the same time here he made me never let a crisis go. ways the mean this is a way you kind of solve the new deal with

a new green deal ok because this is the way the messaging mechanism ok it's the the agenda is out there we've already discussed it you can't find it very clearly but then they take up all the way in the green new deal and this is how they're going to push it through because he's glow hall it has good intentions and it is creating a vision of the future that again that sounds very nice here but in a group of course you know what and what are the costs and what if you disagree scene that's the fundamental question then dealing with build back better and the reset is what if you disagree because it seems to me. milton inherently is not to allow dissents go ahead. yes it will again a lot of these discussions were held before the coded crisis and because the 4th industrial revolution it is already here it is a mistake knowledge is a rolling out at a very rapid speed so the question was you know we have to adjust to this our going to justin and disallowed of social economic and political issues related to this

and once a covert hit. that's why the letter degrades reset again there is that whole i did you know once we rebuild everything how to merge to do concept our great reset and . better but again i would also do did this concern about authoritarianism now this is very reasonable and i would also point out that it's not necessarily an ideological argument again one of the 1st industrial revolution is when you know we started some different ideologies of liberalism called a nuisance. but i would point out that even among the free market capitalist like they were their cargo you know they did recognize that with increased productivity or machinery there would be not the same equal relationship between labor and something more efficient or automated today our industries are the more power shift from labor towards capital and again this was also gargan from the from the from

the communists or effect on the karl marx arguing capitalism is will destroy themselves because of the inability to cope with technological advances so capital increase increase our expense our labor now as oh it is recognized you know both on the free marketeers. it's really come to some to have this on difficult relationship now and if you see what the last few years how much power to take companies out. they are the main companies now and this will only intensify as they begin to take over industries the belong to the physical world and so again well how old how will society based we restructured i can be phrase which. he said in a few sentences and my own attitude to it be george here this is about i meet control i mean this is about maintaining complete control this is what it's all about ok again and they can flowered up all they want with their utopian language but no they want you know they have done it they've done well through this crisis

and they want to keep it that way and they don't want to give back their gains ok and they're even there against they can say they can legitimized by saying so we're we're right see how prosperous we've become now when they profited when the state the program gave them large jess to not only survive this crisis but to to enrich themselves even more and expand their power head george. yes yes and i think that this is a point made by. putin at the recent double summit that we already have had tendencies before the onset of it massive inequality the vast majority of the publics in the west and the rich advanced industrialized well the vast majority will gainey receiving no benefits at all from capitalism but this as the intensified by cove it in which has been great impulse.

from the middle tosses the great masses and fantastic accumulation of wealth on the part of big it's a big data is of the giant book graciousness so without me out at the end of this bit with vos there is a middle class just simply having been wiped out and you know the the big take the big you know the giant corporations were already had massive file the full on now even more powerful and you know as we have seen. particularly during the day use us election they intend to use it in a very tough isn't way. this is indeed a very serious problem yeah but george you know to finish up with you here i mean again what if you say no i don't want to be part of this here ok and what happens if it's not something you can vote on ok i mean they did that you know it's kind of like you know a global executive order ok well like by an authority that may not be deemed

legitimate ok when i'm looking at a global scale right here this is going to consul lot of resentment in resistance and and the reaction to divakar seems as it is a is a sign of what is to come because the states are saying this is good for you it may be good for you ok but individuals have to make those decisions themselves and during this the great reset and build back better i don't. see the individuals concerned here ok all i'm going to finish on this point here gentlemen we're going to short break and after a short break continue our discussion on the great reset state.

the day. we dare to ask.

lead. well about the crossed up work all things are considered peter lavelle to man who are discussing some real names.

ok let's go back to glenn here but one of the things that many of the things i've noticed in looking at the idea of the great recession build back better is that we lose a number of things or these ideas are against think now the following they really have no use for the nation state they have no use for borders they have no use for the family they have no use for gender and even redefining what identity is ok these half the country at least in the united states would have no clue what you're talking about but the elites are telling you these are good things to get rid of that's going to be a hard sell it will be a hard sell in europe to go ahead. and i guess that's why it's important well the problem with this whole thing is technology. well the political if the kind of running with it without this is a live debate because. we want to keep in mind what neoliberal economics is it is largely in the past we've always had

a capitalism which tries to balance market efficiency with social responsibility is obviously the political left the finest social responsibility you know redistributing wealth while the political rights define. protecting. you know communities to family and cherish so in other words both and everyone else always recognize you concretely have market forces dictating everything in life about stars or how is market apartment is made such that the market should dictate everything else and this is quite interesting. if we go into this 4th industrial revolution with neoliberal economics because us george their act. counted out things haven't been going well for everyone or the last few years and it's a reason why is that there's a need to appreciate why is hasn't been but also if you see the rhetoric now for some from the by the administration saying you know trying to some as a problem to overcome and move further if forgets what actually happened i mean even at the beginning of our digital isolation out of the americas there are

structured economy tours taking over take leadership in the world now what that meant was day they were able to extend their intellectual property rights and of course meant and in return opened up traditional industrial production for competition so what happened in america well part of the finance and i think a variation everyone belongs to try to traditional industry got it they lost their jobs they lost their social fabric everything collapsed and that's largely why they voted for trump now what we're saying with this 4th industrial revolution is how do we you know solve the problems of the possible district only you know boasting with it was with steroids we don't actually have to listen to those who are disenfranchised by the previous economic model because now we're largely we're automating the community we are headed there we don't really need them in a more serious just okaloosa we don't actually need these people they're not good for anything very easily that can lean towards politics which is not very

sympathetic there so i cannot make incentive anymore to care about this it will so obviously this is why most people should be a little bit concerned about where society is moving you know you know george we can think back to like the new deal and the great society johnson's great society these were these this was state driven but it is this new this new phenomenon that we're talking about on this program here is the state is part of it it's more of a vehicle for the ideas of many others that have never been elected and whose ideas you know again half the country if we speak specifically be of the united states would be ideas that are completely alien and. more than that to them and again if when you're controlling all these you know we've given them the media hollywood education we go down all of them when they're all in one corner people feel defenseless i mean you know the we there is the f.b.i. you are looking for trouble supporters revolving january sakes you know if we

united center our and our podcast the gavel these are like that the least privileged people in the country right now and they're treated as a threat ok the need these kind of people the people that voted for donald trump will never accept these i.d.'s ok again there's been no autopsy why trump was elected in the 1st place in 2016 england has said so much about that even on this program going george yet but one very interesting aspect of it is that if we look back on the during the days of the new deal and then post $945.00 kind of keynesianism that became the dominant. idiology there was a real concern about the alternative economic model. that was the soviet union the soviet union whatever its problems it provided an alternative model to capitalism and that for all the elites within the social democracies and

those that they sent in the united states were very concerned about it and wanted to do whatever they could to keep that public happy was something of a soap may be happening today because there is an alternative i think russia and china are explicitly and now presenting themselves to the well as the champions on national some granite. 1 and anti liberalism they are explicitly attacking the liberal ideology that's predominant in the west and that is really very strongly manifest in the bike ministrations will view and so then they will. the some kind of a. little confrontation that could happen within the next year or so between the united states nato and russia you know not too dissimilar from the india logical confrontation of the cold war so that capitalism is socialism and off it's more about you know liberalism. and actually liberalism

a national sovereignty on the other side a claim like that such as sense so interesting when george patton say they're not done about it in milk way i mean it may be china and russia are are actively showing that there are alternatives now i mean because you know we've discussed on this program how even russia and liberals are beginning to say i think they're going to bark in the west area that's going way too barbara i mean is that we can see some kind of bifurcation near i mean people that were willing to say we reject this year and there's an alternative model in some ways that places like russia and china do things differently. i think it would be a hard sell but again if you have societies in the west you're so deeply divided even it's inevitable something like that's going to her. well it could be. the home of the liberal system like liberalism in america component i would necessarily agree that both russia and china will be on time the pricing for other

more critical of the liberal m.p.'s on the other horse. meat i think you know critical neo liberals not now not now because you can liberal tradition in russia there's a conservative tradition in russia i'm talking about what is but what is basically how volunteers have more over the last 60 years in the west that has been talking about get over well that's why our last go for us because the and i clearly this was important to see how the individual on saturday but it's up to copy the only idea aside to structures around other collecting situations which has to be reproduced so i think that that's often they go against. this idea that liberalism can be this old this liberal idea that this is all concepts or ideology can organize a site around it is 11 component of the cool but it's not everything and and i think that the reasons why other countries can be looks horse russia and china i mean we already see some tensions from this in europe for example in eastern europe

there are many countries who are grown a bit wary of both the excess the so political and economic liberalism can look to countries like hungary poland. they're actually not now in the past had a look so the east a little bit towards you know the calmest ideology but the whole idea was if you want to be prosperous in the world you have to you have to have. to have economic liberalism and then the old south arrest political liberalism going to china stuff the whole in this day the show you actually don't have to do it and so there's a lot of it again using hungary psyche example they're obviously pointing now today east i think i think they are on my it very explicit statement or is that the liberal model of the west will not be competitive if you're sure we have to orient ourselves more towards the model of russia more towards china more tor singh or and who is down more in the east so rejecting this excess of liberalism the way this is so i think i do agree that. the rice own china russia and others in the east

of us trade turn it to models for want a list the west has been pushing the past 40 years. so again i think you do see this split already the west's gambit you george that the splits that we see when we think about the you know that this rhetoric and going back to january 6th going to the attack on our democracy but you know that they're not our doesn't mean all of us it means my democracy not yours ok and this is the only way they're going to be able to sell these ideas because you'll do you'll disenfranchise them because you don't have a right to participate because. you're not worthy of been bracing these ideas we already have this in the in the in the public realm it's already out there in the public sphere go ahead george know and i think that what really 2 going on now in united states with a bite of this ration the particularly the justice department of the bite of the structure is kind of declaring war on hoffa of the public and i think the russians

are picking up on this because they kind of remember it from their own history you know what happens when the ruling elite as war against its own public and says you know in liked and enough you're not good enough for us at best book we will be chewing to submission and then maybe even when you come around and see how you are we are in the next. hour of the yes he said and i think that's got to you know what this is the alternative model that russia is say going to russia like the humans and that nations matter individuals and that it you can just simply say oh well let we'll let in 1000000 refugees a year and that and then to hell with what our own people think about it because it just join in on the like that too racist or whatever you could you can do that oh it doesn't matter you know learn to code you know what is so what does it matter you know you can treat people in that way and i think that's why i mean russia in particular will be on the attractive model because it will it will create

a remind countries onery but it's also others like czech republic poland and are they going to they have to sort of and you russian and was that done for me that is the way that it's like well the countries were like 5060 years ago oh ok looks like your go go ahead. yeah i could add something i want out of your to see this change use taking place keep in mind that european union are also its ideology for you know the. 23 years has been. essentially as a globalist institution is moving towards a national utopia. and utopia. this is all about are you saying you're going yeah you're getting into topics that are separate issues very separate programs a lot of time i want to thank my guests and. i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. and make some remember.

humanity has never seen such strange natural phenomena before coming to this appearing in the peninsula. one after another. one. of us must take your cue for you know whom does. he want. this one appeared in 2020. how often and where will new creases appear. how dangerous are they for human the slum only and is due to the 102021 russian scientists came quite close to working out what's going on. they built a full scale 3 d. model of the.

president meets russian vaccine developers to discuss the production and hails the proven safety of domestically produced jobs. none of the 4 an equivalence of the same level of protection once again this is a resounding success with the mystic songs and it's been recognised approach is the geographical adoption of the speed the vaccine is actively growing. between the hungary and foreign minister condemns the eve use handling of its inoculation program and urges the european regulators to approve russia. meantime the e.u. upped the ante in its vaccine supply feud with the u.k. saying it could start blocking cross-channel shipments are. also in the headlines.